The Case Against Herm Edwards

[Jack Straw]

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The Case Against Herm Edwards: Why the 2005 Season Proved that He Should Be Fired.

1) Starting Adrian Jones at Left Tackle. Since being drafted in 2004, Adrian Jones was being groomed to be a Left Tackle by Doug Marrone. Despite this, Herm Starts Jones at Right Tackle at the start of the 2005 season only to see Jason Fabini get manhandled at Left Tackle. It took a Fabini, Pennington, and Fiedler injury to make Hermy realize his mistake. Adrian Jones moves to Left Tackle, his "natural" position and performs pretty well (except for the Miami game, and we all know how Fabini does against Jason Taylor). Fabini moves to the right, only to be lost for the year a few weeks later from an injury.

2) Starting Pete Kendall at Center after Kevin Mawae's injury. Perhaps Herm doesn't understand that there is a reason teams have backups in the NFL. Instead of sticking with backup Center Jonathan Goodwin, Hermy decides to move Pete Kendall to the position, moving Goodwin to Left Guard. Kendall, who hasn't played the position in years, goes on to fumble several QB exchanges. Goodwin plays average, at best, at Left Guard.

3) Not Playing Cedric Houston/Derrick Blaylock Since Week Two after Curtis Martin's Injury. Curtis Martin admitted recently that he was 50% healthy since getting injured in Week Two. Are you telling me that Cedric Houston/Derrick Blaylock at 100% aren't better then Curtis Martin at 50 percent? Curtis Martin is a warrior who always wants to play and help his team win. However, it's a coach's job to determine whether or not a player's desire to play hurt is beneficial to a team winning or not. Herm pounded away at Curtis all year, seemingly refusing to play anybody else; The Result? Once Martin goes on the IR, Houston is finally allowed to display his ability, playing just as well, if not better then Martin.

4) Playing Testaverde instead of Bollinger Herm decided that a 42 year-old QB who was with the team for a 1 1/2 weeks could perform better then a QB who has been on the roster for 3 years. Let's face it: Herm didn't know what Bollinger could bring to the team as a starting QB in the NFL. Shame on you, Herm, for not even trying to find out. Why have Bollinger on the roster if you knew you were never going to play him? Roster spots should be given to players who you think can perform. It's obvious that Herm didn't think Bollinger could perform. It took a Testaverde injury to show that Bollinger can compete with the big boys. Bollinger isn't great, but he's better then Testaverde.

5) Rushing Pennington Back too Soon I attended a Jets practice over the summer and gave this board a recap of my observations. I witnessed a Chad Pennington whose arm was very weak (much weaker then I have ever seen before). I remember saying to myself, "something is wrong with him. He can't be full recovered." This didn't stop Herm from having Pennington practicing two-a-days. Perhaps resting his arm for 2-3 more weeks before the start of training camp would have strengthened the arm and made is less susceptible to future injuries. After all, we did have a newly signed "starter" in Jay Fiedler who could have at least managed games while Pennington recovered. Instead, Herm flushed $64 million of Woody's money down a toilet bowl.

6) Having Justin Miller Return Punts As I said previously, I attended a Jets practice over the summer. I witnessed Justin Miller drop between 8-12 punts in one day. If I can see that Justin Miller can't catch a punt, why can't Herm? Justin Miller goes on to do in games exactly what he did in practice, fumbling nearly every punt that came near him. It wasn't until Miller's punts began costing us regular season games that he was pulled of his duties.

Herm will be back in 2006, guaranteed. Have I ever thought that Herm was a great Head Coach? No, I haven't. In fact, I never liked him from day one, but that's besides the point. But I'm not dumb enough to think that there are many people better suited for the job then him. If we could get Gary Kubiak, Jimmy Johnson, or Steve Mariucci, then I say, go ahead and fire Hermy. However, If you want to bring in a Mike Malarkey type Head Coach, then I say, give me one more year of misery with Herm and wait for a better candidate to emerge. That's all folks.

[PatsFanTX]

Wow, that's a pretty damn good post.

[Savage69]

Wow, that's a pretty damn good post.

Well.. Except for Kendall's name isn't Jason it's Pete!!

