Star Wars Mafia

[slats]

So, doggin has an unkown ability that is unleashed after some night action which he thinks will occur tonight.

Jvor is a 1 time day time finder role that only works for players at L-1

And you have some ability that is enough like both of them that you feel you confident in vouching for them?

wheres pacturd with ninjarat gifs when I need him.. That useless idiot

I was suspicious of Doggin early. I made a comment, maybe a couple times, that he made a simple post that made me believe he was probably town. So I left that breadcrumb out there, too, if you will. The post I was talking about is the one you apparently found where he said something to the effect of, "I wouldn't put it past Bleedin' to make up roles for this game."

Having to spell it out for someone I know isn't this dense is disconcerting - but I also have a role that I've never seen in any game, or read about in any wiki.

[AVM]

Everyone was roled in TV Land as well. "No non-specials" games (as they're called over on mafiascum.net) aren't uncommon

Allow me to play devil's advocate, then (and keep in mind DPR is suspicious to me). IF everyone is roled, AND DPR is town -- he, obviously, is a roled-townie. IF he is an important role, he could be wary of scum trying to pull one over on him, and get him killed with an important role for the town.

[Vicious89x]

Vic, I like this better than the grandstanding. Bottom line, JVoR is free to investigate whoever he wants, including me or you.

He thinks DPR - the guy who is fighting investigation and who won't trade himself for two scum, is the best target. Not surprisingly, I agree with him. I'm not sure how anyone could not agree with him, given how Wes is acting.

It is odd, 100%. But you have to understand, it's odd TO ME that someone who has vehemently defended you so far is now saying he refuses to look into you. Like CTM is saying, ALL of this stinks to me.

[CTM]

I was suspicious of Doggin early. I made a comment, maybe a couple times, that he made a simple post that made me believe he was probably town. So I left that breadcrumb out there, too, if you will. The post I was talking about is the one you apparently found where he said something to the effect of, "I wouldn't put it past Bleedin' to make up roles for this game."

Having to spell it out for someone I know isn't this dense is disconcerting - but I also have a role that I've never seen in any game, or read about in any wiki.

so why couldn't bleedin have made scum roles we've never seen before?

what about "new roles" = innocent to you???

and agreed on the, isn't this dense diconcerting bit now..

[Doggin94it]

Allow me to play devil's advocate, then (and keep in mind DPR is suspicious to me). IF everyone is roled, AND DPR is town -- he, obviously, is a roled-townie. IF he is an important role, he could be wary of scum trying to pull one over on him, and get him killed with an important role for the town.

Possible - but there is literally no town role not worth trading for two scum in a 16 player game. Finder? If the finder nets you two scum before dying, you're ahead of the game. Doc? Doc gets you two scum, finder gets you one and then is killed, you're 3/4 of the way home.

Those are the only two roles in mafia I wouldn't trade 1 for 1 with the town.

I know Bleedin made up new roles. But I doubt he made up one so super-central to the town that a 2 for 1 trade with scum would be in scum's favor.

[AVM]

Possible - but there is literally no town role not worth trading for two scum in a 16 player game. Finder? If the finder nets you two scum before dying, you're ahead of the game. Doc? Doc gets you two scum, finder gets you one and then is killed, you're 3/4 of the way home.

Those are the only two roles in mafia I wouldn't trade 1 for 1 with the town.

I know Bleedin made up new roles. But I doubt he made up one so super-central to the town that a 2 for 1 trade with scum would be in scum's favor.

Ok, that's a good enough point. Still, I can to a degree understand why he'd be so wary.

I'm off to the game, I'll bbl.

[Doggin94it]

It is odd, 100%. But you have to understand, it's odd TO ME that someone who has vehemently defended you so far is now saying he refuses to look into you. Like CTM is saying, ALL of this stinks to me.

JVoR can speak for himself, but it makes sense to me. He is going to allow himself to be lynched to prove his viewing. If he's kamikaze-ing, he wants to do it for a player he thinks is scum, not for a townie likely to get NK'd as soon as he confirms their innocence (though he really shouldn't worry about that with me )

[slats]

Actually, I DO see them as scummy. But I also see doggin's actions as scummy. It's you and JVoR who are pushing this idea hard and JVoR is outright refusing the possibility of investigating doggin. That's what is making me leery about it.

