Get your hat handed to you in a labor negotiation? Cry collusion!

[Scott Dierking]

This DeMaurice Smith is a piece of work.

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--demaurice-smith-asks-agents-for-help-in-trying-to-prove-collusion-amongst-nfl-teams-012307753.html

 

 

 

NFL union leader DeMaurice Smith is asking NFL player agents to report any hint of suspected collusion among teams to keep salaries down during free agency, according to a memo from the NFLPA's executive director.

Numerous agents have privately complained about the slow pace of signings for veteran free agent players and the associated low salaries for those players. Only one player, Miami wide receiver Mike Wallace, has received a contract in excess of $10 million per year as a free agent. 

Furthermore, many free agent players have signed one-year deals in hopes of hitting free agency again next season because the market has been so poor. That has led agents to suggest that collusion has occurred among teams.

NFL spokesman Greg Aiello dismissed the notion.

"Player signings in 2013 have been characterized by robust spending and intense competition. Anyone seeing collusion in this market is seeing ghosts," Aiello said via email.

[Also: San Francisco 49ers offensive coordinator a victim of his own success]

To support his claims, Smith said the union would work to provide the most up-to-the-minute information for agents as players look for jobs.

"As you know, we are well into free agency and in the effort to provide players and contract advisors with the most accurate and updated information, we want to remind you that every agent has access to the team cap figures on the password-protected portion of www.nflplayers.com," Smith wrote in the memo.

"In the effort to increase the information available and to provide timely team salary cap information, we will post the most recent figures, as per our calculations, daily at 8 a.m., noon, 4 p.m. and 8 p.m. eastern on http://nflplayers.com/cap.

"We have heard anecdotally that some teams are inaccurately reporting that they are facing salary-cap restrictions on resigning veteran players. While this is a common allegation and teams are free to make their own determinations on signing players, we provide this information to aid you in accurately evaluating each team's actual salary cap room.

"Finally, we have heard reports of a concern that teams are working in concert to 'peg,' 'rig' or 'set' market prices on player contracts. If you believe or have information that the teams have been colluding during this free agency period, you have a responsibility as an agent of the NFLPA to come forward and share that information with us."

[Also: Geno Smith laughs off uncomplimentary scouting report]

Claims of collusion could be extremely serious, although the NFL has skirted such potential issues recently. In 2011, when the league was supposed to be in an "uncapped" year for the collective-bargaining agreement, teams set an artificial spending limit of $120 million in salary cap accounting. Washington and Dallas were subsequently punished for exceeding the cap on spending as the league claimed they changed the way certain money was accounted for.

In 2012, the NFLPA signed off on those penalties against Washington and Dallas so that the salary cap could be $120 million that season. The cap was increased to $123 million in 2013.

 

[flgreen]

Or maybe teams have finally realized that players, who were stars at one point, historically  have under achieved in their final monster contract, and it is much more fiscally productive to draft players under the new rookie cap limitations.   

 

The players union,  IMO, after all the hoopla about the new CBA, did get their butts handed to them in negotiations. 

[T0mShane]

There is nobody that doesn't believe the owners colluded.

[bitonti]

why would 32 communistic entities that share billions of tv revenues engage in collusion? It's crazy i tell ya. 

[#27TheDominator]

These players are taking one year deals for a reason.  

[Scott Dierking]

There is nobody that doesn't believe the owners colluded.

Of course they did and they do. Do you think there is a reason why teams do not sign RFA for high draft picks often? There is a gentleman's agreement there.

 

Any business is like this.

 

The NFLPA got their asses kicked and are now looking to cry foul.

[bitonti]

The NFLPA got their asses kicked and are now looking to cry foul.

 

 

I dont want to make this political but it seems when we talk about Revis it becomes an austerity or free agency becomes a labor vs capital argument.

 

This isn't the US Gov't. It's the NFL.

[T0mShane]

Of course they did and they do. Do you think there is a reason why teams do not sign RFA for high draft picks often? There is a gentleman's agreement there.

Any business is like this.

The NFLPA got their asses kicked and are now looking to cry foul.

The NFLPA looks bad because it didn't foresee the route owners would take to subvert the contract. That said, with the collusive effort being so flagrant right now, I wouldn't rest well knowing that I had a hundred pissed-off lawyer-agents looking to cobble together an anti-trust suit against me. The last thing Goodell wants is to march back in front of grandstanding congressional blowhards and try to explain why the NFL shouldn't have its anti-trust exemption shredded.

