Jets GM Non-Committal About Burress' Return

[Freemanm]

I think he's worried about busting on a 1st round WR.

I second that. Anyone remember a guy named Keyshawn Johnson?

[#27TheDominator]

I agree that he's more complimentary at this point, but that's not my problem with him as our #2, but because he is a bit of a lazy dog on routes like Holmes. I want guys to bust their a$$ and if he's going to be on the field he'd better. I want 11 guys going like Maybin.

What this means is that they want him back, but they aren't paying him 3 million. Vets Min, and he's back

I agree. I don't even have a problem with the $3M, but I'd be worried to go more than a couple of years.

We haven't drafted a WR in the first 3 rounds in 10 years cause we don't have a damn clue how to evaluate and develop a WR. The last good WR we drafted was Coles.

Or maybe because they had Coles, Moss and Cotchery drafted in the early rounds and at least one or two around forever? Why do you need to draft WRs when you have them already? People love the big splash, but the position hasn't been a problem all that time and plenty of sh*tty WRs were taken. Think you guys wouldn't have been calling for Meachem's head? .

[Sperm Edwards]

I second that. Anyone remember a guy named Keyshawn Johnson?

The only truly top-end WR prospect we've had a shot at, in the Tannenbaum era, was Bowe. We traded up for Revis instead. Maybe Bryant if we traded up but we had just acquired Edwards & Holmes in back-to-back years.

[MTJ06]

I agree that he's more complimentary at this point, but that's not my problem with him as our #2, but because he is a bit of a lazy dog on routes like Holmes. I want guys to bust their a$$ and if he's going to be on the field he'd better. I want 11 guys going like Maybin.

I agree. I don't even have a problem with the $3M, but I'd be worried to go more than a couple of years.

Or maybe because they had Coles, Moss and Cotchery drafted in the early rounds and at least one or two around forever? Why do you need to draft WRs when you have them already? People love the big splash, but the position hasn't been a problem all that time and plenty of sh*tty WRs were taken. Think you guys wouldn't have been calling for Meachem's head? .

None of those guys is a #1 receiver, and as you say we had 1 or 2 of them around, most teams have alot more depth than that.

[Freemanm]

Who's in the draft for a credible RB or O lineman? I think the Jets should dump LT and his $6 million or whatever per year contract. Shonn Greene is not the dynamic RB that we all thought he would be. I know he had over 1,000 yards this season and averaged about 4.1 ypc, but I think most would agree that he's not really a playmaker - he's only as good as the OL in front of him. Get another RB who can platoon with Greene and who can also grind out 4 ypc. Rex wants this to be a ground n' pound team, so I think they should either go with a RB or an OL in the first round. Or, as I said in another thread, hit the FA market hard. Eben Britton on the Jags is due to be a FA this off-season. I know he had a lot of injuries this past season, but that might make him an undervalued player. He's only 24 and would be, in my opinion, a perfect long-term solution to replace Wayne Hunter. He also grew up in Brooklyn and might want to come back to NY. At G, Carl Nicks from the Saints or Ben Grubbs from the Ravens (both FA's after this season) would be super exensive signings, but the Jets could probably make room for one of them if they get rid of Brandon Moore and Santonio Holmes.

[hoping4ASuperBowl]

I agree that he's more complimentary at this point, but that's not my problem with him as our #2, but because he is a bit of a lazy dog on routes like Holmes. I want guys to bust their a$$ and if he's going to be on the field he'd better. I want 11 guys going like Maybin.

I agree. I don't even have a problem with the $3M, but I'd be worried to go more than a couple of years.

Or maybe because they had Coles, Moss and Cotchery drafted in the early rounds and at least one or two around forever? Why do you need to draft WRs when you have them already? People love the big splash, but the position hasn't been a problem all that time and plenty of sh*tty WRs were taken. Think you guys wouldn't have been calling for Meachem's head? .