Doggin did volunteer, but it's easy to do it when the person doing the investigating is publicly saying they wont' investigate you.

If JVoR investigates DPR, I guarantee you that DPR will come back and say that JVoR's a symp, or scum that doesn't come up guilty at death, etc. I really just don't think it nets us anything.

If we go thru this whole thing, and you still want to go after Doggin, that's still going to be available.

Hell, Doggin and DPR could be playing me right now! I don't for certain. I just definitely see investigating DPR as netting the most useful results.

I don't know how any townie can't see the logic of this:

He thinks DPR - the guy who is fighting investigation and who won't trade himself for two scum, is the best target. Not surprisingly, I agree with him. I'm not sure how anyone could not agree with him, given how Wes is acting.

[Vicious89x]

Possible - but there is literally no town role not worth trading for two scum in a 16 player game. Finder? If the finder nets you two scum before dying, you're ahead of the game. Doc? Doc gets you two scum, finder gets you one and then is killed, you're 3/4 of the way home.

Those are the only two roles in mafia I wouldn't trade 1 for 1 with the town.

I know Bleedin made up new roles. But I doubt he made up one so super-central to the town that a 2 for 1 trade with scum would be in scum's favor.

What if it's something as simple at he's a miller?

[slats]

so why couldn't bleedin have made scum roles we've never seen before?

what about "new roles" = innocent to you???

and agreed on the, isn't this dense diconcerting bit now..

Even if that's the case -and I believe it to be unlikely- we're still in a position to swap multiple scum for one townie if DPR flips innocent.

That's not worth it?

[Doggin94it]

What if it's something as simple at he's a miller?

Then he would have just said so, and avoided having JVoR lynch himself to prove the guilty verdict.

Also, I really doubt Wes is a miller.

[Doggin94it]

OK, heading to the train now. See you guys later.

[Vicious89x]

Then he would have just said so, and avoided having JVoR lynch himself to prove the guilty verdict.

Also, I really doubt Wes is a miller.

I doubt it as well, I'm just playing devil's advocate.

The point being, I find you BOTH highly suspicious. I am not against DPR's investigation at all. But I am still concerned to jump both feet into trusting you 3 on this. And then throw in the fact JVoR wanted to act like a tough guy and threaten me with being investigated and that really irritated me. Which is why I told him to check me out if he's so sure of his ability.

[Integrity28]

I've offered to be findered like 8 times already today.

Odds are it will happen tonight no matter how this turns out

You could offer eleventy-billion times... and it won't matter because your pal JVOR refuses to consider using the investigation on you.

[slats]

You could offer eleventy-billion times... and it won't matter because your pal JVOR refuses to consider using the investigation on you.

But that's the thing, isn't it? If JVoR and Doggin are "pals," what's the point of having one investigate the other? What does that net us?

Investigating DPR has the potential to give us a lot more.

[Integrity28]

And i don't know why everyone is willing to believe two of the more suspicious players in the game, one of them unveiling an up to now never before seen ability, the other hinting at a weird role and earlier breadcrumbing that bleedin likely "invented" roles for these games.

You'd think most would pause and consider it a bit, or atleast approach it more cautiously, but here we are, like dominos we have slats, dan x and doggin all going for it without a moments pause..

I don't know yet what the right or wrong play is, but I'm know i don't like how quickly everyone has lept at this too good to be true scenario..

This...

it's all focused at DPR..

Is my problem..

and it's being driven by 2 of my top 4 susicious, targetting a third (DPR) and the 4th is going crazy asking to be voted to..

the whole thing stinks

Is what I've been saying.

Because I'm town, and this sounds completely, 100% plausible to me.

I feel very, very good right now about JVoR and Doggin based on what I was told by Bleedin.

I'd be thrilled if DPR turns up innocent, but the way he's squirming I really think he won't.

Trying Crusher's NG, either. He's volunteering. It's possible he's a Godfather who'd love to be investigated like this.

