Empire State Mafia: Game Thread

[StraightCash]

Dinner time, I'll probably be back once most of you are gone. Can't wait to come see how much more garbage Ape and Lily can spew.

[Integrity28]

5 minutes ago, HessStation said:

Actually, no. She's saying she thinks he's town so she's going opposite LOL wtf. 

 

If if it wasn't for the mason thing I'd totally be voting Lily right now.

No, she didn't say she thinks he is town. She's talking about behavior, I already talked about this. I just don't see it how you and Brett are painting it. Doesn't let her off the hook, but this isn't a viable defense imo.

[Spoot-Face]

24 minutes ago, Lily said:

This actually makes sense. I always see Brett as scummy and I haven't this game, so maybe I'm just backwards on him. 

Vote Brett

 

23 minutes ago, StraightCash said:

You haven't seen me scummy this game? Really? Let me go back to about Page 20 when you were nice and quick to drop a vote on me

Yeah, I was just about to say this when I read it, but Brett beat me to it.

[Spoot-Face]

18 minutes ago, HessStation said:

 

So as Lily is now quickly jumping up my scum board the only thing I have to hold onto is the Mason claim with Decker. 

that and she's voting the guy I think is most scummy. 

hmmm.

sh*t, I forgot about that.

[Integrity28]

Who revealed mason first, JIF or Lily? 

It was JIF right?

[Spoot-Face]

17 minutes ago, StraightCash said:

With 4 Mason's claimed, I don't think it's a guarantee that they are all town- even if Mafiawiki says "Mason's are town", it's 80- he can word it or do whatever the hell he wants

Isn't this called "gaming the mod" or something of the like? Speculating if the mod went "off-script", so to speak, instead of just taking everything at face value?

[Spoot-Face]

19 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

She said her D1 vote on you was a joke vote. The vote she just put on you is because she thinks you're scum. That's what I"m taking away from the exchange... I'm not sure wtf you are talking about.

I don't recall her saying it was a joke vote. IIRC, she claimed that it was a reaction test of sorts. And she just said that she hasn't seen Brett scummy this game.

33 minutes ago, Lily said:

This actually makes sense. I always see Brett as scummy and I haven't this game, so maybe I'm just backwards on him. 

Vote Brett

 

[Leelou]

6 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Who revealed mason first, JIF or Lily? 

It was JIF right?

JiF, Crusher confirmed, then Lily and Decker. 

[Spoot-Face]

18 minutes ago, HessStation said:

Actually, no. She's saying she thinks he's town so she's going opposite LOL wtf. 

 

If if it wasn't for the mason thing I'd totally be voting Lily right now.

I agree.

[HessStation]

12 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

No, she didn't say she thinks he is town. She's talking about behavior, I already talked about this. I just don't see it how you and Brett are painting it. Doesn't let her off the hook, but this isn't a viable defense imo.

I'm not painting anything, it came out of her own mouth. Who is defending what? Why are you so on edge all the sudden? 

[deckerfan]

29 minutes ago, StraightCash said:

Ape and Lily here, it's as clear as day.

 

Ape came after me hard because he wanted to get the focus off of Lily who was a high risk candidate after almost being lynched on D1.

Booooooooo

[Spoot-Face]

9 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Who revealed mason first, JIF or Lily? 

It was JIF right?

Yes, I believe it was JiF. Then Crusher confirmed him. Then Lily when she was at 6 votes--I think. Decker confirmed shortly afterwards.

[Spoot-Face]

4 minutes ago, Leelou said:

JiF, Crusher confirmed, then Lily and Decker. 

^Ninja'd

[Integrity28]

Just now, Spoot-Face said:

I don't recall her saying it was a joke vote. IIRC, she claimed that it was a reaction test of sorts. And she just said that she hasn't seen Brett scummy this game.

 

I agree, I don't recall her saying it was a joke vote back on page 16. I'm waiting for someone else to dig it up and prove or disprove that statement.

I know she said the bold, but that doesn't translate to what Brett is saying "Lily is voting me because she thinks I'm town". You wouldn't know this, but I'm a big believer in the idea that the cleanest looking players are usually the dirtiest. Why? Because scum knows more than town, so they know how to carefully navigate situations in order to pre-empt how their behavior is going to look after the fact. Whereas, townies play with less wariness, and often look bad for being wrong, because there's just no way to be town and not be wrong a bunch. 

So, like I said, the defense by Brett that "Lily is voting me because she thinks I'm town" is a grotesque spin that he's putting on her actual meaning. Doesn't make her clean, it's just an invalid defense by Brett, in my opinion.

[HessStation]

Just now, Integrity28 said:

I agree, I don't recall her saying it was a joke vote back on page 16. I'm waiting for someone else to dig it up and prove or disprove that statement.