[Jack Straw]

Well.. Except for Kendall's name isn't Jason it's Pete!!

LOL... I apologize savage. I think I was watching too much baseball this summer. It's been edited.

[sirlancemehlot]

Don't forget 1st and five in the phins game. Gameday management is not his strong suit.

[Smizzy]

Well.. Except for Kendall's name isn't Jason it's Pete!!

Say's the closet dolphin fan

[Savage69]

Say's the closet dolphin fan

Hey at least I used them as a Port-a-potty!! You should have heard GGG singing the Miami Dolphins song!! Brought tears to my eye's I tell ya!!

[Preston Howley III]

Herm will be back in 2006, guaranteed. Have I ever thought that Herm was a great Head Coach? No, I haven't. In fact, I never liked him from day one, but that's besides the point. But I'm not dumb enough to think that there are many people better suited for the job then him. If we could get Gary Kubiak, Jimmy Johnson, or Steve Mariucci, then I say, go ahead and fire Hermy. However, If you want to bring in a Mike Malarkey type Head Coach, then I say, give me one more year of misery with Herm and wait for a better candidate to emerge. That's all folks.

You forgot to mention getting rid of John Lott, and all the offensive position coaches.

Dude, that was well written. If you were a prosecutor, Herm would be convicted. But alas, the owner-

Woody-y-y-y

could care less. That stuff is going in one ear, and back out the other. Herm gets a complete pass because of "the injuries" (which, as you have articulated so well, are primarily the result of poor management and decisions made by Herm and Bradway).

[BwanaZulia]

1) I am sure the offensive line coach had no say.

2) See #1 AND Pete came in last year and helped out in center.

3) Same old crap over and over (see #7 below)

4) Both have won a game. Please. Vinny came in and won, Bollinger has struggled much more and put eventually won.

5) Chad's injury has nothing to do with his previous injury. If you can't trust the DRs you might as well just give up and go home.

6) Justin needed to have a chance, did he have too many shots? Well, Cotchery had two fumbles in one game.

7) Hindsight is 20/20. You can go over every decision, again and again and again and again and all you will show is that your ability to predict the future only works when you see what happened in the past. It is the going for it on 4th and goal. You get it, and you are a hero for the week, nobody remembers a week later, you miss it and people call that the "game that lost the season".

Jet fans lack perspective.

BZ

[Preston Howley III]

Jet fans lack perspective.

BZ

Herm apologists lack objectivity.

[Jack Straw]

1) I am sure the offensive line coach had no say.

Herm is the Head Coach, all decisions must go through him. So you still haven't explained why the Jets ultimately moved Jones back to the left side? It wasn't until Fabini got banged up and moved over to the right.

See #1 AND Pete came in last year and helped out in center.

I'm sorry, but how many games did Mawae start last year? Don't bother looking it up, he started 16. Jonathan Goodwin took snaps from Center every day in practice, Pete Kendall didn't. What Herm did makes no sense.

Same old crap over and over (see #7 below)

It's not the same crap. Curtis Martin was the rushing champ in 2004 who deserved most of the carries. In 2005, he was an injured, slow, aged Curtis Martin who shouldn't have been playing at 50% with two viable backups at 100%. Please, wake up.

Both have won a game. Please. Vinny came in and won, Bollinger has struggled much more and put eventually won.

Vinny Testaverde: 0 TD's 6 INT's - 8 fumbles, 6 lost

12 Turnovers 54.6 QB rating

Brooks Bollinger: 6 TD's 5 INT's - 2 Fumbles, 0 lost

5 Turnovers

Maybe you want to rethink your "Bollinger has struggled much more" comment. You sound silly.

Chad's injury has nothing to do with his previous injury. If you can't trust the DRs you might as well just give up and go home.

I saw Chad's arm strength with my own two eyes. I stated then that I think he needed more time to heal. I don't need a doctor to show me what a lack of arm strength looks like. Pennington was not an NFL starting QB at the start of 2005 - BOTTOM LINE

Justin needed to have a chance, did he have too many shots? Well, Cotchery had two fumbles in one game.

Justin did need a chance and he got one in practice. If you can't catch a punt in practice, what makes you think he'll be able to do it in a game when players are coming at you at 1000 Miles Per Hour? It's becoming more and more evident as to why you're defending Hermy. You two share striking similarities in logic.

