Bruce Arians on Jets' Todd Bowles: 'You're only as good as your players'

[Matt39]

18 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

Here's a fun thought experiment: hand Belichick (or Arians, or Pete Carroll, or either Harbaugh, or whoever you like) this sh*theap of a roster. How many games does he win?

Probably not much, but they'd be more competitive. 

[Tinstar]

1 minute ago, bitonti said:

That's not how it works. Bowles can name Tom Brady the starter right now that doesn't make it true. It's up to Mac to sign the players. Bowles' comment may not have helped negotiations but this is on Mac for putting Bowles in a position where he wants Fitz. At that point Petty and Geno were worthless. They drafted a QB in rd 2 and that didn't change the need for Fitz at all.

All of these are primarily Mac issues. Bowles isn't a scout. Bowles isn't a general manager.

Find Bowles a QB is Mac's #1 job and he still hasn't done it.  

Also Bowles named Geno Smith the starter going into camp, and Fitzpatrick started every game . Between the start of OTAs and the start of the regular seasonwhat happens will usually determined who starts . 1 punch proved that clearly .

[JustInFudge]

3 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Bowles can name Tom Brady the starter right now that doesn't make it true. It's up to Mac to sign the players.

Bowles' comment may not have helped negotiations but this is on Mac for putting Bowles in a position where he actually wants Fitz. At that point Petty and Geno were worthless. They drafted a QB in rd 2 and that didn't change the need for Fitz at all. 

All of these are primarily Mac issues.

Bowles isn't a scout. Bowles isn't a general manager.

Find Bowles a QB is Mac's #1 job and he still hasn't done it.  

Right.  Bowles declaring Fitz the starter had no influence on Big Mac's decision to bring him back.  No influence at all. 

 

[T0mShane]

Just now, Matt39 said:

Probably not much, but they'd be more competitive. 

Consider what Belichick would have done if Richardson was late to a meeting, or if Wilkerson didn't close down on a trap, or if Darron Lee ran the wrong way on a counter, or if Calvin Pryor was Calvin Pryor.

[bitonti]

2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I think your definition of what a coach provides is too narrow, Matt.

There's no roster where all the players follow all the rules.  

What the coaches do when the rules are broken are what's important, not preventing all sins in advance. 

There are Rich Kotite levels of incompetence (or even Herm levels) and in that situation, yes a firing is warranted. 

but there's no evidence that Bowles is that level of incompetent. 

He's a good young coach in charge of a dogsh*t roster.

 

1 minute ago, JiF said:

Right.  Bowles declaring Fitz the starter had no influence on Big Mac's decision to bring him back.  No influence at all. 

 

 

The fact that Big Mac whiffed on Hack was a much bigger factor. If Hack is Dak Prescott, there is no Fitz resign. this whole thing goes back to Mac. 

[bitonti]

3 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Consider what Belichick would have done if Richardson was late to a meeting, or if Wilkerson didn't close down on a trap, or if Darron Lee ran the wrong way on a counter, or if Calvin Pryor was Calvin Pryor.

 

Belly cheats. He isn't a genius he's a cheater. He gets dudes in his system who follow orders and can keep a secret.  

[dbatesman]

9 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Probably not much, but they'd be more competitive. 

I'm sure they would be. I'm not trying to defend Bowles, but it's funny that the default position around here is that he's holding back future superstars like Lorenzo Mauldin and Devin Smith.

[JustInFudge]

8 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Consider what Belichick would have done if Richardson was late to a meeting, or if Wilkerson didn't close down on a trap, or if Darron Lee ran the wrong way on a counter, or if Calvin Pryor was Calvin Pryor.

BB sent Revis home that one time he was late.  Revis learned his lesson and was a good by on the way to the Super Bowl.  That is until he played under Todd Bowles and started doing his nails on the playing field. 

 

5 minutes ago, bitonti said:

There's no roster where all the players follow all the rules.  

What the coaches do when the rules are broken are what's important, not preventing all sins in advance. 

There are Rich Kotite levels of incompetence (or even Herm levels) and in that situation, yes a firing is warranted. 

but there's no evidence that Bowles is that level of incompetent. 

He's a good young coach in charge of a dogsh*t roster.

 

The fact that Big Mac whiffed on Hack was a much bigger factor. If Hack is Dak Prescott, there is no Fitz resign. this whole thing goes back to Mac. 