I know she said the bold, but that doesn't translate to what Brett is saying "Lily is voting me because she thinks I'm town". You wouldn't know this, but I'm a big believer in the idea that the cleanest looking players are usually the dirtiest. Why? Because scum knows more than town, so they know how to carefully navigate situations in order to pre-empt how their behavior is going to look after the fact. Whereas, townies play with less wariness, and often look bad for being wrong, because there's just no way to be town and not be wrong a bunch. 

So, like I said, the defense by Brett that "Lily is voting me because she thinks I'm town" is a grotesque spin that he's putting on her actual meaning. Doesn't make her clean, it's just an invalid defense by Brett, in my opinion.

1. Brett is my #1 for scum heading into today

but

2. What on gods earth are you talking about and why are you defending that she didn't say something she definitely said?

and

3. Brett's defense isn't quite as strong bc the page 16 vote...even though she explains herself in detail in the actual post..she later goes on to say it was a reaction test, thus maintaining the truth behind her not thinking he was scummy all game

[BallinPB]

Whats the current vote count?

[Integrity28]

2 minutes ago, HessStation said:

I'm not painting anything, it came out of her own mouth. Who is defending what? Why are you so on edge all the sudden? 

I'm participating. I'm not "on edge", I'm trying to arrive at the right decision here.

And yes, you are both painting what she said with a different meaning. Maybe you're both stupid, I dunno... but the concept of thinking someone is scum because of how clean they've played is not new. That, I believe, is all she meant. Brett, then you, are running with it as though she said "I don't think Brett is scum, vote Brett". That's just now what I'm looking at.

I think Lily is more suspect for getting behind the ape with that vote, than she is for "voting someone she thinks is town" as you dopes are saying. She's basically echoing the weakest part of my case on Brett, and letting me do the heavy lifting here.

[CTM]

ugh.. i just re read all that mess and am not sure what to make of it.

@Integrity28 .. I'm not getting your point on Brett, you have been scum almost every game, so him being on you then and not now as a scum tell doesn't make sense. I'd say this point would be better made at him coming after me, who he's hounded almost every game and i haven't been scum

@StraightCash Where does decker fit into this ape and lilly scum team thing. trying to tie lilly to ape is kinda throwing me for a loop here and seems flaily. Lilly worded a vote scummily and tripped over her own day 1, this isn't a surprise

[Spoot-Face]

3 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

I agree, I don't recall her saying it was a joke vote back on page 16. I'm waiting for someone else to dig it up and prove or disprove that statement.

I know she said the bold, but that doesn't translate to what Brett is saying "Lily is voting me because she thinks I'm town". You wouldn't know this, but I'm a big believer in the idea that the cleanest looking players are usually the dirtiest. Why? Because scum knows more than town, so they know how to carefully navigate situations in order to pre-empt how their behavior is going to look after the fact. Whereas, townies play with less wariness, and often look bad for being wrong, because there's just no way to be town and not be wrong a bunch. 

So, like I said, the defense by Brett that "Lily is voting me because she thinks I'm town" is a grotesque spin that he's putting on her actual meaning. Doesn't make her clean, it's just an invalid defense by Brett, in my opinion.

Well, I don't ever recall her saying that it was a joke vote, on any page. So why would you say it? It kinda sounded like you were backing up Lily with a statement that I believe is false, and that you also believe is false, apparently.

28 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

She said her D1 vote on you was a joke vote.

[Integrity28]

Just now, HessStation said:

1. Brett is my #1 for scum heading into today

but

2. What on gods earth are you talking about and why are you defending that she didn't say something she definitely said?

and

3. Brett's defense isn't quite as strong bc the page 16 vote...even though she explains herself in detail in the actual post..she later goes on to say it was a reaction test, thus maintaining the truth behind her not thinking he was scummy all game

It's less about defending, more about me taking a position... I don't believe she meant what she said, the way you guys are interpreting it. Part of my case is that he's been playing too clean, and I believe she is echoing that. It's a semantics thing, and I don't believe the way Brett is defending against her is valid. Just my opinion. 

[HessStation]

1 minute ago, Integrity28 said:

I'm participating. I'm not "on edge", I'm trying to arrive at the right decision here.

And yes, you are both painting what she said with a different meaning. Maybe you're both stupid, I dunno... but the concept of thinking someone is scum because of how clean they've played is not new. That, I believe, is all she meant. Brett, then you, are running with it as though she said "I don't think Brett is scum, vote Brett". That's just now what I'm looking at.

I think Lily is more suspect for getting behind the ape with that vote, than she is for "voting someone she thinks is town" as you dopes are saying. She's basically echoing the weakest part of my case on Brett, and letting me do the heavy lifting here.

