stevenlourie Posted May 9, 2010 Share Posted May 9, 2010 I spent a lot of time on this and I was hoping to get some feedback/discussion/debate, what do you think? http://www.footballfanspot.com/newyorkjets.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falcon63 Posted May 9, 2010 Share Posted May 9, 2010 I disagree with your comments about NT position. Jenkins' backup did FANTASTIC last season, as he was even rated by ESPN as the #1 run stopping NT in the NFL last season. The McKnight pick wasn't bad, but it definitely isn't a "A", since I don't think he has a whole lot of potential, even before I heard of his rough start. Should've traded up for Everson Griffin, but it's not the end of the world. I like the comments about the FB situation, and it wasn't needed, but insurance can't hurt. As for 3-4 DE, hopefully the Gholston switch works out and removes his bust label. Overall, pretty good analysis, and hope my feedback helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted May 9, 2010 Share Posted May 9, 2010 Very objective and favorable from someone who describes himself as a Pats fan in the article. Your primary concern seems to be the Jets' pass rush. Here's my take: The Jets pass rush improved greatly when they traded for Antonio Cromartie, and improved again when they drafted Kyle Wilson. The Jets had the #1 pass defense in the league last year with a minimal pass rush, the addition of those two corners and Jason Taylor should do a lot to change that. Opponents' top three receivers will be tightly covered. There will be coverage sacks. And the Jets will be even more aggressive with blitzes having three CB's they can trust in man. But the thing is, you don't beat Peyton Manning by rushing him. He's too good for that. You beat him by outscoring him. And the Jets added weapons on the offensive side of the ball to help them achieve that goal. Jets entered the off season looking to maintain the #1 defense, and improve the #20 offense. The offense needed more attention and got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoicsentry Posted May 9, 2010 Share Posted May 9, 2010 Very objective and favorable from someone who describes himself as a Pats fan in the article. Your primary concern seems to be the Jets' pass rush. Here's my take: The Jets pass rush improved greatly when they traded for Antonio Cromartie, and improved again when they drafted Kyle Wilson. The Jets had the #1 pass defense in the league last year with a minimal pass rush, the addition of those two corners and Jason Taylor should do a lot to change that. Opponents' top three receivers will be tightly covered. There will be coverage sacks. And the Jets will be even more aggressive with blitzes having three CB's they can trust in man. But the thing is, you don't beat Peyton Manning by rushing him. He's too good for that. You beat him by outscoring him. And the Jets added weapons on the offensive side of the ball to help them achieve that goal. Jets entered the off season looking to maintain the #1 defense, and improve the #20 offense. The offense needed more attention and got it. Did the Giants beat the Pats in the superbowl by putting up big numbers or by shutting them down with their defense? IMO, the latter. So, I don't understand this line of thinking. I know rules have gotten more offense friendly lately, but if you look at last season, Sanchez threw tons of picks and for very minimal yardage overall. Even a modest improvement makes a big difference. We don't need to be top 10 passing, just not bottom barrel like we were last season. Plus going against Peyton Manning, the fresher the defense the better. That's why it's all about the running game. The formula for beating Peyton, last year and next... would've been a mix of the kind of run game Miami put up against them with the kind of defense we can play. We didn't bring the run game, so we lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bear Posted May 9, 2010 Share Posted May 9, 2010 Why doe`s everyone think we don`t have a pass rush? Did you forget about Calvin Pace? He only led the Jets in sacks last season,and missed the first four games. With the addition of Cromartie, Wilson ,and Pool, and Lowery covering the fourth receiver I truly believe Pace will get 12-15 sacks, and Taylor adding about 7-10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenlourie Posted May 10, 2010 Author Share Posted May 10, 2010 Why doe`s everyone think we don`t have a pass rush? Did you forget about Calvin Pace? He only led the Jets in sacks last season,and missed the first four games. With the addition of Cromartie, Wilson ,and Pool, and Lowery covering the fourth receiver I truly believe Pace will get 12-15 sacks, and Taylor adding about 7-10. Whoa. Whoa. Don't get too crazy about Pace. He's good, but 12-15, for a guy who's going on 30 and has never had more than 8. I don't think so. Pace wasn't my issue. It's what they were going to do next to him. Taylor won't last forever and history shows that pass rushers take at least 1-2 years to develop, which is about how much longer Taylor has left in the tank. However, they drafted pretty perfectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted May 10, 2010 Share Posted May 10, 2010 Last season: 9-7 Draft: #29 CB Kyle Wilson (Boise State) I