Bowles declared Fitz the starter before the draft.  You're living in a fantasy world if you think anyone other than Fitz was taking snaps under center last year.  Baring a trade miracle for a real QB, Fitz was the starter because Todd Bowles demanded it.

Yes, Mac needs to find him a better QB but that wasnt on the cards for last year.  It's was ride or die with Ryan Fitzpatrick and that was all Todd Bowles doing. 

[bitonti]

4 minutes ago, JiF said:

You're living in a fantasy world if you think anyone other than Fitz was taking snaps under center last year.  Baring a trade miracle for a real QB, Fitz was the starter because Todd Bowles demanded it.

Yes, Mac needs to find him a better QB but that wasnt on the cards for last year.  It's was ride or die with Ryan Fitzpatrick and that was all Todd Bowles doing. 

1

Jif you are in the fantasy world dude. Bowles doesn't love Fitz he was just the best option in a terrible situation.

And it was Mac who put him in that terrible situation. 

 

if Hack (or petty or geno) was decent they would have not signed Fitz. there were many minicamp practices etc they all saw these guys. 

 

put it another way you want to fire the chef for cooking with spoiled ingredients.  How bad do all the other QBs have to be for Fitz to be the clear best option? 

[JustInFudge]

Just now, bitonti said:

Jif you are in the fantasy world dude. Bowles doesn't love Fitz he was just the best option in a terrible situation.

And it was Mac who put him in that terrible situation. 

He named him the starter the day after choking away the playoffs.  He didnt even give the offseason a chance before he picked his QB for the season.  What part of that do you not understand? 

[JustInFudge]

lmfao - Todd Bowles didnt want Fitz, guys.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/bowles-fitzpatrick-back-jets-starter-article-1.2485206

 

 

 

[T0mShane]

5 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Jif you are in the fantasy world dude. Bowles doesn't love Fitz he was just the best option in a terrible situation.

And it was Mac who put him in that terrible situation. 

 

if Hack (or petty or geno) was decent they would have not signed Fitz. there were many minicamp practices etc they all saw these guys. 

 

put it another way you want to fire the chef for cooking with spoiled ingredients.  How bad do all the other QBs have to be for Fitz to be the clear best option? 

A good chef throws the spoiled ingredients in the garbage and makes a kick-ass grilled cheese sandwich instead. 

[bitonti]

2 minutes ago, JiF said:

He named him the starter the day after choking away the playoffs.  He didnt even give the offseason a chance before he picked his QB for the season.  What part of that do you not understand? 

 

I understand that Mac put him in that position by not giving him any better options (before or after the offseason) 

if Mac had drafted some amazing QB in Apr that comment Bowles made in Jan wouldn't be relevant. 

Being a head coach is a full time, 120 hour a week, sleep on your couch type of job. Bowles doesn't have time to find a QB too. There's actually a guy Mac and a whole department of assholes whose job it is to find a QB

Bowles' job is to coach the players that Mac finds. 

the fact that FItz is the best QB Mac has found Bowles since he's been here pretty much says it all 

[bitonti]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

A good chef throws the spoiled ingredients in the garbage and makes a kick-ass grilled cheese sandwich instead. 

Is that like the Ray Lucas scenario? 

[JustInFudge]

Just now, T0mShane said:

A good chef throws the spoiled ingredients in the garbage and makes a kick-ass grilled cheese sandwich instead. 

He didnt want him, Tom.  He was force feed Fitz straight down his throat by his evil GM. 

 

[T0mShane]

Just now, bitonti said:

Is that like the Ray Lucas scenario? 

This is the Gene-Hackman-in-Hoosiers-"My team is on the floor" scenario.

[bitonti]

1 minute ago, JiF said:

He didnt want him, Tom.  He was force feed Fitz straight down his throat by his evil GM. 

1

Bowles isn't perfect but you are blaming him for player acquisition and that is not his job. 

In fact, nothing Bowles has done has been as incompetent as Mac's drafts. Devin Smith in rd 2? Hack in rd 2? 

Of these two, Mac is the weaker link. 

[JustInFudge]

1 minute ago, bitonti said:

I understand that Mac put him in that position by not giving him any better options (before or after the offseason) 

if Mac had drafted some amazing QB in Apr that comment Bowles made in Jan wouldn't be relevant. 

Being a head coach is a full time, 120 hour a week, sleep on your couch type of job. Bowles doesn't have time to find a QB too. There's actually a guy Mac and a whole department of assholes whose job it is to find a QB

Bowles' job is to coach the players that Mac finds. 

the fact that FItz is the best QB Mac has found Bowles since he's been here pretty much says it all 

No sh*t it's the GM job to find the QB.  Doesnt change the fact that Todd Bowles loved Ryan Fitzpatrick and declared him the starter the day after Fitz choked the season away. He didnt even give Mac a chance to find an upgrade.  