It looks bad either way, but what hurts Brett, in my eyes, is that the page 16 vote, she later clarifies as a reaction test. 

The rest of this argument is semantics, aka gfy. 

[Integrity28]

2 minutes ago, CTM said:

ugh.. i just re read all that mess and am not sure what to make of it.

@Integrity28 .. I'm not getting your point on Brett, you have been scum almost every game, so him being on you then and not now as a scum tell doesn't make sense. I'd say this point would be better made at him coming after me, who he's hounded almost every game and i haven't been scum

@StraightCash Where does decker fit into this ape and lilly scum team thing. trying to tie lilly to ape is kinda throwing me for a loop here and seems flaily. Lilly worded a vote scummily and tripped over her own day 1, this isn't a surprise

I've explained it, with more context about each game, to disprove the notion that he has a "good read on me". I'm not reposting the same points, sorry. I made them very clearly and efficiently the first time.

 

[Spoot-Face]

6 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

I agree, I don't recall her saying it was a joke vote back on page 16. I'm waiting for someone else to dig it up and prove or disprove that statement.

I know she said the bold, but that doesn't translate to what Brett is saying "Lily is voting me because she thinks I'm town". You wouldn't know this, but I'm a big believer in the idea that the cleanest looking players are usually the dirtiest. Why? Because scum knows more than town, so they know how to carefully navigate situations in order to pre-empt how their behavior is going to look after the fact. Whereas, townies play with less wariness, and often look bad for being wrong, because there's just no way to be town and not be wrong a bunch. 

So, like I said, the defense by Brett that "Lily is voting me because she thinks I'm town" is a grotesque spin that he's putting on her actual meaning. Doesn't make her clean, it's just an invalid defense by Brett, in my opinion.

And yes, I do actually remember the bolded.

Poor defense by Brett or not, he still had a valid point. Lilly voted him without explicitly stating that she thinks he's scum. And did she come up with this on her own? No. She did so, quoting you and agreeing with you, piggybacking off of your point.

Like Hess stated, if it wasn't for the Mason thing, I'd be voting Lilly right now.

[CTM]

1 minute ago, HessStation said:

It looks bad either way, but what hurts Brett, in my eyes, is that the page 16 vote, she later clarifies as a reaction test. 

The rest of this argument is semantics, aka gfy. 

haha, I get your point but the thing is I don't buy that reaction test sh*t..

my bigger problem is brett tying ape and lilly together... ape was trying to get lilly lynched despite the mason claims at end of day 1. Frustrated townie or flailing scum?

[HessStation]

Just now, Integrity28 said:

It's less about defending, more about me taking a position... I don't believe she meant what she said, the way you guys are interpreting it. Part of my case is that he's been playing too clean, and I believe she is echoing that. It's a semantics thing, and I don't believe the way Brett is defending against her is valid. Just my opinion. 

***Refer to my last post again

yeah, the actually disagreement and what it could mean is borderline, potentially insignificant anyway.

[Integrity28]

2 minutes ago, HessStation said:

It looks bad either way, but what hurts Brett, in my eyes, is that the page 16 vote, she later clarifies as a reaction test. 

The rest of this argument is semantics, aka gfy. 

It's important semantics though, because he's using it to defend himself... duh.

[CTM]

1 minute ago, Integrity28 said:

I've explained it, with more context about each game, to disprove the notion that he has a "good read on me". I'm not reposting the same points, sorry. I made them very clearly and efficiently the first time.

 

then bump it cause i missed a clear and effcient explanation. I just read 6 pages i think

[Integrity28]

1 hour ago, Integrity28 said:

I wouldn't call it a war. I'd call it predictable.

I voted him on D1, he took the chill route. I vote him again now, and add the Brett OMGUS's me when town and he's not doing it angle to my case, and as I could have predicted.... he goes OMGUS.

Tell me, seriously, if you think he's been playing his townie game. Calm, cool, collected... after 4 games of being a hot, illogical, paranoid mess. Tell me.

 

1 hour ago, StraightCash said:

Are you kidding? Your entire case against me is contingent upon going back to old games. Your entire case! I feel like you are just ******* with me, or trying to set me off. I don't see what you are trying to do here except aggravate me and flood the day with our back and forth.

 

1 hour ago, Integrity28 said:

No it isn't. 

You're lying, again.

I'll restate it one last time... and I very clearly presented my case in this hierarchy and in similar language, with similar examples: 

I am voting you primarily for pushing false pretenses as a means of steering the town, the first example I gave was after this day started, the second example was about the vig shot pac theory.

The secondary reasons I cited for voting you were because you're playing in a composed manner, not interrogating anyone like you'd try to do when scum hunting, nudging suspicion on people like you did with JIF on D1, and not showing any signs of your typical OMGUS when I prod you.