would have prefered that they took a pass rusher like Jerry Hughes because of the positional value, but this is fine. I know they have Darrelle Revis and Antonio Cromartie, but Cromartie is a bit of a boom or bust type trade and in this league, which is becoming progressively pass heavy, you almost need 3 strong cornerbacks to make it deep into the playoffs. They couldn’t stop the Colts’ last year because, while Revis shut down Reggie Wayne, Peyton just had too many other options. If Wilson is half as good as ESPN hypes him to be and Cromartie pans out, this is a scary secondary that I’m sure even New Orleans and Indianapolis would have trouble with, especially if they get a better pass rush. Grade: A- #61 G Vladimir Ducaase (Massachusetts) I liked this pick even before they cut Faneca, but with Faneca gone this makes a lot of sense. Ducaase is a punishing run blocker who fits their run heavy offense well and he’s much cheaper and younger than Faneca, who is a bit overrated in my opinion. I still don’t like that they haven’t improved their pass rush, but this was the next best thing. Grade: A- #112 RB Joe McKnight (USC) I liked this pick before they traded Leon Washington, but with Washington gone this makes perfect sense and McKnight is a steal at this point. He’s not a feature back, but he’ll compliment Shonn Greene well longterm and be a nice shorterm 3rd down back. Grade: A #139 FB John Conner (Kentucky) I happen to think Tony Richardson is one of the best fullbacks in the league, but he is getting up there in age. I’m not in love with the whole fullback of the future idea, but Conner is a decent value and a good addition to a run heavy team. He can also be a short yardage back and make some catches. Grade: B Overall: The Jets didn’t have a lot of picks, but they made them count. They took 3 guys who will have immediate impacts on their team and another who will in the near future. Also, the reason they didn’t have a ton of picks is because they traded them for veterans like Cromartie and Santonio Holmes, who will add a lot to the team. They didn’t upgrade the pass rush, but with their corners, that might not matter, especially since they got a veteran rusher in Jason Taylor in free agency. Who knows, maybe Vernon Gholston will pan out this year? I don’t think I know a more stacked team at every position. 3-4 defensive end and rush linebacker are really their biggest holes, but they’re aren’t huge holes. However, what seperates this team from being a true Super Bowl contender is Mark Sanchez. He did alright late last year, but he did throw 20 picks last season. This, of course, is nothing to be worried about as guys like Peyton Manning threw 28 picks as rookies, but there are some guys who throw that many and never improve. Sanchy needs to make that sophomore leap into a big time franchise quarterback. He has an excellent supporting cast and I truly believe in him, but he’ll still have to do it, and that’s, at the moment, a bit of a question mark. Still, great draft doing a lot with a little. As a Patriots fan, this is not a team I look forward to having to face next year. Grade: A Offseason needs: 3-4 Defensive End The Mark Sanchez deal was brilliant, at least for the Jets, but they did lose Kenyon Coleman in the process and have yet to replace him. Adding another big time defensive line pass rusher to their 3-4 defense would make it so much better because they really struggled getting pressure on the quarterback, both from their 3 man line and from their linebackers. They only managed 32 sacks last year and couldn’t get any pressure on Peyton Manning in their playoff loss. Wide Receiver: This one probably won’t get addressed as much as it should for two reasons. One, Rex Ryan is a conservative coach who I can’t see spending a lot of resources on a wide receiver. Two, the Jets seem to like Braylon Edwards even though he only caught 50% of his targets last season. They are reportedly going to slap the 1st/3rd tag on him, which means he’s not going anywhere unless some GM is really stupid. However, Edwards is not as good as they think and Mark Sanchez needs a more dependable #1. More likely, they’ll, at most, look for a slot guy in the 3rd round range or in free agency if they really like one. Traded for Santonio Holmes Cornerback: Darrelle Revis is an amazing cornerback, but he can’t cover everyone. Imagine how much more effective their pass defense would be if they got a better cornerback opposite Revis. Their release of Lito Sheppard shows they probably view this as a need too and they could address this in the first 2 rounds if the draft with a guy like Kyle Wilson or Brandon Ghee in the 1st or a guy like Kareem Jackson or Jerome Murphy in the 2nd. Traded for Antonio Cromartie, Drafted Kyle Wilson (#29) Rush Linebacker: The Jets had one of the best pass defenses in the league last year in almost every category. However, imagine how much better they could get if they had both an upgrade across from Revis and a better elite #1 rush linebacker. They only managed 32 sacks last year. I still have some faith in Vernon Gholston, despite his 0 career sacks in 2 years, but even if they keep him, they’ll have to look at rush linebackers early in the NFL Draft. Jerry Hughes, Ricky Sapp, and Jason Worilds could be options in