[Scott Dierking]

The NFLPA looks bad because it didn't foresee the route owners would take to subvert the contract. That said, with the collusive effort being so flagrant right now, I wouldn't rest well knowing that I had a hundred pissed-off lawyer-agents looking to cobble together an anti-trust suit against me. The last thing Goodell wants is to march back in front of grandstanding congressional blowhards and try to explain why the NFL shouldn't have its anti-trust exemption shredded.

Those lawyers/agents know the hand that feeds them and understand the rules of this game.

 

It is the DeMaurice Smiths of the world that are made to look like the stooge.

[T0mShane]

Those lawyers/agents know the hand that feeds them and understand the rules of this game.

It is the DeMaurice Smiths of the world that are made to look like the stooge.

Naturally. But, every time a player signs one of those puny one-year deals, there's an agent behind him getting ass-raped because his commission just lost another decimal point. It won't stand for long.

[Scott Dierking]

Naturally. But, every time a player signs one of those puny one-year deals, there's an agent behind him getting ass-raped because his commission just lost another decimal point. It won't stand for long.

Just watch it.

 

It will take a "Tim Raines" type of exclusion, and even then it will be muted.

[#27TheDominator]

I don't understand Dierking's point.  The players got raped, but they know the hand that feeds them and shouldn't do anything?  **** the owners.  If they can prove collusion, why shouldn't they?  If they can't prove it, why shouldn't they at least try?  We all know that the owners usually get their way.  It's the nature of the game, but I don't understand the part where they are supposed to bend over and smile while they take it.  Even more than that, I don't see why I am supposed to be happy about it.

[T0mShane]

Just watch it.

It will take a "Tim Raines" type of exclusion, and even then it will be muted.

Here's how it will play out, IMO:

You'll get 9,000 reports of hard evidence of collusion, none of them verifiable.

Some douche Congressman will appear on television to wag his finger at the NFL, to give the appearance that he cares about labor.

The salary cap will mysteriously jump 3%-5% annually after 2015.

Everybody's happy.

[Scott Dierking]

I don't understand Dierking's point.  The players got raped, but they know the hand that feeds them and shouldn't do anything?  **** the owners.  If they can prove collusion, why shouldn't they?  If they can't prove it, why shouldn't they at least try?  We all know that the owners usually get their way.  It's the nature of the game, but I don't understand the part where they are supposed to bend over and smile while they take it.  Even more than that, I don't see why I am supposed to be happy about it.

Go ahead, try and prove that owners are purposely dampening salaries. Have fun with that exercise. You will chase your tail. 

[Scott Dierking]

Here's how it will play out, IMO:

You'll get 9,000 reports of hard evidence of collusion, none of them verifiable.

Some douche Congressman will appear on television to wag his finger at the NFL, to give the appearance that he cares about labor.

The salary cap will mysteriously jump 3%-5% annually after 2015.

Everybody's happy.

You just will not have the "spikes' that happened in the past. That is what will change. Just like baseball, the owners realize they can't control themselves, and have to figure out ways in order to pride governors. 

[dbatesman]

Go ahead, try and prove that owners are purposely dampening salaries. Have fun with that exercise. You will chase your tail.

http://deadspin.com/5892791/in-the-name-of-competitive-balance-the-nfl-plays-the-bully-and-the-tyrant

[Scott Dierking]

http://deadspin.com/5892791/in-the-name-of-competitive-balance-the-nfl-plays-the-bully-and-the-tyrant

Yup, and that is now old news. And on they move

[#27TheDominator]

Go ahead, try and prove that owners are purposely dampening salaries. Have fun with that exercise. You will chase your tail. 

 

Oh.  Why bother chasing my tail?  I will just give up millions or billions of dollars instead.  Get the **** out. These guys need a reason to do some work.  I'm chasing my tail on this ******* website, you don't think it's worth it to **** with the owners just because you probably won't be able to prove it?  

[kelticwizard]

Whether the players can prove it or not remains to be seen.

 

The Federal penitentiaries are full of highly educated management and financial types who were supremely confident that nobody would be able to prove a thing.

