Misconception of Devin Smith: Body Catcher

[Long Island Leprechaun]

Also, if everyone here is saying that bodycatching is ok, then why was Stephen Hill blasted for it so much?

Hill played with a smaller radius than his size should have dictated and he had a tendency to wait for the ball to come to him even when it was over his shoulder. With a few exceptions, he just didn't have the confidence to go up with his hands and take the ball. That's simply deadly against NFL corners and results in dropped balls. Perhaps he just got gun-shy from being hit over the middle. That's how he looked as a receiver.

[JetsFanInDenver]

Also, if everyone here is saying that bodycatching is ok, then why was Stephen Hill blasted for it so much?

 

Very well said. It's an irony that the people who slammed Stephen Hill for body catching are now justifying it.

[JetsFanInDenver]

I am ok with the JETS picking him in the 2nd round.

 

I like that Devin Smith is a playmaker. I like the fact that he is a  home run hitter. But i am also aware of the fact that while he will see the field for decent amount of snaps in his rookie year he is far from  a finished product as yet and there needs to be a lot of work put on it.

[kmnj]

he is no djax-djax is faster and had a 1000+yard season in college

 

going to be lots of folks calling him stephen hill part two when it is all said and done

[win4ever]

Great thread 4ever! 

 

As a Buckeye fan, the "big" plays I remembered were the game changers when Devin was alone down field waiting for the ball, and those were body catches, but as you pointed out, he was catching a rainbow similar to a punt and that was correct for the throw...  

 

Also why I think he will be a perfect fit on the Jets, if defenses focus on Marshall and Decker and let Smith get loose it will be fun for the Jet's since all three QB's have the arm to get the ball downfield and that is the type of play that turns the game... (we have seen our share on the other side in the last few years)

 

Plus Kerley and/or Amaro will be open check down options and Posey will be in the hunt as well

 

Thanks.   Yeah, there are a couple of plays in his highlights where he's body catching the ball, but as you say, those were like punts with him already well behind the defense.  It'll be interesting to see how teams approach him at first, because the best course of action is to lay off and have him prove that he can beat you with the short routes.  But I think he can do that, given enough volume, and then things get interesting for sure.  

 

I like him a whole lot more than Kerley in the slot.  I don't think Kerley adds any second tier dimension worry to a DC's gameplan, whereas Smith would.  I read Chan loves the 11 personnel a lot, and that could also mean some screens as well, since wherever he sets up, he'll have a pretty good blocker around in Marshall/Decker/Amaro (all big bodied guys that can block CBs decently) which should also draw the defense up.  

 

On a pure talent for talent evaluation, DGB was the better choice, but Smith is the far better fit for this offense.  He's under-rated for a variety of reasons.  His production is somewhat limited by the system and the QB (tons of RBs catch passes from the Urban spread style, and Barret wasn't as good throwing the deep pass as Jones eventually was) so it's easier to dismiss the stats at first glance.  Also, didn't help that the Big 10 was horrible, besides Michigan State.  Most of these games were over by the second quarter, and they were in run mode.  

 

+1

Laveranues Coles was a notorious body catcher, jumping for balls thrown chest high and catching them in his gut. He did okay.

Devin Smith's unwillingness to block is a bit of a concern, might be a sign that he's not fond of contact. I'm very excited to see him play, and how teams play him. Pressing him at the LOS is dangerous because of his speed. If he gets past that press, he could be gone. If he's on the field as the team's third or fourth WR, their opponent isn't going to move one of their top corners off of Decker or Marshall to cover him. I think most teams will be forced to keep a safety back whenever he's on the field - something new when defending against the Jets.

I liked this pick a lot. Looks like a great prospect, and a perfect compliment to the team's WR corps.

 

Yeah, it's really been a long time since we're going to have enough good WRs that force the other team to game plan against us.  I think for the last three or four years, they really didn't even need a game plan because we didn't have guys that could beat you one on one consistently enough.  Holmes was that guy when healthy and without a contract, but once he declined, teams could just go for the rush, and not worry much about the WRs.  It was almost like, we couldn't do much about it, other than take risks (which obviously led to high turnovers) because we weren't good enough.  Now, I don't think that's the case, and teams are going to have to pick and choose what they take away, while facing a good danger from the decision.  