the 1st through 3rd rounds respectively. Signed Jason Taylor Running Back: The Jets like to work with many running backs. Rex Ryan saw how effective that was when he was a coordinator in Baltimore and used that strategy last year with Thomas Jones, Leon Washington, and Shonn Greene. After releasing Jones, they may want to add one more guy to the mix, especially if Washington can’t bounce back from his leg injury well. Signed LaDainian Tomlinson, Drafted Joe McKnight (#112) Nose Tackle: Kris Jenkins will turn 31 before next season and he’s also coming off of a major injury. The Jets proved, when Jenkins was down, that they don’t have a reliable nose tackle behind him so they may want to target one this offseason. Offensive Guard: Their guards are among the best in the league, but they are also getting up there in age and there is very little depth behind them. Interior line depth is a need this offseason. Drafted Vladimir Ducasse (#61) Free agents: QB Kellen Clemens (restricted)- 1 year 1.1 million RB Leon Washington (restricted)- 1 year 1.7 million RB Thomas Jones- signed with Chiefs 2 years 5 million FB Tony Richardson- resigned G Alan Faneca- signed with Cardinals 1 year 2.5 million WR Braylon Edwards (restricted)- resigned 1 year 5 million WR Brad Smith (restricted)- resigned 1 year 1.7 million WR David Clowney (restricted)- resigned TE Ben Hartsock- resigned OT Wayne Hunter (restricted)- resigned 1 year 1.2 million OT Robert Turner (restricted) NT Howard Green (restricted)- resigned 1 year RLB Marquis Murrell (restricted)- signed with Patriots OLB Larry Izzo CB Lito Sheppard- signed with Vikings 1 year 2 million CB Drew Coleman (restricted)- resigned 1 year 1.6 million CB Donald Strickland- signed with Chargers 2 years S Eric Smith (restricted) resigned 1 year 1.1 million S James Ihedigbo (restricted)- resigned 1 year 1 million K Jay Feely- signed with Cardinals 2 years Offseason moves: Jets trade RB Leon Washington to Seahawks for 5th- and 7th-round picks Jets cut G Alan Faneca Jets sign RLB Jason Taylor Jets re-sign RB Leon Washington Jets re-sign CB Drew Coleman Jets re-sign QB Kellen Clemens Jets acquire WR Santonio Holmes from Steelers for 2010 5th-round pick Jets re-sign OT Wayne Hunter Jets re-sign WR Braylon Edwards Jets re-sign WR Brad Smith Jets re-sign S James Ihedigbo Jets re-sign WR David Clowney Jets re-sign S Eric Smith Jets re-sign FB Tony Richardson Jets sign RB LaDainian Tomlinson Jets sign S Brodney Pool Jets re-sign TE Ben Hartsock Jets trade S Kerry Rhodes to Cardinals for 2010 4th-rounder and 2011 7th-rounder Jets acquire CB Antonio Cromartie from Chargers for conditional 2011 third-round pick Jets cut CB Donald Strickland Jets cut CB Lito Sheppard Jets tender QB Kellen Clemens Jets tender CB Drew Coleman Jets tender S James Ihedigbo Jets tender OT Wayne Hunter Jets tender S Eric Smith Jets tender WR Braylon Edwards Jets tender WR/KR Brad Smith Jets tender RB Leon Washington Jets cut RB Thomas Jones Jets sign K Nick Folk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted May 10, 2010 Share Posted May 10, 2010 Did the Giants beat the Pats in the superbowl by putting up big numbers or by shutting them down with their defense? IMO, the latter. So, I don't understand this line of thinking. I know rules have gotten more offense friendly lately, but if you look at last season, Sanchez threw tons of picks and for very minimal yardage overall. Even a modest improvement makes a big difference. We don't need to be top 10 passing, just not bottom barrel like we were last season. Plus going against Peyton Manning, the fresher the defense the better. That's why it's all about the running game. The formula for beating Peyton, last year and next... would've been a mix of the kind of run game Miami put up against them with the kind of defense we can play. We didn't bring the run game, so we lost. The Giants came from behind in that game, and won with the passing game. Giants scored 17 points all day, 14 came on Manning passes in the fourth quarter. No matter what your team's overall philosophy might be -and I certainly agree that the Jets are a run/defense team- you need to have a QB who can make plays in the two-minute offense to be a championship team. Feel free to cite the 2000 Ravens, but they were clearly the exception. The 2007 Giants who won the Super Bowl gave up over 100 more points that year than the Jets did last year. Offensively, the 2009 Jets were right there with the Giants. The difference was the team's ability to lean on the QB in crunch time, and the QB's ability to deliver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falcon63 Posted May 10, 2010 Share Posted May 10, 2010 Why doe`s everyone think we don`t have a pass rush? Did you forget about Calvin Pace? He only led the Jets in sacks last season,and missed the first four games. With the addition of Cromartie, Wilson ,and Pool, and Lowery covering the fourth receiver I truly believe Pace will get 12-15 sacks, and Taylor adding about 7-10. Off-topic, but has anyone ever told you that you look kind of like Pacman Jones? No offense, haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Jet Posted May 10, 2010 Share Posted May 10, 2010 The Jets proved, when Jenkins was down, that they don’t have a reliable nose tackle behind him so