Jets set out on familiar road, hoping to avoid another dead end

[Matt39]

Just now, NoBowles said:

Agree. What should have been done is suck in 15 and accept it. There was no reason to try to eek out a few extra wins that year. But I still personally believe it was much more of a Woody mandate than a Maccagnan initiative.

It absolutely came from Woody because of the fallout of Idzik.

[JiFtheOracle]

Just now, Matt39 said:

We got "Fitz'd" because we had a veteran laden roster on monster contracts and Mac backed himself into a corner. He had no choice but to bring him back. Who were the other options? Geno? lol. Petty and Hack will never see the light of day here so its pointless to even argue it. The Jets are now flirting with Jay Cutler because they know what they have in the kids- nothing. 

Last year was going to happen regardless of which of the sh*tty QB's played. Maccagnan's  biggest mistakes were signing Revis, Cromartie, Gilchrist and Harris to big contracts back in 2015 without having a QB. 

100%.  We might have an even higher draft pick and 5 million extra dollars.  Or the outside possibly the light goes on and you find something in Geno.   Now they're legitimately considering bringing Geno back? Do you wonder why that is?  

Last year was going to happen regardless?  Tell that to Mac, Bowles, Marshall, Decker, Mangold, Fitz and all the fans here convinced the Jets were playoff bound.  

 

[JiFtheOracle]

4 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

It's difficult to decipher when your entire point is insistent on making excuses for why you're not making excuses.

It's difficult to have a conversation with people who cant grasp simple concepts. 

[JiFtheOracle]

3 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

You really think this roster is that bad  ?

Yes.  It's really bad. 

[NoBowles]

2 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

It absolutely came from Woody because of the fallout of Idzik.

It seems painfully obvious to me, but I don't know, I like to apply logic over emotion. Seems around here emotion wins out.

[Matt39]

6 minutes ago, JiF said:

100%.  We might have an even higher draft pick and 5 million extra dollars.  Or the outside possibly the light goes on and you find something in Geno.   Now they're legitimately considering bringing Geno back? Do you wonder why that is?  

Last year was going to happen regardless?  Tell that to Mac, Bowles, Marshall, Decker, Mangold, Fitz and all the fans here convinced the Jets were playoff bound.  

 

Geno won't be back. Geno seems to be a hot button item on twitter so guys like Costello and such will print it...but there's a 0 percent chance he's back with the Jets. He also cant play. I question those's football acumen who think he can tbh. Pushing a double digit sack rate through 30 starts is a guy who just doesnt have it.

You're being disingenuous  if you think Fitz's being on the roster had some long term impact on the franchise. They were ****ed way before Mac decided to bring him back mainly because of the contracts he handed out in 2015.

[NoBowles]

3 minutes ago, JiF said:

100%.  We might have an even higher draft pick and 5 million extra dollars.  Or the outside possibly the light goes on and you find something in Geno.   Now they're legitimately considering bringing Geno back? Do you wonder why that is?  

Last year was going to happen regardless?  Tell that to Mac, Bowles, Marshall, Decker, Mangold, Fitz and all the fans here convinced the Jets were playoff bound.  

 

There it is, the "Geno still may be great" card. Love that card. I PRAY, I mean PRAY they bring back Geno, it would finally free me from this franchise.

[Bleedin Green]

Just now, JiF said:

It's difficult to have a conversation with people who cant grasp simple concepts. 

Yeah, I got it, two guys took bad teams and two years later the teams were still bad.  But you know, since one has currently had the job a few months longer than the other did, it cannot possibly be compared in any way whatsoever.  I get your supposed "concept", but that doesn't make it any less devoid of logic.

[Tinstar]

4 minutes ago, JiF said:

Yes.  It's really bad. 

You don't think a decent QB could win with this roster ? Not great, but decent .

[UnitedWhofans]

20 minutes ago, JiF said:

Mac has had 2 full years to build the roster and the roster is a disaster.  But you dont see negative damage. 

 

Looks like you need basic math lessons. If a farmer has 3 apples and 2 years later still has 3 apples, how many did he lose?

[Gee Andrezzi]

2 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Geno won't be back. Geno seems to be a hot button item on twitter so guys like Costello and such will print it...but there's a 0 percent chance he's back with the Jets. He also cant play. I question those's football acumen who think he can tbh. Pushing a double digit sack rate through 30 starts is a guy who just doesnt have it.

You're being disingenuous  if you think Fitz's being on the roster had some long term impact on the franchise. They were ****ed way before Mac decided to bring him back.

Neither right nor wrong...if fitz doesn't choke against buffalo in 2015, we go to the playoffs and don't even have the schedule we had in 2016.