This isnt a debate.  It's fact. 

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, JiF said:

He didnt want him, Tom.  He was force feed Fitz straight down his throat by his evil GM. 

 

Why didn't Maccagnan discipline the locker room?

[JustInFudge]

Just now, bitonti said:

Bowles isn't perfect but you are blaming him for player acquisition and that is not his job. 

In fact, nothing Bowles has done has been as incompetent as Mac's drafts. Devin Smith in rd 2? Hack in rd 2? 

Of these two, Mac is the weaker link. 

You're cute. 

[Matt39]

13 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

I'm sure they would be. I'm not trying to defend Bowles, but it's funny that the default position around here is that he's holding back future superstars like Lorenzo Mauldin and Devin Smith.

Talents definitely the bigger issue. But Bowles' lack of self awareness, whether intentional or not is more annoying when the team blows.

[bitonti]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

This is the Gene-Hackman-in-Hoosiers-"My team is on the floor" scenario.

If the NFL were like the movies, the Jets would be the terrible city dwelling villain that every good country boy likes to see lose. 

We are the guys who go to the movies and then are like genuinely shocked when the Penguin gets beat by Batman. 

[T0mShane]

Just now, bitonti said:

If the NFL were like the movies, the Jets would be the terrible city dwelling villain that every good country boy likes to see lose. 

We are the guys who go to the movies and then are like genuinely shocked when the Penguin gets beat by Batman. 

Bitonti: "What do you expect Batman to do? He doesn't even have superpowers."

[JustInFudge]

2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Why didn't Maccagnan discipline the locker room?

Same reason he didnt ignore Todd Bowles clamoring for Ryan Fitzpatrick to the media, even though Todd really didnt like Fitzpatrick or want him as his QB?

[bitonti]

4 minutes ago, JiF said:

No sh*t it's the GM job to find the QB.  Doesnt change the fact that Todd Bowles loved Ryan Fitzpatrick and declared him the starter the day after Fitz choked the season away. He didnt even give Mac a chance to find an upgrade.  

This isnt a debate.  It's fact. 

 

I'm not debating those basic facts. But I am debating that Bowles' declaration of Fitz as the starter in January prevented Mac from doing his damn job. 

"oh well, don't have to do jack crap this offseason, cause Bowles is ok with Fitz." 

its Mac's job to get Bowles' better players, whether Bowles likes them or not isn't relevant. 

[bitonti]

3 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Bitonti: "What do you expect Batman to do? He doesn't even have superpowers."

We aren't Batman dude. We are the Penguin. 

the Jets exist to make the Pats look good. 

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, bitonti said:

We aren't Batman dude. We are the Penguin. 

The Penguin was a lot smarter than we are. 

[bitonti]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

The Penguin was a lot smarter than we are. 

Not smart enough to know he's always going to lose 

[T0mShane]

4 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Not smart enough to know he's always going to lose 

Explain Gonzaga.

[bitonti]

6 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Explain Gonzaga.

What's to explain, they are a Catholic university like Villanova, Georgetown, BC, Providence, Marquette, Notre Dame, St. Joseph's  etc.

These schools always have good basketball teams.

Just cause we haven't heard of Gonzaga in the east coast doesn't mean they are surprising. 

[T0mShane]

55 minutes ago, bitonti said:

That only happens if this year they find a QB for this new coach. In that case, Bowles (or Rex or anyone) could succeed. 

Coaching doesn't do as much as fans think it does. If coaches really were that magical, they'd be making the Andrew Luck money. 

Kaepernick was great with Harbaugh. You think Brady becomes Brady outside of that infrastructure? If Brady was drafted by the Jets, he'd be an insurance salesman right now 

[thadude]

44 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Talents definitely the bigger issue. But Bowles' lack of self awareness, whether intentional or not is more annoying when the team blows.

Bowles's game and clock management makes Herm look like Belichick

[thadude]

15 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Kaepernick was great with Harbaugh. You think Brady becomes Brady outside of that infrastructure? If Brady was drafted by the Jets, he'd be an insurance salesman right now 

So wrong

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, thadude said:

So wrong

Oh.

[thadude]

2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Oh.

5-11 the season before the greatest QB ever magically fell in his lap