 

Take away Marshall by double teaming him?  Decker/Amaro/Smith are mismatches now.  

Take away Decker/Marshall by having LBs run the underneath area?  Now, you are weak on the run game, and still face Amaro/Smith.  

 

I think in years past, it was take away the No. 1 guy (Holmes/Decker), and then we were basically down to hoping Kerley could run across the field before the rush got to the QB, or throw a risky pass to a guy that can't get separation.  

 

It was sad to see guys literally off the street come in and look like an improvement.  Nelson, just doing nothing, comes in a first and we're like "What? A big guy that can catch if the pass is near him?  Do we have a breakout guy?"  Salas too, another one no one cared about, soon as he steps in "Wtf is this? A screen play that goes for positive yards? YAC?"  Usually, when people pick guys off that no one wants, it's after some time that they look like improvements, after they made some changes, or got comfortable with the QB, but we were so horrible, that pretty much anyone seemed like an improvement.  

 

 

Hill played with a smaller radius than his size should have dictated and he had a tendency to wait for the ball to come to him even when it was over his shoulder. With a few exceptions, he just didn't have the confidence to go up with his hands and take the ball. That's simply deadly against NFL corners and results in dropped balls. Perhaps he just got gun-shy from being hit over the middle. That's how he looked as a receiver.

 

Yeah, Hill really didn't take advantage of his size or speed.  He jumped for absolutely no reason at times, and was a horrible body catcher in traffic when he could've jumped up for a ball and had a much better shot at making the catch.  I think part of the reason was that drop in NE, which all but cost us the game.  I think before that, he was developing somewhat, but after that he was playing scared to drop the pass.  Yeah, it also didn't help that apparently the defenseless WR rule didn't apply to him, consistently got knocked out trying to make a catch, and never seemed to get a call go his way.  I think there was a Titans game, where he went up to catch the first pass of the game deep, just trying to make a play on the ball, and got interfered with, and then absolutely leveled and knocked out, ball intercepted, and he got called for the penalty for offensive PI I think.  

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

Also, if everyone here is saying that bodycatching is ok, then why was Stephen Hill blasted for it so much?

 

At OSU, Smith caught long (30-50 yards) high arcing throws, Hill tried to body catch short and straight throws so when his timing was off (most of the time), the ball bounced off his body, resulting in an incompletion or interception

[detectivekimble]

he is no djax-djax is faster and had a 1000+yard season in college

 

going to be lots of folks calling him stephen hill part two when it is all said and done

 

DJax is also 3" shorter and 30lbs lighter.

[Villain The Foe]

for me the question on smith is how he will be able to handle press coverage/physical defense. didn't see any examples of that.

Not really sure, however, you can always put him in motion in order to limit press coverage or even have Smith line up off the ball while at the line of scrimmage in order to give him a cleaner release once the ball is hiked. There's ways to help him either get off or avoid press man. 

 

What I will say is that I dont believe that Devin Smith is a passive or "soft" football player given that he was arguably the best Gunner in all of college football. This is a Gunner's job: 

 

"In American football, a gunner, also known as a shooter, flyer, headhunter, or kamikaze, is a player on kickoffs and punts who specializes in running down the sideline very quickly in an attempt to tackle the kick or punt returner.^[1][2] Gunners must have several techniques in order to break away or "shed" blockers, and have good agility in order to change their running direction quickly. Gunners on the punt team also must be able to block or catch.^[3]

Gunners typically also play positions as defensive backs, wide receivers, or running back when not on special teams, often as backups.

Gunner may also refer to the one or two players assigned to block the gunner of the punting team.

The NFL Pro Bowl features a "Special Teamer" position, along with a kicker, punter, and kick returner. This is often the gunner considered to be among the best. Steve Tasker, a 7-time Pro Bowler, is considered to be one of the top gunners in NFL history.^[4]"

 

I dont Think Smith will have a problem handling physical corners given what his job was on special teams. His physical nature seems to be more Steve Smith than OchoCinco for example. 

[#27TheDominator]

He totally body caught these. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, there you go. Finally! 

 

 

 

Maybe not a body catcher, but the nfl.com profile (Brandt?) says this: 

 

Weaknesses

Lacks natural, soft hands. Will double catch and corral throws into body.

