The Wizard of Oz, A Wizard's Nightmare...GAME THREAD

[GATA]

1 hour ago, Smashmouth said:

sometimes you just need to look past what someone is saying and do what the game mechanics say you should do. Its real easy to go into a tirade and not make much sense when people don't believe you. I used to do that but I've calmed down the last few games and it helps me think clearer.

In this case we had to step back and ask why would scum counter claim on day 2 ? Would have been dreadfully dumb play yet most thought thats what Stark did and hes by no means a dumb player.

I did and I really wanted to but every time I extended my hand to Stark. There he was ready to slap it . So no he decided to turn the cheek no problem I turned it right back.

I didnt care that he called me scum as much as him taking snip bits and creating a false narrative. I was even telling him to chill out 

[CTM]

2 hours ago, Pac said:

Curious to see if Ape protected scum Lizzy while they shot him.  that would be fitting.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Smashmouth said:

if Ape did protect him it would have been the right choice since at the time there was no counter ... missing on one protect would not have been the end of the world

If stark countered, ape would've protected stark last night and got got anyway..

I don't have a huge problem with what stark did, just wish he communicated more clearly

[Smashmouth]

1 hour ago, D P R said:

We actually need to step back further and ask why he didn't call scum out D1. And that was dumb. 

 

he didnt call out scum on day 1 because no way scum was going to hurt us at that point. It had the feel like scum wanted to out the cop but thats just my opinion and playing into scums hands is not a good town play . We can debate this all day but in a 17 player game why out the cop on day 1 ? Even if Stark got killed we would have had LK dead to rights anyway after the death scene its not like LK was an investigation result

[Smashmouth]

29 minutes ago, CTM said:

 

If stark countered, ape would've protected stark last night and got got anyway..

I don't have a huge problem with what stark did, just wish he communicated more clearly

I dont have a problem with what stark did at all. I do have a problem with people thinking he should have done it on day 1 and possibly play right into scum's hands. I took the Counter claim for what it was and thought of my own reasons why someone would do that and no way in hell did I ever think scum was counter claiming and basically giving themselves up. I'ts ridiculous to think that was the case regardless of what Stark said I know for a fact that's why you held your vote

[BrickTamland]

Sick of the scum taking forever. 

[Gone]

Sleepzzz

[BrickTamland]

?

[Leelou]

@CTM why didn’t you vote for Lizzie? 

[Gone]

7 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

I dont have a problem with what stark did at all. I do have a problem with people thinking he should have done it on day 1 and possibly play right into scum's hands. I took the Counter claim for what it was and thought of my own reasons why someone would do that and no way in hell did I ever think scum was counter claiming and basically giving themselves up. I'ts ridiculous to think that was the case regardless of what Stark said I know for a fact that's why you held your vote

There just needs to be a distinction here cause it got muddied up before and it's happening now too.

The discussion of how to handle the situation of a claim of someone else on your role on d1 is entirely subjective.

Just because someone thinks it should have been done d1 doesnt mean it's scummy for someone to think differently and do it on d2. Honestly? Stark just had the horrible luck of being the main train on d2. Had he not been and he claimed, I think he would have been more well recieved.

This is neither here nor there. We can have a discussion about it post game but atm it furthers nothing. It reminds me of that game where we all got stuck fighting on if a claimed Miller should be lynched or not. Opinions differed greatly there as well.

In my book if someone voted stark for claiming late and sounds genuine in their stance that it wasnt credible cause it makes no sense to them, it could just be a matter of a difference of opinion. Period. It just means they looked at the situation wrong.

We should see who was playing fast and loose with that reasoning instead.

[DPR]

8 hours ago, CTM said:

Nyn explained that, you wouldn't listen

Nyn's post quoted below makes a lot of sense. It's just ironic that we lost 2 because of bad calls to not reveal on D1. There's always room for discussions regarding improvement. 

 

20 minutes ago, Nynaeve said:

There just needs to be a distinction here cause it got muddied up before and it's happening now too.