they may want to target one this offseason. Credibility - Gone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bear Posted May 10, 2010 Share Posted May 10, 2010 Off-topic, but has anyone ever told you that you look kind of like Pacman Jones? No offense, haha. lol none taken, but no. I`ve heard a resemble T-Pain lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted May 10, 2010 Share Posted May 10, 2010 Everything I wrote disappeared when I posted it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted May 10, 2010 Share Posted May 10, 2010 Everything I wrote disappeared when I posted it. That must be one of the new board upgrades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted May 10, 2010 Share Posted May 10, 2010 That must be one of the new board upgrades. I had a great post about how the size of your head affects weather patterns and what impact that has on the Jets ability to rush the passer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted May 10, 2010 Share Posted May 10, 2010 Whoa. Whoa. Don't get too crazy about Pace. He's good, but 12-15, for a guy who's going on 30 and has never had more than 8. I don't think so. Pace wasn't my issue. It's what they were going to do next to him. Taylor won't last forever and history shows that pass rushers take at least 1-2 years to develop, which is about how much longer Taylor has left in the tank. However, they drafted pretty perfectly. He's not one of the best rushers in the league, but Pace is certainly better than many give him credit for. Consider that in his two seasons with the Jets he's broken his personal best numbers in sacks both times and last year he put up 8 sacks in only 12 games, and that was despite a 4-game suspension and a couple of very poor games from him coming off of his suspension as well. Add in improved pass coverage and I don't think its impossible to think that Pace is capable of being a double-digit sack guy in this defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted May 10, 2010 Share Posted May 10, 2010 Calvin Pace is one of the best 3-4 LB in the league. I fully expect double digit sacks from him this year.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bear Posted May 10, 2010 Share Posted May 10, 2010 He's not one of the best rushers in the league, but Pace is certainly better than many give him credit for. Consider that in his two seasons with the Jets he's broken his personal best numbers in sacks both times and last year he put up 8 sacks in only 12 games, and that was despite a 4-game suspension and a couple of very poor games from him coming off of his suspension as well. Add in improved pass coverage and I don't think its impossible to think that Pace is capable of being a double-digit sack guy in this defense. Agreed!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeWillie Posted May 10, 2010 Share Posted May 10, 2010 The Giants came from behind in that game, and won with the passing game. Giants scored 17 points all day, 14 came on Manning passes in the fourth quarter. No matter what your team's overall philosophy might be -and I certainly agree that the Jets are a run/defense team- you need to have a QB who can make plays in the two-minute offense to be a championship team. Feel free to cite the 2000 Ravens, but they were clearly the exception. The 2007 Giants who won the Super Bowl gave up over 100 more points that year than the Jets did last year. Offensively, the 2009 Jets were right there with the Giants. The difference was the team's ability to lean on the QB in crunch time, and the QB's ability to deliver. Hey Slats, I think you hit the nail on the head with everything you've said. I think Sanchez can be that QB to lean on going forward ... just very difficult to depend on a guy in his first year, although he did play well down the stretch. Bottom line is that the Colts were a very tough match-up for the Jets last year because of Manning's ability to put up points with a variety of different offensive weapons and our inability for anybody other than Revis to cover them. I like what the Jets have done to upgrade their secondary and it will, along with Taylor, indeed help their pass rush. Couple that with another year of experience for Sanchez and more weapons on the flank, and I think we'll give the Colts, and everybody else for that matter, more to handle offensively this season. Really looking forward to September. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenlourie Posted May 10, 2010 Author Share Posted May 10, 2010 He's not one of the best rushers in the league, but Pace is certainly better than many give him credit for. Consider that in his two seasons with the Jets he's broken his personal best numbers in sacks both times and last year he put up 8 sacks in only 12 games, and that was despite a 4-game suspension and a couple of very poor games from him coming off of his suspension as well. Add in improved pass coverage and I don't think its impossible to think that Pace is capable of being a double-digit sack guy in this defense. Double digit sack guy and 12-15 are different things. 10 or 11 is possible, maybe even 12, but he's not getting near 15 during a 16 game season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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