Tomlinson: Rex once said "I'm gonna punch [Belichick] in the face"

[slats]

No it isn't.  The only team that comes close is Kotite's teams, and they just were totally unprepared and untalented.  Rex's teams have talent and have just not shown up for halves of games or whole games on numerous occasions.  The Pittsburgh AFC game is the most infamous, but there have been at least 1-2 games if not more every year.

Haha! Yeah, Rex's teams are a little less prepared than Kotite's.

Objectivity. Window.

[Bugg]

No it isn't.  The only team that comes close is Kotite's teams, and they just were totally unprepared and untalented.  Rex's teams have talent and have just not shown up for halves of games or whole games on numerous occasions.  The Pittsburgh AFC game is the most infamous, but there have been at least 1-2 games if not more every year.

That first half should haunt Wrecks every day. It was inexcusable. Problem is Wrecks allows a little success to get way ahead of the task at hand.

[slats]

I am fine if my team loses in the Champ. game and they poured their hearts out with effort. In that first half, regardless whatever talent you want to talk about any positions, the Jets were not prepared. You could see that in the effort.

 

That is what is disconcerting.

Bill Parcells led the Jets to one less AFC Championship Game than Rex has, he had a 10 point lead in the third quarter of that game, and his team blew it. His hand-picked RB gained 14 yards on 13 carries that day.

Guy sucks.

[Scott Dierking]

What was in his mind was to keep trading down and get a zillion 5th-7th round draft picks, 90% of whom didn't make it as a backup for more than a year or two, let alone as a starter, still less as an all-time great starter.

 

This was total luck.  Someone could have/would have taken him; it ended up being the Pats.  If he knew anything he would have at least taken Brady with his FIRST low-6th-round pick.

 

He knew jack squat, and had him rated far, far, far lower than he had rated Kevin O'Connell.  

 

With your line of logic, winning the lottery is the residue of design.  Except in this case, unlike regular people with the lottery, every team buys draft/lottery tickets every April.  This one panned out.  His hit vs miss rate in the draft, after round 1 in particular, is among the worst in the NFL with the Browns, and for his entire tenure with the Pats.

 

If he was finding 2-3 late round gems every year, then you could argue it's the residue of design.  When he's hitting 1 out of 20 like everyone else, he's just plain lucky.  And when 1 of those 20 is Tom Brady, it is historically lucky. 

What you fail to seem to recognize is that 31 other teams had as equal opportunity to be as "lucky" as the patriots did on that pick. They had the same opportunity on intelligence of the player as the Patriots did. They didn't execute what the Pats did.

 

The Patriots ARE the ones that pulled the trigger on the pick, they nurtured the pick, they gave the pick opportunity to play, they stuck with that opportunity when their starter (former pro bowler) was ready to come back. 

 

To call that sequence luck, sounds like sour grapes. For someone who is analytical and understanding of the nuances of strategy as you, it comes off disingenuous. 

 

The lottery is a product of randomness which the player does not have control of the outcome. That is far, far, far different than a football draft. You know that. That was a lazy analogy for you.

[Scott Dierking]

Bill Parcells led the Jets to one less AFC Championship Game than Rex has, he had a 10 point lead in the third quarter of that game, and his team blew it. His hand-picked RB gained 14 yards on 13 carries that day.

Guy sucks.

You seem to dismiss what else BP did in his career.

 

Rex?

[slats]

You seem to dismiss what else BP did in his career.

 

Rex?

Parcells did less with each stop after he left the Giants.

He managed to get into the AFC Championship with possibly the best QB'ing the Jets have had since Joe Namath's 4007 yard season, while Rex has gotten there -twice- with Mark Sanchez. Think about that. I'm sure there's no quality coaching going on there at all, right? Because Parcells or Belichick would've won a Super Bowl with rookie and/or second year Mark Sanchez. Or is that completely absurd?

[Scott Dierking]

Parcells did less with each stop after he left the Giants.