The discussion of how to handle the situation of a claim of someone else on your role on d1 is entirely subjective.

Just because someone thinks it should have been done d1 doesnt mean it's scummy for someone to think differently and do it on d2. Honestly? Stark just had the horrible luck of being the main train on d2. Had he not been and he claimed, I think he would have been more well recieved.

This is neither here nor there. We can have a discussion about it post game but atm it furthers nothing. It reminds me of that game where we all got stuck fighting on if a claimed Miller should be lynched or not. Opinions differed greatly there as well.

In my book if someone voted stark for claiming late and sounds genuine in their stance that it wasnt credible cause it makes no sense to them, it could just be a matter of a difference of opinion. Period. It just means they looked at the situation wrong.

We should see who was playing fast and loose with that reasoning instead.

Agreed. The only thing to add is that the discussions does have the benefit of clearing up any questions people have of when or when not to reveal. We lost 2 because of silly non-reveals on D1. 

[Gone]

We'll talk about it post game if you want. I prolly would have countered d1 but I know players that might have done what stark did. I actually agree with your take on it. I just thought stark looked more mixed up and lizzie seemed... cocky.

[DPR]

8 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

he didnt call out scum on day 1 because no way scum was going to hurt us at that point. It had the feel like scum wanted to out the cop but thats just my opinion and playing into scums hands is not a good town play . We can debate this all day but in a 17 player game why out the cop on day 1 ? Even if Stark got killed we would have had LK dead to rights anyway after the death scene its not like LK was an investigation result

 

8 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

I dont have a problem with what stark did at all. I do have a problem with people thinking he should have done it on day 1 and possibly play right into scum's hands. I took the Counter claim for what it was and thought of my own reasons why someone would do that and no way in hell did I ever think scum was counter claiming and basically giving themselves up. I'ts ridiculous to think that was the case regardless of what Stark said I know for a fact that's why you held your vote

 

You can keep moving in this direction if you like, but you're only doing it out of obstinance and wasting everybody's time. 

[DPR]

2 minutes ago, Nynaeve said:

We'll talk about it post game if you want. I prolly would have countered d1 but I know players that might have done what stark did. I actually agree with your take on it. I just thought stark looked more mixed up and lizzie seemed... cocky.

We're on the same page. I'm just trying to voice a little perspective for the new kids. 

[Gone]

Dpr is not suss for what went down imo. He's fine so far. I just think he saw it through the eyes of how it should have been done. He explained himself well enough so Im satisfied.

I'll try to look how others on stark's train went about it... short on time but ill try.

[CTM]

1 hour ago, Leelou said:

@CTM why didn’t you vote for Lizzie? 

Because as I said earlier when I tagged a few folks that I wanted to discuss before voting, i knew I would be around and home well before deadline, didn't realize we'd ninja hammer an important decision 

The better question should be to ask those who never unvoted stark post reveal. 

[CTM]

18 minutes ago, Nynaeve said:

We'll talk about it post game if you want. I prolly would have countered d1 but I know players that might have done what stark did. I actually agree with your take on it. I just thought stark looked more mixed up and lizzie seemed... cocky.

I would've laid low and not countered, but breadcrumbed my later counter

[CTM]

I think Nolder putting the first 2 lynches at l-1 with not great reasoning or time deliberating is also suspect. 

[CTM]

30 minutes ago, Nynaeve said:

Dpr is not suss for what went down imo. He's fine so far. I just think he saw it through the eyes of how it should have been done. He explained himself well enough so Im satisfied.

I'll try to look how others on stark's train went about it... short on time but ill try.

DPR argued genuinely I agree, but that could just be scum motivation hidden under a strategy debate where he focused on the merits of the immediate counter to legitimize his camp on stark(both can be true, he can be scum and believe there should've been an immediate counter enabling him to argue from a genuine position).. Need to reread his posts 

JiF is more troubling, he never unvoted and just played the babe in the woods routine. "I'm so confused", "I don't know what to make of this"... Well then unvote you dipsh*t

[CTM]

 I think stark side tracked himself and came off scummy with the whole gata next discussion. Its a noobish expectation that town would  autolynch anyone based on what scum said or did and you often see noobs think like this

[CTM]

1 hour ago, Leelou said:

@CTM why didn’t you vote for Lizzie? 