 

Those stills are just a few plays, but go down them.  The first one seems fine, but it is a strange angle and it is difficult to even tell where the ball is coming from. The second one he is letting hit his wrists.  That ball is going to need to be cradled into his body. 3,4 and 5 are all good to great.  The 6th pic he is catching the top of the ball.  His thumbs close to his index finger.  Far from textbook.  The rest all look fine.  As long as you catch it, who cares?  This is really nitpicky sh*t.  These are a few plays and are generally difficult and contested.  Thing is, these are pictures to indicate that he is a "hands catcher" and this kid does not look natural catching the ball to me.  I would say that his comp is Coles.  Coles never looked natural, but he played hard, fought hard and was an excellent player.  Without the ball, Smith looks much smoother and more natural than Coles.  If we can get that out of him?  I'd be ecstatic.

[Villain The Foe]

Maybe not a body catcher, but the nfl.com profile (Brandt?) says this: 

 

 

Those stills are just a few plays, but go down them.  The first one seems fine, but it is a strange angle and it is difficult to even tell where the ball is coming from. The second one he is letting hit his wrists.  That ball is going to need to be cradled into his body. 3,4 and 5 are all good to great.  The 6th pic he is catching the top of the ball.  His thumbs close to his index finger.  Far from textbook.  The rest all look fine.  As long as you catch it, who cares?  This is really nitpicky sh*t.  These are a few plays and are generally difficult and contested.  Thing is, these are pictures to indicate that he is a "hands catcher" and this kid does not look natural catching the ball to me.  I would say that his comp is Coles.  Coles never looked natural, but he played hard, fought hard and was an excellent player.  Without the ball, Smith looks much smoother and more natural than Coles.  If we can get that out of him?  I'd be ecstatic.

Brandt has his opinion as do I. Only difference is that he gets paid for his. We can go down the list and talk about textbook, but at the end of the day its about what a guy is comfortable doing that contributes to his success.

 

Dante Fowler with his hands on the dirt on the edge has the incorrect footing behind him based on what is considered textbook, yet so many people wanted him not because of what is considered textbook but what he was able to do purely as a player. 99% of people who liked Fowler dont even know that about his game. Every WR body catches, however, this false statement that Devin Smith has a problem because he body catches is simply outrageous, yet as usual people are posting this stuff and creating threads about what a person like Brandt has said instead of what they seen themselves. I've been watching Smith closely since December, watched every game that I could find on him and I did not see that problem. I seen a guy who can track the ball outstandingly and a guy who gets his hands up at the very last moment to make a catch, limiting DB's from playing his body adjustments to the ball when they're playing him and not the ball. Elite players were known for doing this like what I have highlighted. A guy who was the best at it that just retired not too long ago is Randy Moss, Yet that's a quality that we're not hearing from the Brandt's of the world, and which is ultimately why I take opinions from paid individuals with a grain of salt, not because they're somehow dishonest, but because of their position people put too much into what their opinion is without going out and establishing their own. That's a general statement by the way, Im not saying that you haven't looked at the guy, im talking about the endless comments and threads talking about this from people yet when I spoke about Smith back in January I didn't hear anything about him being a chronic body catcher.

[Jetsfan80]

Just playing devil's advocate here.....is the fact that the college ball is smaller a factor at all?  Doesn't look like he's a body catcher based on the evidence already posted, but will we not know for sure until we see him catching NFL footballs?

[JiFtheOracle]

He's not a body catcher, per say, but I saw a lot of double catches on some of the cut ups that I watched.  But then you also get to see some catches where he straights snags it out of the air.

 

So? 

 

Sometimes he's a body catcher/double catcher and sometimes he's smooth....fair? 

[Villain The Foe]

He's not a body catcher, per say, but I saw a lot of double catches on some of the cut ups that I watched.  But then you also get to see some catches where he straights snags it out of the air.

 

So? 

 

Sometimes he's a body catcher/double catcher and sometimes he's smooth....fair? 

I agree with this.

[#27TheDominator]

He's not a body catcher, per say, but I saw a lot of double catches on some of the cut ups that I watched.  But then you also get to see some catches where he straights snags it out of the air.

 

So? 

 

Sometimes he's a body catcher/double catcher and sometimes he's smooth....fair? 

