Klecko73isGod Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 With an average QB, I think we'd have been in the Super Bowl both years. The Jets played in 4 halves of AFC championship games. Sanchez only showed up for two of them. No we wouldn't have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 No we wouldn't have. You:Sanchez::Bitonti:Gholston Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Check back to 2006. kevin gilbride with manning. The following year (his first full) they won the superbowl. How about in terms of progression? We herd today during the game about Brees. In his third season he was criticized heavily for his lack of production. Whats the difference? Sanchez plays for the New York jets were fans dont have patience. So, the entire fate of this franchise is based on what Eli manning did. Even though Eli looked better than Sanchez, ignoring that it's a one time thing as opposed to every other situation where that doesn't happen. In terms of progression... He hasn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoping4ASuperBowl Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 You don't know that for sure. He has made two starts and done very well in both. Might be the system but it may just be he is a very good QB behind a great one. That might have happened before in Wisconsin. Cassel had a whole year and looked good throwing the Randy Moss and got a big fat contract, hows he looking now? The guy benefited last year with a great OC with Weis. Giving someone a big fat contract based of 2 games is just as retarded as trading up and drafting one that can't even be a game manager. Ah **** it. When you throw enough crap at a wall, one of them is bound to stick right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 You:Sanchez::Bitonti:Gholston Take that back! I didn't like Sanchez coming out because I hate USC and I've posted twice today that his terrible play cost us the postseason this year. Don't insult me like that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 So, the entire fate of this franchise is based on what Eli manning did. Even though Eli looked better than Sanchez, ignoring that it's a one time thing as opposed to every other situation where that doesn't happen. In terms of progression... He hasn't. Actually, Eli put up numbers in his third season that were almost identical to what Sanchez did this year. Its so close its eerie. If anything, Sanchez's was slightly better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Actually, Eli put up numbers in his third season that were almost identical to what Sanchez did this year. Its so close its eerie. If anything, Sanchez's was slightly better. lolololol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Actually, Eli put up numbers in his third season that were almost identical to what Sanchez did this year. Its so close its eerie. If anything, Sanchez's was slightly better. Stats help us quantify things, but they're not the end all be all. Eli's skillset were always better than Sanchez's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Stats help us quantify things, but they're not the end all be all. Eli's skillset were always better than Sanchez's. Now you're basing your argument on "intangibles?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Now you're basing your argument on "intangibles?" No, I'm basing it on the ability to throw a football. A skill Sanchez is missing. Laugh all you want though, bitonti. The best will be when you jump ship on Sanchez pretending either you were here all the time, or that the exact moment you did it was the only appropriate moment to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoping4ASuperBowl Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Stats help us quantify things, but they're not the end all be all. Eli's skillset were always better than Sanchez's. But but we traded up to the #5 spot because he had such an awesome career (one year) at USC. He must be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 lolololol Eli: 301 of 522, 57.7%, 3,244 yards, 24 TD, 18 INT Mark: 308 of 543, 56.7%, 3,474 yards, 26 TD, 18 INT Eerily similar numbers. Their first and second years were close too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 No, I'm basing it on the ability to throw a football. A skill Sanchez is missing. Laugh all you want though, bitonti. The best will be when you jump ship on Sanchez pretending either you were here all the time, or that the exact moment you did it was the only appropriate moment to do so. Wow, you're myopic. I've criticized Sanchez's play in this thread, on this page. I will again later in this post. If your argument is now that Eli and Sanchez put up very similar numbers in their third years even though Eli had much better physical tools then that must mean that Sanchez made much better decisions because he had to in order to have the same level of success. Anyone who watched Sanchez this year can tell you that he wasn't all that great at making decisions so I must conclude that you are creating a strawman argument based on nothing because you have nothing TANGIBLE to bring