[Scott Dierking]

Oh.  Why bother chasing my tail?  I will just give up millions or billions of dollars instead.  Get the **** out. These guys need a reason to do some work.  I'm chasing my tail on this ******* website, you don't think it's worth it to **** with the owners just because you probably won't be able to prove it?  

Every sports union continually cries "collusion", and unless there is an absurdly smoking gun (Tim Raines), nothing is ever done. Yeah, the owners act in concert. Duh!

[kelticwizard]

Scott, I don't understand your position.  You mock the union for trying to get evidence of collusion while at the same time happily admitting that of course there's collusion going on.

 

But you characterize the union as jerks for trying to do something about it.

[Scott Dierking]

Scott, I don't understand your position.  You mock the union for trying to get evidence of collusion while at the same time happily admitting that of course there's collusion going on.

 

But you characterize the union as jerks for trying to do something about it.

I mock DeMaurice Smith because I think he is an idiot. He negotiated a bad deal for the NFLPA, and now in what I can only guess is some attempt to save face, cries "collusion".

 

To say that there is collusion because there are not the huge deals that there were in prior years is ignorant to the facts of the new CBA and the piece of the pie the players are getting. He is barking up the wrong tree there-that is a reality.

 

For anyone to deny that there are not some collusions going on, would be pure folly. 

 

For someone to actually have something stick related those, would merely be wasting time.

[kelticwizard]

So you say that DeMaurice Smith is an arrogant idiot because he negotiated a contract based on the premise that illegal collusion would not be going on among the owners.

 

He should assume that the owners would be engaging in illegal acts, say "well,that's life" and base his demands on the acceptance that the owners will be breaking the law.

 

Further increasing Demaurice Smith's reprehensibility is his outright nerve in attempting to gather evidence to prove the illegal collusion that you admit is going on.

 

Do I have that right?

[Scott Dierking]

So you say that DeMaurice Smith is an arrogant idiot because he negotiated a contract based on the premise that illegal collusion would not be going on among the owners.

 

He should assume that the owners would be engaging in illegal acts, say "well,that's life" and base his demands on the acceptance that the owners will be breaking the law.

 

Further increasing Demaurice Smith's reprehensibility is his outright nerve in attempting to gather evidence to prove the illegal collusion that you admit is going on.

 

Do I have that right?

No, not at all. 

[T0mShane]

You just will not have the "spikes' that happened in the past. That is what will change. Just like baseball, the owners realize they can't control themselves, and have to figure out ways in order to pride governors.

They won't control themselves in the future, either. They're all currently ******* themselves by handing every QB with a pulse $20m per deals. The Falcons just had to cut their starting RT to re-up Ryan. The second the owners decide to jump the cap will be when Julius Peppers runs around whatever scrub RT the Falcons throw out there and knocks Ryan out for the year. Then, raising the cap will be a great idea.

[flgreen]

With all this collusion talk, 90% of the owners will still spend 90% of the money they are allowed to spend.

 

The owners are ego driven billionaires.  The security in the NFL, to prevent other owners from getting inside info, is higher then it is in congress.

 

The only thing the owners agree on is that yes, they all hate the union.  They are not going to agree on passing a player that might give them a championship, to help a division rival get him cheaper.

 

They have just discovered paying these guys  8 figure per year contracts doesn't really bring them championships, and personal glory

[Scott Dierking]

With all this collusion talk, 90% of the owners will still spend 90% of the money they are allowed to spend.

 

The owners are ego driven billionaires.  The security in the NFL, to prevent other owners from getting inside info, is higher then it is in congress.

 

The only thing the owners agree on is that yes, they all hate the union.  They are not going to agree on passing a player that might give them a championship, to help a division rival get him cheaper.

 

They have just discovered paying these guys  8 figure per year contracts doesn't really bring them championships, and personal glory

Try to tell me that Jones or Snyder would not break ranks if they feel it makes their team better and more competitive. Once one breaks ranks, it is over. 

[T0mShane]

Try to tell me that Jones or Snyder would not break ranks if they feel it makes their team better and more competitive. Once one breaks ranks, it is over.

Jones and Snyder were both handcuffed this offseason: Jones in cap hell and Snyder due to his $30 mil penalty.

[jetsjetsjetss]

its absolute collusion but to be fair the NFL wasnt gonna keep seeing these massive contracts.

