Il Mostro Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I question the accuracy of that evaluation. There were games where Brick looked like a turnstile -- starting with being beaten like a rented mule by Ware in game 1. He was badly beaten more this past season than any time in the past. However, I do think he will come back strong next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Every player on the team would say yes to a restructure like this, it doesn't change his current years salary, it just gives him a lump sum check now instead of it being spread out, it also gives the player security, it makes it more difficult to cut someone that does this because of the cap ramifications on the team in the future. A guy like Cro is not the player you want to be guaranteeing more money on his cap hit 3 years down the road, their are only a couple of players you would/should due this with, the Jets last year did it with a couple of guys they probably shouldn't have in Bart Scott, and Calvin Pace, it raised the cap hit for cutting them this year, but freed up money on last years cap when the Jets were going for broke to win a SB, it didn't pay off, and now the team is stuck with those players regardless. This type of restructure is bad business for the longterm with most players, DBrick not being one of those players thou IMO, so this is a great move. Another guy to due this with would be Harris, but unfortunately it can't be done till July so it won't help us this season, look for 2013's first offseason move to be this with Harris. Other players who I would be fine with doing a cap move like this, Revis, Mangold, and Sanchez (if THE FRONT OFFICE believes he is the QB for 2012, and 2013. Might as well save the cap space now with him to get more pieces to help the Jets win. Like I said front offices opinion no one else's, if they believe this then it's a no brainer). There is no other player on the roster that I would be comfortable restructuring, that is worth restructuring, IE Holmes, and Cro, they can't be trusted to be here through their whole contract, and still be helping the team. I pretty much agree with all of this except for trusting Revis with this type of move. He's most likely here for the long haul, but he's put himself past the point of giving him any benefit of the doubt when it comes to money. The man cannot be trusted to honor his contract, and so he absolutely should not be given a cent of it before he's currently scheduled to. If anything, Revis' current contract is built to try to keep giving him incentive to stick with it, where as handing him a big check and reducing his future payouts is pretty much like saying to him "hold out again, please". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 There were games where Brick looked like a turnstile -- starting with being beaten like a rented mule by Ware in game 1. He was badly beaten more this past season than any time in the past. However, I do think he will come back strong next season. Agreed. I think Brick is a great player and will be just fine, but I don't know how anyone can reasonably say he didn't struggle last year. Easily his worst season since his rookie year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GATA Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I can see everyone doing it, except Cro. Then again, he did come here cause this is where he wanted to be... supposedly. Antonio C. won't do it he has like 20 families to feed. On the topic at hand that was awesome of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denden29 Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 You SHUT UP. The Jets have the least amount of cap space in the division! HAVEN'T YOU HEARD????!!!!!?????? They actually still do: Jets: $8 Million Phins: $12 Million Bills: $34 Million Pats: $22-25 Million but they still have 16 of their own FA to possibly sign and their draft class so more moves are coming. Even the move made was discussed in the forum. The fact is the other AFC east teams will likely have more to spend then the Jets but the Bills never spend and the Dolphins will have similar to us. It’s the Pats that worry me, they will have more to spend and I feel like they will go for broke the next few years in FA and the draft. What good is making the playoffs every year if you don’t win the Super Bowl? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denden29 Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Antonio C. won't do it he has like 20 families to feed. On the topic at hand that was awesome of him. The Jets are going to move money into 2014 for Cromartie to get 2012/13 relief. They will basically be guaranteeing the rest of his contract which ends in 2014. The Jets are stuck with Cro for 12/13 anyway why not be stuck with him one more year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denden29 Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Jets can save over $4 million by converting roster bonus into signing bonus. Sanchez, Cromartie, Wilson would do this, doesn’t change a thing for the player they get the money. The Jets will try and get Sanchez to push $3 million of his non-guaranteed base salary to 2013. It doesn't mean anything to the teams adding $3 million to 2013 cause their either going to cut him or extend him, Sanchez will never really see this money. Sanchez isn't going to do this out of the kindness of his heart. The Jets can threaten to cut him and save $9 million. Sanchez will have to ask can I make $8.25 million on the open market which is what he would get under the new terms. If the answer is no there is another $3 million add it to the $4 million up top there is another $7 million, oh and Eric Smith renegotiation will save $1.45 million so total: $8.45 million in savings easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 The Jets will try and get Sanchez to push $3 million of his non-guaranteed base salary to 2013. It doesn't mean anything to the teams adding $3 million to 2013 cause their either going to cut him or extend him, Sanchez will never really see this money. Sanchez isn't going to do this out of the kindness of his heart. The Jets can threaten to cut him and save $9 million. Sanchez will have to ask can I make $8.25 million on the open market which is what he would get under the new terms. in other words, the Jets have no real moves to make with Sanchez's contract. they can either re-up and extend him for a big 2nd deal or he plays out this one. Threatening to cut is kind of an empty threat cause they have no one to replace him with. he probably would get another deal on the open market, and who knows if he even likes playing in NY? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 The Jets are going to move money into 2014 for Cromartie to get 2012/13 relief. They will basically be guaranteeing the rest of his contract which ends in 2014. The Jets are stuck with Cro for 12/13 anyway why not be stuck with him one more year. Cro i believe will be here 1 more year. Extending him until he's 33 seems like a bad bet. the second this player loses a step he will be worthless. Cause his technique is garbage. He's all athleticism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denden29 Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Cro i believe will be here 1 more year. Extending him until he's 33 seems like a bad bet. the second this player loses a step he will be worthless. Cause his technique is garbage. He's all athleticism. Cromartie will be 28 on April 15 he was born in 1984. So his contract would end 2014, he'd be 30. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denden29 Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 in other words, the Jets have no real moves to make with Sanchez's contract. they can either re-up and extend him for a big 2nd deal or he plays out this one. Threatening to cut is kind of an empty threat cause they have no one to replace him with. he probably would get another deal on the open market, and who knows if he even likes playing in NY? What about Greg McElroy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denden29 Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 in other words, the Jets have no real moves to make with Sanchez's contract. they can either re-up and extend him for a big 2nd deal or he plays out this one. Threatening to cut is kind of an empty threat cause they have no one to replace him with. he probably would get another deal on the open market, and who knows if he even likes playing in NY? Ferguson didn’t do the teams any favors he got his money, in fact by making this move Ferguson actually gets some security in 2014. There are some contracts where the Jets can threaten to cut the player and save lots under the cap, not just push money forward, but the ones they can their going to take a hard look at. If the team threatens to cut a player they better be serious. The team has leverage over the contract so if the Jets a ballsy enough to actually cut Sanchez and he believes them he might lower his number. They could guarantee portion in 2013 to make it easier but if they want to play hard ball they can. Coming off of 2011 is he worth $8.25 million to another team, maybe, my guess he decides. Same for DeVito an injury plagued 2011 the team can say we got by without you accept a lower salary or you’re gone, saving around $3 million. These moves may not be popular, or smart for that matter, but are defiantly possible when you look at contracts which savings can come from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Cromartie will be 28 on April 15 he was born in 1984. So his contract would end 2014, he'd be 30. fair enough, i thought he was older. Still don't know if he's worth all that money. Contractually, 2013 season salary looks like when they'd have to make a decision. He's basically on a 1 year deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denden29 Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 fair enough, i thought he was older. Still don't know if he's worth all that money. Contractually, 2013 season salary looks like when they'd have to make a decision. He's basically on a 1 year deal. Cromartie's dead money if cut in 2013 would be $9,500,000, only $1,250,000 in savings. Most of his 2013 salary is guaranteed, I actually just got info from Jason on him. I think the Jets are stuck with him in 2013. The question is do they just leave him alone or try and move money around to save in 2012/13, which will trap them in 2014? I know the Jets are going to convert his 2012 - $3 million roster bonus into signing bonus saving $2 million in 2012 but adding $1 million to 2013 & 14. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJ667 Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I can see everyone doing it, except Cro. Then again, he did come here cause this is where he wanted to be... supposedly. He would do it because it wont cost him money. he gets the same amount regardless of the restructuring. The money gets spread out over the Jets future cap. DenDen can explain it concisely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denden29 Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 He would do it because it wont cost him money. he gets the same amount regardless of the restructuring. The money gets spread out over the Jets future cap. DenDen can explain it concisely. If the Jets are willing to trap themselves with Cro's contract through 2014 than they can possible get some money back in 2012/13. Cromartie is not going to give up money unless he gets more somewhere else. There are lots of moves they can make. They could lower Cro’s base salary to $800,000 in 2012 and convert the rest of his base $3 million into signing bonus. They will also convert his roster bonus into signing bonus. These moves will save $4 million on the Jets cap in 2012 but add $2 million to Cro’s number in 2013 and 2014. Maybe they take some money in 2012 and guarantee his 2014 salary he might agree to this but the first scenario does not affect his money at all, it's just for accounting purposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 The Jets are going to move money into 2014 for Cromartie to get 2012/13 relief. They will basically be guaranteeing the rest of his contract which ends in 2014. The Jets are stuck with Cro for 12/13 anyway why not be stuck with him one more year. He's not exactly a bad guy to keep. Cro is a guy who's really getting his sh*t together on the field. Only worry I have for him is the usual injury risk trough the last three years of his deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denden29 Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 He's not exactly a bad guy to keep. Cro is a guy who's really getting his sh*t together on the field. Only worry I have for him is the usual injury risk trough the last three years of his deal. I agree if he is willing to renegotiate his 2012/13 number lower for a 2014 guarantee I'm all for it. I mean you are stuck with him in 12/13 anyway why not another year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I agree if he is willing to renegotiate his 2012/13 number lower for a 2014 guarantee I'm all for it. I mean you are stuck with him in 12/13 anyway why not another year? I agree if he is willing to renegotiate his 2012/13 number lower for a 2014 guarantee I'm all for it. I mean you are stuck with him in 12/13 anyway why not another year? I don't like being stuck with guys over that long of a time frame. Eating a contract for one year is one thing, but two or three is brutal and it has been much better to keep some of these guys feet to the fire with the threat of needing another pay day. That really doesn't come into play much they are getting the same money anyway, but it can make it more senseless to cut guys who have the cap figure spread out. D'Brick is basically money in the bank. Mangold would be too. They are going to stay, so restructuring is fine, but I'd be wary of doing some of the others unless necessary. I would work the deals out and wait until we need the money for a FA to do it. I know the cap is going up so moving it forward will probably be the smart move with most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denden29 Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I don't like being stuck with guys over that long of a time frame. Eating a contract for one year is one thing, but two or three is brutal and it has been much better to keep some of these guys feet to the fire with the threat of needing another pay day. That really doesn't come into play much they are getting the same money anyway, but it can make it more senseless to cut guys who have the cap figure spread out. D'Brick is basically money in the bank. Mangold would be too. They are going to stay, so restructuring is fine, but I'd be wary of doing some of the others unless necessary. I would work the deals out and wait until we need the money for a FA to do it. I know the cap is going up so moving it forward will probably be the smart move with most. I hear what you are saying. In Cromartie's case his contact is such that the Jets can't cut him in 2012 or 2013 and his contract ends in 2014. If the Jets cut or trade Cromartie in 2012 he will cost $17.75 million against the cap but only $8.25 million if he stays. So you'd increase the cap by $9.5 million and be light a player. So Cromartie will not take a pay cut in 2012, the Jets have no leverage. In 2013 if Cromartie is cut or traded he counts $9.5 million against the cap if he stays $10.75 million so you'd save $1.25 million but have a $9.5 million hit for a non-player. Again Cromartie holds all the cards. In 2014 the Jets could cut or trade Cromartie they would save $9.5 million while only having $1.25 million in dead money. There are some ways to get cap relief without changing the amount of money Cromartie receives. Converting $3 million roster bonus and $3 million of his base salary, like what D'Brick did, into signing bonus would create $4 million in 2012 savings but add $2 million on to 2013 & 2014. Let's say it’s 2013 you need cap space so you convert a portion of Cromartie's 2013 salary into signing bonus that would push money into 2014 added to the $2 million you pushed in 2012, now you’re stuck with his 2014 number cause lots of the money is now guaranteed in 2014. Maybe you don't need relief from him in 2013 that would allow you to cut him in 2014 saving $7.5 million but having $3.25 million in dead money if you only converted the 2012 roster bonus and salary into signing bonus. If you just convert the 2012 $3 million roster bonus into signing bonus and leave everything else alone you save $2 million in 2012 add $1million to 2013 and 2014. So you could defiantly cut him in 2014. The only other alternative is to restructure the whole deal say take away $2 million in salary in 2012 and $2 million in 2013 but guarantee him say $6 million in 2014. He might take less in 2012/13 for a guarantee in 2014 but he will be on your roster until the end of his contract 2014-15 season he'll be 30. All contracts are different the team can only cut a guy if the contract allows for it. Like Holmes, the Jets can't cut him in 2012 or 2013 his money is guaranteed and counts fully against the cap, in fact cutting him in 2012 would be worse than in 2013 but that's still can't happen. Holmes contract has the Jets by the throat. They easily could cut Eric Smith, a popular move, none of his money is guaranteed