I thought Rex and Tanny's mentality was to try and improve at every position every year. They've drafted WR's recently but somewhere between the 4th and 7th recently, and they've all turned out to be scrubs. I'm not saying we need to need to draft high often, but it's almost like the safety position where they generally work with what they got or put some scrub or JAG in there. Maybe once they could try and grab a WR somewhere above the 3rd round or throw in a player like a Nicks or Bryant. Tanny likes to trade up for other positions like CB, LB, and TE, why not try it for WR also?

[Sperm Edwards]

I thought Rex and Tanny's mentality was to try and improve at every position every year. They've drafted WR's recently but somewhere between the 4th and 7th recently, and they've all turned out to be scrubs. I'm not saying we need to need to draft high often, but it's almost like the safety position where they generally work with what they got or put some scrub or JAG in there. Maybe once they could try and grab a WR somewhere above the 3rd round or throw in a player like a Nicks or Bryant. Tanny likes to trade up for other positions like CB, LB, and TE, why not try it for WR also?

I've been guilty of this also, but you only want them to try on a WR like Nicks or Bryant, meaning you only want them to try for WRs who it later turns out were not bad picks.

Heyward-Bey, Avery, Ginn, Craig Davis, Chad Jackson...these guys all carried first round grades as well.

[hoping4ASuperBowl]

I've been guilty of this also, but you only want them to try on a WR like Nicks or Bryant, meaning you only want them to try for WRs who it later turns out were not bad picks.

Heyward-Bey, Avery, Ginn, Craig Davis, Chad Jackson...these guys all carried first round grades as well.

Yeah but we haven't even tried drafting a WR in the 1st or 2nd round since 2001. At least give it a shot. Any position is sure to have its share of stinkers in the 1st round, but denying the chance to grab a WR in the first round that is right there for us to draft is just as reckless and silly as them not drafting a safety since 2005. At least give a try.

[#27TheDominator]

Yeah but we haven't even tried drafting a WR in the 1st or 2nd round since 2001. At least give it a shot. Any position is sure to have its share of stinkers in the 1st round, but denying the chance to grab a WR in the first round that is right there for us to draft is just as reckless and silly as them not drafting a safety since 2005. At least give a try.

You don't pick a position. You pick a player. If the best pick is a tackle every year, you probably should be picking tackle. The Jets have done fairly well with their sh*tty safeties and the Jets certainly have made WR a priority. Tannenbaum has been trading up for guys who he really likes and he has a very good record - Revis, Keller, Clemens, Sanchez, Greene and Harris. They aren't all sure things, but he probably hasn't felt that way about a WR. Not sure what you mean about drafting a safety since 2005, they picked Eric Smith in 2006.

[Bleedin Green]

You don't pick a position. You pick a player. If the best pick is a tackle every year, you probably should be picking tackle. The Jets have done fairly well with their sh*tty safeties and the Jets certainly have made WR a priority. Tannenbaum has been trading up for guys who he really likes and he has a very good record - Revis, Keller, Clemens, Sanchez, Greene and Harris. They aren't all sure things, but he probably hasn't felt that way about a WR. Not sure what you mean about drafting a safety since 2005, they picked Eric Smith in 2006.

Yeah, but did they draft someone who can play safety in 2006?

[jetsjetsjetss]

nah forget drafting a early round WR we do not need it. A 5th rounder who is fast would be nice though. Lets go get some speed.

[hoping4ASuperBowl]

You don't pick a position. You pick a player. If the best pick is a tackle every year, you probably should be picking tackle. The Jets have done fairly well with their sh*tty safeties and the Jets certainly have made WR a priority. Tannenbaum has been trading up for guys who he really likes and he has a very good record - Revis, Keller, Clemens, Sanchez, Greene and Harris. They aren't all sure things, but he probably hasn't felt that way about a WR. Not sure what you mean about drafting a safety since 2005, they picked Eric Smith in 2006.

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind when they traded up for guys like Revis and them, some of them work out, some don't. I just find it strange that they haven't seen one WR they like enough to draft somewhat high recently.

You're right about Smith, I forgot we drafted him in 2006. I just saw him listed as DB and I missed it cause I was looking for FS or SS.

