unbanmadmike1 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Yes, he did. But, he also couldn't afford to keep his draft picks because he was paying top dollar for veteran cast offs. I wanted Tannenbaum fired, he was horrible. But, you and madmike and others are advocating for his general style, of course "with better drafting." What veteran castoffs did I criticize Idzik for not signing?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Yes, he did. But, he also couldn't afford to keep his draft picks because he was paying top dollar for veteran cast offs. I wanted Tannenbaum fired, he was horrible. But, you and madmike and others are advocating for his general style, of course "with better drafting." So let me get this straight, Mike wants a GM that only ever signs All-Pros to team friendly contracts while drafting nothing but Hall of Famers. Why the hell didn't the rest of us think of that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Revis played great for tampa, the fact that their team didn't win with him wasn't his fault. Williams hasn't lived up to his contract. I'm not sure what the hell those two deals have to do with the jets. Why do you see every FA signing or trade as the same move? That makes ZERO sense. No, it wasn't Revis's fault they lost, and that is exactly the point. He's 1 player. Just like Byrd would be. 1 safety for 10.5M (in the year that matters, apparently) is not a good allocation of resources. And, Mario Williams had 13 sacks last year. That sounds pretty good. Bills still stink, Tampa still stinks. I'm not calling every move the same, I'm saying that paying top dollar for FAs is not a strategy that has any history of working. Your argument is essentially, "yeah but, this time it could be different." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Revis played great for tampa, the fact that their team didn't win with him wasn't his fault. Williams hasn't lived up to his contract. I'm not sure what the hell those two deals have to do with the jets. Why do you see every FA signing or trade as the same move? That makes ZERO sense. Williams has 23.5 sacks in the last two years for Buffalo which is more than he had his last three years in Houston. Again... I need to question whether or not you watch football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJets Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I said AUSTIN HOWARD was an all pro "without saying it?" What the hell are you smoking? It's a figure of speech.. You want a GM to spend on all-pros and you're angry that Idzik didn't spend on Howard. Therefore..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 What veteran castoffs did I criticize Idzik for not signing?? Every one who was allowed to hit Free Agency? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 So let me get this straight, Mike wants a GM that only ever signs All-Pros to team friendly contracts while drafting nothing but Hall of Famers. Why the hell didn't the rest of us think of that? Mad Mike's GM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbanmadmike1 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 No, it wasn't Revis's fault they lost, and that is exactly the point. He's 1 player. Just like Byrd would be. 1 safety for 10.5M (in the year that matters, apparently) is not a good allocation of resources. And, Mario Williams had 13 sacks last year. That sounds pretty good. Bills still stink, Tampa still stinks. I'm not calling every move the same, I'm saying that paying top dollar for FAs is not a strategy that has any history of working. Your argument is essentially, "yeah but, this time it could be different." You are just being an absolutist now. It's NOT one or there the other when it comes up building a team. You sign players through FA AND you build through good drafting. This GM is not doing half of that equation, or at least he's trying to despite a very mediocre first draft. The Bucs and Bills did half as well, maybe just the opposite half. Still a recipe for losing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbanmadmike1 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Every one who was allowed to hit Free Agency? So in your world Verner and Byrd (elite players in their mid 20s, are verean castoffs?) Who did tannenbaum sign who fit that profile? Did it ever cross your mind that he just signed THE WRONG players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 You are just being an absolutist now. It's NOT one or there the other when it comes up building a team. You sign players through FA AND you build through good drafting. This GM is not doing half of that equation, or at least he's trying to despite a very mediocre first draft. The Bucs and Bills did half as well, maybe just the opposite half. Still a recipe for losing. So, how does signing the top FA WR who's 26 fit into your narrative? Again, where are your examples of this plan working well. Surely, if it were a good idea, we'd have seen it time and again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 More avoiding the point... How did trading for the top CB work out for TB? How did signing the top DE work out for BUF? Again, there is no evidence that signing big money free agents leads to success. A point you've ignored, and a strategy we've seen (and you've supposedly condemned) under Tannenbaum, and a strategy you're advocating now. Wow. You pretty much have to drop the mic and walk off after a post like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbanmadmike1 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 So, how does signing the top FA WR who's 26 fit into your narrative? Again, where are your examples of this plan working well. Surely, if it were a good idea, we'd have seen it time and again. The team that just won the superbowl has been huge players in the FA market the last 3 years and they traded for a 25 year old pro bowl WR too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbanmadmike1 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 If you can't see that: Tannenbaum signed FA's to bad contracts therefore the way to win is to never sign FA's. Is faulty logic, you're lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 So in your world Verner and Byrd (elite players in their mid 20s, are verean castoffs?) Who did tannenbaum sign who fit that profile? Did it ever cross your mind that he just signed THE WRONG players? Ignoring that Verner wasn't a system fit doesn't make it not the case. I'm not denying that Byrd is a good football player. I am denying that signing him to a deal that pays him an average of 9M per year is not a good idea. Tannenbaum did sign some of the wrong players, but that wasn't the only problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbanmadmike1 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Ignoring that Verner wasn't a system fit doesn't make it not the case. I'm not denying that Byrd is a good football player. I am denying that signing him to a deal that pays him an average of 9M per year is not a good idea. Tannenbaum did sign some of the wrong players, but that wasn't the only problem. Stop viewing the contract like this is baseball. It's a reasonable contract for a player of that caliber (much better than any player Tannenbaum brought here in free agency) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbanmadmike1 