He managed to get into the AFC Championship with possibly the best QB'ing the Jets have had since Joe Namath's 4007 yard season, while Rex has gotten there -twice- with Mark Sanchez. Think about that. I'm sure there's no quality coaching going on there at all, right? Because Parcells or Belichick would've won a Super Bowl with rookie and/or second year Mark Sanchez. Or is that completely absurd?

If your goal is to get to the AFC Championship game, Rex would seem to be your guy.

 

Me, my aspirations are a little greater than that. Rex does not seem to be that guy, to me, that can push a team over the top. His most recent accomplishments with the Jets show diminishing returns- which is often the case with a "player's coach". They tend to have short shelf lives at one location.

 

Rex is in the same boat as every other coach in the NFL-They have to play the cards that are dealt them. Same play them better than others. One also has to remember, that awful qb that Rex was saddled with, he signed off on that too. He sure seemed to favor that awful asset he had for a long time.

[Kleckineau]

And when Brady goes and Mallett becomes a star BB is still just a lucky bastid.

[Jetsfan80]

If your goal is to get to the AFC Championship game, Rex would seem to be your guy.

 

Even if that was the case, its ridiculous that you're dismissing this accomplishment.  If the only successful coaches in the league are Super Bowl winners, and everyone else sucks and deserves to be fired, then there's a LONG list of terrible coaches out there. 

 

The truth is somewhere in the middle.  He's not the game's best coach but he's far from the worst and deserved to be the head coach of the team this season, whether you like it or not.

 

Now that we appear like we might have a real QB we'll see if Rex backs up what I've been saying; find him a QB and he'll win a lot of games. 

[Scott Dierking]

Even if that was the case, its ridiculous that you're dismissing this accomplishment.  If the only successful coaches in the league are Super Bowl winners, and everyone else sucks and deserves to be fired, then there's a LONG list of terrible coaches out there. 

 

The truth is somewhere in the middle.  He's not the game's best coach but he's far from the worst and deserved to be the head coach of the team this season, whether you like it or not.

He did a great job in getting us there for 2 years. There.

 

My belief is that is his zenith with the Jets.

[Jetsfan80]

He did a great job in getting us there for 2 years. There.

 

My belief is that is his zenith with the Jets.

 

If you can get a team 1 game away from a Super Bowl (twice) you certainly can GET them to the Super Bowl.  It took Bill Cowher and Andy Reid a long time to get there but they finally did, and I don't think anyone is going to argue those are they types coaches that you fire before giving them an opportunity to do so.

 

One way or another you're going to get your wish.  Either he fails in the Idzik regime and gets replaced or he sticks around and gets us to the promised land.  I'd say to you this:  Enjoy the ride.

[slats]

If your goal is to get to the AFC Championship game, Rex would seem to be your guy.

 

Me, my aspirations are a little greater than that. Rex does not seem to be that guy, to me, that can push a team over the top. His most recent accomplishments with the Jets show diminishing returns- which is often the case with a "player's coach". They tend to have short shelf lives at one location.

 

Rex is in the same boat as every other coach in the NFL-They have to play the cards that are dealt them. Same play them better than others. One also has to remember, that awful qb that Rex was saddled with, he signed off on that too. He sure seemed to favor that awful asset he had for a long time.

Tannenbaum and his runner-up head coaching candidate, Brian Schottenheimer, signed off on Sanchez. Once the team traded up for and paid Sanchez, he was going to get a minimum of three years to show his worth. Rex "favored that asset" above the other QBs provided for him.

Getting to the AFC Championship -twice- with Mark Sanchez at QB suggests to me that Rex is capable of getting further with competent play at the most important position on the field. Be pretty cool if Geno turns out to be that guy, because if that's the case, Rex probably gets his extension. And then we'll see. But as far as I'm concerned, Rex overachieved those first two years. Year three the team became Sanchez-fatigued, and the front office screwed up in a major way by bringing in Tebow instead of a qualified QB in year four. If Geno really can play, this could be a surprise season for Rex and the Jets.

