lets have another Sanchez argument

[CTM]

Perhaps, but I can deal with it considering he still doesn't get a fraction of the worship Chad once did (and for some, still does), and has already done more in his career to earn it than ole JCP. Frankly, I know there are a number of areas he definitely needs to improve on and be more consistent in, but it's still early and from what we've seen so far, I'm cautiously optimistic. If nothing else, at this point I'm still riding the high of being thrilled to have a Jets QB who doesn't sh*t all over himself every time it actually matters.

Given how filled the NFL is with choke-artist QBs these days, I probably wouldn't want a number of the "better" QBs over Sanchez.

this is why we have to nip it in the bud.. if we let klacko run around unchecked he'll build sanchez into montana by august..

[Bleedin Green]

Oh man. Imagine the things Brian Schottenheimer could do with Percy Harvin to make him look average.

I'd bet everything that if Harvin was a Jet he'd look like nothing more than a Brad Smith clone right now.

[Klecko73isGod]

Perhaps, but I can deal with it considering he still doesn't get a fraction of the worship Chad once did (and for some, still does), and has already done more in his career to earn it than ole JCP. Frankly, I know there are a number of areas he definitely needs to improve on and be more consistent in, but it's still early and from what we've seen so far, I'm cautiously optimistic. If nothing else, at this point I'm still riding the high of being thrilled to have a Jets QB who doesn't sh*t all over himself every time it actually matters.

Given how filled the NFL is with choke-artist QBs these days, I probably wouldn't want a number of the "better" QBs over Sanchez.

Great point. Ryan and Flacco immediately come to mind. Hell, you can add Philip Rivers while you're at it.

All three of those guys look great in the regular season and put up impressive numbers but when the playoffs roll around they look like a deer in the headlights.

I don't think that Sanchez will ever put up Rivers-like numbers in the regular season, but I'd rather have him starting for my team on the road in the playoffs.

[Klecko73isGod]

this is why we have to nip it in the bud.. if we let klacko run around unchecked he'll build sanchez into montana by august..

Not taking the bait sparky.

[Damaged89]

I don't think that Sanchez will ever put up Rivers-like numbers in the regular season, but I'd rather have him starting for my team on the road in the playoffs.

Watching Phillip Rivers' facial expressions while the Chargers implode is one of the simple joys of the winter season.

[CTM]

Great point. Ryan and Flacco immediately come to mind. Hell, you can add Philip Rivers while you're at it.

All three of those guys look great in the regular season and put up impressive numbers but when the playoffs roll around they look like a deer in the headlights.

I don't think that Sanchez will ever put up Rivers-like numbers in the regular season, but I'd rather have him starting for my team on the road in the playoffs.

You're nuts. Sanchez isn't nearly proven enough to turn that down.

[T0mShane]

Not taking the bait sparky.

You've gone soft, Joey. I miss your fury.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

If Sanchez can improve his accuracy, sign me up for him. I can live with him not having the greatest arm strength if he would just be more consistently accurate. He throws beautiful balls that are on the money in crunch time, but he also just has those "WTF" throws that aren't really even close.

Using wins to evaluate who is a better QB = dumb. Sure, they're probably the largest factors, but at the end of the day you're looking at a team statistic to evaluate an individual player.

Freeman is physically superior. Sanchez has proven more and has better intangibles. It's not as definitive to me as it is to some of you guys I guess.

[T0mShane]

If Sanchez can improve his accuracy, sign me up for him. I can live with him not having the greatest arm strength if he would just be more consistently accurate. He throws beautiful balls that are on the money in crunch time, but he also just has those "WTF" throws that aren't really even close.

Using wins to evaluate who is a better QB = dumb. Sure, they're probably the largest factors, but at the end of the day you're looking at a team statistic to evaluate an individual player.

Freeman is physically superior. Sanchez has proven more and has better intangibles. It's not as definitive to me as it is to some of you guys I guess.

Well said. After all the garbage we've had at QB, after having to endure almost a decade of post-injury Pennington-related hopelessness, it's actually kind of nice to have a QB that you know can go and win any game in any venue. Sure, the weirdness gets to you, but you'll make that trade. Still, I'm not betting a nickel that Sanchez ends up being a better player than Freeman. That guy has it all.

[Klecko73isGod]

You're nuts. Sanchez isn't nearly proven enough to turn that down.

How many playoff games has Rivers won in his career?

Sanchez may not be a "proven postseason winner" yet (although some may argue that currently holding the All-Time record for most road wins in the postseason after only two years is proof,) what has been proven is that Philip Rivers has developed a Dan Marino-like aversion to performing like he posesses a pair of balls in the postseason.

