whodeawhodat Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 Ted ginn?? NINJA'D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 Id guess it was ted ginn and we all laughed our asses off when that pick was made ted ginn is at least 3 inches taller than Tavon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flgreen Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 by the way the whole Warmack vs Austin discussion is only relevant if no one else good falls to the Jets. they are "safety school" picks. Best case for the Jets, Geno Smith goes early and someone reaches for the 3rd OT or whatever and an unexpected bounty like Dion Jordan falls to 9. We are discussing "worse case" scenarios for the JEts. whatever you think about Austin or Warmack (or Cooper) we can all pretty much agree these are teens players and 9 would be their ceiling. Not alot of scenarios have these guys coming off before the Jets pick. Got to agree with Bit here. Neither of these guys are who I optimally want at 9. If the first 8 picks go badly for the Jets, and this is what’s left, I’ll go with Warmack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 I agree with his list, except I think Vaccarro should replace Tavon Austin. Vaccarro is going to hold down the back end of some lucky team's defense, and in a game where pass-catching TEs are tearing teams up in the secondary, he'll be an asset. dude can't even crack a 4.6. I would consider that a pretty big red flag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedro55 Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 You can't use Harvin as a barometer. Harvin was drafted in 2009 by the Vikings. A team who would win the division, wind up 12-4, had a QB named Favre, had Adrian Peterson as running back, and Sidney Rice as the other WR. Kind of helps you win you come into a team like that. Austin would come in at #9 onto a team with no real QB, no real WR if Holmes is not healthy, no real RB, a team not sure what it's doing and needs a lot of other help. The reality is Austin at #9 probably winds up closer to DHB and not Harvin. The Raiders sucked. DHB never lived up to his draft pick number. Maybe Austin winds up being good down the line, but then again, DHB could wind up being good on a team other than the Raiders. I love Austin, but saying he'll be an impact player on a team where everybody loves to hate on how Sanchez is the worst QB in the NFL makes no sense. You can't have a bad QB like Sanchez and expect a rookie WR with no other help on offense to put up ROY numbers like Harvin did. And if the Jets cant figure a way to find a better QB anytime soon, aka like the Raiders, Austin winds up being a guy who might show you something on the return teams, but he's on a team who has a crappy offense. Larry Fitzgerald. Think about how great he has been. Think about how he's dying in Arizona right now because of being on a team with no QB. A great WR without a QB or offense winds up being a great WR who either gets bored like Randy Moss or puts up some great meaningless numbers but doesn't help the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 dude can't even crack a 4.6. I would consider that a pretty big red flag. Okay, then put what's his face the cornerback from 'bama in there instead. My point being both those guys are going to step into starting defensive roles, while Tavon Austin will be returning punts and running gadget plays until he acclimates to the NFL, like most/all WRs must do. Whoever these 5 guys are, we know none of them will be Jets, amiright? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedro55 Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 Okay, then put what's his face the cornerback from 'bama in there instead. My point being both those guys are going to step into starting defensive roles, while Tavon Austin will be returning punts and running gadget plays until he acclimates to the NFL, like most/all WRs must do. Whoever these 5 guys are, we know none of them will be Jets, amiright? The problem with a WR on a team without a legit NFL QB is that they won't make a team better. Throw Austin on the Colts or Packers or Seahawks or Patriots, etc and he probably is fighting for ROY honors. Throw him on teams like the Jets and Cardinals and BIlls and he winds up hoping to return every kick for a TD and not doing much else. Long term, it all depends on the QB situation. The OL situation. Guys like Austin are great if you have a great QB and a good OL. If you have no other WR, a bad QB, and bad OL, you kind of have a WR who never gets thrown the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 The problem with a WR on a team without a legit NFL QB is that they won't make a team better. Throw Austin on the Colts or Packers or Seahawks or Patriots, etc and he probably is fighting for ROY honors. Throw him on teams like the Jets and Cardinals and BIlls and he winds up hoping to return every kick for a TD and