Congrats Drew Brees

[CTM]

5 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Can’t imagine many.

79% win % against AFC east. 77% win % against other divisions, not a significant difference. 

[southparkcpa]

2 hours ago, nycdan said:

Let's start with 2011.

5,476 yards.  46 TDs.  14 INTs.  71.2% completion %.  13-3 record.  Rodgers won the MVP with 800 fewer yards, but a 45/6 TD/INT ratio.  Not sure how you pick between them.

Compare his playoff numbers to Brady if you can get the press of Brady's knob long enough...

Brady: 276 Y/G,  62.8 Comp %, 4.8 TD %, 2.1 INT %, 4.3 Sack %, Rating 90.9

Brees: 324 Y/G, 65.9 Comp %, 5.4 TD %, 1.7 INT %, 3.9 Sack %, Rating 100.7

Brees had better numbers in every single category on a per-game basis.  And you can easily argue that Brees had less to work with than Brady in terms of skill position players.  Oh, and there's the no-cheating and no-steroids thing but maybe that's nit-picking.

It doesn't really matter in the end, because 12 or so years from now, Aaron Rodgers will get his gold jacket and be the undisputed GOAT.  Brady will have the rings, but Rodgers, statistically, is so far better than everyone else it's not even a race.  It's a beat-down.  

Your argument is sound but all those rings, over all those years, not playing in a dome etc.  I give it to Brady and I think Rogers and Brees are close but it's Brady in my view.  All the SB appearances to me make the difference.  Then again, Brady played the JETS, Bills and Fins 6 times a year... easy schedule.

[Vader]

3 minutes ago, CTM said:

Yet, his passing splits are worse against the AFC east and the W/L is virtually identical. Next talking point?

 

This is a good point. Brady owns the Steelers and Ravens. The AFCE dead zone argument is not the best argument??

[nyjunc]

5 minutes ago, Vader said:

The facts don’t bear that out

w/ Brady starting 2001-2017:

vs. AFC East(Indy and the great peyton Manning were part of the div in 2001 when he was 2-0 against them):

76-19, 80%

vs. other AFC teams

71-22, 76%

vs. NFC

48-15, 76%

 

vs. all non AFC East teams:

119-37, 76%

 

are 76% and 80% not similar?

 

 

 

[Vader]

Just now, nyjunc said:

w/ Brady starting 2001-2017:

vs. AFC East(Indy and the great peyton Manning were part of the div in 2001 when he was 2-0 against them):

76-19, 80%

vs. other AFC teams

71-22, 76%

vs. NFC

48-15, 76%

 

vs. all non AFC East teams:

119-37, 76%

 

are 76% and 80% not similar?

 

 

 

I’m too busy to get into statistical weeds but I conceded the point on the AFCE argument that was made and I thought was interesting. But the argument is a loser. Brady would dominate any division. 

[CTM]

3 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

w/ Brady starting 2001-2017:

vs. AFC East(Indy and the great peyton Manning were part of the div in 2001 when he was 2-0 against them):

76-19, 80%

vs. other AFC teams

71-22, 76%

vs. NFC

48-15, 76%

 

vs. all non AFC East teams:

119-37, 76%

 

are 76% and 80% not similar?

 

 

 

Wonder why pro footbsll reference has an extra AFC east loss?

[nyjunc]

26 minutes ago, peebag said:

So the reason the Jets have stunk it up is because NE has been good?

Not buying what you're selling.

The division is always out of reach b/c of the greatness of the Brady's, the Jets have always been playing for a WC.  it's not easy to earn a WC and we've done it 5 times in Brady era.  You know going into a season at best you can hope to win one game w/ NE but more often than not you will get swept.  B/c we cannot win consistently and have no chance at the division we change GMs every few years which leads to new players and coaches and the vicious cycle keeps going.  if we were in a division like the NFC East where there haven't been any dominant teams we'd have multiple division titles which means more home playoff games and greater chances to get to SBs than having to win 3 road games to do so.