And I'm starting to think...

Yes, i was just thinking the thread needed more cryptic the mod told me so comments..

that maybe, just maybe...

We are not a team. It's just that their reveals ring 100% true to me.

Doggin and DPR are the big fish here. If we're going to pull a gambit like this, it should be to get a big fish cleared or cooked. I just don't think it works nearly as well to have him investigate Doggin. Not when they've been accused of being in cahoots for pages and pages now.

And you don't have to get defensive with me, I'm not accusing you of anything. But I have been on Crusher for a while, and I know when I've been a Godfather in the past, I welcomed investigations.

Again, lets not compare this to a mundane situation. 2 weird roles, 2 highly suspicious players going after a third.

jvor's reveal was to protect you, but he refuses to sacrifice himself and confirm you by investigation. I don't get it, why would a townie with a power reveal himself to save another townie, which he should, theoretically, have no legitimate information on.

Slats refusing to even look in your direction is strange in the same way. At minimum you've severly muddied the waters, borderline lied (the gambit thing), created wifoms's and imaginary teams, got into a huge pissing match based on identity politics, claimed a crazy role, yet both Slats and Jvor are so convinced of your innocence??? how???

There's only 3 reasons I can think of for that... and 2 of them are anti-town

But that's the thing, isn't it? If JVoR and Doggin are "pals," what's the point of having one investigate the other? What does that net us?

Investigating DPR has the potential to give us a lot more.

Slats should be the guy we investigate with JVOR's power?

[slats]

Slats should be the guy we investigate with JVOR's power?

I think it's a waste, but I'm 100% fine with it.

[The Crusher]

I was suspicious of Doggin early. I made a comment, maybe a couple times, that he made a simple post that made me believe he was probably town. So I left that breadcrumb out there, too, if you will. The post I was talking about is the one you apparently found where he said something to the effect of, "I wouldn't put it past Bleedin' to make up roles for this game."

Having to spell it out for someone I know isn't this dense is disconcerting - but I also have a role that I've never seen in any game, or read about in any wiki.

Let me guess, let me guess, your a magic turd? Just kidding Slatsy watsy fatsy watsy loves you.

Truth is my role is sorta unique. Kinda similar but I don;t have a problem that Bleedin got creative with some of the roles.

My probalem is this: Slatsy Watsy and Fatsy Watsy got into it on a misunderstanding. Truth is Fatsy Watsy has a big dense head and misunderstood Slatsy Watsy. Then JVOR after one single Fatsy Watsy post jumped all over poor Fatsy Watsy and got into telling me what a bad Fatsy Watsy Iam. He continued to keep insiting I should be lynched because Im a bad Fatsy Watsy and the whole Time it was really a mistake that Fatsy Watsy made when Slatsy Watsy confused Fatsy Watsy. Who is rather confusable. So why is it? That JVOR has the power to investaigate Fatsy Watsy and clear his good name but won't? Why? CTM wants to see Fatsy Watsy investigated and Dan X said she would like to see Fatsy Watsy investigated and they haven;t really accused Fatsy Watsy of being a bad Fatsy WAtsy. What gives JVOR?

Fine if JVOR wont investigate me Im putting my vote back on him. Not yer because Ive been popping in and having fun but not read yet. but when Fatsy Watsy gets home and JVOR still wont investigate me Im gonna vote for him.

unvote

[Jets Voice of Reason]

I stepped away and calmed down a bit. This game is making me angry and frustrated when i should enjoying it.

I will do whoever you guys want. Dpr's resistance to it versus actually being self assured that he would come back innocent is sign enough he knows what it would come back as. If it's doggin then i will investigate doggin. I spent a lot of time trying to come up with a plan with no loopholes. I just wanted at least to be able to select who i wanted to but you guys are giving me way too much grief over it.

Crusher and vicious, i don't like myself when i play this game so angrily. I don't consider myself arrogant in real life either but i will try and tone it down.

Dpr can still kiss my ass as i am sure he is gonna call me emo again

[slats]

Let me guess, let me guess, your a magic turd? Just kidding Slatsy watsy fatsy watsy loves you.