The guy is a choker, plain and simple. When the playoffs roll around, if Philip Rivers has been able to overcome yet another disastrously awful start to the season to qualify for the tournament, you can be rest assured he'll be bringing his "C" game.

[T0mShane]

The guy is a choker, plain and simple. When the playoffs roll around, if Philip Rivers has been able to overcome yet another disastrously awful start to the season to qualify for the tournament, you can be rest assured he'll be bringing his "C" game.

Norv Turner.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

Norv Turner.

Marty Schottenheimer.

[T0mShane]

Marty Schottenheimer.

One-upper.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

One-upper.

Probably the only context a Schottenheimer has ever been considered an upgrade.

[JohnnyHector]

I don't think that Sanchez will ever put up Rivers-like numbers in the regular season, but I'd rather have him starting for my team on the road in the playoffs.

Call me crazy, but I'd rather see Sanchez eliminate the putrid regular season performances so that the team can actually play a home game in the playoffs.

[Klecko73isGod]

Norv Turner.

Not to defend Norv, but Rivers is the one who's thrown 9 picks in 7 postseason starts against only 8 TDs. His lousy performance is a big reason his team is 3-4 in the postseason in his career.

By comparison, Sanchez Has thrown 9 TDs and only 3 picks in six postseason games. Pretty fair to say he played a role in the Jets going 4-2 in those games.

[Barcs]

Call me crazy, but I'd rather see Sanchez eliminate the putrid regular season performances so that the team can actually play a home game in the playoffs.

So you'd be happier if we got a home playoff game and lost it, rather than getting to the AFC championship 2 years in a row on the road??? Really?

Postseason > Regular season.

Sanchez seems to play better when he's under pressure, which is rare and enough to justify him. 11 wins is often enough to secure a home game in the playoffs. Hell, we had a better record than the 3 and 4 seed home teams, we just had some very tough divisional competition with NE. We'll get there soon enough. For being a 2nd year player with such low experience, Sanchez did very well, especially in the post season, and I expect another big improvement year for him. Last year was all about him taking that leadership role, and he definitely did that. Now he just needs to improve his consistency and we'll be set.

[CTM]

Not to defend Norv, but Rivers is the one who's thrown 9 picks in 7 postseason starts against only 8 TDs. His lousy performance is a big reason his team is 3-4 in the postseason in his career.

By comparison, Sanchez Has thrown 9 TDs and only 3 picks in six postseason games. Pretty fair to say he played a role in the Jets going 4-2 in those games.

wasn't he hurt in some of those games? And i know he's been bounced 2x by Pitts and one by us, all top flight defenses. Prior to Pitts, sanchez hadn't even faced an average defense in the playoffs let alone a good one. And against Pittsburgh, we were out of the game by halftime thanks in part to his putrid first half performance. I'd like to believe that Sanchez is a big game qb as much as the next guy, but it's far from proven. Rivers is a top 5 QB in the league and I'd take him 10 times out of 10 ...

[Klecko73isGod]

wasn't he hurt in some of those games? And i know he's been bounced 2x by Pitts and one by us, all top flight defenses. Prior to Pitts, sanchez hadn't even faced an average defense in the playoffs let alone a good one. And against Pittsburgh, we were out of the game by halftime thanks in part to his putrid first half performance. I'd like to believe that Sanchez is a big game qb as much as the next guy, but it's far from proven. Rivers is a top 5 QB in the league and I'd take him 10 times out of 10 ...

And you'll be without a snowball's chance in hell of winning a Super Bowl because he is a lesser version of Dan Marino.

[JohnnyHector]

So you'd be happier if we got a home playoff game and lost it, rather than getting to the AFC championship 2 years in a row on the road??? Really?

No, I will be happy when the team wins a Super Bowl and the chances of winning 3 straight road playoff games and going on to win the Super Bowl are not particularly good. In the 33 years since the NFL expanded to the current system of 6 playoff teams, it has happened exactly twice.

His performances against Baltimore, Green Bay, and Miami - at home - during last year's regular season were horrific. There is absolutely no excuse for not leading your team on a single TD drive in 3 home games. If you play in a division with a team like NE that wins 10+ games every year, you can't give games away, especially not home games.

Postseason > Regular season.

An amusing tidbit coming from John Starks' #1 fan....

[Barcs]

No, I will be happy when the team wins a Super Bowl and the chances of winning 3 straight road playoff games and going on to win the Super Bowl are not particularly good. In the 33 years since the NFL expanded to the current system of 6 playoff teams, it has happened exactly twice.