 

It is fair and it is a reason to mention it, since he does double catch a decent amount and as 80 mentioned the college ball is a bit smaller. Nobody is getting drafted that doesn't show the desired traits at least some of the time.  That is what makes people think they can be coached up.  I am more concerned with the combination of what I read and the lack of highlights of short route YAC.  Hopefully, that is scheme or the plays are there and just not emphasized.  I keep hearing about Desean Jackson, but he looks kind of linear to me.  Fast and good cuts, but not as much wiggle, which is why I like the Coles comp more than some of the others. 

[slats]

Not really sure, however, you can always put him in motion in order to limit press coverage or even have Smith line up off the ball while at the line of scrimmage in order to give him a cleaner release once the ball is hiked. There's ways to help him either get off or avoid press man. 

 

What I will say is that I dont believe that Devin Smith is a passive or "soft" football player given that he was arguably the best Gunner in all of college football. This is a Gunner's job: 

 

"In American football, a gunner, also known as a shooter, flyer, headhunter, or kamikaze, is a player on kickoffs and punts who specializes in running down the sideline very quickly in an attempt to tackle the kick or punt returner.^[1][2] Gunners must have several techniques in order to break away or "shed" blockers, and have good agility in order to change their running direction quickly. Gunners on the punt team also must be able to block or catch.^[3]

Gunners typically also play positions as defensive backs, wide receivers, or running back when not on special teams, often as backups.

Gunner may also refer to the one or two players assigned to block the gunner of the punting team.

The NFL Pro Bowl features a "Special Teamer" position, along with a kicker, punter, and kick returner. This is often the gunner considered to be among the best. Steve Tasker, a 7-time Pro Bowler, is considered to be one of the top gunners in NFL history.^[4]"

 

I dont Think Smith will have a problem handling physical corners given what his job was on special teams. His physical nature seems to be more Steve Smith than OchoCinco for example. 

Excellent point! If he's the best in college getting to the punt returner, breaking thru two guys trying to block him, he should have little trouble with press coverage. In fact, with his speed, he should welcome it. He gets past a #3 or #4 CB trying to press him, he's likely gone.

[flgreen]

Talking Devin Smith With Land-Grant Holy Land

 

By David_Wyatt  @DavidWyattNFL on May 5, 2015, 11:08a 37

 

Brian Spurlock-USA TODAY Sports

We continue to chat to the college blogs of our drafted prospects.

 

 

This weekend we spoke to Conquest Chronicles in relation to Leonard Williams, and you can read that HERE. Today we reached over to the team at Land-Grant Holy Land, a blog dedicated to the Ohio Buckeyes here at SB Nation to talk a little Devin Smith.

 

 

As I mentioned with Leonard Williams, we can do as much research as we like, we're probably not going to sit down and watch every college game they ever appeared in, generally our college blogs do, so they are a great source of information and clarification.

 

 

GGN: We've heard conflicting reports, some say Devin has great hands, some say he has bad hands, what's the truth?

 

 

LGHL:The truth lies in the middle. He has great hands, but he often doesn't focus on the follow through of his catch. In heavy coverage especially, Smith is able to really focus and bring in the ball. It almost seems that he is weakest when not tightly covered, because he will not follow through on making the catch. Buckeye fans all remember Devin Smith's spectacular, one-handed grab against Miami in the season opener in 2012 (

). He has the hands. He just needs to use them every down.

 

 

GGN: He's obviously a very fast guy who ran a lot of "go" routes. However how do you rate his route running in general?

 

 

 

Smith was the main deep threat for the Buckeyes this year. There were a lot of other young receivers who ran other routes for the team, so Smith wasn't really needed in those areas. The fact is that in college, Smith had breakaway speed, so go routes were his sweet spot. He is certainly capable of running other routes. He has the agility and the hands, and his cutting ability allows him to create space to make the catch. In the NFL, however, he will need to content with much more physical defensive backs who will aim to slow him down off the line.

 

 

GGN: He only had 33 catches last year, despite that he had 12 touchdowns. Why was he only target around 40 times all year?

 

 

Because he was double or triple covered the whole time! But for real, Ohio State has so much speed on offense. Everyone is a threat, but Devin Smith was perceived to be the biggest one. Even if he did not get every pass thrown his way, he drew enough coverage downfield to improve the odds of other receivers making plays up field. Why target the double covered receiver downfield when you can make an easy pass to an open receiver who can run?

