YouCantPlayHere Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Yes, Cassel with Moss and Welker put up similiar stats to Brady with Branch and Caldwell. How about Brady with Moss and Welker? (against a much harder schedule) 68.9 comp% 4,806 yards 8.3 Y/A 50TD 8 INT 2788 DYAR 56.9 DVOA Cassel? 63.4 comp% 3,693 yards 7.2 Y/A 21TD 11INT 655 DYAR 6.4% DVOA Forget about ballparks, that's not even in the same sport. When adjusted for defenses faced, Brady had one of the best seasons by a QB ever, Cassel wasn't even as good as Shaun Hill this year. In fact, his 2008 season was pretty close to Chad Henne this year. You are still dismissing a first year starter because he had a weaker schedule. How many seasons compare to Brady's 07? A couple? Brady himself doesn't even have another one that comes close. Maybe Moss is just that good. He did make Culpepper look like an all pro According to pro-football-reference.com's Approximate Value stat, Cassel's season was as good as Brady's 09 season and better than every other season in Brady's career minus 07 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouCantPlayHere Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 That sack thing is just flat out wrong. NE has nothing close to a dominant O-line. Everytime they come against great pass rushers they flop. Manning has great control and awareness of the pocket. Brady just has a wicked release. All you have to do is look the the non-Brady year in the time frame you are talking about. Brady was sacked 21, 16, and 25 times in 3 years. Matt Cassel went down 47 times. Brady was sacked on 3.5, 2.75, and 4.8% of his dropbacks. His replacement 8.34% of his dropbacks. Id take Manning over Brady, but Manning has had so many 4th quarter opportunities to win games and make up for that defense or a poor game and he just about always comes up short. Brady had two opportunities won the game, one of which the defense played horribly in. I don't know how you can claim that. Even in the most recent game, many of Brady's sacks were because he held onto the ball so long. I dont know what your Cassel comparison means. Of course a first year starter is going to take more sacks. By default they're less decisive. I've watched the Pats play a lot this year, and every time, I can't believe how much time Brady has to throw the ball. Maybe it's subjective, but I can say with confidence that there is a drastic difference between the Colts and Pats O-Line. Here's an article that might be interesting for you http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703791904576076073115191158.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 You are still dismissing a first year starter because he had a weaker schedule. And there's a huge differeence between a first year starter and a rookie.. It was his third year in the league and he stepped into a record setting offense w/ the luxury of nobody having tape on him and facing off against a weak schedule. And he proceeded, based on the most sophisticated stat out there, to basically play like Chad heene did this year. How many seasons compare to Brady's 07? A couple? Brady himself doesn't even have another one that comes close. Maybe Moss is just that good. He did make Culpepper look like an all pro According to pro-football-reference.com's Approximate Value stat, Cassel's season was as good as Brady's 09 season and better than every other season in Brady's career minus 07 haha.. brady's season this year was an all time season as well.. 2,141 DYAR 53.4% DVOA 3,830 Yards 36 TD's 3 INT 66.0% COMP%.. and approximate value is kind of silly stat to use here when you have DVOA and DYAR at your finger tips. I does nothing to consider SOS, and arbitrarely divies up total offensive performance (points per drive and % of passing/rushing yards) points based draft pick value chart. I'm not totally familiar with it, but it seems ridiculously crude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 The risks he takes with his body and the ball. It looks like he's playing on a playground at times. It hasn't really hurt him as yet, but it looks like he's always an inch away from disaster. got ya. Makes sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 And there's a huge differeence between a first year starter and a rookie.. It was his third year in the league and he stepped into a record setting offense w/ the luxury of nobody having tape on him and facing off against a weak schedule. And he proceeded, based on the most sophisticated stat out there, to basically play like Chad heene did this year. haha.. brady's season this year was an all time season as well.. 2,141 DYAR 53.4% DVOA 3,830 Yards 36 TD's 3 INT 66.0% COMP%.. and approximate value is kind of silly stat to use here when you have DVOA and DYAR at your finger tips. I does nothing to consider SOS, and arbitrarely divies up total offensive performance (points per drive and % of passing/rushing yards) points based draft pick value chart. I'm not totally familiar with it, but it seems ridiculously crude NERDS!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouCantPlayHere Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 And there's a huge differeence between a first year starter and a rookie.. It was his third year in the league and he stepped into a record setting offense w/ the luxury of nobody having tape on him and facing off against a weak schedule. And he proceeded, based on the most sophisticated stat out there, to basically play like Chad heene did this year. haha.. brady's season this year was an all time season as well.. 2,141 DYAR 53.4% DVOA 3,830 Yards 36 TD's 3 INT 66.0% COMP%.. and approximate value is kind of silly stat to use here when you have DVOA and DYAR at your finger tips. I does nothing to consider SOS, and arbitrarely divies up total offensive performance (points per drive and % of passing/rushing yards) points based draft pick value chart. I'm not totally familiar with it, but it seems ridiculously crude I wasn't using it to say that it was the end all be all of stats. Because it isn't. Neither is DVOA or DYAR. Football is a dangerous sport to try and come up with an end all be all stat because nothing occurs on its own. This isn't baseball where the pitcher vs. batter aspect is as close to individual as it gets in team sports. My point was that you crushing Cassel makes no sense. Especially trying to compare it to Brady's 50 TD season. Whether or not Cassel had been in the league or not, it was his first year of playing against actual NFL defenses (or college for that matter). So to act like their is no adjustment period or transition is ludicrous. Not to mention the change in the offense game-planning, etc. I never argued Cassel was as good as Brady, only that you dismissing his season doesn't make any sense. How do you have an "all-time" season in this era of passing and not reach 4000 yards? That makes me a bit skeptical Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 I wasn't using it to say that it was the end all be all of stats. Because it isn't. Neither is DVOA or DYAR. Football is a dangerous sport to try and come up with an end all be all stat because nothing occurs on its own. This isn't baseball where the pitcher vs. batter aspect is as close to individual as it gets in team sports. My point was that you crushing Cassel makes no sense. Especially trying to compare it to Brady's 50 TD