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Actually it's the TRUE veteran castoffs like MJD or Donald brown or Chris Johnson that apparently Idzik wanted. And i'm against getting any of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 If you can't see that: Tannenbaum signed FA's to bad contracts therefore the way to win is to never sign FA's. Is faulty logic, you're lost. No one said that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ylekram Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 The same CBs you're blasting for their 2013 season could improve in 2014. Ones who did well in 2013 could be bad in 2014 just like some were bad in 2012. Know who wasn't good in 2012, and using your logic it seems you would have therefore been totally against going with for 2013? Rodgers-Cromartie Verner Talib Vontae Davis The 10-best list included Captain Munnerlyn. Then again, he also was on the 10-worst list the year before that and plays slot where we don't need him. CB is a dangerous position to award multi-year contracts for, especially when those players who were eligible this year were either coming off horrible seasons (Cromartie) or were 1 year removed from horrible seasons. Or in DRC's case, "inconsistent" is the nice word they use when the Eagles dump him off a worse-ranked secondary than the 2013 Jets had. Look, I'm sure one of these guys will prove to have been worth signing long-term (Revis doesn't count since he won't allow himself to be locked up long-term unless it's for $16M/year). Verner is also an exception of sorts because in the end it seems he wasn't leaving Indianapolis unless we paid him near-Revis money. Personally I think that's foolish because of his history and because we just drafted a CB #9 in the country who the team doesn't yet think badly of. just to be clear, I didn't blast any cb's. I think your thinking of someone else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbanmadmike1 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 No one said that. You've said that every page of this thread LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 The team that just won the superbowl has been huge players in the FA market the last 3 years and they traded for a 25 year old pro bowl WR too. You really want to use Seattle, who was led by 90% home grown talent, as your example? Someone's posted their roster constitution. It doesn't look good for this argument. They did trade for a pro bowl WR... That's true. He had 1 reception this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Actually it's the TRUE veteran castoffs like MJD or Donald brown or Chris Johnson that apparently Idzik wanted. And i'm against getting any of them. Idzik wanted those guys? How many of them came in for visits? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 You've said that every page of this thread LOL Haven't said anything remotely resembling that ever in my life. Only an insanely stupid or desperate person would claim that I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Stop viewing the contract like this is baseball. It's a reasonable contract for a player of that caliber (much better than any player Tannenbaum brought here in free agency) So you say. That doesn't make it true. That also doesn't mean that we wouldn't have had to outbid them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ylekram Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Verner doesn't play man-to-man. He signed in a cover 2 system that doesn't play man-to-man. Rex's corners play man-to-man. Why is anyone talking about Verner? verner has played man to man plenty. yes, he has played more zone, but he stillhas played man to man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I'm shocked at the number of jet fans defending this incompetence but I guess when I was saying this same stuff when Mike T was the GM and getting called the same things i'm being called in this thread I shouldn't be surprised. I guess the wanting to believe the team knows what they are doing is easier to accept than the reality that they don't. Calling you out on nonsense != "defending this incompetence" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 No one said that. Nobody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 You really want to use Seattle, who was led by 90% home grown talent, as your example? Someone's posted their roster constitution. It doesn't look good for this argument. They did trade for a pro bowl WR... That's true. He had 1 reception this year. John Idzik's Master Plan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 verner has played man to man plenty. yes, he has played more zone, but he stillhas played man to man And, he wound up in the tampa-2 system. Where, surely, he'll occasionally play man to man, but will be a zone corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbanmadmike1 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 You really want to use Seattle, who was led by 90% home grown talent, as your example? Someone's posted their roster constitution. It doesn't look good for this argument. They did trade for a pro bowl WR... That's true. He had 1 reception this year. Who are you talking about? Edwards? That move actually worked out. Seattle has been active in the FA market, just like Denver and the other teams that have had success in the league. You're fighting a strawman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 No one said that. You don't know that. Many people might have said that. Nobody posted it here. BURN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 You really want to use Seattle, who was led by 90% home grown talent, as your example? Someone's posted their roster constitution. It doesn't look good for this argument. They did trade for a pro bowl WR... That's true. He had 1 reception this year. Based on his arguments in this thread - 2 things are painfully clear: 1. Mike only watches Jets games and no other NFL games. 2. Mike doesn't read anything other than the New York local media coverage of the Jets and the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Stop viewing the contract like this is baseball. It's a reasonable contract for a player of that caliber (much better than any player Tannenbaum brought here in free agency) IMO there is no reasonable contract that includes paying $10M for a safety. verner has played man to man plenty. yes, he has played more zone, but he stillhas played man to man Yes, but he did not rate very highly at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbanmadmike1 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 John Idzik's Master Plan Can you please ship me over some of that green koolaid Max. Thats more wishful thinking than you can shake a stick at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Who are you talking about? Edwards? That move actually worked out. Seattle has been active in the FA market, just like Denver and the other teams that have had success in the league. You're fighting a strawman. Percy Harvin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbanmadmike1 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 IMO there is no reasonable contract that includes paying $10M for a safety. Yes, but he did not rate very highly at it. What 10M safety are you talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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