The overall morale of the team would have been different going into 2016, you can't predict the future but I'm willing to bet that geno as the starter wouldn't have been any worse than fitz' 2016 season.

Fitz went from the arguably the best single season in franchise history 2015 (stat wise) to arguably the worst starting QB in the league 2016. Even as bad as geno hasn't ever in a season he was NEVER that bad.

[Matt39]

Just now, Gee Andrezzi said:

 but I'm willing to bet that geno as the starter wouldn't have been any worse than fitz' 2016 season.

 

Who cares? We'd still be blowing up the roster. 

[Gee Andrezzi]

2 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

You don't think a decent QB could win with this roster ? Not great, but decent .

People really don't get how bad a game like fitz had against the chiefs can make or break a team season..especially when Bowles still gave him chances to start after 6 ints in a game lmfao

[Gee Andrezzi]

1 minute ago, Matt39 said:

Who cares? We'd still be blowing up the roster. 

The point is we delayed the inevitable (blowing up said roster) by bringing fitz back on a $12 mill deal...we could've been just as bad with geno at the helm (or good, geno did go 8-8 with a worse roster as a rookie)

[Tinstar]

1 minute ago, Matt39 said:

Who cares? We'd still be blowing up the roster. 

I'm not so sure, but I do know that I'm happy to see it done . We're in the process of going from an aging high cap franchise to a younger low cap franchise .  I'm enjoying this . If we can find a replacement for David Harris before OTAs start, I will be even more excited . 

[Matt39]

Just now, Gee Andrezzi said:

The point is we delayed the inevitable (blowing up said roster) by bringing fitz back on a $12 mill deal...we could've been just as bad with geno at the helm (or good, geno did go 8-8 with a worse roster as a rookie)

The Jets couldn't blow up the roster last year.

[Gee Andrezzi]

Just now, Matt39 said:

The Jets couldn't blow up the roster last year.

Obviously not, we went 10-6 with the same exact roster we had this year going 5-11. He had no idea what would happen in 2015 or 2016

When macc first came in as GM, he said it was a "competitive rebuild" from the getgo. Meaning he doesn't plan on tanking but he is going to rebuild the roster from certain spots. (Which is exactly what he's doing now) 

cutting out the overpaid and under performing= competitive rebuild, he isn't  planning on "sucking for Sam". If Hack somehow comes in and goes 8-8 or better and the defense is back to the level of 2015 or at least respectable... you think he's going to keep rebuilding or sign pieces next season to help Hack even more? Lmfao

[slats]

1 hour ago, NoBowles said:

Same thing could have been accomplished by cutting Geno when they signed Fitzpatrick for development.

What is that $5m in cap space that we don't have this year preventing us from doing?

 

Not the exact same. Starting Geno would've been the final determination on him. Either he could be the guy or he couldn't. While I recognize that many people have already made that determination, there's still speculation about bringing him back. That should've been over.

And $5M/year should be a quality player. It's a lot of dead cap space for a crappy QB who wound up being benched for Geno Smith.  

[NoBowles]

2 minutes ago, slats said:

Not the exact same. Starting Geno would've been the final determination on him. Either he could be the guy or he couldn't. While I recognize that many people have already made that determination, there's still speculation about bringing him back. That should've been over.

And $5M/year should be a quality player. It's a lot of dead cap space for a crappy QB who wound up being benched for Geno Smith.  

With all due respect, Jets beat writers are speculating on Geno. IF they bring him back, I'd say its got some teeth to it, but until then, every indication we have ever gotten from thsi regime is they have just zero interest in Geno.

Again, with all due respect, unless we are going to go out and spend our $50m in cap money, and that $5m prevents us from getting one more quality player, Im just not seeing the loss.

It was a calculated risk, the chance that Fitzpatrick could repeat was very low, but I still see zero downside, except for those who still believe in Geno. Of which, I am not one of.

[slats]

1 minute ago, NoBowles said:

With all due respect, Jets beat writers are speculating on Geno. IF they bring him back, I'd say its got some teeth to it, but until then, every indication we have ever gotten from thsi regime is they have just zero interest in Geno.

Again, with all due respect, unless we are going to go out and spend our $50m in cap money, and that $5m prevents us from getting one more quality player, Im just not seeing the loss.

It was a calculated risk, the chance that Fitzpatrick could repeat was very low, but I still see zero downside, except for those who still believe in Geno. Of which, I am not one of.

 

The Jets have a little over $30M in cap space, not $50. Let's keep this discussion fact-based. That $5M would represent a 20% increase in available funds. Again, hardly insignificant, no matter how hard you try to trivialize it. And that doesn't factor in the restructures of other deals to accommodate the $7M he was paid to suck last year. 

