Does anyone care that Nolan Ryan....

[SenorGato]

probably did steroids?

His pitching coach and the guy he built his workout with...the guy who he credits with teaching him how to maintain his body as a pitcher, Tom House, is a known 'roids user. House trained alot of pitchers actually, including Mark Prior.

[Vudu]

Baseball is a dirty sport, tell us something we didnt already know. If we didnt care about the rest we sure as hell wont care about Nolan Ryan.

[SenorGato]

^^^ They did care about all the rest. They even got the government involved a little bit.

[Vudu]

^^^ They did care about all the rest. They even got the government involved a little bit.

Not care as in no REAL repercussions! No arrests, noone was stripped of whatever records they had Etc

I shouldve worded it better!

[neckdemon]

probably did steroids?

His pitching coach and the guy he built his workout with...the guy who he credits with teaching him how to maintain his body as a pitcher, Tom House, is a known 'roids user. House trained alot of pitchers actually, including Mark Prior.

unless someone comes out with some sort of proof i'm not gonna say nolan ryan did steroids. sure it's possible he did. but it's also possible he didn't. i'v enever seen his name on any lists and he spoke against it. it's not fair for you to to just come here and say he probably did it. you can't just assume sh*t because someone he knows did it. one of my best friends was a big time heroin addict. i hung out with him every day (he's dead now). but i never ever touched the stuff. you think some people assume i did heroin along with him? i mean it makes sense....we hung out all the time and everyone knew he was a heroin addict. asuming someone did somethign because someone he knew did it is just dumb imo.

[SenorGato]

unless someone comes out with some sort of proof i'm not gonna say nolan ryan did steroids. sure it's possible he did. but it's also possible he didn't.

Well yea...but it's possible Bonds didn't do steroids too.

It seems like the only players paying for steroid use with their reputations are guys from the 90's.

[neckdemon]

Well yea...but it's possible Bonds didn't do steroids too.

It seems like the only players paying for steroid use with their reputations are guys from the 90's.

you missed the addition i made to my post. but bonds admitted he did the cream and the clear. he just said some BS about thinking it was flax seed oil.

[SenorGato]

unless someone comes out with some sort of proof i'm not gonna say nolan ryan did steroids. sure it's possible he did. but it's also possible he didn't. i'v enever seen his name on any lists and he spoke against it. it's not fair for you to to just come here and say he probably did it. you can't just assume sh*t because someone he knows did it. one of my best friends was a big time heroin addict. i hung out with him every day (he's dead now). but i never ever touched the stuff. you think some people assume i did heroin along with him? i mean it makes sense....we hung out all the time and everyone knew he was a heroin addict. asuming someone did somethign because someone he knew did it is just dumb imo.

It's more probable than possible.

But yes, it's wrong to assume.

Hanging out with a heroin addict...interesting?

[Bruce Banner]

^^^ They did care about all the rest. They even got the government involved a little bit.

McCain doesn't coun't. He's a joke.

9tajFPqKoJY

[neckdemon]

It's more probable than possible.

But yes, it's wrong to assume.

Hanging out with a heroin addict...interesting?

we grew up together and were good friends growing up....long before he started with the heroin. i tried every day to get him to stop using. but in the end he od'ed. sad really.....he left behind a wife and a young daughter.

[Scott Dierking]

probably did steroids?

His pitching coach and the guy he built his workout with...the guy who he credits with teaching him how to maintain his body as a pitcher, Tom House, is a known 'roids user. House trained alot of pitchers actually, including Mark Prior.

You provide evidence of nothing

[SenorGato]

You provide evidence of nothing

The guy is an obvious candidate...in his late career he played with a whole group of guys who'd get accused of the stuff (lets call them the Rangers)...he built his (I guess famous/legendary) workout and training regimen with a man known to use steroids...the only other guys who lasted as long as he did were a couple knuckleballers and one spitballer...all circumstantial for the most part but the guy also pitched in the drugged out 80's...

The likeliness of me finding actual hard evidence in 2010 is close to 0...doesn't mean there's not a lot of stuff that add up to a guy who proooooobably used the stuff. Tons of players who played through the late 70's and 80's will get away with using steroids while guys from the 90's and 00's will get trashed and ridiculed for it.

[Scott Dierking]

The guy is an obvious candidate...in his late career he played with a whole group of guys who'd get accused of the stuff (lets call them the Rangers)...he built his (I guess famous/legendary) workout and training regimen with a man known to use steroids...the only other guys who lasted as long as he did were a couple knuckleballers and one spitballer...all circumstantial for the most part but the guy also pitched in the drugged out 80's...