20 minutes ago, Vader said:

You need to watch more football. Your claim is so hyperbolic it’s escaping orbit 

It sounds like you need to watch more, you seem to just look at Brees' numbers and think that makes him close to Brady. Brees is great but he has had more talent, plays half his games in domes and has had less success getting to and winning in postseason.

[nyjunc]

1 minute ago, CTM said:

Wonder why pro footbsll reference has an extra AFC east loss?

do they only count games he started?  remember he came into our game late in 2001, do they put that as a loss on his record? or I could have made a mistake. either way the point is valid, NE beats teams inside and out of the division at a similar rate.  They'd dominate any division, would they win the div title every year? maybe an Indy in the 00s takes 1-2 in those years or a GB, etc... but they'd win whatever division they were in at least 90% of the time.

[Vader]

Just now, nyjunc said:

 

It sounds like you need to watch more, you seem to just look at Brees' numbers and think that makes him close to Brady. Brees is great but he has had more talent, plays half his games in domes and has had less success getting to and winning in postseason.

completely disagree. the argument that Brees “isn’t close” to Brady is completel hyperbole.  It’s total nonsense.

[CTM]

6 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

do they only count games he started?  remember he came into our game late in 2001, do they put that as a loss on his record? or I could have made a mistake. either way the point is valid, NE beats teams inside and out of the division at a similar rate.  They'd dominate any division, would they win the div title every year? maybe an Indy in the 00s takes 1-2 in those years or a GB, etc... but they'd win whatever division they were in at least 90% of the time.

Agree it doesnt matter, we both went after the same data at the same time and came to similiar conclusions but I was surprised at the difference.

What's really amazing I guess is 1 more loss in an 18 year career against the division was a 5.3% increase in total losses 

[nyjunc]

2 hours ago, nycdan said:

Let's start with 2011.

5,476 yards.  46 TDs.  14 INTs.  71.2% completion %.  13-3 record.  Rodgers won the MVP with 800 fewer yards, but a 45/6 TD/INT ratio.  Not sure how you pick between them.

Compare his playoff numbers to Brady if you can get the press of Brady's knob long enough...

Brady: 276 Y/G,  62.8 Comp %, 4.8 TD %, 2.1 INT %, 4.3 Sack %, Rating 90.9

Brees: 324 Y/G, 65.9 Comp %, 5.4 TD %, 1.7 INT %, 3.9 Sack %, Rating 100.7

Brees had better numbers in every single category on a per-game basis.  And you can easily argue that Brees had less to work with than Brady in terms of skill position players.  Oh, and there's the no-cheating and no-steroids thing but maybe that's nit-picking.

It doesn't really matter in the end, because 12 or so years from now, Aaron Rodgers will get his gold jacket and be the undisputed GOAT.  Brady will have the rings, but Rodgers, statistically, is so far better than everyone else it's not even a race.  It's a beat-down.  

actually you can easily argue Brees has had more talent around him b/c he has.  Brady basically had 1 great year of Moss(resurrecting Moss' career by the way) and some seasons of Gronk(he's won 4 SBs w/o Gronk or Moss playing).

#s w/o context tell us part of the story. Brady has played 37 playoff games, he has missed the playoffs ONE time and the one time he missed his team missed winning the division on a tiebreaker. He's led his teams to 12 conf title games and 8 Super Bowls.  Brees has played 13 playoff games, been to 2 title games and 1 SB. he's missed the playoffs 9 times.

Brady has led late game winning drives/4th qtr comebacks 9 times including 4 times in the Super Bowl, Brees has done it 2 times.

 

Stats only tell part of the story which was why Brady was so much greater than Peyton despite Peyton putting up better #s.  Rodgers will go donw in the discussion for 2nd best, he's not catching Brady.  he's had too many clunkers in the playoffs.  outside of the Ari game in his 1st playoff game he was not good vs. NYG, SF 2x, Sea, Atl. 2 weeks after Rodgers faced Seattle in the 2014 NFC Championship where Rodgers had 1 TD, 2 INTs, led his O to 22 pts including 5 FGs despite starting inside the Seattle THREE times Brady led NE to 14 4th qtr points and the Pats back from 10 down in the 4th to win 28-24. 