But really, another big problem is that caving to Fitzpatrick made them look weak. Mangold/Decker/Marshall won the battle with the front office and got their boy paid. That weakness could've easily played a part in Bowles' loss of the locker room last year. And is also probably a part of the reason Fitzpatrick, Mangold, and Marshall are all gone, and Decker's job is hardly completely secure. Bowles needs to retake the locker room. I lost respect for the front office on that day, I can certainly tell you that much. 

[NoBowles]

3 minutes ago, slats said:

The Jets have a little over $30M in cap space, not $50. Let's keep this discussion fact-based. That $5M would represent a 20% increase in available funds. Again, hardly insignificant, no matter how hard you try to trivialize it. And that doesn't factor in the restructures of other deals to accommodate the $7M he was paid to suck last year. 

But really, another big problem is that caving to Fitzpatrick made them look weak. Mangold/Decker/Marshall won the battle with the front office and got their boy paid. That weakness could've easily played a part in Bowles' loss of the locker room last year. And is also probably a part of the reason Fitzpatrick, Mangold, and Marshall are all gone, and Decker's job is hardly completely secure. Bowles needs to retake the locker room. I lost respect for the front office on that day, I can certainly tell you that much. 

Im really not trying to trivialize it, my point is that I don't think there is anything we could do this year that is going to change the fact that we are going to be really bad. And furthermore, I hope we don't, because it would be 2 years ago all over again, and I really hope our owner learned from that. And to that point, I don't think signing or not signing Fitzpatrick was going to change the fact that we are going to suck so bad this year. I would go so far as to say if we had gone 8-8 last year, our idiot owner may be even less likely to tear the whole thing down as he apparently seems to be right now.

 

 

[slats]

Just now, NoBowles said:

Im really not trying to trivialize it, my point is that I don't think there is anything we could do this year that is going to change the fact that we are going to be really bad. And furthermore, I hope we don't, because it would be 2 years ago all over again, and I really hope our owner learned from that. And to that point, I don't think signing or not signing Fitzpatrick was going to change the fact that we are going to suck so bad this year. I would go so far as to say if we had gone 8-8 last year, our idiot owner may be even less likely to tear the whole thing down as he apparently seems to be right now.

 

 

 

Cap space rolls from year to year under the current CBA. That $12M is money that could've been spent on a really good player instead of a scrub like Fitzpatrick. Last year, this year, or next year. As much as you're convinced that Geno sucks, I was equally convinced about Fitz' suckiness last year. It was a dumb deal. It hurt the team. The inmates ran the asylum, and they're out $12M for literally nothing. 

I don't want Geno back, either. But if he does come back, you can blame that stupid, stupid contract. 

[joewilly12]

Just now, slats said:

Cap space rolls from year to year under the current CBA. That $12M is money that could've been spent on a really good player instead of a scrub like Fitzpatrick. Last year, this year, or next year. As much as you're convinced that Geno sucks, I was equally convinced about Fitz' suckiness last year. It was a dumb deal. It hurt the team. The inmates ran the asylum, and they're out $12M for literally nothing. 

I don't want Geno back, either. But if he does come back, you can blame that stupid, stupid contract. 

Exactly Ryan Fitzpatrick did nothing to benefit this team yet so many fans and players thought he was the savior when in reality he was the piece of sh*t he had been his entire career. 

We would have won more games with Geno Smith as the starting QB. 

[phill1c]

27 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

every indication we have ever gotten from thsi regime is they have just zero interest in Geno.

Please. The only indication is your own internal headspace speculation...

[NoBowles]

3 minutes ago, slats said:

Cap space rolls from year to year under the current CBA. That $12M is money that could've been spent on a really good player instead of a scrub like Fitzpatrick. Last year, this year, or next year. As much as you're convinced that Geno sucks, I was equally convinced about Fitz' suckiness last year. It was a dumb deal. It hurt the team. The inmates ran the asylum, and they're out $12M for literally nothing. 

I don't want Geno back, either. But if he does come back, you can blame that stupid, stupid contract. 

 

If he does come back, it would make the contract look significantly worse, and I will officially go all sperm and dbatesman on Maccagnan, and it would further prove your point. I am of the mindset that they thought so little of Geno that they could not take the chance of not bringing back Fitzpatrick. Signing him now would dispel that, and make me really ask WTF they were thinking. If they don't bring him back, I know WTF they were thinking, it just failed.

[phill1c]

6 minutes ago, slats said:

Cap space rolls from year to year under the current CBA. That $12M is money that could've been spent on a really good player instead of a scrub like Fitzpatrick. Last year, this year, or next year. As much as you're convinced that Geno sucks, I was equally convinced about Fitz' suckiness last year. It was a dumb deal. It hurt the team. The inmates ran the asylum, and they're out $12M for literally nothing. 