Perhaps you are the one who needs perspective. Just some food for thought.

[GlennFoley]

1) I am sure the offensive line coach had no say.

2) See #1 AND Pete came in last year and helped out in center.

3) Same old crap over and over (see #7 below)

4) Both have won a game. Please. Vinny came in and won, Bollinger has struggled much more and put eventually won.

5) Chad's injury has nothing to do with his previous injury. If you can't trust the DRs you might as well just give up and go home.

6) Justin needed to have a chance, did he have too many shots? Well, Cotchery had two fumbles in one game.

7) Hindsight is 20/20. You can go over every decision, again and again and again and again and all you will show is that your ability to predict the future only works when you see what happened in the past. It is the going for it on 4th and goal. You get it, and you are a hero for the week, nobody remembers a week later, you miss it and people call that the "game that lost the season".

Jet fans lack perspective.

BZ

BZ=Resident Homer

[Jetsfan80]

Allow me to add my 2 cents:

1) I am sure the offensive line coach had no say.

2) See #1 AND Pete came in last year and helped out in center.

3) Same old crap over and over (see #7 below)

4) Both have won a game. Please. Vinny came in and won, Bollinger has struggled much more and put eventually won.

5) Chad's injury has nothing to do with his previous injury. If you can't trust the DRs you might as well just give up and go home.

6) Justin needed to have a chance, did he have too many shots? Well, Cotchery had two fumbles in one game.

7) Hindsight is 20/20. You can go over every decision, again and again and again and again and all you will show is that your ability to predict the future only works when you see what happened in the past. It is the going for it on 4th and goal. You get it, and you are a hero for the week, nobody remembers a week later, you miss it and people call that the "game that lost the season".

Jet fans lack perspective.

BZ

1)BZ, you and Bitonti love to put the blame on the assistants. Put it through your thick skulls: THE BUCK STOPS WITH THE HEAD COACH!

2) Not one player on this line was adequately prepared to play the center position this year if Mawae went down. Hell, even Mawae wasn't, and he's a perennial pro bowler. Hence, all the fumbled snaps.

3) Curtis Martin had just come off a season where he carried the ball nearly 400 times. Any idiot could have seen he needed to be spelled more than ever. Herm didn't do it his 1st 4 years, didn't do it this year, and we're suffering the consequences.

4) Bollinger, when given some freedom to create on offense, has easily out-performed Vinny. He sucks, yes, but when your season is all but done, you don't let a 40+ year old no one wanted to see in a Jets uniform start over a kid who has been on the roster for 4 seasons.

5) Whether or not Chad was CLEARED TO PLAY, he was not MENTALLY PREPARED to come back so soon after surgery. He looked terrible in preseason, and clearly had not grasped the new offense. We brought in Fiedler for the purpose of starting week 1 if Pennington was not ready. Everyone but Herm seemed to see he should have started the season.

6) Our options suck at KR and PR, but you can't force a player to play a position he simply can't play or is not yet ready to play. Once again, this goes back to Herm not having the players ready to go this season.

7) Most of us questioned the decisions made prior to this season, and along the way, questioned Herm's inability to see obvious problems. Simply look back on some of the old threads on this very message board.

You, old man, are the only one who lacks perspective.

[stormshadow19]

BZ=Resident Homer

*sigh* BZ isn't the resident homer. We're all homers, you idiot. He just likes Herm, and takes up for him. There's a huge difference.

[PatsFanTX]

Allow me to add my 2 cents:

1)BZ, you and Bitonti love to put the blame on the assistants. Put it through your thick skulls: THE BUCK STOPS WITH THE HEAD COACH!

2) Not one player on this line was adequately prepared to play the center position this year if Mawae went down. Hell, even Mawae wasn't, and he's a perennial pro bowler. Hence, all the fumbled snaps.

3) Curtis Martin had just come off a season where he carried the ball nearly 400 times. Any idiot could have seen he needed to be spelled more than ever. Herm didn't do it his 1st 4 years, didn't do it this year, and we're suffering the consequences.