season. Whether or not Cassel had been in the league or not, it was his first year of playing against actual NFL defenses (or college for that matter). So to act like their is no adjustment period or transition is ludicrous. Not to mention the change in the offense game-planning, etc. I never argued Cassel was as good as Brady, only that you dismissing his season doesn't make any sense. How do you have an "all-time" season in this era of passing and not reach 4000 yards? That makes me a bit skeptical I'm not crushing cassell, this season proved he has NFL level skills. I'm crushing the notion that Cassell going 11-5 is somehow evidence against Brady being a legit HOF QB. It's just like the spygate nonsense, people use that to denigrate Brady's accomplishments, ignoring the fact that his best statistical years by far have come post "cheating". The guys an all time great, I don't know why it's so hard for some to admit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jets Voice of Reason Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 I'm not crushing cassell, this season proved he has NFL level skills. I'm crushing the notion that Cassell going 11-5 is somehow evidence against Brady being a legit HOF QB. It's just like the spygate nonsense, people use that to denigrate Brady's accomplishments, ignoring the fact that his best statistical years by far have come post "cheating". The guys an all time great, I don't know why it's so hard for some to admit. Klecko called you a nerd for bringing up an advanced metric...That doesn't tell you why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 The guys an all time great, I don't know why it's so hard for some to admit. The part I love is that the designation of who secretly sucks the most keeps changing. It started out that Belichick sucks...but he's bailed out by Brady. Now it's Brady sucks...but he's bailed out by Belichick. For two guys that suck so much, they sure do win a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Klecko called you a nerd for bringing up an advanced metric...That doesn't tell you why? it's klogical Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Klecko called you a nerd for bringing up an advanced metric...That doesn't tell you why? You kind of missed my point there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donboyO Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 The part I love is that the designation of who secretly sucks the most keeps changing. It started out that Belichick sucks...but he's bailed out by Brady. Now it's Brady sucks...but he's bailed out by Belichick. For two guys that suck so much, they sure do win a lot. What have they won without cheating? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 What have they won without cheating? a division title ever year brady has been healthy and the best regular season record in the league over that time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donboyO Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 a division title ever year brady has been healthy and the best regular season record in the league over that time? Division titles mean very little, 1 SB appearance where they were prohibitive favs and lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenranger Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 No way Brady carries a team the way Peyton did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE ILK Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 vs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFSIKH Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 No way Brady carries a team the way Peyton did. Um...did you see this season? Answer these questions. Who would you rather have the Jets or Pats OL? Running backs? Receivers? TEs? OL and RBs are clearly in the Jets favor. Receivers might be a push, but after last week, definetly a Jets' edge. The Patriots' receivers cannot do what Santonio and Braylon can do. The TEs are probably a slight edge to the Pats as the Jets do not have a Gronk and Hernandez has not shown the consistent ability of Keller. Do we need to go into the D that cannot stop a nose bleed? Now, last year.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmikeisback Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Even with all his cheating Brady couldn't hold Manning's jock. HAHA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villain_the_foe Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Brady is a top 5 QB ever hands down. Manning is the greatest QB that I've ever seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Um...did you see this season? Answer these questions. Who would you rather have the Jets or Pats OL? Running backs? Receivers? TEs? OL and RBs are clearly in the Jets favor. Receivers might be a push, but after last week, definetly a Jets' edge. The Patriots' receivers cannot do what Santonio and Braylon can do. The TEs are probably a slight edge to the Pats as the Jets do not have a Gronk and Hernandez has not shown the consistent ability of Keller. Do we need to go into the D that cannot stop a nose bleed? Now, last year.......... The only place the pats are better is TE and QB...QB is obviously the reason you won the division. Whole lotta good it did, however Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFSIKH Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 The only place the pats are better is TE and QB...QB is obviously the reason you won the division. Whole lotta good it did, however That is my point about Brady carrying the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 That is my point about Brady carrying the team. Of course he can. I don't know why you guys would let Jets fans bother you on the topic of brady. He's an alltime great.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFSIKH Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Of course he can. I don't know why you guys would let Jets fans bother you on the topic of brady. He's an alltime great.. It doesn't. It is Sunday and my team is is not playing another meaningful game for eight months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirlancemehlot Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 It doesn't. It is Sunday and my team is is not playing another meaningful game for eight months. What's better...Cheese danish or raspberry? Depends on your taste. I'd take either, personally. Still, I feel Manning is probably the best QB the league has ever seen. He's coach/QB on the field and can put the ball in places very few have ever been able. Brady can succeed with inferior recievers and virtually no runing game. But Brady has the benefit of BB's schemes. Perhaps he could be just as successful as Manning at the QB/coach role--but he's never had to be, and so that intangible tips the scale in Manning's favor in my opinion. Truth is, this is a rare era in which two HOF Qb's have taken the field over several seasons and carried their teams to multiple plyoff appearances. Who's better?--neither is better. There's just who you prefer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 a division title ever year brady has been healthy and the best regular season record in the league over that time? HOW WAS THAT 2002 DIVISION TITLE? OH YES THE JETS WON THAT ONE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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