The likeliness of me finding actual hard evidence in 2010 is close to 0...doesn't mean there's not a lot of stuff that add up to a guy who proooooobably used the stuff. Tons of players who played through the late 70's and 80's will get away with using steroids while guys from the 90's and 00's will get trashed and ridiculed for it.

If he did it, there is evidence and someone knows of it. And considering the stature of the person we are talking about, someone would make a royal mint squealing.

Being associated with someone does not amount to guilt.

Randy Johnson pitched till he was 45, Seaver into his early 40'3. They all changed how they pitched somewhat. There are other examples.

[Blackout]

hasn't Nolan Ryan always been a huge proponent AGAINST roidage?

[SenorGato]

[quote name='Blackout

[Blackout]

looks like you are right Senior

Nolan declines to discuss them a lot

see this 2006 quote by Torii Hunter in USA today:

Outfielder Torii Hunter of the Minnesota Twins called the investigation "stupid" and said there would be no investigation if Bonds weren't chasing the all-time home run record.

"They can say what they want, but there's no way they would launch an investigation if Barry Bonds was not about to break Babe Ruth's record," Hunter said. "If you are going to dig, dig real deep. Dig into guys like Nolan Ryan. What was he taking? You want to bring guys like that down? I don't think so."

[Thai Jet]

If he did it, there is evidence and someone knows of it. And considering the stature of the person we are talking about, someone would make a royal mint squealing.

Being associated with someone does not amount to guilt.

Randy Johnson pitched till he was 45, Seaver into his early 40'3. They all changed how they pitched somewhat. There are other examples.

And since no one has, I doubt it too. I've always thought of Nolan Ryan as being the squeaky clean All American type.

[NIGHT STALKER]

As I've said before when we discussed PED's, no name from the steriod era would surprise me. Notice how HR production is down since they started clamping down on steriods...coincidence?

[Scott Dierking]

As I've said before when we discussed PED's, no name from the steriod era would surprise me. Notice how HR production is down since they started clamping down on steriods...coincidence?

But, that doesn't mean that people should start witch hunts on famous players, just because.

[SenorGato]

looks like you are right Senior

Nolan declines to discuss them a lot

see this 2006 quote by Torii Hunter in USA today:

Outfielder Torii Hunter of the Minnesota Twins called the investigation "stupid" and said there would be no investigation if Bonds weren't chasing the all-time home run record.

"They can say what they want, but there's no way they would launch an investigation if Barry Bonds was not about to break Babe Ruth's record," Hunter said. "If you are going to dig, dig real deep. Dig into guys like Nolan Ryan. What was he taking? You want to bring guys like that down? I don't think so."

You know I hate when the race card is even somewhat played, but it's true. No one questioned Ryan when he was throwing 95+ and leading the league in K's at 43, but Barry Bonds is playing at all time levels in his 30's? He MUST be cheating...Nolan Ryan would never do that...he's a Texas boy who loves America...love the game...he would never disgrace himself like that!

Seriously, so many things but actual evidence point to Ryan and many from his era doing PEDs, but those guys will NEVER EVER get touched. Ever. THAT is why the steroid issue in baseball is probably the single most retarded issue of all time. You can't just start a witch hunt and keep it within one era just because....and it's not like everyone from that era is getting treated the same way about their steroid use either.

I don't even think it's a big deal that Ryan probably did steroids...after a while Canseco's 80% didn't even see like it'd be far off. Pete Rose is another pre-90's guy I think is an obvious candidate.

[neckdemon]

[quote name='Blackout

[Scott Dierking]

You know I hate when the race card is even somewhat played, but it's true. No one questioned Ryan when he was throwing 95+ and leading the league in K's at 43, but Barry Bonds is playing at all time levels in his 30's? He MUST be cheating...Nolan Ryan would never do that...he's a Texas boy who loves America...love the game...he would never disgrace himself like that!

Seriously, so many things but actual evidence point to Ryan and many from his era doing PEDs, but those guys will NEVER EVER get touched. Ever. THAT is why the steroid issue in baseball is probably the single most retarded issue of all time. You can't just start a witch hunt and keep it within one era just because....and it's not like everyone from that era is getting treated the same way about their steroid use either.

I don't even think it's a big deal that Ryan probably did steroids...after a while Canseco's 80% didn't even see like it'd be far off. Pete Rose is another pre-90's guy I think is an obvious candidate.