to the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 But but we traded up to the #5 spot because he had such an awesome career (one year) at USC. He must be good. It's more like. But I don't want to admit we busted again in the top 10, and I really wanted him to be good, so he must be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Eli: 301 of 522, 57.7%, 3,244 yards, 24 TD, 18 INT Mark: 308 of 543, 56.7%, 3,474 yards, 26 TD, 18 INT Eerily similar numbers. Their first and second years were close too. More good news: Sanchez's numbers DESTROY Troy Aikman's third year numbers! Sanchez is not the level of prospect, nor was he ever the level of prospect, that Eli was. Sanchez was fortunate to be involved in a putrid draft class for QBs, where he edged out Josh Freeman, Pat White and Stephen McGee to be the second QB picked. It's cool that the numbers from this one point in time are similar, my friend, but there is no guarantee, nor is it likely, that Sanchez's ceiling is anywhere near what Eli's was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Wow, you're myopic. I've criticized Sanchez's play in this thread, on this page. I will again later in this post. If your argument is now that Eli and Sanchez put up very similar numbers in their third years even though Eli had much better physical tools than that must mean that Sanchez made much better decisions because he had to in order to have the same level of success. Anyone who watched Sanchez this year can tell you that he wasn't all that great at making decisions so I must conclude that you are creating a strawman argument based on nothing because you have nothing TANGIBLE to bring to the table. Nope. That's where playcalling comes in. We've done everything in our power to hide Sanchez and make things easy for him. In our 3 game winning streak, where he looked successful, he barely threw the ball over 10 yards in the air. Further, I'd love to know if Eli ever had a game where there was one completion to a WR in the half. Schotty and Rex run Sanchez out there in diapers. And............. He still sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 More good news: Sanchez's numbers DESTROY Troy Aikman's third year numbers! Sanchez is not the level of prospect, nor was he ever the level of prospect, that Eli was. Sanchez was fortunate to be involved in a putrid draft class for QBs, where he edged out Josh Freeman, Pat White and Stephen McGee to be the second QB picked. It's cool that the numbers from this one point in time are similar, my friend, but there is no guarantee, nor is it likely, that Sanchez's ceiling is anywhere near what Eli's was. Nor is there any proof that Eli has some kind of magical arm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Nope. That's where playcalling comes in. We've done everything in our power to hide Sanchez and make things easy for him. In our 3 game winning streak, where he looked successful, he barely threw the ball over 10 yards in the air. Further, I'd love to know if Eli ever had a game where there was one completion to a WR in the half. Schotty and Rex run Sanchez out there in diapers. And............. He still sucks. Please tell me you didn't have a straight face when you posted that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Please tell me you didn't have a straight face when you posted that. Do you have a point to make? Was Eli ever in an offense designed to make him just about obsolete? That's not a commentary on Schotty at all, it's a statement of what our offense is built to do, and that's eliminate the impact of the QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Do you have a point to make? Was Eli ever in an offense designed to make him just about obsolete? That's not a commentary on Schotty at all, it's a statement of what our offense is built to do, and that's eliminate the impact of the QB. I've made several points backed by actual numbers in this thread, have you? My overall point is this: whether you like him or not, Sanchez ain't going anywhere. He will be our starter next year. Considering that, I think the best course of action is to get him a new OC and QB coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMC Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Nope. That's where playcalling comes in. We've done everything in our power to hide Sanchez and make things easy for him. In our 3 game winning streak, where he looked successful, he barely threw the ball over 10 yards in the air. Further, I'd love to know if Eli ever had a game where there was one completion to a WR in the half. Schotty and Rex run Sanchez out there in diapers. And............. He still sucks. Actually, on 12/24/06 (Eli's 3rd year) he had a game where he was 9/25 for 75 yds with only 3 completions TOTAL to WRs the entire game--1 to Plax, Moss, and Carter each. His WR completions all happened in 1st half. It's obvious neither you, Tom, etc. know how freakin bad Eli had been at times in his first 3 years. That doesn't equate to Sanchez following the same path, but just demonstrates that you ignore facts to fit your argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Actually, on 12/24/06 (Eli's 3rd year) he had a game where he was 9/25 for 75 yds with only 3 completions TOTAL to WRs the entire game--1 to Plax, Moss, and Carter each. His WR completions all happened in 1st half. It's obvious neither you, Tom, etc. know how freakin bad Eli had been at times in his first 3 years. That doesn't equate to Sanchez following the same path, but just demonstrates that you ignore facts to fit your argument. Holy ownership Batman! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 I've made several points backed by actual numbers in this thread, have you? My overall point is this: whether you like him or not, Sanchez ain't going anywhere. He will be our starter next year. Considering that, I think the best course of action is to get him a new OC and QB coach. Where are your numbers that prove that Eli's path will be Sanchez's. Because you're entire argument hinges on the comparison you're making actually meaning something. Honestly, your responses to me in any conversation about him should begin with little more than, "Eric, you were right all year long". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Where are your numbers that prove that Eli's path will be Sanchez's. Because you're entire argument hinges on the comparison you're making actually meaning something. Honestly, your responses to me in any conversation about him should begin with little more than, "Eric, you were right all year long". Read the thread kid. I've posted them. Jeez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Eli: 301 of 522, 57.7%, 3,244 yards, 24 TD, 18 INT Mark: 308 of 543, 56.7%, 3,474 yards, 26 TD, 18 INT Eerily similar numbers. Their first and second years were close too. Sanchez has been in a much better position then Eli was put in, think about if Cleveland stayed put and drafted Sanchez.. what do his numbers look like then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Actually, on 12/24/06 (Eli's 3rd year) he had a game where he was 9/25 for 75 yds with only 3 completions TOTAL to WRs the entire game--1 to Plax, Moss, and Carter each. His WR completions all happened in 1st half. It's obvious neither you, Tom, etc. know how freakin bad Eli had been at times in his first 3 years. That doesn't equate to Sanchez following the same path, but just demonstrates that you ignore facts to fit your argument. I didn't remember that game... obviously. But my point with regards to Eli is we saw more upside from him than we do from Sanchez. Sanchez's best games aren't really that good. But ultimately, at least you acknowledge that comparisons to Eli mean absolutely nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Read the thread kid. I've posted them. Jeez. Re-post the part where you demonstrate that Eli Manning's career arc has any affect on Sanchez's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Re-post the part where you demonstrate that Eli Manning's career arc has any affect on Sanchez's. Not for nothing, but I'm not the one who brought Eli up. I was responding to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMC Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 I didn't remember that game... obviously. But my point with regards to Eli is we saw more upside from him than we do from Sanchez. Sanchez's best games aren't really that good. But ultimately, at least you acknowledge that comparisons to Eli mean absolutely nothing. You didn't remember that game because you weren't paying attention to Eli then. And your point is misguided because we didn't see more upside from Eli back then. I'm not a Giant hater so I watch as many Giant games as I can. Also, all my friends are Giant fans and it was hilarious, in retrospect, listening to them whine about Eli. IN FACT, I know many Giant fans in Eli's 1st 3 yrs who actually wanted Chad instead, specifically in 2006 when the Jets were going 10-6 and the Giants were going 8-8. I kept on telling them that they were nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Actually, on 12/24/06 (Eli's 3rd year) he had a game where he was 9/25 for 75 yds with only 3 completions TOTAL to WRs the entire game--1 to Plax, Moss, and Carter each. His WR completions to Moss and Carter happened in the 1st half while his Plax completion happened in the 2nd half. It's obvious neither you, Tom, etc. know how freakin bad Eli had been at times in his first 3 years. That doesn't equate to Sanchez following the same path, but just demonstrates that you ignore facts to fit your argument. Dude, I've seen every game of Eli's career. I watched his five interception train wreck versus the Vikings that, I kid you not, I thought was going to drive him to suicide. I know what the numbers say, and I know that Eli took a long time to come along. I just don't think you're talking about the same type of player with Sanchez. The flaws are different--the holes in their game are different. From a distance, it looks like Sanchez's challenges are more cognitive. I don't think he processes information quickly, which I'm not sure you can "fix." Eli's issues were always going to be experience-based. Once the light went