[Scott Dierking]

Tannenbaum and his runner-up head coaching candidate, Brian Schottenheimer, signed off on Sanchez. Once the team traded up for and paid Sanchez, he was going to get a minimum of three years to show his worth. Rex "favored that asset" above the other QBs provided for him.

Getting to the AFC Championship -twice- with Mark Sanchez at QB suggests to me that Rex is capable of getting further with competent play at the most important position on the field. Be pretty cool if Geno turns out to be that guy, because if that's the case, Rex probably gets his extension. And then we'll see. But as far as I'm concerned, Rex overachieved those first two years. Year three the team became Sanchez-fatigued, and the front office screwed up in a major way by bringing in Tebow instead of a qualified QB in year four. If Geno really can play, this could be a surprise season for Rex and the Jets.

I think it naive to believe that Rex did not have input and say into the drafting of Mark Sanchez, or it is pollyanish thinking.

 

Subsequent drafts (defensive laden) seem to indicate otherwise.

 

No one here knows for sure

[Scott Dierking]

If you can get a team 1 game away from a Super Bowl (twice) you certainly can GET them to the Super Bowl.  It took Bill Cowher and Andy Reid a long time to get there but they finally did, and I don't think anyone is going to argue those are they types coaches that you fire before giving them an opportunity to do so.

 

One way or another you're going to get your wish.  Either he fails in the Idzik regime and gets replaced or he sticks around and gets us to the promised land.  I'd say to you this:  Enjoy the ride.

Bum Phillips says hello

[slats]

I think it naive to believe that Rex did not have input and say into the drafting of Mark Sanchez, or it is pollyanish thinking.

 

Subsequent drafts (defensive laden) seem to indicate otherwise.

 

No one here knows for sure

Did he have input? Almost certainly. But he wasn't the driving force.

So was this last draft Rex's doing, too? Just curious.

[#27TheDominator]

No it isn't.  The only team that comes close is Kotite's teams, and they just were totally unprepared and untalented.  Rex's teams have talent and have just not shown up for halves of games or whole games on numerous occasions.  The Pittsburgh AFC game is the most infamous, but there have been at least 1-2 games if not more every year.

 

 

LOL!  This one is even better!  

 

The team "failed to show up for more games under Ryan than any other coach" but they had a coach for two seasons that had his team "totally uprepared."   How about Herm? I suppose that was all on Pennington?  How many games did they show up for in 2005?  Oh, injuries? Good one. I'm not sure who is worse, you or Dierking, but you take a coach that has problems that EVERYONE can acknowledge and act like he is the worst coach the team has ever had.  There is almost no possible scenario where he is any worse than the 3rd best head coach the team has ever had.  Doesn't mean they should keep him, but your comments are beyond laughable. 

[#27TheDominator]

What you fail to seem to recognize is that 31 other teams had as equal opportunity to be as "lucky" as the patriots did on that pick. They had the same opportunity on intelligence of the player as the Patriots did. They didn't execute what the Pats did.

 

The Patriots ARE the ones that pulled the trigger on the pick, they nurtured the pick, they gave the pick opportunity to play, they stuck with that opportunity when their starter (former pro bowler) was ready to come back. 

 

To call that sequence luck, sounds like sour grapes. For someone who is analytical and understanding of the nuances of strategy as you, it comes off disingenuous. 

 

The lottery is a product of randomness which the player does not have control of the outcome. That is far, far, far different than a football draft. You know that. That was a lazy analogy for you.

 

 

Who gives a flaming ****?  Belichick DIDN'T ******* pick him.  Neither did his hand picked boy Pioli who was not with the Pats at that point.   In fact, he loved the pick so much that less than a month after the draft he fired the ******* GM and most of the front office.  Seems fair. Seems like he knew what he had in Brady.  You guys are ridiculous. 