I'd also add that if you review my posts right after the claim (when I got in thread) they were mostly talking through supporting stark and suspecting Lizzie.. It's just not a decision that should've been made lightly like Nolder and brick did 

[The Crusher]

14 hours ago, Nynaeve said:

He's being annoying. Plus i wasnt caught up.

 

Agreed

I think you might be confusing lack of experience and cluelessness with scummyness.

It seems to me like he doesnt know how to work a PR or what to do irt a countering situation. That's my impression. He's too new. And as a cornered scum he could have claimed another pr.... i dont see him orchestrating all of this to go out with a bang. Too green.

Feel free to correct me if im wrong cause i only played with him once.... but that's what I'm getting from it. He feels lost, not shady.

^Bunny Town 

[Gone]

Ramdom time.... you guys have no idea how much I like playing here. The difference compared to dm is just immeasurable.

Funny how things turn out. ?

[The Crusher]

27 minutes ago, Nynaeve said:

Ramdom time.... you guys have no idea how much I like playing here. The difference compared to dm is just immeasurable.

Funny how things turn out. ?

Might want to go to the shrink and get that checked bunny. 

[Gone]

2 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Might want to go to the shrink and get that checked bunny. 

Funny I've been told that twice in the last week....

[The Crusher]

Look through the lynch of Stark quickly. Since he clears me as town I may die tonight. Maybe not because I’ve been gawd awful playing lately.

People need to read DPRs interaction with Stark before the lynch. Everything DPR says about the way Stark played this is certainly possible but DPR never takes a step back from beating down Stark to take a look at the obvious issue here. 

DOR does offer to step off and let those two stay and let everyone go after their 2nd choices? 

The thing that bothers me the most is DPR is one of the players and mods who has played the most and really understands the game. Ask him , he will tell you. 

So? I find it hard to believe he never thought of the why? If Stark was scum why would he counter reveal? It made zero sense with gameplay. They are down one, game has a vig or sk shoring at night as well and we lost the bodyguard. Is that the time to go one for one even with the cop?

If I don’t survive just look for yourselves. I truly suck and don’t get it right but if im not here in the a.m. just look at it. 

 

[GATA]

1 hour ago, CTM said:

I would've laid low and not countered, but breadcrumbed my later counter

 

I told him something similar why not make a better case for yourself and hold off the reveal till D3 if he had that agenda. We should have been investigating a bunch of other townies under the radar. 

[CTM]

3 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Look through the lynch of Stark quickly. Since he clears me as town I may die tonight. Maybe not because I’ve been gawd awful playing lately.

People need to read DPRs interaction with Stark before the lynch. Everything DPR says about the way Stark played this is certainly possible but DPR never takes a step back from beating down Stark to take a look at the obvious issue here. 

DOR does offer to step off and let those two stay and let everyone go after their 2nd choices? 

The thing that bothers me the most is DPR is one of the players and mods who has played the most and really understands the game. Ask him , he will tell you. 

So? I find it hard to believe he never thought of the why? If Stark was scum why would he counter reveal? It made zero sense with gameplay. They are down one, game has a vig or sk shoring at night as well and we lost the bodyguard. Is that the time to go one for one even with the cop?

If I don’t survive just look for yourselves. I truly suck and don’t get it right but if im not here in the a.m. just look at it. 

 

I'm with you.. Originally it came off as genuine but I think that's because he genuinely believes stark should've countered day 1

[CTM]

9 minutes ago, GATA said:

 

I told him something similar why not make a better case for yourself and hold off the reveal till D3 if he had that agenda. We should have been investigating a bunch of other townies under the radar. 