[Vader]

7 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

Brady has led late game winning drives/4th qtr comebacks 9 times including 4 times in the Super Bowl, Brees has done it 2 times.

There’s an actual stat for this. Brees has 43, Brady, 42

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/gwd_career.htm

[nyjunc]

14 minutes ago, Vader said:

completely disagree. the argument that Brees “isn’t close” to Brady is completel hyperbole.  It’s total nonsense.

You know what's great? we are both allowed to have differing opinions.  My praise of Brady is not a shot at Brees who is an all time great but Brady as separated himself from all other QBs by a very comfortable margin. I have witnessed firsthand what this guy has done, how he resurrected a failing HC career and a franchise headed to the gutter.  NE was getting worse every year since their SB app under BP in 1996.  In 1996 they were 11-5, then 10-6, then 9-7, then 8-8 then BB took over and they were 5-13 before starting 0-2 in 2001.  BB was already on the hot seat, the fans were fed up then magically Tom Brady becomes the starter and they finish that season 11-3 en route to the SB and beginning of a dynasty w/ absolute nobodies around him.  it has never mattered who he is playing w/, he always gets the job done.  Sure he has terrible games here and there like everyone else but they are so rare.

Drew Brees has started against the Jets 7 times.  He's 3-3 in the reg season and 0-1 in the playoffs.

Brady has started against us 32 times, he's 24-6 in reg season and 1-1 in playoffs.  In 32 starts Brady has 7 losses, in 7 starts Brees has 4. As great as Brees is I have never been scared of facing him. even the games we lost were pretty much all close.  we sucked in 2005 and lost by 5 to SD, in 2009 we lost by 14 but our rookie QB imploded as our D held Brees and the O to only 10 pts, last yr w/ Bryce Petty we gave them a great game on the road. 

For me there's comparison btw the 2. both all time great QBs but one is far and away the greatest.

[nyjunc]

2 minutes ago, Vader said:

There’s an actual stat for this. Brees has 43, Brady, 42

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/gwd_career.htm

I was referring to postseason not coming back to beat the Bucs in the reg season and not all comebacks are created equal.  trailing 28-3 in the SB is a tad better than coming all the way back from a 21-20 deficit in the 4th qtr.

[nycdan]

If it wasn't for the ATL Super Bowl, I might argue harder with you but that game was ridiculous. and Brady definitely deserves credit for that.

Having said that, I can't think of the name of a single skill position player on NO other than Colston (who was probably more a product of Brees than vice versa) and Graham over Brees' entire career there.  Maybe I'm forgetting someone but I think it's pretty much been JAGsville.  

Let's see how Rodgers finishes up.  Sadly, I don't think GB has the guns to help him get another SB any time soon.  But I still firmly believe he is the greatest passer to ever play.  Not just stats but watching him.  He makes every throw, is deadly accurate to every point on the field, and makes incredibly few mistakes.  There is no QB I would rather have for a single game.  Not even Brady.  But I recognize that's subjective opinion and completely open to debate.

[CTM]

6 minutes ago, nycdan said:

If it wasn't for the ATL Super Bowl, I might argue harder with you but that game was ridiculous. and Brady definitely deserves credit for that.

Having said that, I can't think of the name of a single skill position player on NO other than Colston (who was probably more a product of Brees than vice versa) and Graham over Brees' entire career there.  Maybe I'm forgetting someone but I think it's pretty much been JAGsville.  

Let's see how Rodgers finishes up.  Sadly, I don't think GB has the guns to help him get another SB any time soon.  But I still firmly believe he is the greatest passer to ever play.  Not just stats but watching him.  He makes every throw, is deadly accurate to every point on the field, and makes incredibly few mistakes.  There is no QB I would rather have for a single game.  Not even Brady.  But I recognize that's subjective opinion and completely open to debate.