Truth is my role is sorta unique. Kinda similar but I don;t have a problem that Bleedin got creative with some of the roles.

My probalem is this: Slatsy Watsy and Fatsy Watsy got into it on a misunderstanding. Truth is Fatsy Watsy has a big dense head and misunderstood Slatsy Watsy. Then JVOR after one single Fatsy Watsy post jumped all over poor Fatsy Watsy and got into telling me what a bad Fatsy Watsy Iam. He continued to keep insiting I should be lynched because Im a bad Fatsy Watsy and the whole Time it was really a mistake that Fatsy Watsy made when Slatsy Watsy confused Fatsy Watsy. Who is rather confusable. So why is it? That JVOR has the power to investaigate Fatsy Watsy and clear his good name but won't? Why? CTM wants to see Fatsy Watsy investigated and Dan X said she would like to see Fatsy Watsy investigated and they haven;t really accused Fatsy Watsy of being a bad Fatsy WAtsy. What gives JVOR?

Fine if JVOR wont investigate me Im putting my vote back on him. Not yer because Ive been popping in and having fun but not read yet. but when Fatsy Watsy gets home and JVOR still wont investigate me Im gonna vote for him.

unvote

Aside from wanting to clear your own name, what do you think about investigating DPR vs. investigating Doggin?

[CTM]

I stepped away and calmed down a bit. This game is making me angry and frustrated when i should enjoying it.

I will do whoever you guys want. Dpr's resistance to it versus actually being self assured that he would come back innocent is sign enough he knows what it would come back as. If it's doggin then i will investigate doggin. I spent a lot of time trying to come up with a plan with no loopholes. I just wanted at least to be able to select who i wanted to but you guys are giving me way too much grief over it.

Crusher and vicious, i don't like myself when i play this game so angrily. I don't consider myself arrogant in real life either but i will try and tone it down.

Dpr can still kiss my ass as i am sure he is gonna call me emo again

Why reveal in the first place?

[The Crusher]

Aside from wanting to clear your own name, what do you think about investigating DPR vs. investigating Doggin?

At least one of them are dirty if not both.

My problem is I don't believe JVOR one tiny bit. Yet I have to read his reveal more closely. Don;t want to just put the vote back on him. Because I took it off of Doggin because of Doggins reveal so I need to give JVOR the same benefit of the doubt.

Other than that Im ready to whoop some damn azz.

[Doggin94it]

I28, of course I'm not worried about JVoR investigating me, because:

A) he said he wouldn't and

as slats pointed out, if we're teammates, why would I be concerned? He'd say I'm guilty, you'd lynch him, and it would let me off the hook until the real finder viewed me (which, again, makes the entire idea of this being a grand mafia plan to get half our team lynched self-evidently absurd)

The point is, DPR keeps saying that I said no to investigation, which is a lie. Lynch all liars comes into play.

To be clear, I would be very, very happy to be investigated by JVoR

[CTM]

Another though..

In superhero game, I was scum and my vote counted 2. What happens if we put him at L-1 and he dies?

Doggin's already been at L-1

[Integrity28]

Why reveal in the first place?

Agreed. I would like an answer to this question as well.

There was waning pressure on you... and Doggin was at L1, and I had just unvoted him and put him back at L2 so he could make a final case for himself... and them BAM... you out yourself for no good reason, other than to insist that you have a 1-time power that you will NOT use on Doggin.

Then you disappear for a couple hours, offer up the emo explanation of getting frustrated, in order to exploit those weak enough to empathize with you... and now you are willing suddenly to consider Doggin.

Seems to me there was likely an offline conference... while Slats kept us entertained over here.

[Dan.]

Another though..

In superhero game, I was scum and my vote counted 2. What happens if we put him at L-1 and he dies?

Doggin's already been at L-1

I thought of this and was just coming back here to post it. Unvote for right now.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

Why reveal in the first place?

Do you see a scenario where someone gets to l-1, i find them innocent and you would suddenly hear what i have to say? This way ensures the power is useful one way or the other and like i said after said use i am roleless.