not doing much else. Long term, it all depends on the QB situation. The OL situation. Guys like Austin are great if you have a great QB and a good OL. If you have no other WR, a bad QB, and bad OL, you kind of have a WR who never gets thrown the ball. I think Tavon Austin's most likely impact is returning kicks. So stick him on a team that forces a lot of 3-and-outs on defense, and you increase his touches on punt returns. Rookie WRs rarely impact their teams in year 1. It's a long-established trend. QB or no QB, it's irrelevant. Rookie WRs just don't do much unless they are absolutely special. He will make his impact on special teams, but it won't be one of the top 5 most impactful rookies in this draft. In fact most of these names won't be. Just because they are the will get picked in the top 10-12 doesn't mean jack... I will bet one of the most impactful rookies is a RB that is drafted after round 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 Okay, then put what's his face the cornerback from 'bama in there instead. My point being both those guys are going to step into starting defensive roles, while Tavon Austin will be returning punts and running gadget plays until he acclimates to the NFL, like most/all WRs must do. Whoever these 5 guys are, we know none of them will be Jets, amiright? Yeah, I was surprised Milliner wasn't there. I think it's just the CB position is the hardest to judge in transition. I think Vaccaro will be good too. Part of me was hoping his 40 would drop him maybe to the 2nd round Jets area...but they're saying he won't drop that far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 I don't see how both Eifert and Ertz aren't in this list. I think they'll transition to the NFL without issue, and will immediately help their teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 You can't use Harvin as a barometer. Harvin was drafted in 2009 by the Vikings. A team who would win the division, wind up 12-4, had a QB named Favre, had Adrian Peterson as running back, and Sidney Rice as the other WR. Kind of helps you win you come into a team like that. Austin would come in at #9 onto a team with no real QB, no real WR if Holmes is not healthy, no real RB, a team not sure what it's doing and needs a lot of other help. The reality is Austin at #9 probably winds up closer to DHB and not Harvin. The Raiders sucked. DHB never lived up to his draft pick number. Maybe Austin winds up being good down the line, but then again, DHB could wind up being good on a team other than the Raiders. I love Austin, but saying he'll be an impact player on a team where everybody loves to hate on how Sanchez is the worst QB in the NFL makes no sense. You can't have a bad QB like Sanchez and expect a rookie WR with no other help on offense to put up ROY numbers like Harvin did. And if the Jets cant figure a way to find a better QB anytime soon, aka like the Raiders, Austin winds up being a guy who might show you something on the return teams, but he's on a team who has a crappy offense. Larry Fitzgerald. Think about how great he has been. Think about how he's dying in Arizona right now because of being on a team with no QB. A great WR without a QB or offense winds up being a great WR who either gets bored like Randy Moss or puts up some great meaningless numbers but doesn't help the team. What does that have to do with Palantonio's list? Palantonio is not selecting the five players that would have the biggest impact if they are drafted by the Jets. Austin's stature may actually help him in this regard because he is almost a "luxury pick" which might mean he will only be picked where he can do damage. Suppose the Pats get him. Any question he would put up sick numbers if he isn't killed or do you think Amendola will keep him on the bench? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JiFtheOracle Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 drafting in hindsight, alot of teams have alot of picks that they'd redo. And? ted ginn is 5'11 Yes Receivers do go top 10 all the time. im still waiting for an example of a receiver as short as Tavon Austin in the top 10. If we are talking about draft history, let's talk about it. We are talking about draft history. 1 Guard in the past 20 years has gone in the top 10. WR's go in the top 10,often, sometimes multiple. Oh yeah, Austins height. Well, Warmack is short. How many 6'2 Guards go top 10? Oh yeah, Guards dont go top 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 And? We are talking about draft history. 