[Sperm Edwards]

What you fail to seem to recognize is that 31 other teams had as equal opportunity to be as "lucky" as the patriots did on that pick. They had the same opportunity on intelligence of the player as the Patriots did. They didn't execute what the Pats did.

 

The Patriots ARE the ones that pulled the trigger on the pick, they nurtured the pick, they gave the pick opportunity to play, they stuck with that opportunity when their starter (former pro bowler) was ready to come back. 

 

To call that sequence luck, sounds like sour grapes. For someone who is analytical and understanding of the nuances of strategy as you, it comes off disingenuous. 

 

The lottery is a product of randomness which the player does not have control of the outcome. That is far, far, far different than a football draft. You know that. That was a lazy analogy for you.

 

Yes they all had the equal opportunity to draft him, but that's like saying 31 other teams had the opportunity to select the Pats' BINGO card from the pile.  They got lucky on that one.  Had someone else pulled the trigger on him (entirely possible, as he fell in the draft), they would have nurtured nothing except Drew Bledsoe (who I think they handed a new $100M deal to in that same off-season they drafted Brady).  They gave Brady no opportunity to play until Bledsoe's lung got collapsed in by Mo Lewis, so I don't know what you're talking about there.  No one outside of Buffalo (Doug Flutie/Rob Johnson) off the top of my head, would bench the guy who's winning just because of a silly Parcells-like rule that a player can't lose his job to injury.  Coming off a 6-10 season a young kid - the 6'5" hero of the area with his accurate arm and model good looks and dirt-cheap 6th round contract - passed his way to the playoffs.  Like they'd bench him after that.

 

It's not sour grapes.  Teams get lucky.  Sometimes we do, and sometimes other teams do.  

 

If BB and Pioli really knew anything Brady would become - if they ever thought he would develop into anything more than a #2 QB - they would have certainly taken him 12 picks earlier instead of a guy who I'm not sure ever saw the field.  They didn't know that.  They knew nothing, and as other people mentioned they almost cut him after drafting him.  If they had built the team better, with better backups at that particular time, it seems he would have been cut rather than nurtured.

 

They got lucky.  It is ludicrous to suggest they knew what they were doing only on Brady when just as much "good" judgment went into the 95% of their low draft picks (as well as most of their higher & mid-round draft picks) that are/were total zeros.

 

They are lousy drafters for the most part (after round 1, when almost everyone is at least 50/50 on their picks) and got lucky.  Good for them and bad for us.  Every Patriots fan knows this.

[Scott Dierking]

Who gives a flaming ****?  Belichick DIDN'T ******* pick him.  Neither did his hand picked boy Pioli who was not with the Pats at that point.   In fact, he loved the pick so much that less than a month after the draft he fired the ******* GM and most of the front office.  Seems fair. Seems like he knew what he had in Brady.  You guys are ridiculous. 

I am treating it as a "Patriot" pick. Sperm is the one using BB's fingerprints all over it.

[Scott Dierking]

Yes they all had the equal opportunity to draft him, but that's like saying 31 other teams had the opportunity to select the Pats' BINGO card from the pile.  They got lucky on that one.  Had someone else pulled the trigger on him (entirely possible, as he fell in the draft), they would have nurtured nothing except Drew Bledsoe (who I think they handed a new $100M deal to in that same off-season they drafted Brady).  They gave Brady no opportunity to play until Bledsoe's lung got collapsed in by Mo Lewis, so I don't know what you're talking about there.  No one outside of Buffalo (Doug Flutie/Rob Johnson) off the top of my head, would bench the guy who's winning just because of a silly Parcells-like rule that a player can't lose his job to injury.  Coming off a 6-10 season a young kid - the 6'5" hero of the area with his accurate arm and model good looks and dirt-cheap 6th round contract - passed his way to the playoffs.  Like they'd bench him after that.