[jason423]

Yeah but we haven't even tried drafting a WR in the 1st or 2nd round since 2001. At least give it a shot. Any position is sure to have its share of stinkers in the 1st round, but denying the chance to grab a WR in the first round that is right there for us to draft is just as reckless and silly as them not drafting a safety since 2005. At least give a try.

The amount of WRs who bust in the first round makes its an awful value pick. Maybe it is not as brutal now since the salaries are lower, but its around 60% complete flops and very few pay off big.

[hoping4ASuperBowl]

The amount of WRs who bust in the first round makes its an awful value pick. Maybe it is not as brutal now since the salaries are lower, but its around 60% complete flops and very few pay off big.

Yeah and what's the bust rate for QB's in the first round? Or DE's that team's try to convert to OLB? It's a risk no matter how you put it. I'm simply saying why doesn't Tanny take the chance considering how willing he was to trade up to draft Sanchez. 3 years later and were still not sure if he is the franchise QB we drafted, but drafting a WR high is too risky?

[jack48]

I know he gets a lot of negative publicity, but in my opinon Burress did what he was supposed to do this past season, and that was to be a red-zone specialist (8 TD catches). I don't know what his asking price is, but I think we do still need a playmaker in the red zone to take coverage off of Keller. his importance is underscored by the fact that, for obvious reasons, Homes probably won't be back.

_________________________________________________

Jets GM Non-Committal About Burress' Return

New York Jets general manager Mike Tannenbaum praised the efforts of wide receiver Plaxico Burress this season, but would not say for sure whether the formerly incarcerated wide out would be back in 2012,

according to the New York Daily News.

“He did a great job for us,” Tannenbaum told the paper. “I thought his blocking, he did a really good job with that. Obviously, he helped us in the red zone. . . . And he was a real pro.

“He’s really an interesting guy and he was a really good teammate. Free agency is a couple of months away, and we’ll look at everything.”

Burress signed a one-year, $3 million guaranteed deal with the Jets after spending two years in prison for criminal possession of a weapon and reckless endangerment. The charges stemmed from an incident in a New York night club where the wide receiver accidently shot himself in the leg when a firearm he was carrying in his sweatpants misfired.

Prior to his arrest, he was considered to be one of the better players at his position in the NFL.

In 2011 Burress, 34, recorded 45 receptions and eight touchdowns in 16 games for New York.

If Sanchez could actually throw a back shoulder pass, Plax would have had a good season.

[Sperm Edwards]

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind when they traded up for guys like Revis and them, some of them work out, some don't. I just find it strange that they haven't seen one WR they like enough to draft somewhat high recently.

You're right about Smith, I forgot we drafted him in 2006. I just saw him listed as DB and I missed it cause I was looking for FS or SS.

They felt it was better value to trade a 3rd & a 5th for Braylon Edwards and take a shot on him, then follow that up with trading a 5th for Santonio Holmes and take a shot at him as well. These were low risk high reward uses of draft picks at the WR position. Each of them was a former 1st round pick, each was still in their 20s, and each of them was either a former pro bowl WR or superbowl MVP WR. Holmes ceased to be that when he was given a huge guaranteed amount, of course.

But we got two first round WRs in their prime, neither of whom was remotely a total bust. We used a 3rd & two 5th rounders for them.

Your position suggests that it's only considered investment in the position, through the draft, if we burn a 1st round pick on one (which carries at least a 50% complete and total flop bust risk with it).

I think their strategy was sound. It didn't work out incredibly well (though I'm sure the moves would have looked way, way better with a decent QB). But drafting a WR in round 1 doesn't typically work out incredibly well either.

[jason423]

Yeah and what's the bust rate for QB's in the first round? Or DE's that team's try to convert to OLB? It's a risk no matter how you put it. I'm simply saying why doesn't Tanny take the chance considering how willing he was to trade up to draft Sanchez. 3 years later and were still not sure if he is the franchise QB we drafted, but drafting a WR high is too risky?