Lt and Gates in Sd, then a bunch of 1st rd picks in NO like Meachum, Cooks etc but sproles and Bush out of back field  (in addition to Graham and Colston)

[chirorob]

1 hour ago, peebag said:

Johnny Unitas never won a single championship with Shula.

Weeb Ewbank and Don McCafferty were his coaches when he won titles.

You sir, are 100% correct!!

[Vader]

3 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

You know what's great? we are both allowed to have differing opinions.  My praise of Brady is not a shot at Brees who is an all time great but Brady as separated himself from all other QBs by a very comfortable margin. I have witnessed firsthand what this guy has done, how he resurrected a failing HC career and a franchise headed to the gutter.  NE was getting worse every year since their SB app under BP in 1996.  In 1996 they were 11-5, then 10-6, then 9-7, then 8-8 then BB took over and they were 5-13 before starting 0-2 in 2001.  BB was already on the hot seat, the fans were fed up then magically Tom Brady becomes the starter and they finish that season 11-3 en route to the SB and beginning of a dynasty w/ absolute nobodies around him.  it has never mattered who he is playing w/, he always gets the job done.  Sure he has terrible games here and there like everyone else but they are so rare.

Drew Brees has started against the Jets 7 times.  He's 3-3 in the reg season and 0-1 in the playoffs.

Brady has started against us 32 times, he's 24-6 in reg season and 1-1 in playoffs.  In 32 starts Brady has 7 losses, in 7 starts Brees has 4. As great as Brees is I have never been scared of facing him. even the games we lost were pretty much all close.  we sucked in 2005 and lost by 5 to SD, in 2009 we lost by 14 but our rookie QB imploded as our D held Brees and the O to only 10 pts, last yr w/ Bryce Petty we gave them a great game on the road. 

For me there's comparison btw the 2. both all time great QBs but one is far and away the greatest.

The team record vs the jets is not relevant. 

Tom Brady was suspended 4 games in 2016 for deflate gate. There’s enough suspicion that something is awry with the NE operation and that BB and Brady themselves are involved that multiple teams cased the Patriots as cheaters. The NFL has had to get involved multiple times - against their will. 

Its a stain on Brady, frankly, and it is not easily disassociated from the statistics.

11 of 12 balls under inflated. 92%. 4 game suspension. 

Besidss the statistics which I am positive on their face will favor Brees at the end of the day, and they already do, the skepticism with which we have to view the Patriots and Brady is simply unavoidable.

[Vader]

1 minute ago, CTM said:

Lt and Gates in Sd, then a bunch of 1st rd picks in NO like Meachum, Cooks etc but sproles and Bush out of back field  (in addition to Graham and Colston)

Welker, Moss, Hernandez, Gronkowski, branch, cooks, on and on. Personnel rubs both ways. I don’t think anyone would say Brees has played with anyone as good as randy moss. 

 

[chirorob]

1 hour ago, nyjunc said:

Parcells made 3 SBs without a single Hall of famer

Gibbs won 3 without a Hall of famer

Shula made a SB with David Woodley

Great coaches can win without great QBs, those that have had chances have succeeded. Bill belichick has only had real success with the greatest QB of all time. That should tell us something.

Shula won 2 with Bob Griese, who is the most over rated coach in the history of the NFL.

He also had his greatest season with mainly old Earl Morrall as his QB.   Different game then, they had less than 150 yards a game through the air.  Really amazing, (I had to look this up) the Dolphin's quarterbacks threw for a combined 297 yards total in 3 playoff games.  

[nyjunc]

2 minutes ago, nycdan said:

If it wasn't for the ATL Super Bowl, I might argue harder with you but that game was ridiculous. and Brady definitely deserves credit for that.

Having said that, I can't think of the name of a single skill position player on NO other than Colston (who was probably more a product of Brees than vice versa) and Graham over Brees' entire career there.  Maybe I'm forgetting someone but I think it's pretty much been JAGsville.  

Let's see how Rodgers finishes up.  Sadly, I don't think GB has the guns to help him get another SB any time soon.  But I still firmly believe he is the greatest passer to ever play.  Not just stats but watching him.  He makes every throw, is deadly accurate to every point on the field, and makes incredibly few mistakes.  There is no QB I would rather have for a single game.  Not even Brady.  But I recognize that's subjective opinion and completely open to debate.