 

 

GGN: What's the one aspect of his game that he'll need to work on the most?

 

 

Catching the ball before turning and running. Smith is so fast that he often had to stop and wait for passes to get to him, leading to him thinking about running for more yards after the catch before completing the actual catch.

 

 

GGN: People talk about the deep threat but what other aspect of his game will impress the Jets?

 

 

While he was not used much in this role at Ohio State, Smith would be an outstanding return specialist a la DeSean Jackson with his speed and his ability to create open space.

 

 

GGN: Did you get a feel for the kind of kid he is? What's his character like?

 

 

Smith stayed out of trouble while at Ohio State, but he doesn't seem to be a true leader—something that Urban Meyer highly values. Despite being an outstanding player from the start at Ohio State, he was not voted a captain by his teammates. Overall, Smith keeps his head down, works hard and doesn't run his mouth on Twitter or post- game conferences, which is a pretty good sign for a star receiver.

 

 

GGN: Is there anything else you think we should know about Smith?

 

 

Smith competed on the track and field team for his first three years at Ohio State—a testament to both his work ethic and athletic ability!

[win4ever]

Just playing devil's advocate here.....is the fact that the college ball is smaller a factor at all?  Doesn't look like he's a body catcher based on the evidence already posted, but will we not know for sure until we see him catching NFL footballs?

 

This is actually something that could be interesting.  I haven't done any research on it, so just my opinion and thinking out loud.  I would assume, it would be easier to catch an NFL ball, right?  More surface area to make and maintain contact with, akin to how it's easier to catch a basketball than a baseball (extreme example).  But the theory would be the same, right?  

 

He's not a body catcher, per say, but I saw a lot of double catches on some of the cut ups that I watched.  But then you also get to see some catches where he straights snags it out of the air.

 

So? 

 

Sometimes he's a body catcher/double catcher and sometimes he's smooth....fair? 

 

I think part of the double catching aspect can be attributed to how late he moves his arms, and can also be attributed to hand catchers because they are trying to snatch the ball out of the air, than wait for it to fall into their hands.  I'm assuming this creates a higher collision impact with the ball since his hands would be moving towards the ball instead of stationary, causing the ball to juggle more.  But yes, he does seem to double catch a decent amount, but also seems to trust his hands a lot.  I would love to see how he catches the ball over the middle more in traffic.  Most of the time, he was either going deep, or the defense was respecting his speed enough that most curl routes were wide open.  And the few times he did make catches over the middle, they didn't show many replays to see how well he caught it.  

 

I think his hands aren't that worrysome to me, it's really his intermediate route running that intrigues me right now.  If he can become a good route runner, then he's lethal.  That's really all that seems to be separating him from say Amari Cooper, IMO, but there is a major gap there in this aspect.  Cooper is probably one of the best I've seen at setting up his intermediate routes.   

 

It is fair and it is a reason to mention it, since he does double catch a decent amount and as 80 mentioned the college ball is a bit smaller. Nobody is getting drafted that doesn't show the desired traits at least some of the time.  That is what makes people think they can be coached up.  I am more concerned with the combination of what I read and the lack of highlights of short route YAC.  Hopefully, that is scheme or the plays are there and just not emphasized.  I keep hearing about Desean Jackson, but he looks kind of linear to me.  Fast and good cuts, but not as much wiggle, which is why I like the Coles comp more than some of the others. 

 

Jackson was used a bit differently, but also as you mentioned, Jackson could move laterally better.  Their 20 yard shuttle times show Smith timed faster, but I think Jackson had better vision in the open field to make cuts, reverse field, etc.  I don't think Smith has that kind of open field awareness.  I think Coles can be a really good comp as well, about the same size/speed combo.  

 

Excellent point! If he's the best in college getting to the punt returner, breaking thru two guys trying to block him, he should have little trouble with press coverage. In fact, with his speed, he should welcome it. He gets past a #3 or #4 CB trying to press him, he's likely gone.

 

He should do well with press, but I think they are going to lay off of him to start atleast.  He is unproven with the intermediate routes, so I can see him getting plenty of cushion as teams dare him to beat them underneath, so hopefully Gailey utilizes it.  Then he can run deep on routes when they are forced to move up more, and engage the safety.