In order to illustrate the difference from last game, survival is not an issue for me. I legitimately don't think doggin or slats is mafia. If i have a strong enough feeling i will state as much. I.e defending klecko in the fat and happy game.

[Vicious89x]

Guys FYI I'm out. At the gym waiting for a bench to start. I'll be on at my usual time

[Doggin94it]

CTM, if DPR dies at L-1 and is revealed as town, you can go ahead and lynch us on the theory that we were planning exactly that. Again, it becomes a 2 for 1 trade that any townie should be salivating to make.

Yet you are spinning ever more elaborate scenarios to avoid having DPR investigated. Why?

[CTM]

Do you see a scenario where someone gets to l-1, i find them innocent and you would suddenly hear what i have to say? This way ensures the power is useful one way or the other and like i said after said use i am roleless.

In order to illustrate the difference from last game, survival is not an issue for me. I legitimately don't think doggin or slats is mafia. If i have a strong enough feeling i will state as much. I.e defending klecko in the fat and happy game.

I see a scenario in which we have 2 claimed doctors or cops in which your ability would come in a lot more handy then a day 1 doggin save..

So, regardless, if you just did this to be helpful, it was a bad decision or purposefully anti-town. And just like last game, you making a bad decision is less likely then you being anti-town aligned..

[Dan.]

My probalem is this: Slatsy Watsy and Fatsy Watsy got into it on a misunderstanding. Truth is Fatsy Watsy has a big dense head and misunderstood Slatsy Watsy. Then JVOR after one single Fatsy Watsy post jumped all over poor Fatsy Watsy and got into telling me what a bad Fatsy Watsy Iam. He continued to keep insiting I should be lynched because Im a bad Fatsy Watsy and the whole Time it was really a mistake that Fatsy Watsy made when Slatsy Watsy confused Fatsy Watsy. Who is rather confusable. So why is it? That JVOR has the power to investaigate Fatsy Watsy and clear his good name but won't? Why? CTM wants to see Fatsy Watsy investigated and Dan X said she would like to see Fatsy Watsy investigated and they haven;t really accused Fatsy Watsy of being a bad Fatsy WAtsy. What gives JVOR?

]

You're so funny today!

Just wanted to clarify that I don't especially want you investigated over DPR or Doggin. I'd like to have one of them investigated and don't care which one because we gain information either way. Investigating you brings us a little less info but is still useful to us since a lot of people's theories seem to involve you. Aside from that, I'm okay with anyone else being investigated because no matter what we're gaining a lot from determining JVoR's alignment (plus whatever result he gives us).

Of course all of this hinges on us getting a result from and lynching JVoR. Which, as I pointed out in my last post, could potentially not happen if there's someone with a double vote out there.

[CTM]

CTM, if DPR dies at L-1 and is revealed as town, you can go ahead and lynch us on the theory that we were planning exactly that. Again, it becomes a 2 for 1 trade that any townie should be salivating to make.

Yet you are spinning ever more elaborate scenarios to avoid having DPR investigated. Why?

As i've said, I don't like who is pushing it nor does the whole thing make sense to me, and when it doesn't amke sense, it's usually not true

[Dan.]

CTM, if DPR dies at L-1 and is revealed as town, you can go ahead and lynch us on the theory that we were planning exactly that. Again, it becomes a 2 for 1 trade that any townie should be salivating to make.

Yet you are spinning ever more elaborate scenarios to avoid having DPR investigated. Why?

I guess this mostly makes sense. I'm slightly worried that it could be someone else (not necessarily you two) with that power who could use it to his advantage. But maybe if we stick to an agreed-upon voting order, as JVoR suggested, we can make sure whoever puts the L-1 vote does it only for a second before unvoting.

[Dan.]

I meant the L-2 & L-1 votes.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

I see a scenario in which we have 2 claimed doctors or cops in which your ability would come in a lot more handy then a day 1 doggin save..

So, regardless, if you just did this to be helpful, it was a bad decision or purposefully anti-town. And just like last game, you making a bad decision is less likely then you being anti-town aligned..

At least you stopped underestimating me you guys come to a consensus. I don't care who it is.