dbatesman Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Ignoring that I'd love to see the admission, not saying it doesn't exist, predictive value of that is...? I'm not saying Sanchez didn't suck the last two years, but the predictive value of that is...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Here you go Gato. Your hero: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/28/rex-ryan-i-didnt-do-a-good-enough-job-managing-our-locker-room/ “Our locker room wasn’t as close as it’s been in the past, obviously, but one thing we know is we’re going to fix it,” Ryan said in an interview with ESPN. “We might have been knocked down this year but we’re not knocked out. We’re going to be swinging, and there’s no doubt about it. But I can’t wait. It’s about moving forward, put that stuff behind us. But there’s things we’re going to learn from. This past season, 8-8 clearly is not good enough. We did have some issues where, obviously, I never did a good enough job of recognizing it and fixing it, but we’re fixing it right now. There’s no doubt about that.” Yeah but did The Media write this? Because if so, it doesn't count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Yeah but did The Media write this? Because if so, it doesn't count. Friggin media is costing us SB's left and right, not to mention the disservice they are doing Rex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 It's kinda amazing that you've professed great faith in John Idzik as the team's new executive, yet you think these black & whites are the only two possible futures for Rex. I don't think there's going to be such a big tie-in to wins and losses, especially if Idzik does some gutting and of the roster himself. He should have an idea of the level of talent Rex has to work with, and the difficulty of the upcoming schedule. He should watch Rex closely, take part in a lot of team meetings, and determine whether or not he thinks Rex will be able to win with the roster he's hoping to put together over the next couple years by judging his coaching style, substance, and the players reactions to him. If the roster sucks, a losing season is pretty inevitable. Tossing the coach because he had no talent to work with would not be fair or smart. It's precisely because I think Idzik is smart that he already knows what Rex is and is not. There are four years worth of track record by which to gauge Rex's abilities. I just don't know what Rex can show over the next 9 months that will save his job if we're assuming the team will not be playoff caliber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsFanInDenver Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 It's precisely because I think Idzik is smart that he already knows what Rex is and is not. There are four years worth of track record by which to gauge Rex's abilities. I just don't know what Rex can show over the next 9 months that will save his job if we're assuming the team will not be playoff caliber. Since you are so confident of a Rex firing end of next season question is who will you replace him with ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 I'm not saying Sanchez didn't suck the last two years, but the predictive value of that is...? Infinitely higher than clubhouse chemistry... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whodeawhodat Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 If tannenbaum let a first time HC walk in and make the personnel choices ala trading a whole draft for Sanchez and Greene then color me shocked. I am sure that Rex approved of the decision but did he really have a choice? Noone knows what kind of input this rookie HC had going into his first season but I find it hard to beleive that he had the keys to the castle as some have stated. I agree with T0m that it is black and white as to what Rex will have to accomplish next year because, well, Rex will be here or he wont. Personally, I am rooting for Rex. I think he sees his own weaknesses and is not afraid to work on them to get better. How does that saying go "when we succeed we learn how to be successful, when we fail we learn even more?" Yeah I just made that sh!t up off the top of fvcking head...also, insert a joke about Sanchez being a menza member in 2013. Overall, I have to agree with the cat. Them resigning these players would imply that the problem was more with Rex than it would be if they let them walk. Some of you look at it as Idzik hanging Rex out to dry but I think this future team(cap and glaring holes) situation is dictating the signings. holy bad grammar batman... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Rex is in the wrong place at the wrong time, even if it's largely his doing. Coaches get fired all the time for stuff that isn't their fault--look at Lovie Smith, Ken Whisenhunt, etc. Do you want to say that Rex has a better track record than those two guys? 1. "Wrong place wrong time" isn't a reason to fire someone. That's the kind of sh*t people say when a bystander gets shot. I definitely agree that there's a very real possibility Ryan is fired, but if the reasons are the ones you choose to build your argument around then I don't agree with the thinking at all. 2. Do you think the Bears and Cardinals made a good decision when firing their last HCs? I think that Smith was on his way out anyway (the guy peaked 7 years ago) but that Arizona pretty much made a lateral move for the hell of making a move. 3. "Coaches get fired all the time for stuff that isn't their fault" is, again, a terrible way to explain why a guy has to be fired. Drafting Sanchez? Partially Rex's fault. Not having a viable backup in 2011 and 2012? Kinda Rex's fault. Playing Sanchez all throughout 2013? 