His performances against Baltimore, Green Bay, and Miami - at home - during last year's regular season were horrific. There is absolutely no excuse for not leading your team on a single TD drive in 3 home games. If you play in a division with a team like NE that wins 10+ games every year, you can't give games away, especially not home games.

Ok then. I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but you can't win a superbowl without performing well in the post season, home game or not(since you think home game is more important than post season success). Lets see Green Bay and Baltimore. 2 of the best defensive teams in the league. I mean give Sanchez a break, he's only in his second year, he's not going to be playing perfectly against top rated defenses, especially under a complex Schotty system that limits him. He'll have ups and downs, as most 2nd year guys do. Those 2 picks in the Green Bay game weren't even picks, it was poor officiating that cost us that one (plus a Jcro endzone drop). Blaming Sanchez for the lack of physicality from receivers and dropped passes is silly. He didn't have a great game, but you can't lay it all on him. The entire offense bit the big one that game, from the oline, to the running game, to the receivers. I'm pretty sure there were a bunch of drops in the Ravens game as well, but can't remember exactly. He needs to work on his consistency like I mentioned above. It seems like early in the games he struggles and takes a while to find his rhythm. That's his main weakness. Everything else is there.

Don't forget that we were pretty much 1 play away from the superbowl last year, and have had the 2 best back to back seasons in a long time. That has to say something about his future and our future as a team. Last year we won in spite of him. This year we won plenty of games BECAUSE of him. He will improve again this year, I'll bet the farm on it.

An amusing tidbit coming from John Starks' #1 fan....

What's more amusing is that we're talking football, not basketball, and that your comment is completely irrelevant. Carry on.

[Klecko73isGod]

Ok then. I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but you can't win a superbowl without performing well in the post season, home game or not(since you think home game is more important than post season success). Lets see Green Bay and Baltimore. 2 of the best defensive teams in the league. I mean give Sanchez a break, he's only in his second year, he's not going to be playing perfectly against top rated defenses, especially under a complex Schotty system that limits him. He'll have ups and downs, as most 2nd year guys do. Those 2 picks in the Green Bay game weren't even picks, it was poor officiating that cost us that one (plus a Jcro endzone drop). Blaming Sanchez for the lack of physicality from receivers and dropped passes is silly. He didn't have a great game, but you can't lay it all on him. The entire offense bit the big one that game, from the oline, to the running game, to the receivers. He needs to work on his consistency like I mentioned above. It seems like early in the games he struggles and takes a while to find his rhythm. That's his main weakness. Everything else is there.

Don't forget that we were pretty much 1 play away from the superbowl last year, and have had the 2 best back to back seasons in a long time. That has to say something about his future and our future as a team. Last year we won in spite of him. This year we won plenty of games BECAUSE of him. He will improve again this year, I'll bet the farm on it.

What's more amusing is that we're talking football, not basketball.

You can't win an NBA title by going 2 for 18 in Game 7.

[SMC]

The Sanchez and Freeman comparisons will never be apples-to-apples because of where they play. So, as mentioned, we'll never know what Freeman would be under the glaring spotlight of NYC and the benefits of fame in the city. Freeman has his own rep that would make one question whether he could succeed in this environment.

As to Sanchez, of course he has to improve. But there are certain things he's done that you can get excited about. He's already won big games so there is the psychological and physical memory in doing that. For Freeman, his next playoff game will be his first. You don't know how he'll perform.

Just look at Flacco and Ryan. Both have had better statistical seasons than Sanchez, but Ryan hasn't won a playoff game and Flacco is one of the worst postseason performers at QB in the history of the NFL (just look it up, his numbers are atrocious). That's not saying either will continue to spit the bit in the playoffs OR that Sanchez will remain a good postseason performer. Then benefit for all 3 is that they can continue to write their own story.

[SMC]

I have no problem with Sanchez.. I've always been in favor of the pick and the player.. just don't think he's anywhere as good yet as klacko is claiming.. so in that one regard, over-worship, he's becomming too similiar to CP

It's funny that you claim there is "over-worship" with Sanchez like CP when that cannot be further from the truth.

Who is "over-worshipping" Sanchez? A handful of fans? A majority of fans overworshipped CP because of 1 season and 1 home playoff game. That's all it took for them. At least Sanchez has a resume of success to backup the minority of fans that support him.

So it's comical that you feel the need to debate with a minority of fans while before you fought against the majority because of CPF.

[CTM]

It's funny that you claim there is "over-worship" with Sanchez like CP when that cannot be further from the truth.

Who is "over-worshipping" Sanchez? A handful of fans? A majority of fans overworshipped CP because of 1 season and 1 home playoff game. That's all it took for them. At least Sanchez has a resume of success to backup the minority of fans that support him.