He was at l-3 with brick lurking.. I dont blame him for the timing of the counter I just would've tried to be more consistant in the interaction with lk, I get that he didn't want to come on too strong but there should be a middle ground. Also the way he countered and his thinking could've been explained better, side barring into a long convo about why you were the next lynch was a distraction and made him seem erratic, it's ultimately what did him in 

[Gone]

Im not forgeting the tiny detail of the possible existence of a GF. But I'm cool with Crusher so far so I'm not going there. Plus the odds of it are miniscule.

[GATA]

1 minute ago, Nynaeve said:

Im not forgeting the tiny detail of the possible existence of a GF. But I'm cool with Crusher so far so I'm not going there. Plus the odds of it are miniscule.

Stark cleared Crusher no? 

[Gone]

12 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Look through the lynch of Stark quickly. Since he clears me as town I may die tonight. Maybe not because I’ve been gawd awful playing lately.

People need to read DPRs interaction with Stark before the lynch. Everything DPR says about the way Stark played this is certainly possible but DPR never takes a step back from beating down Stark to take a look at the obvious issue here. 

DOR does offer to step off and let those two stay and let everyone go after their 2nd choices? 

The thing that bothers me the most is DPR is one of the players and mods who has played the most and really understands the game. Ask him , he will tell you. 

So? I find it hard to believe he never thought of the why? If Stark was scum why would he counter reveal? It made zero sense with gameplay. They are down one, game has a vig or sk shoring at night as well and we lost the bodyguard. Is that the time to go one for one even with the cop?

If I don’t survive just look for yourselves. I truly suck and don’t get it right but if im not here in the a.m. just look at it. 

 

I'm not using that criteria to read him. His vast experience doesnt mean he will always make sense and see it all. He's still human...mixed with booze. 

[Gone]

Just now, GATA said:

Stark cleared Crusher no? 

I'll explain for learning purposes.

GF is peeked town by a cop.

But im not going there with crusher cause crusher seems good so far and also the odds of stark peeking the gf n1 of all people are slim. So im not tinfoiling unless im at like f-3 and crusher is there ?

[Smashmouth]

19 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Look through the lynch of Stark quickly. Since he clears me as town I may die tonight. Maybe not because I’ve been gawd awful playing lately.

People need to read DPRs interaction with Stark before the lynch. Everything DPR says about the way Stark played this is certainly possible but DPR never takes a step back from beating down Stark to take a look at the obvious issue here. 

DOR does offer to step off and let those two stay and let everyone go after their 2nd choices? 

The thing that bothers me the most is DPR is one of the players and mods who has played the most and really understands the game. Ask him , he will tell you. 

So? I find it hard to believe he never thought of the why? If Stark was scum why would he counter reveal? It made zero sense with gameplay. They are down one, game has a vig or sk shoring at night as well and we lost the bodyguard. Is that the time to go one for one even with the cop?

If I don’t survive just look for yourselves. I truly suck and don’t get it right but if im not here in the a.m. just look at it. 

 

 

1 hour ago, CTM said:

I would've laid low and not countered, but breadcrumbed my later counter

 

14 minutes ago, CTM said:

I'm with you.. Originally it came off as genuine but I think that's because he genuinely believes stark should've countered day 1

Crush great post . Chan I would have played it exactly how you describe. 

 

[GATA]

6 minutes ago, Nynaeve said:

I'll explain for learning purposes.

GF is peeked town by a cop.

But im not going there with crusher cause crusher seems good so far and also the odds of stark peeking the gf n1 of all people are slim. So im not tinfoiling unless im at like f-3 and crusher is there ?

Wow ? 

[Smashmouth]

1 hour ago, D P R said:

 

 

You can keep moving in this direction if you like, but you're only doing it out of obstinance and wasting everybody's time. 

I'm not wasting anyone's time and for you to suggest that is pinging since others are still discussing this very topic and how you handled it and  why you voted . I said what I had to say and I'm ready to move on so we can agree to disagree but you will have to address those issues at some point