You are just so wrong in so many parts of this.

Barry Bonds got CAUGHT using illegal substances. That is a fact. There is no proof that you have produced that Nolan Ryan did. How does this become racially motivated? Their race is just a coincidence here.

Was Jason Giambi villified as a pariah because of his race when he got caught?

You say Ryan "probably" did steroids, yet you don't have a shred of evidence.

Bad all the way around on your part.

[SenorGato]

^^^ The problem with your thinking is that you're assuming steroids was always baseball's #1 public problem before Barry Bonds. The steroid witch hunt began with Bonds...in the 2000's...steroids and PEDs have been an issue within the game for waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay longer than that (Willie Mays and tons of players in the 60's and early have admitted to using amphetamines...how did the workhorse relievers of the past recover so quickly?)...no one cared until some angry black guy with a reputation as a prick started setting a pace that would destroy the most sacred record in the game set by the jovial white guy that rebuilt the game.

As far as Ryan...duh I have no evidence...where would I, a dude on the internet blabbing away, find evidence on a MLB legend using steroids 17 years after he retired and 7-8 years before anyone gave two sh*ts about steroid use in baseball? It's not as if I'm making an uneducated guess based on nothing...the guy was trained by a known steroid user and a guy who dedicated himself to training pitchers based on his research and what he learned during his ML career...I have some thoughts on the 80's I haven't fully formed but needless to say hard drugs were done during the 80's by many professionals in many fields...the guy who pitched almost 30 years in the big leagues and didn't lose much, if anything, on his fastball in that span...he was a fitness nut who was wholly into being the best pticher he can be (ask Clemens and Bonds where that mindset can take the exceptionally talented...or Alex Sanchez and others for the mediocre ML talents)...he played in a league where clearly MANY people were doing steroids and MANY owners/fans/writers turned their back on it because sh*t, who cares, right?...While I have no hard proof on Ryan and my goal in life isn't dead set on proving he did steroids, but even without hard evidence there's alot of circumstancial stuff that can allow a speculative guy like myself to point to "hell yea he did that stuff."

[Scott Dierking]

^^^ The problem with your thinking is that you're assuming steroids was always baseball's #1 public problem before Barry Bonds. The steroid witch hunt began with Bonds...in the 2000's...steroids and PEDs have been an issue within the game for waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay longer than that (Willie Mays and tons of players in the 60's and early have admitted to using amphetamines...how did the workhorse relievers of the past recover so quickly?)...no one cared until some angry black guy with a reputation as a prick started setting a pace that would destroy the most sacred record in the game set by the jovial white guy that rebuilt the game.

People cared because nostalgic home run records, ones that stood for decades began to get obliterated.

Bonds, Mcgwire and Sosa all took the backlash for it. The fact that Bonds was the most defiant of that group (as well carries a swarmy personality overall), did not help his cause.

If you feel that has something to do with his race, I guess that is your problem. So be it.

How this carries Nolan Ryan into the issue is absolutely unfathomable. THAT was your original premise, which you carry no supporting evidence upon.

[SenorGato]

Bonds, Mcgwire and Sosa all took the backlash for it.

There's anecdotes that have been thrown out since the steroid scandal that McGwire used to do interveiws with a bottle of andro in his locker that wasn't well hidden...this was supposed to be from his '98 season....know what was said about it at the time? Absolutely nothing, because McGwire was a saint in St. Louis.

[AFJF]

There's anecdotes that have been thrown out since the steroid scandal that McGwire used to do interveiws with a bottle of andro in his locker that wasn't well hidden...this was supposed to be from his '98 season....know what was said about it at the time? Absolutely nothing, because McGwire was a saint in St. Louis.

Not a fair statement IMO. You make it sound as if McGuire had a bottle of andro in plain view at all times. Nobody here knows if that was the case. What we do know, is that we learned about the andro from the same media you're implying was protecting him. At least that's how I heard about it. Mac was doing an interview in front of his locker, reporter asked what it was, Mac answered..and BAM! Top sports story for some time. Andro scrutinized and eventually pulled from shelves.

[R3V1S24]

im not surprised if everyone did steroids in the mlb

[Scott Dierking]

There's anecdotes that have been thrown out since the steroid scandal that McGwire used to do interveiws with a bottle of andro in his locker that wasn't well hidden...this was supposed to be from his '98 season....know what was said about it at the time? Absolutely nothing, because McGwire was a saint in St. Louis.

Is the federal pursuit of Roger Clemens racially motivated?