 

It's not sour grapes.  Teams get lucky.  Sometimes we do, and sometimes other teams do.  

 

If BB and Pioli really knew anything Brady would become - if they ever thought he would develop into anything more than a #2 QB - they would have certainly taken him 12 picks earlier instead of a guy who I'm not sure ever saw the field.  They didn't know that.  They knew nothing, and as other people mentioned they almost cut him after drafting him.  If they had built the team better, with better backups at that particular time, it seems he would have been cut rather than nurtured.

 

They got lucky.  It is ludicrous to suggest they knew what they were doing only on Brady when just as much "good" judgment went into the 95% of their low draft picks (as well as most of their higher & mid-round draft picks) that are/were total zeros.

 

They are lousy drafters for the most part (after round 1, when almost everyone is at least 50/50 on their picks) and got lucky.  Good for them and bad for us.  Every Patriots fan knows this.

They made the right move there. No denying it by luck. 

 

Otherwise, we might as well claim every SB winner as being "lucky" because of circumstances going right for them.

 

Teams should start hiring astrologers, instead of personnel scouts. 

 

You just can't have it that way. You come off as one of the dopey fans that discredit everything Patriots.

[CTM]

Hands down the best season I've ever experienced as a Jets fan.  Hard Knocks definitely added to the excitement of the season (btw - how terrible is that show now without Rex?) and that team was just fun to watch.  So many exciting games and then Rex put on one of the best 3 games in a row, on the road, defensive game plans to shut down 3 SB winning Qb's that this league has ever seen.

 

 

You are disgusting

[#27TheDominator]

BTW- Bill Bellichick DRAFTED Tom Brady. Any other coach and GM could have done the same. He saw the talent, he nurtured it. 

 

 

I am treating it as a "Patriot" pick. Sperm is the one using BB's fingerprints all over it.

 

Naive?  Misguided?  Disingenuous?  AGENDA!

[slats]

They made the right move there. No denying it by luck. 

 

Otherwise, we might as well claim every SB winner as being "lucky" because of circumstances going right for them.

 

Teams should start hiring astrologers, instead of personnel scouts. 

 

You just can't have it that way. You come off as one of the dopey fans that discredit everything Patriots.

Finding a HoF QB in the sixth round is luck. Belichick gets credit for making the most of it, but they got lucky there. I think even the people involved in making the pick in the first place would agree.

[Sperm Edwards]

They made the right move there. No denying it by luck. 

 

Otherwise, we might as well claim every SB winner as being "lucky" because of circumstances going right for them.

 

Teams should start hiring astrologers, instead of personnel scouts. 

 

You just can't have it that way. You come off as one of the dopey fans that discredit everything Patriots.

 

Your first sentence is all I was saying.  I don't know why you were arguing it in the first place.

The rest is ridiculous.  Hitting on one player in one draft is hardly the same as all the other things done in the thousands of hours spent in preparation of and during every season.

[Scott Dierking]

Your first sentence is all I was saying.  I don't know why you were arguing it in the first place.

The rest is ridiculous.  Hitting on one player in one draft is hardly the same as all the other things done in the thousands of hours spent in preparation of and during every season.

We will have to agree to disagree. I totally disagree with your analogy of drafting players being akin to playing the lottery.

[Sperm Edwards]

We will have to agree to disagree. I totally disagree with your analogy of drafting players being akin to playing the lottery.

 

Drafting players in general is not like playing the lottery.  Drafting Tom Brady with the 199th pick, and having that season coincide with a lack of QB depth on the roster, is akin to winning it though.

 

Agree to disagree if you like.

[Scott Dierking]

Finding a HoF QB in the sixth round is luck. Belichick gets credit for making the most of it, but they got lucky there. I think even the people involved in making the pick in the first place would agree.

I could just as easily say then, and be correct by how you validate things, that Rex's first AFCGG was entirely by luck.

 

Teams rolled over for them (indianapolis namely), in order to pave a spot in the playoffs.