So it's comical that you feel the need to debate with a minority of fans while before you fought against the majority because of CPF.

I really don't spend much time debating sanchez though, this thread is mainly just a reason to give klacko a hard time, and he paid off by saying sanchez > rivers.. so it was worth it

[Klecko73isGod]

I really don't spend much time debating sanchez though, this thread is mainly just a reason to give klacko a hard time, and he paid off by saying sanchez > rivers.. so it was worth it

I never said that you crackhead.

[SMC]

I really don't spend much time debating sanchez though, this thread is mainly just a reason to give klacko a hard time, and he paid off by saying sanchez > rivers.. so it was worth it

LOL. Good job creating a strawman.

[JohnnyHector]

Ok then. I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but you can't win a superbowl without performing well in the post season, home game or not(since you think home game is more important than post season success). Lets see Green Bay and Baltimore. 2 of the best defensive teams in the league. I mean give Sanchez a break, he's only in his second year, he's not going to be playing perfectly against top rated defenses, especially under a complex Schotty system that limits him. He'll have ups and downs, as most 2nd year guys do. Those 2 picks in the Green Bay game weren't even picks, it was poor officiating that cost us that one (plus a Jcro endzone drop). Blaming Sanchez for the lack of physicality from receivers and dropped passes is silly. He didn't have a great game, but you can't lay it all on him. The entire offense bit the big one that game, from the oline, to the running game, to the receivers. I'm pretty sure there were a bunch of drops in the Ravens game as well, but can't remember exactly. He needs to work on his consistency like I mentioned above. It seems like early in the games he struggles and takes a while to find his rhythm. That's his main weakness. Everything else is there.

Nicely done in assembling that mighty long list of excuses.

If you want to give the QB all the praise for 4 road playoff wins, then he has to take the lion's share of the blame for not scoring a TD in 3 home games.

[Klecko73isGod]

LOL. Good job creating a strawman.

It would have been, if he wasn't so freakin' obvious about it.

CTM's a shell of his former self, kind of like Tom Brady.

[Matt39]

Football Outsiders > rooting for the Jets.

[bitonti]

If you want to give the QB all the praise for 4 road playoff wins, then he has to take the lion's share of the blame for not scoring a TD in 3 home games.

good thing the Jets dont play home playoff games amirite

[bitonti]

Football Outsiders > rooting for the Jets.

I love their articles but their math is as vulnerable as any bar-room sports fan. the computer might say it's a great idea to never punt on 4th down but the game of football is not played in a computer. there's not enough games played for there to be a meaningful sample size.

Don't get me wrong I love sack stats and a good 40 yard dash as much as the next man but there's a gut instinct about football and it's not replaced by math.

[Matt39]

I love their articles but their math is as vulnerable as any bar-room sports fan. the computer might say it's a great idea to never punt on 4th down but the game of football is not played in a computer. there's not enough games played for there to be a meaningful sample size.

Don't get me wrong I love sack stats and a good 40 yard dash as much as the next man but there's a gut instinct about football and it's not replaced by math.

Yeah I agree...which is why it's hard to argue with people who've already had their mind made up.

Baseball is a lot more concrete than football is. If Sanchez throws for 26 td's and 7 ints this year...then what?

[SMC]

Nicely done in assembling that mighty long list of excuses.

If you want to give the QB all the praise for 4 road playoff wins, then he has to take the lion's share of the blame for not scoring a TD in 3 home games.

The lack of TDs is definately a negative in Sanchez' column, but I can't overlook the Schitty factor.

Schitty really is the X variable in all this. Slats anti-Schitty argument keenly points out the flipside to Schitty proclaiming late in the season that "we decided to run patterns to get Sanchez easier completions." Uhm, why in the **** are you giving your QB harder completions in the first place?

There are times that Sanchez' accuracy is like Robocop after he got the sh*t shot out of him by the Detroit police force, but we seen evidence of WRs quiting on routes or running deep rather can coming back for the ball when Sanchez is forced to scramble. We've seen Holmes lobbying Schitty to call slants. Not call "more slants" but call them in the first place. Instead, Schitty has a fetish for the deep out, which is one of the hardest throws to complete and easiest to intercept. Then we have the situation where Sanchez gets into a rythm and then Schitty calls for the wildcat. How much does all of that play into everything?

[CTM]

I love their articles but their math is as vulnerable as any bar-room sports fan. the computer might say it's a great idea to never punt on 4th down but the game of football is not played in a computer. there's not enough games played for there to be a meaningful sample size.

Don't get me wrong I love sack stats and a good 40 yard dash as much as the next man but there's a gut instinct about football and it's not replaced by math.

hand slapping face thing