4) Bollinger, when given some freedom to create on offense, has easily out-performed Vinny. He sucks, yes, but when your season is all but done, you don't let a 40+ year old no one wanted to see in a Jets uniform start over a kid who has been on the roster for 4 seasons.

5) Whether or not Chad was CLEARED TO PLAY, he was not MENTALLY PREPARED to come back so soon after surgery. He looked terrible in preseason, and clearly had not grasped the new offense. We brought in Fiedler for the purpose of starting week 1 if Pennington was not ready. Everyone but Herm seemed to see he should have started the season.

6) Our options suck at KR and PR, but you can't force a player to play a position he simply can't play or is not yet ready to play. Once again, this goes back to Herm not having the players ready to go this season.

7) Most of us questioned the decisions made prior to this season, and along the way, questioned Herm's inability to see obvious problems. Simply look back on some of the old threads on this very message board.

You, old man, are the only one who lacks perspective.

Wow, please tell me why 80 isn't one of the best posters on this board.

That's the kind of stuff that got me bounced from a few Pats boards.

I love it, call it like it really is.

[GreenBeans]

Wow, please tell me why 80 isn't one of the best posters on this board.

That's the kind of stuff that got me bounced from a few Pats boards.

I love it, call it like it really is.

Mostly because he has one post that makes sense out of every 1000.

Go Seahawks!

[RSJ]

Great post!

[Bugg]

You forgot to mention getting rid of John Lott, and all the offensive position coaches.

Solid posts all around.

Lott had some crazy idea that pro athletes getting paid serious NY Jet coin should be in a strict and supervised workout program during the offseason. Edwards thought getting his $17,500, fruit basket and unlimited minibar per rubber chicken gig in Holiday Inn ballrooms across America was more important than supervising said program. So when Hermie starts whining about injuries, he's putting a knock on his priorities and his MO as much as fate. Because while you can call Fiedler as a fluke, the piss poor condition of this team (along with rushing Pennington back) is a huge problem. And it's on him.

Newsflash Hermie-there isn't much of a demand for "motivational speakers" who go 3-13 and whine like little girls about injuries.

[stormshadow19]

Solid posts all around.

Lott had some crazy idea that pro athletes getting paid serious NY Jet coin should be in a strict and supervised workout program during the offseason. Edwards thought getting his $17,500, fruit basket and unlimited minibar per rubber chicken gig in Holiday Inn ballrooms across America was more important than supervising said program. So when Hermie starts whining about injuries, he's putting a knock on his priorities and his MO as much as fate. Because while you can call Fiedler as a fluke, the piss poor condition of this team (along with rushing Pennington back) is a huge problem. And it's on him.

Newsflash Hermie-there isn't much of a demand for "motivational speakers" who go 3-13 and whine like little girls about injuries.

If I was Woody, and saw the piss poor condition of this team, compared to where it was last year... well, I'd be pissed to no end.

Where's JM with Woodyyyy...

[Jetsfan80]

Mostly because he has one post that makes sense out of every 1000.

Go Seahawks!

When it comes to Herm, it is my responsibility to shoot down anyone who defends him. BZ and Bitonti, especially, just can't let it go. The man was not qualified when we hired him, has supervised over a team that has been overall mediocre, and when the team FINALLY became truly "his" (everything Parcells was gone coming into this season), he has produced a 3-11 joke of a season. WHEN YOU SUCK AT WHAT YOU DO, YOU NEED TO BE FIRED.

By the way, UNCW Seahawks roll again tonight to improve to 9-2. Jump on the bandwagon, you're more than welcome.

[Maxman]

Wow this is a good thread. All valid concerns. He could be fired for any of those. As was also noted the John Lott thing is huge as well. Lott wanted to do it one way. Herm another. Herm got his way and we have like 20 injuries. Doesn't look good.

The Kendall to Center thing really bothers me as well. Losing Kevin was terrible. You can't replace somebody like that. But why do we have to be weaker at 2 positions after moving Pete as well? I don't get it. Nobody saw Goodwin rolling snaps in practice for the past 3 years?

[MiamiJet]

Here's another reason why Herm could be convicted.

Not only was Chad NOT ready to play physically or mentally, especially after a month of throwing, HE DIDN'T KNOW THE OFFENSE!!!!!!