 

Can't have it both ways.

[Jetsfan80]

I could just as easily say then, and be correct by how you validate things, that Rex's first AFCGG was entirely by luck.

 

Teams rolled over for them (indianapolis namely), in order to pave a spot in the playoffs.

 

Can't have it both ways.

 

I cannot comprehend how you think that is the same argument.

 

Even if the Colts "rolled over" for us, we went on the road and beat the Bengals and Chargers to get to the AFC Title game.

 

That's not luck.  That's superior coaching, especially with a borderline retard at QB.

 

Drafting a backup QB in the 6th round, having a freak injury get him into a game, and then that player turning out to be a Hall of Famer, is almost entirely luck.

 

The fact that Belichick built a solid defense, and coupling that with Brady, they won multiple Super Bowls, is NOT luck.  It's a combination of superior QB play (which they fell into, but got all the same) and a good veteran defense that Belichick built. 

 

But getting Brady in the first place?  Complete and total luck.  Big deal, lot's of teams get lucky.  But don't act like it was all part of the Patriot design that Brady was going to end up the next Joe Montana. 

 

They never knew what he'd become, they found out the same way that we did after Bledsoe got hurt:  "Wow, this Brady kid can play."  Then they said  "OK, let's build around him."  Don't know why you could possibly think otherwise.

[slats]

I could just as easily say then, and be correct by how you validate things, that Rex's first AFCGG was entirely by luck.

 

Teams rolled over for them (indianapolis namely), in order to pave a spot in the playoffs.

 

Can't have it both ways.

How many sixth round picks become HoF'ers? What is the Patriots' track record with sixth rounders even contributing in the NFL compared to the rest of the league?

They got lucky with that pick. Even they know it. The odds against finding a HoF'er in the sixth round are absurdly greater than the odds of a 9-7 team making the NFL playoffs, and therefore requires an exponentially greater amount of luck. Lol.

[Matt39]

We're so far removed from the 09/10 seasons....lets see what happens this year and judge Rex accordingly. 

[Scott Dierking]

How many sixth round picks become HoF'ers? What is the Patriots' track record with sixth rounders even contributing in the NFL compared to the rest of the league?

They got lucky with that pick. Even they know it. The odds against finding a HoF'er in the sixth round are absurdly greater than the odds of a 9-7 team making the NFL playoffs, and therefore requires an exponentially greater amount of luck. Lol.

They made the pick, so they get the accolades. They saw what others didn't. To the victor go the spoils.

 

Just the way it is.

[slats]

They made the pick, so they get the accolades. They saw what others didn't. To the victor go the spoils.

 

Just the way it is.

So no luck involved at all in finding a HoF QB in the sixth round of the draft? That's what you're saying? In your opinion, that was 100% skill, and a major factor as to why Belichick is so much better than Rex as a coach?

Just want to be clear.

[#27TheDominator]

I could just as easily say then, and be correct by how you validate things, that Rex's first AFCGG was entirely by luck.

 

Teams rolled over for them (indianapolis namely), in order to pave a spot in the playoffs.

 

Can't have it both ways.

 

 

You have, ad nauseam

[Scott Dierking]

So no luck involved at all in finding a HoF QB in the sixth round of the draft? That's what you're saying? In your opinion, that was 100% skill, and a major factor as to why Belichick is so much better than Rex as a coach?

Just want to be clear.

I can counter by asking, are you saying there was no acumen in drafting Tom Brady? That's what you are saying? In your opinion, that was 100% luck?

 

Where did I relate the drafting of Brady to something with Rex? 

[#27TheDominator]

I can counter by asking, are you saying there was no acumen in drafting Tom Brady? That's what you are saying? In your opinion, that was 100% luck?

 

Where did I relate the drafting of Brady to something with Rex? 

 

You brought into the thread.  In my business we call this "trying to walk back" your statements. I just posted it.