on, he was going to be who he is. If Sanchez is ever going to be at Eli's level, it's going to be because he's plugged into a really clever offensive system a la the one Rich Gannon was in in Oakland. Play action off of a dominant run game, a lot of roll-outs and pocket movement with limited reads. Be honest--can you imagine Sanchez ever trying to do what Eli does with that NYG offense? Four, five wides, option routes, no run game. Every yard they get is off of Eli's right arm (for better or worse). I don't think it's even a knock on Sanchez to say that he's not an Eli-level prospect. You're talking about comparing him to a guy who is maybe the fifth or sixth best QB in the game. Again, not saying that Sanchez will suck forever. Just that looking at Sanchez's career arc and hoping it follows Eli's is dicey at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Not for nothing, but I'm not the one who brought Eli up. I was responding to you. I wasn't the first to bring him up, because I've consistently said that comparison means nothing. You tried to demonstrate that their career arcs are similar, meaning that Eli's development must have some corollary to sanchez's. I'm excited to see that link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMC Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Dude, I've seen every game of Eli's career. I watched his five interception train wreck versus the Vikings that, I kid you not, I thought was going to drive him to suicide. I know what the numbers say, and I know that Eli took a long time to come along. I just don't think you're talking about the same type of player with Sanchez. The flaws are different--the holes in their game are different. From a distance, it looks like Sanchez's challenges are more cognitive. I don't think he processes information quickly, which I'm not sure you can "fix." Eli's issues were always going to be experience-based. Once the light went on, he was going to be who he is. If Sanchez is ever going to be at Eli's level, it's going to be because he's plugged into a really clever offensive system a la the one Rich Gannon was in in Oakland. Play action off of a dominant run game, a lot of roll-outs and pocket movement with limited reads. Be honest--can you imagine Sanchez ever trying to do what Eli does with that NYG offense? Four, five wides, option routes, no run game. Every yard they get is off of Eli's right arm (for better or worse). I don't think it's even a knock on Sanchez to say that he's not an Eli-level prospect. You're talking about comparing him to a guy who is maybe the fifth or sixth best QB in the game. Again, not saying that Sanchez will suck forever. Just that looking at Sanchez's career arc and hoping it follows Eli's is dicey at best. Eli wasn't doing the 4, 5 wides, option routes, no run game, in 2004, 05, and 06. In fact, he had the benefit of all-purpose yardage leader in Tiki Barber back then and still sucked. How in the hell can you ignore that???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 I wasn't the first to bring him up, because I've consistently said that comparison means nothing. You tried to demonstrate that their career arcs are similar, meaning that Eli's development must have some corollary to sanchez's. I'm excited to see that link. Their career arcs are similar. They have put up very similar numbers in each of their first three years. Of course the fact that Eli turned it around doesn't mean that Sanchez will. But the starts to their career have been similar and Eli turned it around with a new OC. By the way, SMC is completely destroying you in this thread, much worse than I have been. And you can claim victory all you want but all I know is the first guy to resort to personal insults is usually the loser of the debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 You didn't remember that game because you weren't paying attention to Eli then. And your point is misguided because we didn't see more upside from Eli back then. I'm not a Giant hater so I watch as many Giant games as I can. Also, all my friends are Giant fans and it was hilarious, in retrospect, listening to them whine about Eli. IN FACT, I know many Giant fans in Eli's 1st 3 yrs who actually wanted Chad instead, specifically in 2006 when the Jets were going 10-6 and the Giants were going 8-8. I kept on telling them that they were nuts. All true, Eli was a debacle (and he's still not elite imo) .... But it is true that Eli had a much better college pedigree, Sanchez has a pedigree much more akin to Akili Smith and Joey Harrington and any number of 1 year wonders who fled to the draft to cash in after thier big season.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 All true, Eli was a debacle (and he's still not elite imo) .... But it is true that Eli had a much better college pedigree, Sanchez has a pedigree much more akin to Akili Smith and Joey Harrington and any number of 1 year wonders who fled to the draft to cash in after thier big season.. Aren't you just making the same argument in reverse by bringing up Harrington and Smith? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.