lamont_jordan_rules Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 Sal Paolantonio was just on Sirius radio and discussed who he believe are the top 5 immediate impact players. He's one of the sportscasters i respect and believe most of you do as well. He made a specific point that he'd have put Dion Jordan in at 5 if he wasn't coming back from an injury, thus may not be immediately 100% to start training camp. 1. Eric Fisher 2. Chance Warmack 3. Sharrif Floyd 4. Tavon Austin 5. Luke Joeckel He made a point of emphasis that these are his top 5 to immediately contribute with the greatest impact ( as opposed to simply stating they are who he thinks will be the 5 best players ) ljr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 I agree with his list, except I think Vaccarro should replace Tavon Austin. Vaccarro is going to hold down the back end of some lucky team's defense, and in a game where pass-catching TEs are tearing teams up in the secondary, he'll be an asset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernJet Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 I like Cooper over Warmack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flgreen Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 Yeah, I go with the fact that these guys have the least bust factor, and probably will be able to contribute in their first season. I’d take Austin off the list. Not that I think he is going to be a bust, but I don’t think he is in the same class of stability Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 There's a reason a guard hasn't been taken as high as #9 in 28 years. Guards are not impact players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 Yeah, I go with the fact that these guys have the least bust factor, and probably will be able to contribute in their first season. I’d take Austin off the list. Not that I think he is going to be a bust, but I don’t think he is in the same class of stability The way it's phrased, it seems like Paolantonio is saying that those are the five guys who could step on the field this afternoon and contribute. Kind of a silly exercise, really. I'm sure his list of players he thinks will be the best pros is markedly different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 There's a reason a guard hasn't been taken as high as #9 in 28 years. Guards are not impact players. or there hasn't been as good a prospect as Chance for 28 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JiFtheOracle Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 or there hasn't been as good a prospect as Chance for 28 years. lmfao - okay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 I agree with his list, except I think Vaccarro should replace Tavon Austin. Vaccarro is going to hold down the back end of some lucky team's defense, and in a game where pass-catching TEs are tearing teams up in the secondary, he'll be an asset. Yeah, I go with the fact that these guys have the least bust factor, and probably will be able to contribute in their first season. I’d take Austin off the list. Not that I think he is going to be a bust, but I don’t think he is in the same class of stability I don't think stability is the point. The point is immediate impact. Vaccaro will probably be a fine starter, but I'd guess there is a question as to how much impact a solid safety is going to make. Austin's game is speed. He isn't going to have some big adjustment where he learns to be fast. He will be blazing all over the place and can make a huge impact even just as a returner. Also, a big question is whether a little guy like him can take the pounding, well that will be cumulative or when he starts getting blasted. It's not necessarily going to be the early season or even his first year. The comparison I see the most is Harvin and he didn't exactly take a long time to blend in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 lmfao - okay Mike Iupati is the one guard I could think of who is as good a prospect. And if he went to Alabama in stead of Idaho he would have definitely go higher than 17. Chance Warmack btw had a really high profile National championship game. Kinda like Marcel Dareus. The dude played huge in a huge game that everyone saw. that counts for something. on a side note anyone who thinks tavon austin is worth a top 10 pick at 5'8" is also doing some creative projection. Here's a question whens the last time a short return man went top 10? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JiFtheOracle Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 Mike Iupati is the one guard I could think of who is as good a prospect. And if he went to Alabama in stead of Idaho he would have definitely go higher than 17. Chance Warmack btw had a really high profile National championship game. Kinda like Marcel Dareus. The dude played huge in a huge game that everyone saw. that counts for something. And last year David DeCastro was the next Steve Hutchinson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 If a guard was a truly elite athlete/football player, they'd either be an OT or a DT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 And last year David DeCastro was the next Steve Hutchinson. I don't know what people are trying to prove with this comment. Decastro got hurt. It happens. Players get hurt. He's still a 10+ year starter for PIT. Chance is a better prospect than Decastro either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 Mike Iupati is the one guard I could think of who is as good a prospect. And if he went to Alabama in stead of Idaho he would have definitely go higher than 17. Chance Warmack btw had a really high profile National championship game. Kinda like Marcel Dareus. The dude played huge in a huge game that everyone saw. that counts for something. on a side note anyone who thinks tavon austin is worth a top 10 pick at 5'8" is also doing some creative projection. Here's a question whens the last time a short return man went top 10? Tavon Austin had 114 catches last year alone. 