100% Rex's fault. Not a single one of these is true, though I guess in some remote way the first one might have a drop of truth in there. Something along the lines of: Tannenbaum: I'm thinking of trading up for that kid from USC to be the QB. Ryan: Yeah yeah, we need a QB and I've heard of USC. Sounds cool. The rest of this team stuff is covered anyway. I don't get how your second one doesn't tie directly into your last one, and how that falls on the head coach and not the guy whose job it was to get more good players (since fired for not getting enough good players). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 1. "Wrong place wrong time" isn't a reason to fire someone. That's the kind of sh*t people say when a bystander gets shot. I definitely agree that there's a very real possibility Ryan is fired, but if the reasons are the ones you choose to build your argument around then I don't agree with the thinking at all. 2. Do you think the Bears and Cardinals made a good decision when firing their last HCs? I think that Smith was on his way out anyway (the guy peaked 7 years ago) but that Arizona pretty much made a lateral move for the hell of making a move. 3. "Coaches get fired all the time for stuff that isn't their fault" is, again, a terrible way to explain why a guy has to be fired. Can we fire a coach because of diminishing returns? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 It's precisely because I think Idzik is smart that he already knows what Rex is and is not. There are four years worth of track record by which to gauge Rex's abilities. I just don't know what Rex can show over the next 9 months that will save his job if we're assuming the team will not be playoff caliber. He won't really know what Rex is or isn't until he sees him in action first hand. He'd be foolish not to use this entire season to do a complete evaluation of the man. Once that's done, he could certainly come to the conclusion that Rex isn't a good fit or even a good coach, but he's got to come to that conclusion on his own. There are a lot of factors at play when it comes simply to the won-loss record. Idzik really hasn't gotten started yet. We'll have a better feel for where he's at once he starts making some moves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Can we fire a coach because of diminishing returns? Sure, if that's the one and only approach and it's foolproof. What about depreciation of the roster? Diminishing returns would require that he was working with the same base he started with - Bart Scott in his prime, Pouha in his prime, a healthy Revis, an elite OL and ground game - even added to it, and saw minimal at best gains. That is not even close to the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JiFtheOracle Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 You dont take a team to the verge of the SB, twice, with Mark Sanchez as your QB if you're not a good HC. Why is that so difficult to grasp for so many people around here? Some coaches get lucky (Herm, Mangini, Tony S. and many others)...sneak into the playoffs with a veteran QB and a decent roster. Maybe win, most likely dont and thats all you ever see from said coach. A sh*tty HC, like everyone around here says Rex is, doesnt take a team to the brink of the SB twice. I know there are no trophies for that....but just because they dont give out trophies for it, doesnt mean its not damn hard to do. And it probably means the guy in charge, has very good grasp on how to win when it counts ie: a good HC. Crazy. I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 You dont take a team to the verge of the SB, twice, with Mark Sanchez as your QB if you're not a good HC. Why is that so difficult to grasp for so many people around here? Do good coaches go through locker room problems? Who's the last good coach to put up a losing season in 4? How many good coaches have not made a Super Bowl within their first 4 years? DIMINISHING RETURNS brah, just deal with it. You just got Scienced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedro55 Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Sure, if that's the one and only approach and it's foolproof. What about depreciation of the roster? Diminishing returns would require that he was working with the same base he started with - Bart Scott in his prime, Pouha in his prime, a healthy Revis, an elite OL and ground game - even added to it, and saw minimal at best gains. That is not even close to the case. Depth and replacing the roster is partially Rex's fault. Most NFL teams lose players, players get hurt, players get older, players get hurt and don't come back as good, etc. Revis was lost for most of last year and the Jets defense really wasn't all that different in regards to being good or bad. The problem Rex had was the offensive side of things. It wasn't like he started out with the Patriots or Rams greatest offensive years. He started out with an avg offense who could run the ball and had a rookie QB. By year 4 of Rex's regime, the Jets couldn't run the ball and Sanchez was worse in season 4. That's the problem with Rex. They got worse and worse. Good teams and coaches figure out ways to replace players or at least adapt. Rex seems to be able to do this on the defensive side of the ball. Were the Jets as good on defense as they were 4 years ago? No, but the Jets didn't lose because they had a terrible defense. I mean the Packers were 15-1 the other year with one of the worst defenses in the history of the NFL. The Patriots weren't that much better and made it to the super bowl. Rex just couldn't figure out how to put an offense