Depends on where they are drafted. I did a study of drafts over a 10 year period by round and position. QBs are worth the top 11 selection, not worth it beyond that except developmental prospects. QBs in the top 10 were 53% busts (number is higher now since Russell, Leinart, etc...are there and Im not sure there have been a ton of hits). Of the busts the only one to start a playoff game was Leftwich, most never win. Of the non-busts all made the playoffs at least once and most make a championship game. At the time all but 2 of the day 1 draft selections were the NFC or AFC Championship game representatives were from the top 11 in the draft. The rest of round one only produced something like 15% "good players" the best at the time was Chad (now its most definitely Rodgers). So the rule of thumb would be that the reward is so high that you draft a QB high or wait for developmental prospects.

I dont buy the DE converting to OLB excuse. Gholston just could not play. Neither DE nor LB are difficult transition positions from college to the pros and you should be able to play both depending on the defensive scheme unless the DE is strictly being told to play pass. The problem with the DEs is that there is ormally no middle ground. I had them rated at 30% busts 60% good players out of the top 10. The 30% busts were just like Gholston- cut within 3 seasons. The reason you take a chance is because the non-busts often are part of playing in or winning a Super Bowl.

The big issue with the WR is not only are they the most risky pick, but even those who are great dont usually help. At the time it was 56% pure busts in the top 10. Only Torry Holt played in a SB with his drafting team. Burress was the only other guy to have success with his original squad (championship games with Pittsburgh). Fitzgerald would be added to the list now. None of the others even made the playoffs with the team that drafted them. None. That has changed now with guys like Megatron, but there is still no guarantee those teams are going anywhere. 64% of those outside the top 10 busted. Wayne and Moss were the only guys selected to multiple Pro Bowls. Roddy White would be added to the list now.

[hoping4ASuperBowl]

They felt it was better value to trade a 3rd & a 5th for Braylon Edwards and take a shot on him, then follow that up with trading a 5th for Santonio Holmes and take a shot at him as well. These were low risk high reward uses of draft picks at the WR position. Each of them was a former 1st round pick, each was still in their 20s, and each of them was either a former pro bowl WR or superbowl MVP WR. Holmes ceased to be that when he was given a huge guaranteed amount, of course.

But we got two first round WRs in their prime, neither of whom was remotely a total bust. We used a 3rd & two 5th rounders for them.

Your position suggests that it's only considered investment in the position, through the draft, if we burn a 1st round pick on one (which carries at least a 50% complete and total flop bust risk with it).

I think their strategy was sound. It didn't work out incredibly well (though I'm sure the moves would have looked way, way better with a decent QB). But drafting a WR in round 1 doesn't typically work out incredibly well either.

All valid points. A 3rd and 5th for BE doesn't sound bad, but it was only a one year deal and we basically replaced him with Plax, who was great in the red zone, but not much of anything outside of it. I consider anything an investment when can try and develop the player at their position over the course of some years. BE was a one year deal, Plax is another one year deal most likely. Kerley is just starting but I like what I saw for the most part this yeah (except for the muffed punts).

A better QB would definitely help. I'm sure Sanchez wouldn't be any better if we took all of Green Bay's or N.O.'s receivers and put them on the Jets. It's still the same QB so the result won't be much different. Sadly we are gonna have to wait at least one more year to find out of Sanchez is still our franchise QB. So what do we do in the meantime to make the most of it?

[#27TheDominator]

All valid points. A 3rd and 5th for BE doesn't sound bad, but it was only a one year deal and we basically replaced him with Plax, who was great in the red zone, but not much of anything outside of it. I consider anything an investment when can try and develop the player at their position over the course of some years. BE was a one year deal, Plax is another one year deal most likely. Kerley is just starting but I like what I saw for the most part this yeah (except for the muffed punts).

A better QB would definitely help. I'm sure Sanchez wouldn't be any better if we took all of Green Bay's or N.O.'s receivers and put them on the Jets. It's still the same QB so the result won't be much different. Sadly we are gonna have to wait at least one more year to find out of Sanchez is still our franchise QB. So what do we do in the meantime to make the most of it?

We had Edwards for more than a year. IIRC he was a(n) RFA and we kept him dirt cheap in 2010. The unfortunate thing is that he apparently was cheap in 2011 too.