108 the year before that. Who is this "return man" you're speaking of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 If a guard was a truly elite athlete/football player, they'd either be an OT or a DT. If he went to Kent State that's true (Brian Winters for example). At Alabama they have 5 star prospects at every position. They don't need to kick Chance out to tackle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 Tavon Austin had 114 catches last year alone. 108 the year before that. Who is this "return man" you're speaking of? whatever dude tell me the last time a receiver that short went top 10. It's not a rhetorical question. It's the same argument as the Chance argument. It hasn't happened therefore it wont. If Chance isn't going top 10 neither is tavon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JiFtheOracle Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 I don't know what people are trying to prove with this comment. Decastro got hurt. It happens. Players get hurt. He's still a 10+ year starter for PIT. Chance is a better prospect than Decastro either way. The rumors out of Steelers camp is he was getting tossed around like a rag doll. Who was the last Guard taken in the top 10 who actually played Guard in the NFL? Naeole? What kind of career did he have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 If he went to Kent State that's true (Brian Winters for example). At Alabama they have 5 star prospects at every position. They don't need to kick Chance out to tackle. Then how come I don't see Alabama OTs or DTs projected to go top ten in this year's draft? whatever dude tell me the last time a receiver that short went top 10. It's not a rhetorical question. It's the same argument as the Chance argument. It hasn't happened therefore it wont. If Chance isn't going top 10 neither is tavon. If the criteria is immediate impact, Austin makes one and the guards don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flgreen Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 I don't think stability is the point. The point is immediate impact. Vaccaro will probably be a fine starter, but I'd guess there is a question as to how much impact a solid safety is going to make. Austin's game is speed. He isn't going to have some big adjustment where he learns to be fast. He will be blazing all over the place and can make a huge impact even just as a returner. Also, a big question is whether a little guy like him can take the pounding, well that will be cumulative or when he starts getting blasted. It's not necessarily going to be the early season or even his first year. The comparison I see the most is Harvin and he didn't exactly take a long time to blend in. Yes, Austin’s game is speed. There are a lot of very fast WR’s in this draft who are not going to be top 10 picks, or one of the top 5 players in the draft. An example, Goodwin Marquise 4.21 maybe going in the 3rd. Kenny Stills 4.32 maybe going in the 4th, Corey Fuller 4.32, maybe at low as the 6th. It’s more then just speed. With that said I would be very disappointed if the Jets take Austin at 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 M on a side note anyone who thinks tavon austin is worth a top 10 pick at 5'8" is also doing some creative projection. Here's a question whens the last time a short return man went top 10? This may be true, but is irrelevant to Palantonio's point. Guys that aren't picked in the top 10 often have more immediate impact. Austin can step in and return and score TDs. Doesn't mean he is going to develop into anything more. Sort of the opposite of Stephen HIll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 Yes, Austin’s game is speed. There are a lot of very fast WR’s in this draft who are not going to be top 10 picks, or one of the top 5 players in the draft. An example, Goodwin Marquise 4.21 maybe going in the 3rd. Kenny Stills 4.32 maybe going in the 4th, Corey Fuller 4.32, maybe at low as the 6th. It’s more then just speed. With that said I would be very disappointed if the Jets take Austin at 9 See my response to Bit above. I'm not advocating Austin at 9. I'm just saying that I can see Sal Pal's point of pointing him on this list. For the record I would be very disappointed if the Jets took Vaccaro at 9, but that was the Ape, not you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 whatever dude tell me the last time a receiver that short went top 10. It's not a rhetorical question. It's the same argument as the Chance argument. It hasn't happened therefore it wont. If Chance isn't going top 10 neither is tavon. Harvin and DeSean Jackson are proving that, with the new rules, size doesn't mean sh*t anymore. Hell, safeties are barely allowed to tackle these smaller receivers now, much less blow them up. Personally, if I was a GM, I'd draft an OLman in one of the first three rounds every year. That said, this Jets roster is depleted and we can't afford to direct more high-value resources to one of the rare units that isn't a train wreck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernJet Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 Then how come I don't see Alabama OTs or DTs projected to go top ten in this year's draft? If the criteria is immediate impact, Austin makes one and the guards don't. sort of why I like Cooper over Warmack. Warmack was surrounded by more talent overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSJets Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 If he went to Kent State that's true (Brian Winters for example). At Alabama they have 5 star prospects at every position. They don't need to kick Chance out to tackle. Would you rather have an OLman who plays great with 4 other great players on an OL or an OLman who plays great on an OL where he is the only great player? People say that Brick and Mangold had to suffer a little because of having to cover up for Slauson. It works in reverse too. If you're surrounded by four other great OLmen like you seem to be implying, doesn't that inflate his value, just a little? I'll admit, I haven't watched every play of every game of his, but when I do focus on him the few times I've watched him, he just looks like a slow, plodding OLman. If