so if he gets cut the Jets save all his money $2 million, minus his replacement of course. That is why Smith is going to renegotiate and take less money, he has zero leverage, knows he can be cut, and knows he has nowhere to go. Looks like he'll only count $605K against the cap, league rookie minimum is $390K not t terrible deal even if you hate Smith. The Jets have leverage over Sanchez''s contract cut him and save $9 million. The question here is do they threaten to cut him to lower his salary cause he might call their bluff? I think Sanchez lets the Jets lower his base salary $3 million but make them guarantee the rest of his 2012 salary, he'd make $8.25 million in 2012 not bad. Hope this helps you understand where I'm coming from, sorry it's so long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I hear what you are saying. In Cromartie's case his contact is such that the Jets can't cut him in 2012 or 2013 and his contract ends in 2014. If the Jets cut or trade Cromartie in 2012 he will cost $17.75 million against the cap but only $8.25 million if he stays. So you'd increase the cap by $9.5 million and be light a player. So Cromartie will not take a pay cut in 2012, the Jets have no leverage. In 2013 if Cromartie is cut or traded he counts $9.5 million against the cap if he stays $10.75 million so you'd save $1.25 million but have a $9.5 million hit for a non-player. Again Cromartie holds all the cards. In 2014 the Jets could cut or trade Cromartie they would save $9.5 million while only having $1.25 million in dead money. There are some ways to get cap relief without changing the amount of money Cromartie receives. Converting $3 million roster bonus and $3 million of his base salary, like what D'Brick did, into signing bonus would create $4 million in 2012 savings but add $2 million on to 2013 & 2014. Let's say it’s 2013 you need cap space so you convert a portion of Cromartie's 2013 salary into signing bonus that would push money into 2014 added to the $2 million you pushed in 2012, now you’re stuck with his 2014 number cause lots of the money is now guaranteed in 2014. Maybe you don't need relief from him in 2013 that would allow you to cut him in 2014 saving $7.5 million but having $3.25 million in dead money if you only converted the 2012 roster bonus and salary into signing bonus. If you just convert the 2012 $3 million roster bonus into signing bonus and leave everything else alone you save $2 million in 2012 add $1million to 2013 and 2014. So you could defiantly cut him in 2014. The only other alternative is to restructure the whole deal say take away $2 million in salary in 2012 and $2 million in 2013 but guarantee him say $6 million in 2014. He might take less in 2012/13 for a guarantee in 2014 but he will be on your roster until the end of his contract 2014-15 season he'll be 30. All contracts are different the team can only cut a guy if the contract allows for it. Like Holmes, the Jets can't cut him in 2012 or 2013 his money is guaranteed and counts fully against the cap, in fact cutting him in 2012 would be worse than in 2013 but that's still can't happen. Holmes contract has the Jets by the throat. They easily could cut Eric Smith, a popular move, none of his money is guaranteed so if he gets cut the Jets save all his money $2 million, minus his replacement of course. That is why Smith is going to renegotiate and take less money, he has zero leverage, knows he can be cut, and knows he has nowhere to go. Looks like he'll only count $605K against the cap, league rookie minimum is $390K not t terrible deal even if you hate Smith. The Jets have leverage over Sanchez''s contract cut him and save $9 million. The question here is do they threaten to cut him to lower his salary cause he might call their bluff? I think Sanchez lets the Jets lower his base salary $3 million but make them guarantee the rest of his 2012 salary, he'd make $8.25 million in 2012 not bad. Hope this helps you understand where I'm coming from, sorry it's so long. Oh, I knew where you were coming from. I'm just not a big fan of moving money to later years unless there is somebody we want to spend it on. If there is a specific player or a necessity to sign someone, fine. OTOH, if it is just to add some borderline sh*theads, to Hell with it. We have flexibility to move some money around. Let's see how much more we need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason423 Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Oh, I knew where you were coming from. I'm just not a big fan of moving money to later years unless there is somebody we want to spend it on. If there is a specific player or a necessity to sign someone, fine. OTOH, if it is just to add some borderline sh*theads, to Hell with it. We have flexibility to move some money around. Let's see how much more we need. I think one of the things to keep in mind is that starting in 2014 (or at least I believe its 2014 and not 2013) that is the year the cap skyrockets with the new TV money. Back in 06 and 07 so when the cap exploded much more than the internal projections due to the new CBA, teams had more money than they knew what to do with it. Thats when the low spenders started doing contract tricks just to reach the cap floors. the ceilings became so high they were not capable of reaching them without accounting tricks. I think the teams now are prepared for what 14 could mean and teams like the Steelers are pushing money into that year with hopes that it wont hurt much. I think the Jets can do the same and take the risk provided that there is an out by 2015 in all deals. My two concern years are 2013 because its still a tight budget and 2015 when contracts likely catch up to the increased cap space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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