[pedro55]

  I never understand the logic in some of these collusion arguments.   Many of these players aren't worth close to what they are getting paid. It's just the way it is. Or you have some stupid owner who guarantees way too much or gives some $50 million up front bonus and the guy plays a year.   Hell, Revis could get some extended contract, wind up with $50 Million in guaranteed bonus money, and then come out and be a shell of what he once was.  Cut him, oh well, he still got his money.

 

So teams start to think CBs or LBs or whomever aren't worth big bucks.  It's collusion. But pay Flacco and whomever else 20+ Million per year, he's worth it because.....  In what business does that make sense?  It's one thing if suddenly every team came together and started only spending half of the salary cap.  

It's another where people start to think certain players and certain positions just aren't worth the money.    

 

Are the owners greedy and corrupt? Of course.  But at the end of the day,  if the league starts to think CBs should never be paid more than 10 million per year, how is that collusion?   If they think some 36 year old player coming off multiple injuries isn't worth 5 million a year, how is that collusion?  And if they think they can find cheaper players in the draft and do what the Jets are doing and sign cheap players to fill some positions, how is that collusion?

 

 I am lost sometimes in the logic.  Welcome to the real business world where most companies offshore work because it's cheaper.  

So it's collusion if some NFL team thinks a rookie or some cheap 25 year old is a better investment than a 35 year old or a $15 million per year DE.   Interesting.

[flgreen]

Somebody is going to have to explain to me how this collusion thing works.

 

Do you really think that Ross calls Kraft to ask his permission to sign Wallace for over $10,000,000 ?

 

Or maybe the owners are sitting around the owners meeting with a list of FA’s names.  Decide how much they are going to be paid, and which team is going to get them?

 

Or perhaps, these guys, being very intelligent businessmen, have independently decided, that paying any single player, outside a QB 10-20%  of their total cap space is just stupid.

 

Oh My, I think I saw Ross up on the grassy knoll

[pedro55]

Somebody is going to have to explain to me how this collusion thing works.

 

Do you really think that Ross calls Kraft to ask his permission to sign Wallace for over $10,000,000 ?

 

Or maybe the owners are sitting around the owners meeting with a list of FA’s names.  Decide how much they are going to be paid, and which team is going to get them?

 

Or perhaps, these guys, being very intelligent businessmen, have independently decided, that paying any single player, outside a QB 10-20%  of their total cap space is just stupid.

 

Oh My, I think I saw Ross up on the grassy knoll

 

  I think some of these owners get stupid or fall in love with certain kinds of players or the assumption that one of these players will win it all for them, and they wind up overpaying.   When you get burned enough, you probably change what you're doing.  And really think about it in a business sense.   

Joe Flacco just won a super bowl on his rookie contract I think.  Now he's one of those $20 million per year players who really isn't in the same conversations as the Brady's or Mannings or Rodgers.  But he won the super bowl, had a couple of great postseasons, and got paid for it.   But the Ravens might never win another super bowl.

 

In a league where there is a cap, $20 million kind of kills it.   Imagine paying your QB $20 Million, your DE $15 million and your CB $13 million.  

$48 million tied to 3 players.   You have what, 49 players left to pay and only like $70 Million left to pay for them.    If half the players think they are $10 Million or more kinds of players,  you are strapped.

[Joe Jets fan]

Can somebody answer a question for me please?  I was under the impression that there was a salary cap and a bottom cap.  Meaning a team could not spend over a designated amount but also had to spend at least a designated amount?? 

[T0mShane]

Can somebody answer a question for me please? I was under the impression that there was a salary cap and a bottom cap. Meaning a team could not spend over a designated amount but also had to spend at least a designated amount??

Floor applies in 2014, IIRC.

[Bugg]

The owners may very well have colluded. But free agency is basically for less than a third of players who have careers over 3 or 4 years-those who vest in the pension and health care plans for that length. Smith had a winning hand if he fought hard for earlier vesting(vesting with fewer games on the actiive roster and possibly some credit for practice squad time) and earlier vesting for health care. Also, the failure of almost any contracts to be guranteed is a joke, along with the annual ridiculous and untrue contract announcements. Unfortunately the membership so far is impressed with such nonsense and too shortsighted to recognize their football careers are very likely a very short aprt of their work life and one that will cause them health problems later in life.