Forte, Enunwa and Amaro look to be Kings on Chan’s Chess Board

[Smashmouth]

43 minutes ago, AFJF said:

I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I'm sure he was one of the better passers in the league as a rookie on passes that traveled over 20 yards.  

So with more speed, more opportunities.

I can't see him not putting up better numbers with Chan running the offense.

http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/quarterback-air-yards/2015/

QB air  yards tells the story Geno ranked 24th in the NFL in 2014 Fitz ranked 14th in 2015 and was right there with players ranked 14th to around 9th.

If Fitz arm is so terrible How did he beat out the QB's behind him and rank 14th in the NFL. THIS IS AIR YARDS It does not include YAC so no one here is going to tell me the receivers extended the yards for Fitz with YAC.

Besides that stat Fitz had 56 passes over 20 yards last year right up there with Tom Brady who had 59 though 22 of Brady's were to Gronk who caught shorter passes and extended them with YAC. For perspective I'll pull out the big guns Rodgers had 55 Carr had 53 Palmer had 66 Stafford 52 Rivers 52 Bortles 72 (wow) how could the weakest arm in the NFL (per @slats) pull this off ?

Deep passes are all about timing not about arm strength. Fitz can throw the ball 55 in the air with no problem so its when it released as to how it may be underthrown. The Devon Smith throws could have come down to QB and receiver just not being on the same page yet since Fitz probably did not have a ton of reps to the young receiver. If QB's have to throw the ball more than 50 + yards after a given amount of time has passed in the pocket  I will agree Fitz does not have that kind of arm but in that case we are talking about passes that complete at less than a 10 % clip. Its basically a worthless stat.,

[Irish Jet]

LOL at these people who think Geno will be the QB. Get a grip guys.

[Smashmouth]

4 hours ago, Irish Jet said:

Hilarious how many people on here think Enunwa's going to be an irrelevant part of this team. Some guys were even saying he wouldn't make the team. 

Guy has immense talent and is a nightmare to defend against. Genuinely excited to see how we use him this year, he improved quite significantly over the course of the season. 

cool thing about him is you don't know if hes going to pancake your ass or actually run a pattern .The Jets are going to run the football and players like Enunwa bring a lot to the table.

[Villain The Foe]

9 hours ago, cant wait said:

Maybe not specific receivers, but more likely stack route combinations where fitz could in theory have multiple options on one side of the field depending on how the underneath/deep coverages were looking. If you watch the tape, you'll notice that fitz never moves his head so it's likely that he goes into each passing play with at least a predetermined section of the field that he's targeting

But again, thats not what Rex and MM did with Geno. What you're referring to is progressions based on combo routes. You have a 5 WR set with 3 WR's on your right side and  they're all performing slant routes of various degrees. The route combination presents multiple options based on where the safety goes. The scheme (which is what it truly is) is meant to stretch out the defense and then add pressure to the back end of the defense. Depending on where the safety decides to go in order to assist will play a huge role in where the QB is supposed to throw the ball. Thats not really predetermined "no matter what" type situations. This is more "you have three options, this is what you will generally see, if the safety does this, then you can throw here. If the safety does this, then you can throw here. If the safety does this, then you can throw here". 

 

I understand what you're saying, and there is a level of predetermination in the scheme, but its based on reading the defense, not "throwing to Percy Harvin here no matter what". 

Same situation with hot routes, you have predetermined hot routes but those hot routes only come into account after the defense has been read. Basically the WR has to either recognize the same thing that the QB does or the QB does a presnap audible and the audible will trigger the hotroute. 

 

Thats reading the defense more than anything. 

[Mogglez]

7 hours ago, Irish Jet said:

Hilarious how many people on here think Enunwa's going to be an irrelevant part of this team. Some guys were even saying he wouldn't make the team. 

Guy has immense talent and is a nightmare to defend against. Genuinely excited to see how we use him this year, he improved quite significantly over the course of the season. 

I think the Enunwa pick was the only pick outside of Pryor that I really liked from that horrendous draft.  Very happy to see him making strides.

[slats]

6 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/quarterback-air-yards/2015/

QB air  yards tells the story Geno ranked 24th in the NFL in 2014 Fitz ranked 14th in 2015 and was right there with players ranked 14th to around 9th.