You ignored every part of this, except the part that allowed you to reference past games and dig in behind that. You are the one trying to force the case to be about past games, and in doing so creating far more of a back-and-forth than is necessary. You're defending like I just put you at L2, because the primary part of my case struck a nerve.

I don't really have anything else to discuss with you. You're burying my case with each response, as scum often does when I case them strong.

Now, everyone else gets to react. 

 

@CTM

[CTM]

2 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

It's important semantics though, because he's using it to defend himself... duh.

omg why is lilly's vote and rational being argued about so much by either side lol.. just stfu already

[HessStation]

2 minutes ago, CTM said:

haha, I get your point but the thing is I don't buy that reaction test sh*t..

my bigger problem is brett tying ape and lilly together... ape was trying to get lilly lynched despite the mason claims at end of day 1. Frustrated townie or flailing scum?

not sure I bought it either but for all intents and p's that's a whole other argument.

[Integrity28]

1 hour ago, Integrity28 said:

Except it's not my theory that Pac's post is why a vig shot at him. I said that post is when I decided it was obvious he was scum. I didn't shoot him. I was asked why a vig would shoot at Pac, and my theory was that it removes the wifom of whether or not Pac would want to sub-out as scum. That would be town vig motivation to shoot him, if the vig can't holster. 

You used the timing thing to suggest it doesn't matter, but you misrepresented it. Unless the beers are getting to me, I'm not sure anyone is actually making the case that Pac's single post is why he got shot. If I suggested that in my ramblings, well, then it's because I've been on single dad duty all week (wife has the flu) and I'm drinking now.

 

Me neither.

To be clear, here are my theories on the subject of Pac's death...

SK would shoot Pac because he had like 3 posts, it's the least informative death.

Vig would shoot Pac to remove the wifom of whehteror not Pac would sub-out as scum.

Alternative ways he could have ended up dead are from roles like morror. 

I don't belive Pac was shot because of his "what did I miss" post, I just cited that as the moment when I myself realized he was scum using RL to hide. I may be grandstanding a bit to take credit for a hunch too (I emailed 80 a list of my D1 suspects for bragging rights).

 

1 hour ago, Integrity28 said:

Daredevil - you were 3rd party, and only called me scum after I had you pinned down = OMGUS = you didn't read sh*t about my play

Ocean mafia - I was town and fought with you the entire game because you were convinced I as scum, doesn't matter how quickly the game ended, you were a 1-track minded baboon the whole time going after me

Smurfs - actually, revisiting this one, you started off up my ass, then backed off and it was my idea to use you to decimate the town the rest of the way, CTM was the only threat in this game = you didn't read sh*t about my play in this one, regardless of what alignment I had

Pussy power - I believe I was scum in this one, and blew myself up = you had nothing to do with it = you didn't read sh*t about my play here

Saying that you were spot on is a gross exaggeration, and something that people might accept if they take a cursory glance at the roles I had... but if you look at the game play, it's pretty clear you are full of sh*t.

@CTM this post here at the bottom is the one with the context for each game, but again, this is the least important part of this whole ******* case... the prior set of posts I bumped has my case outlined clearly...

also bumping a post here where i responded to Hess, because he's been quietly chipping at me since I cased Brett

[CTM]

2 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

 

 

@CTM

ok ape, but clearly you said something along the lines of "you've been hounding me every game and i've been town most of the games" .. which ringed false to me right away as well. I didn't see where you acknowledged that in anyway shape or form and i want to know why

[Integrity28]

2 minutes ago, CTM said:

omg why is lilly's vote and rational being argued about so much by either side lol.. just stfu already

I'm scum hunting, you dipsh*t. You've got several people here, Hess standing out most, making comments about how "if not for the Mason thing, I'd vote Lily", except all his energy is going towards helping bail Brett out of the argument. That's curious to me, so I'm pressing a bit to see if I can figure out why.

Game is moving. You aren't at the center of it. I guess that's a problem?

[CTM]

2 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

 

@CTM this post here at the bottom is the one with the context for each game, but again, this is the least important part of this whole ******* case... the prior set of posts I bumped has my case outlined clearly...

also bumping a post here where i responded to Hess, because he's been quietly chipping at me since I cased Brett

yeah, still doesn't answer the you've been town most of them remark.

I'm voting brett, you don't need to convince he's off

[Integrity28]

1 minute ago, CTM said:

ok ape, but clearly you said something along the lines of "you've been hounding me every game and i've been town most of the games" .. which ringed false to me right away as well. I didn't see where you acknowledged that in anyway shape or form and i want to know why

Fair enough. I'm an idiot and a handed him a poorly worded statement to latch onto, which in turn hurts my case. I do this from time to time. Overall, the bigger point is contained in the posts I bumped. Not sure what else to tell you.