In SD he had some guy named Ladainian Tomlinson and he had Antonio Gates who are both HOFers to be.

In NO he had Deuce Mcallister, reggie Bush, Colston, Joe Horn, Lance Moore, Jeremy Shockey, Jimmy Graham, Mark Ingram, Darren Sproles, Kenny Stills, Brandin Cooks, Alvin Kamara,...

Brady hasn't had close to that amount of talent through the years.  he's had the better TE in Gronk(Gates was on gronk level) but Grink has always been in and out of the lineup and he won 4 SBs w/o Gronk.  He had great Moss for 1 season(again he resurrected Moss' career at that point).

[Vader]

16 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

I was referring to postseason not coming back to beat the Bucs in the reg season and not all comebacks are created equal.  trailing 28-3 in the SB is a tad better than coming all the way back from a 21-20 deficit in the 4th qtr.

Ok. Brees has more game winning drives. Bottom line. 

He also has the highest career completion percentage of any QB in history.

we could go on. It’s unteneable to contend “it’s not close” between Brady and any other QB.

[CTM]

3 minutes ago, Vader said:

Welker, Moss, Hernandez, Gronkowski, branch, cooks, on and on. Personnel rubs both ways. I don’t think anyone would say Brees has played with anyone as good as randy moss. 

 

No for sure, but Brady only had him 2 seasons. 

[nyjunc]

2 minutes ago, chirorob said:

Shula won 2 with Bob Griese, who is the most over rated coach in the history of the NFL.

He also had his greatest season with mainly old Earl Morrall as his QB.   Different game then, they had less than 150 yards a game through the air.  Really amazing, (I had to look this up) the Dolphin's quarterbacks threw for a combined 297 yards total in 3 playoff games.  

very different game but Belichick has been a HD since 1991.  In that span the following QBs have made SBs:

Mark Rypien(won)

Stan Humphries

Neil O'Donnell

Drew Bledsoe

Chris Chandler

Trent Dilfer(won)

Kerry Collins

Brad Johnson(won)

Jake Delhomme

Rex Grossman

Eli Manning(won TWICE)

Colin Kaepernick

Joe Flacco(won)

2015 Peyton Manning(obviously Peyton used to be great but he was awful in 2015)

 

Here are QBs Bill Belichick has had start for him:

Bernie Kosar: made 3 title games pre BB, 11-18 w/ BB

Vinny Testaverde- made wild card playoffs and won WC game w/ Vinny!  Parcells won a division and made AFC Championship Game w/ him

Drew Bledsoe: made Super Bowl w/ Parcells, was 5-13 with BB

Matt Cassell: couldn't make the playoffs despite Cassell inheriting team that was undefeated a year early and facing easier schedule.  Cassell won a div title 2 years later in Kansas City.

 

The greatest coaches have been able to win w/ numerous QBs if they have had the chance(Walsh and Lombardi never really had a chance w/ Montana/Starr), at least get to the playoffs and have chances to advance.  Bill Belichick has only been able to win w/ the greatest QB of all time.

[nyjunc]

8 minutes ago, Vader said:

Ok. Brees has more game winning drives. Bottom line. 

He also has the highest career completion percentage of any QB in history.

we could go on. It’s unteneable to contend “it’s not close” between Brady and any other QB.

comp % is the most overrated stat in the history of the game.

 

I'd like to go game by game checking those GW drives out. they are all treated the same whether it's a 5 yard GW drive w/ the game tied or down 28-3 in the SB.