someone gets in front of him, great, he can block them and he's pretty powerful, but he just seems so unathletic to be this "can't miss" prospect I keep reading about. DLmen are getting more and more athletic at the NFL level and I honestly don't see this all-world player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JiFtheOracle Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 Here's one way to look at the Austin vs. Warmack debate: If both of them pan out say to the equivalent of Austin = Percy Harvin and Warmack = Carl Nicks. Who's going to have a larger impact on the NY Jets? I'd say Harvin 100 times over. Game breaking player who moves the chains in bulk and has the chance to score with ball in hand at any time, changes field position, you can line him up all over the field or a Guard (which we havent had terrible play from) who opens a large lane for the great Mike Goodsen and Bilal Powell? lmfao Its a no brainer. Hell, Nicks went down and Martin started going mental. That's how big of an impact the most sought after Guard last FA had on his team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 comparing Austin to harvin is great and all but no one took Harvin in the top 10 either. it's a huge double standard to say Austin is worth the 9 pick but Chance isn't. They both have limitations that usually exclude them from the top 10. Chance is a guard and Tavon is short. People say a guard hasn't gone top 10 in 28 years. Ok well I don't think a 5'8" receivier has EVER gone top 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 Then how come I don't see Alabama OTs or DTs projected to go top ten in this year's draft? If the criteria is immediate impact, Austin makes one and the guards don't. Alabama has a soph OT stud named Cyrus Kouandji who definitely will be a high pick. Too young for this draft tho. DJ Fluker is a cusp 1/2 as is DT Jesse Williams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSJets Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 sort of why I like Cooper over Warmack. Warmack was surrounded by more talent overall. Well, you also love him because of the school he goes to lol. But seriously, he's a lot more athletic than Warmack. I also found this: http://www.nfl.com/videos/auto/0ap2000000154053/Better-pro-Johnathan-Cooper-or-Chance-Warmack If Tannenbaum would rather pick Warmack, then I would have to go with Cooper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 by the way the whole Warmack vs Austin discussion is only relevant if no one else good falls to the Jets. they are "safety school" picks. Best case for the Jets, Geno Smith goes early and someone reaches for the 3rd OT or whatever and an unexpected bounty like Dion Jordan falls to 9. We are discussing "worse case" scenarios for the JEts. whatever you think about Austin or Warmack (or Cooper) we can all pretty much agree these are teens players and 9 would be their ceiling. Not alot of scenarios have these guys coming off before the Jets pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JiFtheOracle Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 comparing Austin to harvin is great and all but no one took Harvin in the top 10 either. it's a huge double standard to say Austin is worth the 9 pick but Chance isn't. They both have limitations that usually exclude them from the top 10. Chance is a guard and Tavon is short. People say a guard hasn't gone top 10 in 28 years. Ok well I don't think a 5'8" receivier has EVER gone top 10. Really? You think if the Raiders had a redo at #7 they'd still take DHB over Harvin? Lmfao And its not really the same from a draft perspective because Harvin had character issues coming out. Also, its not a double standard at all. WR's go top 10 all the time, sh*t, they go #1 overall sometimes. Guards, never do. If you want to site his height, fine, I'm not thrilled with it either, but there is no doubt about it his position has a larger impact on the game. Especially, this NFL. Especially, on a team who's had solid OL play but cant move the F'ing chains because they have zero players to throw to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obrien2Toon Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 whatever dude tell me the last time a receiver that short went top 10. It's not a rhetorical question. It's the same argument as the Chance argument. It hasn't happened therefore it wont. If Chance isn't going top 10 neither is tavon. Ted ginn?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 Ted ginn?? ted ginn is 5'11 Yes Receivers do go top 10 all the time. im still waiting for an example of a receiver as short as Tavon Austin in the top 10. If we are talking about draft history, let's talk about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 Really? You think if the Raiders had a redo at #7 they'd still take DHB over Harvin? Lmfao drafting in hindsight, alot of teams have alot of picks that they'd redo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernJet Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 Well, you also love him because of the school he goes to lol. But seriously, he's a lot more athletic than Warmack. I also found this: http://www.nfl.com/videos/auto/0ap2000000154053/Better-pro-Johnathan-Cooper-or-Chance-Warmack If Tannenbaum would rather pick Warmack, then I would have to go with Cooper. wow, great video,,thanks.. I think Cooper justifies higher pick due to ability to play tackle or center to boot.. and the guy made GREAT point how Cooper was forced to lose over 20 lbs to play a new coaches style yet stil excelled.. He will get bigger in NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whodeawhodat Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 whatever dude tell me the last time a receiver that short went top 10. It's not a rhetorical question. It's the same argument as the Chance argument. It hasn't happened therefore it wont. If Chance isn't going top 10 neither is tavon. Id guess it was ted ginn and we all laughed our asses off when that pick was made Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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