1 Guard in the past 20 years has gone in the top 10. WR's go in the top 10, yearly. Oh yeah, Austins height. Well, Warmack is short. How many 6'2 Guards go top 10? Oh yeah, Guards dont go top 10. Actually they do go top 10. Just not that often. Short WR NEVER go top 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j4jets Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 Mike Iupati is the one guard I could think of who is as good a prospect. And if he went to Alabama in stead of Idaho he would have definitely go higher than 17. Chance Warmack btw had a really high profile National championship game. Kinda like Marcel Dareus. The dude played huge in a huge game that everyone saw. that counts for something. on a side note anyone who thinks tavon austin is worth a top 10 pick at 5'8" is also doing some creative projection. Here's a question whens the last time a short return man went top 10? Thats no logic/excuse for not drafting a WR. Wes Welker went undrafted in 2004 when there were 5 WRs selected in the top 15. Only Larry Fitzgerald was better than Welker that year and in a draft redo, he'd be a top 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JiFtheOracle Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 Actually they do go top 10. Just not that often. Short WR NEVER go top 10. Name 1 who wasnt converted to T. Was he as short as Warmack? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JiFtheOracle Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 The problem with a WR on a team without a legit NFL QB is that they won't make a team better. Throw Austin on the Colts or Packers or Seahawks or Patriots, etc and he probably is fighting for ROY honors. Throw him on teams like the Jets and Cardinals and BIlls and he winds up hoping to return every kick for a TD and not doing much else. Long term, it all depends on the QB situation. The OL situation. Guys like Austin are great if you have a great QB and a good OL. If you have no other WR, a bad QB, and bad OL, you kind of have a WR who never gets thrown the ball. Personally, I think this logic is poor. You draft a guy top 10, you expect him to be around 5 years. You'd hope you can find someone to get him the ball during his tenure. Just because you dont have a QB now, doesnt mean you pass on a player that you think has superstar potential. The Jets technically dont have a legit RB either. So why draft a G? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 Name 1 who wasnt converted to T. Was he as short as Warmack? Chris Naeole who was 6'3". You're turn, name 1 WR shorter than 5'9" drafted in top 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 You guys are arguing over height. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 Height. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JiFtheOracle Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 Chris Naeole who was 6'3". You're turn, name 1 WR shorter than 5'9" drafted in top 10. You named someone taller but want me to name someone smaller? WTF? Someone said Ted Ginn Jr..........Peter Warrick, Terry Glenn, Ike Hillard, Desmond Howard, Lam Jones. What do I win? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 Personally, I think this logic is poor. You draft a guy top 10, you expect him to be around 5 years. You'd hope you can find someone to get him the ball during his tenure. Just because you dont have a QB now, doesnt mean you pass on a player that you think has superstar potential. The Jets technically dont have a legit RB either. So why draft a G? i just want to point out that on this list, Sal Pal put Chance 2 and Tavon 4. Obvious Sal could be wrong but every list in the nation has Chance graded out higher than Tavon. Maybe it's not about positional value. Maybe he's just a better prospect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetsjetsjetss Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 There's a reason a guard hasn't been taken as high as #9 in 28 years. Guards are not impact players. impact no but a good oline wins you games consistently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JiFtheOracle Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 i just want to point out that on this list, Sal Pal put Chance 2 and Tavon 4. Obvious Sal could be wrong but every list in the nation has Chance graded out higher than Tavon. Maybe it's not about positional value. Maybe he's just a better prospect. And thats fair, but positional value is everything IMO. The ironic part is, I hate taking WR early. Especially a small one. But if you're asking who I'd rather have, its not even a debate in my mind. Give me the guy tailor made for the new way of the NFL over the dude that's effort will go largely unnoticed and have very little impact on the game. FTR - I'm still thinking bap OLB at #9. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedro55 Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 Personally, I think this logic is poor. You draft a guy top 10, you expect him to be around 5 years. You'd hope you can find someone to get him the ball during his tenure. Just because you dont have a QB now, doesnt mean you pass on a player that you think has superstar potential. The Jets technically dont have a legit RB either. So why draft a G? The Raiders could have drafted Crabtree or DHB. It becomes about the QB. The offense. A great WR who is a little small, isn't a for sure top 10 player, gets drafted by the Jets and winds up what? A guy who is on another team before he ever becomes good. You hope the Jets find a good QB. But I'm not sold on drafting an undersized fast WR at #9 on a team who has OL issues, no QB, and no RB. Would you have drafted DHB ? If not, why draft Austin. Both are fast WRs who put up impressive numbers in college. I see Austin being just like DHB if the Jets draft him. Fast, talented, but a waste of talent on a team with a bad offense. Will Matt Flynn ever be a great QB? Who knows but the Raiders hope so. Problem is DHB is now on the Colts. If he winds up great on the Colts, what's that do for the Raiders? I see the same scenario with the Jets and Austin. Maybe they get lucky and find a QB, maybe they don't. There are far more important positions to fill on this team than a WR at #9. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedro55 Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 What does that have to do with Palantonio's list? Palantonio is not selecting the five players that would have the biggest impact if they are drafted by the Jets. Austin's stature may actually help him in this regard because he is almost a "luxury pick" which might mean he will only be picked where he can do damage. Suppose the Pats get him. Any question he would put up sick numbers if he isn't killed or do you think Amendola will keep him on the bench? A 4th round WR picked by the Pats or Packers could wind up with 80 Receptions. That's a bad argument to draft some guy early. All I'm saying is going to a team with no QB and a struggling OL means he'll be one of those WRs that gets the DHB treatment. Fast WR, but on a bad team that can't block or can't throw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernJet Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 You guys are arguing over height. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whodeawhodat Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 I thought this draft was going to have plenty of decent WR deep into the draft(rounds 3-4). do we really want to take a chance on this guy who weighs 185 wet wearing boots?(cue the argument for players drafted in the top 10 that weigh less than 190lbs....sorry tom) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastineau Lives Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 The Raiders could have drafted Crabtree or DHB. It becomes about the QB. The offense. A great WR who is a little small, isn't a for sure top 10 player, gets drafted by the Jets and winds up what? A guy who is on another team before he ever becomes good. You hope the Jets find a good QB. But I'm not sold on drafting an undersized fast WR at #9 on a team who has OL issues, no QB, and no RB. Would you have drafted DHB ? If not, why draft Austin. Both are fast WRs who put up impressive numbers in college. I see Austin being just like DHB if the Jets draft him. Fast, talented, but a waste of talent on a team with a bad offense. Will Matt Flynn ever be a great QB? Who knows but the Raiders hope so. Problem is DHB is now on the Colts. If he winds up great on the Colts, what's that do for the Raiders? I see the same scenario with the Jets and Austin. Maybe they get lucky and find a QB, maybe they don't. There are far more important positions to fill on this team than a WR at #9. I could be wrong, but I always thought DHB was more straight-line speed guy as opposed to being quick. I thought that was a particular preference of Al Davis, burners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 A 4th round WR picked by the Pats or Packers could wind up with 80 Receptions. That's a bad argument to draft some guy early. All I'm saying is going to a team with no QB and a struggling OL means he'll be one of those WRs that gets the DHB treatment. Fast WR, but on a bad team that can't block or can't throw. WE AREN'T DISCUSSING WHO TO DRAFT EARLY. We are discussing the top 5 impact players in the 2013 draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j4jets Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 You can't use Harvin as a barometer. Harvin was drafted in 2009 by the Vikings. A team who would win the division, wind up 12-4, had a QB named Favre, had Adrian Peterson as running back, and Sidney Rice as the other WR. Kind of helps you win you come into a team like that. Austin would come in at #9 onto a team with no real QB, no real WR if Holmes is not healthy, no real RB, a team not sure what it's doing and needs a lot of other help. The reality is Austin at #9 probably winds up closer to DHB and not Harvin. The Raiders sucked. DHB never lived up to his draft pick number. Maybe Austin winds up being good down the line, but then again, DHB could wind up being good on a team other than the Raiders. I love Austin, but saying he'll be an impact player on a team where everybody loves to hate on how