WTF!?!

Chad said it himself. He not only had to "unlearn" Hackett's O, he had to learn a completely new offense, with minimal practice time. Hell, He didn't let loose until July 28th!!!!

Chad also had to play with a line that had to learn a new blocking scheme, and an offense that required deeper drops, and a reversal of the checkdowns that he learned under Hackett.

Idiot Herm puts in his franchise qb, fresh off reconstrucive surgery, into an unsettled O line situation, with little knowlege of the offense. Most qb's say it takes three years. Chad had one month of practice. Prior to that, he just studied. Knowlege is one thing, application is a compeltely different story. Timing and chemisty are vital, something Chad was severely lacking.

There's no way in hell Chad should have started the season. His arm was raw, his mind unsteady, and given the extra burden of having to learn and perform under a new O.

Herm is a fool. We were also fools. The truth stared us dead in the face, and we denied it. Avoided it. We kept telling ourselves that Chad was rusty, or he would be healthy in time.

Bullsh*t. It was as obvious as a woman falling out of love with you. You see the signs but ignore them, hoping it's not true, but knowing deep down inside that something is wrong, not quite the same.

What Herm, or any coach with a brain should have done, was continue to give the majority of snaps to Feidler, and have Bollinger ready as the number two. During the pre season, we all watched as Bolly had to work behind the third string line, with third string recivers and backs. He should have had equal, if not slightly less snaps than Fiedler with the starters.

This is definetly on Herm. That and his ******* refusal to give Martin added rest and more reps to Blaylock and Houston.

How does this look on the inside? Do the players continue to believe in him? Jordan was right for leaving. Why stay when your coach can't keep his promise to give you more time?

Herm's inflexibility has not only cost him games, it cost him his franchise qb, and it will eventually cost him his job.

It already cost Chad his career.

[Preston Howley III]

Here's another reason why Herm could be convicted.

Not only was Chad NOT ready to play physically or mentally, especially after a month of throwing, HE DIDN'T KNOW THE OFFENSE!!!!!!

WTF!?!

Chad said it himself. He not only had to "unlearn" Hackett's O, he had to learn a completely new offense, with minimal practice time. Hell, He didn't let loose until July 28th!!!!

Chad also had to play with a line that had to learn a new blocking scheme, and an offense that required deeper drops, and a reversal of the checkdowns that he learned under Hackett.

Idiot Herm puts in his franchise qb, fresh off reconstrucive surgery, into an unsettled O line situation, with little knowlege of the offense. Most qb's say it takes three years. Chad had one month of practice. Prior to that, he just studied. Knowlege is one thing, application is a compeltely different story. Timing and chemisty are vital, something Chad was severely lacking.

There's no way in hell Chad should have started the season. His arm was raw, his mind unsteady, and given the extra burden of having to learn and perform under a new O.

Herm is a fool. We were also fools. The truth stared us dead in the face, and we denied it. Avoided it. We kept telling ourselves that Chad was rusty, or he would be healthy in time.

Bullsh*t. It was as obvious as a woman falling out of love with you. You see the signs but ignore them, hoping it's not true, but knowing deep down inside that something is wrong, not quite the same.

What Herm, or any coach with a brain should have done, was continue to give the majority of snaps to Feidler, and have Bollinger ready as the number two. During the pre season, we all watched as Bolly had to work behind the third string line, with third string recivers and backs. He should have had equal, if not slightly less snaps than Fiedler with the starters.

This is definetly on Herm. That and his farging refusal to give Martin added rest and more reps to Blaylock and Houston.

How does this look on the inside? Do the players continue to believe in him? Jordan was right for leaving. Why stay when your coach can't keep his promise to give you more time?

Herm's inflexibility has not only cost him games, it cost him his franchise qb, and it will eventually cost him his job.

It already cost Chad his career.

Jay Mohr says you are dumb, and crazy.

[MiamiJet]

Jay Mohr says you are dumb, and crazy.

To each his own.... :wink:

[Preston Howley III]

To each his own.... :wink:

Jay Mohr is a bootlicker and a POS.

[Smizzy]

Jay Mohr is a bootlicker and a POS.

Don't hold back Jm...tell us how you really feel.