If Fitz arm is so terrible How did he beat out the QB's behind him and rank 14th in the NFL. THIS IS AIR YARDS It does not include YAC so no one here is going to tell me the receivers extended the yards for Fitz with YAC.

Besides that stat Fitz had 56 passes over 20 yards last year right up there with Tom Brady who had 59 though 22 of Brady's were to Gronk who caught shorter passes and extended them with YAC. For perspective I'll pull out the big guns Rodgers had 55 Carr had 53 Palmer had 66 Stafford 52 Rivers 52 Bortles 72 (wow) how could the weakest arm in the NFL (per @slats) pull this off ?

Deep passes are all about timing not about arm strength. Fitz can throw the ball 55 in the air with no problem so its when it released as to how it may be underthrown. The Devon Smith throws could have come down to QB and receiver just not being on the same page yet since Fitz probably did not have a ton of reps to the young receiver. If QB's have to throw the ball more than 50 + yards after a given amount of time has passed in the pocket  I will agree Fitz does not have that kind of arm but in that case we are talking about passes that complete at less than a 10 % clip. Its basically a worthless stat.,

Weakest arm in the league. Most of those 20+ yarders were rainbows. They were often under thrown not because of timing, unless you mean that Fitzpatrick didn't understand how slow the ball was traveling when it left his hand, so he should've heaved it up sooner. They were under thrown because he has a noodle arm. 

[Jetster]

2 hours ago, Mogglez said:

I think the Enunwa pick was the only pick outside of Pryor that I really liked from that horrendous draft.  Very happy to see him making strides.

Enunwa could take a huge stride this year! People have to remember that this game gets easier after you learn the playbook & have some success. Quincy comes into this camp with a lot of confidence, not just his own but from his teamates & his OC.

Forte is a nightmare for defenses, he has to be accounted for. I'm seeing a lot of misdirection from Chan next year, the type of plays where you get everyone going one way & then you have a short 5 yard pass to a guy like Quincy going the other way smashing smaller players with his nasty stiff arm. If Chan devises ways to spread the ball around, the Jets might have the most physical WRs in the league. Amaro might not be able to block a DE, but get the ball to him & at 6'-5" 260 he's no fun for CBs & most safeties. That's some big boys, Marshall-Decker-Enunwa-Amaro. All they have to do is get in the way when the QB throws some screens & flairs to the flat for Forte. This offense could be fun to watch & tiring to opposing defenses when moving the chains.

[Villain The Foe]

 

[Jetmech]

Thanks. I was about to respond with the same point. Maybe knights -- at least for the slot. King is the weakest piece on the board and is most often defended, not an attacking piece. Best it can do is reduce the opposing king's squares in an end-game mating attack.

If you have a good end game your King is very effective. So you know..

[Smashmouth]

15 minutes ago, slats said:

Weakest arm in the league. Most of those 20+ yarders were rainbows. They were often under thrown not because of timing, unless you mean that Fitzpatrick didn't understand how slow the ball was traveling when it left his hand, so he should've heaved it up sooner. They were under thrown because he has a noodle arm. 

troll

[slats]

25 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

troll

Fitznoodle. 

[Ex-Rex]

On 6/5/2016 at 11:32 AM, CrazyCarl40 said:

That is if Geno can learn to go through his progressions. 

Geno's "progression" is one read and throw it anyway or take the sack. 

[Long Island Leprechaun]

36 minutes ago, Jetmech said:

If you have a good end game your King is very effective. So you know..

True. Cutting off the opposing King when marching a pawn. Usually a helper for a major piece in constructing mating attack while avoiding stalemate. Very effective? Perhaps. I'm disappointed that this title has not been corrected. More like "bishop, knight and rook on Gailey's chessboard. Gailey probably plays checkers, anyway.

[Jetmech]

True. Cutting off the opposing King when marching a pawn. Usually a helper for a major piece in constructing mating attack while avoiding stalemate. Very effective? Perhaps. I'm disappointed that this title has not been corrected. More like "bishop, knight and rook on Gailey's chessboard. Gailey probably plays checkers, anyway.

Well, Rex has Chan's number. Maybe he does play checker's....

[AFJF]

7 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/quarterback-air-yards/2015/

QB air  yards tells the story Geno ranked 24th in the NFL in 2014 Fitz ranked 14th in 2015 and was right there with players ranked 14th to around 9th.