Sanchez is the worst QB in the NFL makes no sense. You can't have a bad QB like Sanchez and expect a rookie WR with no other help on offense to put up ROY numbers like Harvin did. And if the Jets cant figure a way to find a better QB anytime soon, aka like the Raiders, Austin winds up being a guy who might show you something on the return teams, but he's on a team who has a crappy offense. Larry Fitzgerald. Think about how great he has been. Think about how he's dying in Arizona right now because of being on a team with no QB. A great WR without a QB or offense winds up being a great WR who either gets bored like Randy Moss or puts up some great meaningless numbers but doesn't help the team. I guess we shouldn't draft offense this year then.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JiFtheOracle Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 The Raiders could have drafted Crabtree or DHB. It becomes about the QB. The offense. A great WR who is a little small, isn't a for sure top 10 player, gets drafted by the Jets and winds up what? A guy who is on another team before he ever becomes good. You hope the Jets find a good QB. But I'm not sold on drafting an undersized fast WR at #9 on a team who has OL issues, no QB, and no RB. Would you have drafted DHB ? If not, why draft Austin. Both are fast WRs who put up impressive numbers in college. I see Austin being just like DHB if the Jets draft him. Fast, talented, but a waste of talent on a team with a bad offense. Will Matt Flynn ever be a great QB? Who knows but the Raiders hope so. Problem is DHB is now on the Colts. If he winds up great on the Colts, what's that do for the Raiders? I see the same scenario with the Jets and Austin. Maybe they get lucky and find a QB, maybe they don't. There are far more important positions to fill on this team than a WR at #9. DHB was a total reach who shot up the charts because of his workouts. He had nowhere near the production of Austin. Not even remotely close. Austin this year basically had as many receptions as DHB did his entire college career. Further, he's not nearly the talent, like, not even close. He's shifty, got an unreal stutter step, can make people miss and is versatile. DHB was straight line go route WR. Thats it. Thats all. There are tons of positions to fill.. I'd personally prefer the bap OLB....but this was a debate about Warmack vs. Austin (or at least it turned into one) and IMO WR is much more pressing than a Guard for this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 DHB was a total reach who shot up the charts because of his workouts. He had nowhere near the production of Austin. Not even remotely close. Austin this year basically had as many receptions as DHB did his entire college career. Further, he's not nearly the talent, like, not even close. He's shifty, got an unreal stutter step, can make people miss and is versatile. DHB was straight line go route WR. Thats it. Thats all. There are tons of positions to fill.. I'd personally prefer the bap OLB....but this was a debate about Warmack vs. Austin (or at least it turned into one) and IMO WR is much more pressing than a Guard for this team. Yeah but my issue is I think there's a larger disparity between Warmack and the other OGs to be found in R2 and beyond vs Austin and the possible WRs still around R2 and beyond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedro55 Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 DHB was a total reach who shot up the charts because of his workouts. He had nowhere near the production of Austin. Not even remotely close. Austin this year basically had as many receptions as DHB did his entire college career. Further, he's not nearly the talent, like, not even close. He's shifty, got an unreal stutter step, can make people miss and is versatile. DHB was straight line go route WR. Thats it. Thats all. There are tons of positions to fill.. I'd personally prefer the bap OLB....but this was a debate about Warmack vs. Austin (or at least it turned into one) and IMO WR is much more pressing than a Guard for this team. Austin had Geno Smith as QB. DHB is second in Maryland's history for receiving yards. He was the MVP of Maryland's offense. I would say Geno Smith was the MVP of WV last year, not Austin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 Warmack + Hunter/Hopkins/Woods sounds a lot sexier than Austin + Long/Warford to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedro55 Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 WE AREN'T DISCUSSING WHO TO DRAFT EARLY. We are discussing the top 5 impact players in the 2013 draft. Depends on where the guy is drafted. Austin drafted by the Jets, isn't an impact player next year. Austin drafted by the Packers or Patriots, he could be in the running for ROY. Impact really depends on who picks the guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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