on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Depth and replacing the roster is partially Rex's fault. In reality, it's totally the GM's job. This board is just brainstorming sh*t that will need to be said if/when he is actually fired to cover up the real reasons the Jets will be doing it - nonsense like "wrong place at the wrong time" and "sometimes coaches just get blamed for things that aren't their fault." Oh, and don't forget derpa herpa culture change. That's the problem with Rex. That actually sounds like the problem with Sanchez, but maybe I'm just biased against that poor boy. Good teams and coaches figure out ways to replace players or at least adapt. Adapt like to run the ball 1000 times in two years in the 21st century and still be one good half of football away from the Super Bowl twice? Or some other kind of adapt? The adapt that makes Sanchez magically better rather than magically out of the picture the majority of the time? How would those good teams and good coaches go about making that happen? Rex seems to be able to do this on the defensive side of the ball. Oh so he CAN adapt...but we just did a whole...god dammit this board is hilarious. I mean the Packers were 15-1 the other year with one of the worst defenses in the history of the NFL. The Patriots weren't that much better and made it to the super bowl. Rex just couldn't figure out how to put an offense on the field. Yeah! Good point. **** him for not turning Sanchez into Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady. It's easy bro! Just adapt and replace guys on offense! Come on! It's that simple and he doesn't do it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Sure, if that's the one and only approach and it's foolproof. What about depreciation of the roster? Diminishing returns would require that he was working with the same base he started with - Bart Scott in his prime, Pouha in his prime, a healthy Revis, an elite OL and ground game - even added to it, and saw minimal at best gains. That is not even close to the case. Well, if a coach is only as good as his players, what do we even need a coach for........and I get there does have to be some direct correlation. My thoughts on Rex is, exactly what players have we seen "overachieve" with him, based on expectations? Certainly the defensive line, he has had some very good success stories, but who else? Rex and staff seem to have minimal development abilities outside that specific area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JiFtheOracle Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Well, if a coach is only as good as his players, what do we even need a coach for........and I get there does have to be some direct correlation. My thoughts on Rex is, exactly what players have we seen "overachieve" with him, based on expectations? Certainly the defensive line, he has had some very good success stories, but who else? Rex and staff seem to have minimal development abilities outside that specific area. Revis Cro Leonhard Harris Holmes Edwards Jones Keller DeVito Pouha Greene Smith All come to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 You dont take a team to the verge of the SB, twice, with Mark Sanchez as your QB if you're not a good HC. Why is that so difficult to grasp for so many people around here? Some coaches get lucky (Herm, Mangini, Tony S. and many others)...sneak into the playoffs with a veteran QB and a decent roster. Maybe win, most likely dont and thats all you ever see from said coach. A sh*tty HC, like everyone around here says Rex is, doesnt take a team to the brink of the SB twice. I know there are no trophies for that....but just because they dont give out trophies for it, doesnt mean its not damn hard to do. And it probably means the guy in charge, has very good grasp on how to win when it counts ie: a good HC. Crazy. I know. Whisenhunt, Fassel, and Lovie all went to Super Bowls and got fired. Fassel did it with Kerry Collins. Lovie with Rex Grossman. You're dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 You dont take a team to the verge of the SB, twice, with Mark Sanchez as your QB if you're not a good HC. Why is that so difficult to grasp for so many people around here? Some coaches get lucky (Herm, Mangini, Tony S. and many others)...sneak into the playoffs with a veteran QB and a decent roster. Maybe win, most likely dont and thats all you ever see from said coach. A sh*tty HC, like everyone around here says Rex is, doesnt take a team to the brink of the SB twice. I know there are no trophies for that....but just because they dont give out trophies for it, doesnt mean its not damn hard to do. And it probably means the guy in charge, has very good grasp on how to win when it counts ie: a good HC. Crazy. I know. Nate Kaeding, the man that made Rex great. Doug Brien, the man that kept Herm Edwards from being great. Who knew it was that easy to define? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Revis Cro Leonhard Harris Holmes Edwards Jones Keller DeVito Pouha Greene Smith All come to mind. You are truly delusional if you believe that Rex made those players better and a direct result oh him. Stop it with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JiFtheOracle Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Nate Kaeding, the man that made Rex great. Doug Brien, the man that kept Herm Edwards from being great. Who knew it was that easy to define? Scott Norwood made Parcells. You really want to play this stupid game? You are truly delusional if you believe that Rex made those players better and a direct result oh him. Stop it with that. You are truly delusional if you believe that Rex didnt make those players better and are a direct result of his presence. Stop it with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Well, if a coach is only as good as his players, what do we even need a coach for........and I get there does have to be some direct correlation. My thoughts on Rex is, exactly what players have we seen "overachieve" with him, based on expectations? Certainly the defensive line, he has had some very good success stories, but who else? Rex and staff seem to have minimal development abilities outside that specific area. Bold: So then why ask? Are the Harbaugh brothers the newest, hottest things around if they don't have Patrick Willis, Terrell Suggs, Ray Rice, Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, Aldon Smith, Justin Smith, Mike Iupati, and all those other high quality NFL players on their rosters? NOPE. Not even close really... 2: The entire Jets offense in 2009 and 2010 overachieved with him. The secondary finished top 10 without Revis last year despite JN's Scientists insisting that everyone would be lucky to be called a JAG except Cromartie and Landry. That sounds like overachieving. The roster spit out 6 wins last year with Mark Sanchez performing like a second tier BACKUP, the team's best defensive player missing 13 games, and it's two best offensive playmakers missing large chunks of the season - to me given full context of the reality and not unspecified expectations - that is overachieving. 2009 got backup QB level play IIRC and had a lead on the Colts going into the 3rd quarter on the road - overachieving. I see plenty of overachieving under Ryan - just not to the Super Bowl every year level expectations that is the standard of JN's top GM candidates who consider reality secondary to their expectations. 3. Besides Sanchez, what young player has disappointed given realistic, reality based expectations? By realistic, reality based expectations I mean not faulting Kyle Wilson, the #30 pick, for not being a shut down corner just because 30 happens to fall in the first round and first round = superstaaaarz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JiFtheOracle Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Whisenhunt, Fassel, and Lovie all went to Super Bowls and got fired. Fassel did it with Kerry Collins. Lovie with Rex Grossman. You're dumb. Did they do it twice? No. You're not very smart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Nate Kaeding, the man that made Rex great. Doug Brien, the man that kept Herm Edwards from being great. Who knew it was that easy to define? Yep. Amazing how the made it to the AFC title game two seasons in a row because a guy missed a couple of kicks in one game. I mean it's not like Kaeding missed any kicks against Herm, is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Well, there's a whole lotta trollin' going on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JiFtheOracle Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Yep. Amazing how the made it to the AFC title game two seasons in a row because a guy missed a couple of kicks in one game. I mean it's not like Kaeding missed any kicks against Herm, is it? Brett Favre and Kyle Williams made Coughlin great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Scott Norwood made Parcells. You really want to play this stupid game? You are truly delusional if you believe that Rex didnt make those players better and are a direct result of his presence. Stop it with that. Bill Parcells WON the Super Bowl and appeared in others. DO NOT compare Rex to Parcells Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Well, there's a whole lotta trollin' going on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Brett Favre and Kyle Williams made Coughlin great. WHAT HAVE BRADY AND BELICHICK DONE WITHOUT VINATERI AND CAMERAS!??!?!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JiFtheOracle Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Bill Parcells WON the Super Bowl and appeared in others. DO NOT compare Rex to Parcells Scott Norwood, the man that made Parcells great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JiFtheOracle Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 WHAT HAVE BRADY AND BELICHICK DONE WITHOUT VINATERI!??!?!. I don't think I'm doing it right, but it sounded fun. Close. Try this: Vinateri, the man that made BB/Brady great. The Tuck rule, the play that made BB great. Mo Lewis, the man that made BB great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Close. Try this: Vinateri, the man that made BB/Brady great. The Tuck rule, the play that made BB great. Mo Lewis, the man that made BB great. Right along with how Rex Ryan has had such a profound impact on Dustin Keller and Shonne Greene. What would they have done without him???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JiFtheOracle Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Right along with how Rex Ryan has had such a profound impact on Dustin Keller and Shonne Greene. What would they have done without him???? Not had career years is my guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Not had career years is my guess. In that case, they have also had their career worst years under Ryan. What exactly are you saying??????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 In that case, they have also had their career worst years under Ryan. What exactly are you saying??????? I think he's saying that Scott Norwood is the man that made Bill Parcells great and that Adam Vinateri (+ cameras HAHA) made Belichick/Brady great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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