I don't want Geno back, either. But if he does come back, you can blame that stupid, stupid contract. 

Money could have been spent on a good NON-QB player, if that wasn't clear. Someone who might contribute at some other position for many years.

[NoBowles]

Just now, phill1c said:

Please. The only indication is your own internal headspace speculation...

I honestly don't even know what internal headspace speculation is, but it sounds pretty badazzzzzzz.

[joewilly12]

Just now, phill1c said:

Money could have been spent on a good NON-QB player, if that wasn't clear. Someone who might contribute at some other position.

Those who support Fitzpatrick and Maccagnan don't see it that way. 

[phill1c]

Just now, joewilly12 said:

Those who support Fitzpatrick and Maccagnan don't see it that way. 

It's not really a "see it that way" kinda thing. If you don't spend 12 million on one particular player, you have it to spend on another.

Seriously, are there still Fitzpatrick supporters?! LOL

[RoadFan]

2 hours ago, Jetster said:

Macc didn't draft Pryor who played pretty well in 2015 & fell off a cliff last year. I guarantee you that Woodys fingerprints are ALL OVER bringing Revis back at that outrageous number. Macc tried to patch up a HORRIFIC secondary that he inherited from Idzik by going after what was available (Skrine/Gilchrist). Idzik completely botched the draft with Pryor/Milliner/McDougal, these swing & misses KILLED the Jets & forced Macc into fraud agency. Hell, Burris was a 3rd rounder & he's better than any of the scrubs Idzik drafted for the secondary. Macc also had enough regarding the Fitz situation & wasn't helped one bit by Bubba Gump Bowles anointing the 2016 starter when he wasn't under freaking contract, stupid azz! It was Macc that put a date & a time on Fitz, he was done playing around. Macc was damned if he did & damned if he didn't regarding Fitz. Had he NOT signed Fitz & we went 5-11, every f*cking Jet fan would have KILLED HIM and you know it! "OMG, if we had just signed Fitz we'd be in the playoffs!", you all know damn well how that would have played out.

This again?  PRYOR DID NOT PLAY WELL IN 2015.  He sucked.

 Almost none of you didn't notice though.  The first few weeks of that season, he made a few tackles behind the LOS and forced a fumble.  Whoopdy doo.

What all of you missed was in the Browns opener, he let the speed demon Gary Barnidge "fly" right by him for what should have been a long TD. He was three steps behind Pryor.  Only McCown or Manziel, can't remember which, overthrew him. 

Against the Eagles three weeks later, similar situation.  Ryan Mathews ran a wheel route. Pryor's responsibility.  He took a bad angle, surprise surprise, and Mathews was wide open for a long TD down the sideline...  Bradford missed him wide and threw it outta bounds.

The QBs make those throws, and Pryor is viewed as a bum, not "played pretty well."

[slats]

7 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

 

If he does come back, it would make the contract look significantly worse, and I will officially go all sperm and dbatesman on Maccagnan, and it would further prove your point. I am of the mindset that they thought so little of Geno that they could not take the chance of not bringing back Fitzpatrick. Signing him now would dispel that, and make me really ask WTF they were thinking. If they don't bring him back, I know WTF they were thinking, it just failed.

If they thought that little of Geno, they wouldn't've carried four QBs last year, with Geno as the #2 (who they eventually turned to). However much you hate Geno, they were (are?) clearly not on the same page as you. 

[phill1c]

2 minutes ago, RoadFan said:

The first few weeks of that season, he made a few tackles behind the LOS and forced a fumble.  Whoopdy doo.

Um, what else is a safety expected to do? Kick a FG?

Pryor played well, for a while, this year. He was undone as much by his enthusiasm as he was by the non-existent play of the FS, who did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING and the HOF Cornerback formerly known as "toast".

[phill1c]

1 minute ago, slats said:

If they thought that little of Geno, they wouldn't've carried four QBs last year, with Geno as the #2 (who they eventually turned to). However much you hate Geno, they were (are?) clearly not on the same page as you. 

It speaks volumes that the man isn't even on the roster and there are 10s of posts about him on this thread.

Geez, move on Geno haters!!

[NoBowles]

2 minutes ago, slats said:

If they thought that little of Geno, they wouldn't've carried four QBs last year, with Geno as the #2 (who they eventually turned to). However much you hate Geno, they were (are?) clearly not on the same page as you. 

Geno is out there for the taking, we will see if they sign him this year. If they do, you certainly are right about that. I will believe that when I see it however. I think they just happened to think Geno could fill in for a few games better than Petty could, and they thought they had something last season.

[NoBowles]

Just now, phill1c said:

It speaks volumes that the man isn't even on the roster and there are 10s of posts about him on this thread.

Geez, move on Geno haters!!

Move on Geno Lovers!