If Fitz arm is so terrible How did he beat out the QB's behind him and rank 14th in the NFL. THIS IS AIR YARDS It does not include YAC so no one here is going to tell me the receivers extended the yards for Fitz with YAC.

Besides that stat Fitz had 56 passes over 20 yards last year right up there with Tom Brady who had 59 though 22 of Brady's were to Gronk who caught shorter passes and extended them with YAC. For perspective I'll pull out the big guns Rodgers had 55 Carr had 53 Palmer had 66 Stafford 52 Rivers 52 Bortles 72 (wow) how could the weakest arm in the NFL (per @slats) pull this off ?

Deep passes are all about timing not about arm strength. Fitz can throw the ball 55 in the air with no problem so its when it released as to how it may be underthrown. The Devon Smith throws could have come down to QB and receiver just not being on the same page yet since Fitz probably did not have a ton of reps to the young receiver. If QB's have to throw the ball more than 50 + yards after a given amount of time has passed in the pocket  I will agree Fitz does not have that kind of arm but in that case we are talking about passes that complete at less than a 10 % clip. Its basically a worthless stat.,

Interesting....I recall that being the one positive stay he had as a rookie....ill have to look again to see where I found that.

Valid point in the frequency of the deep ball, but even forcing a defense to respect it helps out a bit IMO.

[Smashmouth]

18 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Interesting....I recall that being the one positive stay he had as a rookie....ill have to look again to see where I found that.

Valid point in the frequency of the deep ball, but even forcing a defense to respect it helps out a bit IMO.

Oh without a doubt on the deep ball. Chan Gailey probably had designed deep throws to open things up underneath ...Fitz threw deep more often than I ever thought he would last year and that's smart play to keep the defense honest. Its also something we didn't do much of under Rex because the OC'ers under Rex were buffoons for the most part. Teams MUST prepare for that simply because you do it so it carries from game to game. This is a year long chess match not just single games.

Fitz took his chances last year when he was in a good position to do so. Its why he almost never turned the ball over on our side of the field, another stat that gets overlooked when it comes to Fitz. Playing the QB position smart is more than just reads its knowing field position and when to take chances. Most people here equate smart QBing with reads and progressions and it goes just a bit deeper than that. Fitz happens to be a very good pre snap read QB its the reason he gets rid of the ball quickly and steps into the pocket fearlessly. He's confident in his reads and those who want to push negative nonsense on Fitz claim he stairs down WR's which is total crap coming from fans who really don't understand the position. He's also very good at running the football and picking his spots in that category. Keep in mind when Fitz has a mismatch in his pre snap read he has the type of WR's who can take advantage of those situations and he has total faith they will make the play if he gets the ball in a spot for them, to make a play. This is why his WR's love him because he's willing to trust them to get it done. Its certainly works out more often than not.  

[cant wait]

26 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

Oh without a doubt on the deep ball. Chan Gailey probably had designed deep throws to open things up underneath ...Fitz threw deep more often than I ever thought he would last year and that's smart play to keep the defense honest. Its also something we didn't do much of under Rex because the OC'ers under Rex were buffoons for the most part. Teams MUST prepare for that simply because you do it so it carries from game to game. This is a year long chess match not just single games.

Fitz took his chances last year when he was in a good position to do so. Its why he almost never turned the ball over on our side of the field, another stat that gets overlooked when it comes to Fitz. Playing the QB position smart is more than just reads its knowing field position and when to take chances. Most people here equate smart QBing with reads and progressions and it goes just a bit deeper than that. Fitz happens to be a very good pre snap read QB its the reason he gets rid of the ball quickly and steps into the pocket fearlessly. He's confident in his reads and those who want to push negative nonsense on Fitz claim he stairs down WR's which is total crap coming from fans who really don't understand the position. He's also very good at running the football and picking his spots in that category. Keep in mind when Fitz has a mismatch in his pre snap read he has the type of WR's who can take advantage of those situations and he has total faith they will make the play if he gets the ball in a spot for them, to make a play. This is why his WR's love him because he's willing to trust them to get it done. Its certainly works out more often than not.  

The Houston Texans were the ones that claimed fitz stares down receivers, and you can see that they were correct if you watch the film