[CTM]

2 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

very different game but Belichick has been a HD since 1991.  In that span the following QBs have made SBs:

Mark Rypien(won)

Stan Humphries

Neil O'Donnell

Drew Bledsoe

Chris Chandler

Trent Dilfer(won)

Kerry Collins

Brad Johnson(won)

Jake Delhomme

Rex Grossman

Eli Manning(won TWICE)

Colin Kaepernick

Joe Flacco(won)

2015 Peyton Manning(obviously Peyton used to be great but he was awful in 2015)

 

Here are QBs Bill Belichick has had start for him:

Bernie Kosar: made 3 title games pre BB, 11-18 w/ BB

Vinny Testaverde- made wild card playoffs and won WC game w/ Vinny!  Parcells won a division and made AFC Championship Game w/ him

Drew Bledsoe: made Super Bowl w/ Parcells, was 5-13 with BB

Matt Cassell: couldn't make the playoffs despite Cassell inheriting team that was undefeated a year early and facing easier schedule.  Cassell won a div title 2 years later in Kansas City.

 

The greatest coaches have been able to win w/ numerous QBs if they have had the chance(Walsh and Lombardi never really had a chance w/ Montana/Starr), at least get to the playoffs and have chances to advance.  Bill Belichick has only been able to win w/ the greatest QB of all time.

I really never understand why people tout Belichick in order to knock Brady.

They are both Pat's, but Belichick left us at the alter by disrespectfully scribbling I resign as HC NYJ on a napkin after 1 day on job. It would seem to me that the majority of Jet fan ire should go towards Belichick 

Is it because Beli is a miserable,  ugly little troll and Brady dates actresses and super models thereby triggering sexual jealousy on top of fandom related envy?  I honestly dont know but it makes little sense to me.

[nyjunc]

17 minutes ago, Vader said:

The team record vs the jets is not relevant. 

Tom Brady was suspended 4 games in 2016 for deflate gate. There’s enough suspicion that something is awry with the NE operation and that BB and Brady themselves are involved that multiple teams cased the Patriots as cheaters. The NFL has had to get involved multiple times - against their will. 

Its a stain on Brady, frankly, and it is not easily disassociated from the statistics.

11 of 12 balls under inflated. 92%. 4 game suspension. 

Besidss the statistics which I am positive on their face will favor Brees at the end of the day, and they already do, the skepticism with which we have to view the Patriots and Brady is simply unavoidable.

Brees won his lone SB w/ bountygate so what is the point?  oh by the way in the SB against a legendary defense after deflategate(which was ridiculous by the way) he led his team back from 10 down to score 14 pts in the 4th to win it.  a year earlier against the same D peyton Manning put up 8 pts in garbage time. since deflategate he's won 2 SBs and been to 3 and he won against Atl where he lost Gronk during the season then led his O to 33 pts last yr after he lost Edelman.

13 minutes ago, Vader said:

Welker, Moss, Hernandez, Gronkowski, branch, cooks, on and on. Personnel rubs both ways. I don’t think anyone would say Brees has played with anyone as good as randy moss. 

 

Gronk sure but he's always hurt and Brady has won FOIUR SBs w/o him

welker was an average player he made great

he had great Randy for 1 season and Randy hadn't been great in many years

Hernandez? come on

Branch was an average player, did you see him in his prime in Seattle?

Cooks played 1 season w/ Brady, made a SB.  He played 3 w/ Brees and never won more than 7 games

 

Moss is probably the best player(though LT is right there) BUT again he had great Randy for ONE season(then Brady got hurt) and Randy wasn't great for a long time before he got to NE.  Brady resurrected his career. In the 3 years pre Brady Moss had one barely 1,00 yd season and 24 TDs, w/ Brady he had 1500+ yds and 23 TDs in 2007.

[Vader]

10 minutes ago, CTM said:

No for sure, but Brady only had him 2 seasons. 

Randy Moss’s first year with Brady -2007 -was incidentally the first year Brady was able to throw a more than 2:1 TD:INT ratio.

brady has always had some magic - or whatever - but when it was just him, Troy brown, David givens, Daniel graham, and  Kevin Faulk on third downs, he was good. Not HOF.  Granted: Brady has always has big game magic. But it wasn’t until he was surrounded by HOF talent that his numbers truly reflected same.

also, even with moss, welker, Hernandez, Gronkowski, he’s never thrown for 5000 yards. 

Brees has done it what like 5 times?