You are all over the place with your arguments.

Exactly what proof do you have on Nolan Ryan again?

Oh.

[SenorGato]

Exactly what proof do you have on Nolan Ryan again?

Full tittle of thread you're in:

Does anyone care that Nolan Ryan probably did steroids?

As far as Ryan...duh I have no evidence

The likeliness of me finding actual hard evidence in 2010 is close to 0...doesn't mean there's not a lot of stuff that add up to a guy who proooooobably used the stuff.

Seriously, so many things but actual evidence point to Ryan and many from his era doing PEDs,

In case I haven't made it clear, I don't have any actual evidence.

I'm speculating because:

1. I don't like the fact that people who did steroids are "tainted" as if they were the inventors of cheating in baseball/sports. Maybe if I thought Canseco's 80% number was ridiculous.

2. I like it even less when I consider this isn't the Black Sox scandal or Pete Rose where we (for the most part) know everyone involved.

3. There are many, many, many guys who'll never get touched by this scandal due to one circumstance or another (Ryan being one of them).

That said, this is a waste of a thread because I went about this all wrong.

I'll put it this way:

What would you think if Nolan Ryan was found to have done steroids?

[Scott Dierking]

Full tittle of thread you're in:

Does anyone care that Nolan Ryan probably did steroids?

In case I haven't made it clear, I don't have any actual evidence.

I'm speculating because:

1. I don't like the fact that people who did steroids are "tainted" as if they were the inventors of cheating in baseball/sports. Maybe if I thought Canseco's 80% number was ridiculous.

2. I like it even less when I consider this isn't the Black Sox scandal or Pete Rose where we (for the most part) know everyone involved.

3. There are many, many, many guys who'll never get touched by this scandal due to one circumstance or another (Ryan being one of them).

That said, this is a waste of a thread because I went about this all wrong.

I'll put it this way:

What would you think if Nolan Ryan was found to have done steroids?

At least you admit you went about this the wrong way.

It is hard for "someone to be touched by this" when there is no proof he needs to be.

All you are doing is needlessly speculating, which means nothing.

[neckdemon]

Full tittle of thread you're in:

Does anyone care that Nolan Ryan probably did steroids?

In case I haven't made it clear, I don't have any actual evidence.

I'm speculating because:

1. I don't like the fact that people who did steroids are "tainted" as if they were the inventors of cheating in baseball/sports. Maybe if I thought Canseco's 80% number was ridiculous.

2. I like it even less when I consider this isn't the Black Sox scandal or Pete Rose where we (for the most part) know everyone involved.

3. There are many, many, many guys who'll never get touched by this scandal due to one circumstance or another (Ryan being one of them).

That said, this is a waste of a thread because I went about this all wrong.

I'll put it this way:

What would you think if Nolan Ryan was found to have done steroids?

i'd think he was a cheating loser who doesn't deserve to be in the hall of fame and who's records should be stricken......which is exactly how i feel about all the other guys who have been caught using steroids.

[neckdemon]

No one questioned Ryan when he was throwing 95+ and leading the league in K's at 43,.

i'd just like to point out that at about 60 years old nolan ryan threw out the first pitch at a baseball game and was clocked at 85 mph in street clothes and without warming up. you think he's still doing steroids at 60? maybe the guy just had an incredible arm?

[SenorGato]

i'd just like to point out that at about 60 years old nolan ryan threw out the first pitch at a baseball game and was clocked at 85 mph in street clothes and without warming up. you think he's still doing steroids at 60? maybe the guy just had an incredible arm?

It's kind of a given that he had an incredible arm dude. Barry Bonds, Mark McGwire, and Jose Canseco were incredibly talented guys themselves...doesn't take away the fact that steroids gave them a boost.

[neckdemon]

It's kind of a given that he had an incredible arm dude. Barry Bonds, Mark McGwire, and Jose Canseco were incredibly talented guys themselves...doesn't take away the fact that steroids gave them a boost.

i'm just saying... the fact that he can still throw a baseball 85mph at age 60 would say to me that him throwing 95 is his early 40's isn't indicative of any ped's.

[SenorGato]

i'm just saying... the fact that he can still throw a baseball 85mph at age 60 would say to me that him throwing 95 is his early 40's isn't indicative of any ped's.

And I'm saying, it's also already a well established fact that Nolan Ryan had a pretty strong arm. Barry Bonds, Alex Rodriguez, Jason Giambi, Jose Canseco, and Mark McGwire had alot of power without steroids too.