 

[Vader]

14 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

comp % is the most overrated stat in the history of the game.

 

I'd like to go game by game checking those GW drives out. they are all treated the same whether it's a 5 yard GW drive w/ the game tied or down 28-3 in the SB.

Ok. Check out Elways, Marino’s and Manning’s too. There must be something fluky about the fact that Tom Brady isn’t #1. 

While you are at it, check out Brees 2018 completion %. (77%). And the rest of his stats. (No ints). Then look at Brady’s 2018.

Drew Brees is getting better. Brady isn’t.

[Vader]

12 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

Brees won his lone SB w/ bountygate so what is the point?  

The point is that deflate gate is frankly a stain on the reliability of Brady’s statistics. Bounty gate has nothing to do with drew Brees. At all. It was on the defense.

[nyjunc]

3 minutes ago, Vader said:

Randy Moss’s first year with Brady -2007 -was incidentally the first year Brady was able to throw a more than 2:1 TD:INT ratio.

brady has always had some magic - or whatever - but when it was just him, Troy brown, David givens, Daniel graham, and  Kevin Faulk on third downs, he was good. Not HOF.  Granted: Brady has always has big game magic. But it wasn’t until he was surrounded by HOF talent that his numbers truly reflected same.

also, even with moss, welker, Hernandez, Gronkowski, he’s never thrown for 5000 yards. 

Brees has done it what like 5 times?

 

yeah, when it was just him w/ Brown, givens, graham,, faulk, etc... he just won 3 SBs w/ 2 game winning drives in the final minute.  Man he sucked.

the position is about more than meaningless fantasy numbers.  Brady was better than Manning back then even though he didn't put up huge #s yet, this man made a conf championship game in 2006 w/ absolutely no run game and reche Caldwell and Jabar Gaffney as his top 2 WRs and in that title game led that offense on the road to 27 points.  Brady did not become an all time great since he started putting up video game numbers in 2007, he was on his way to the Hall pre 2007.  Now he just has the #s to go w/ the wins but the wins are always more important.

he was at 2-1 3 times from 2002-2006. from 2002-2008 Brees was at or above(above 1 season) 2-1 2 times. 

 

welker was a little possession receiver, he had Moss 2 seasons and only 1 season of great Moss, gronk is in and out of the lineup and he's won FOUR SBs w/o him, stop w/ the hernandez stuff.

would you rather throw for 5,000 yards or lead your O's to more points and your teams to more wins?  Brees has done it 4 times w/ 2 of the seasons being losing seasons, Brady has done it once and he led team to 13-3 and a SB.

some fans are just so impressed w/ out of context fantasy #s, it amazes me.

 

 

[nyjunc]

7 minutes ago, Vader said:

Ok. Check out Elways, Marino’s and Manning’s too. There must be something fluky about the fact that Tom Brady isn’t #1. 

While you are at it, check out Brees 2018 completion %. (77%). And the rest of his stats. (No ints). Then look at Brady’s 2018.

Drew Brees is getting better. Brady isn’t.

I think we need to go through all of them.

 

um, Tom Brady just won the league MVP LAST YEAR.

[nyjunc]

4 minutes ago, Vader said:

The point is that deflate gate is frankly a stain on the reliability of Brady’s statistics. Bounty gate has nothing to do with drew Brees. At all. It was on the defense.

it's not a stain to anyone who doesn't have a bias against Brady and/or the Pats. All QBs like the football inflated a certain way, some overinflated, some a little under.  That situation was a joke. 

[Vader]

1 minute ago, nyjunc said:

yeah, when it was just him w/ Brown, givens, graham,, faulk, etc... he just won 3 SBs w/ 2 game winning drives in the final minute.  Man he sucked.

the position is about more than meaningless fantasy numbers.  Brady was better than Manning back then even though he didn't put up huge #s yet, this man made a conf championship game in 2006 w/ absolutely no run game and reche Caldwell and Jabar Gaffney as his top 2 WRs and in that title game led that offense on the road to 27 points.  Brady did not become an all time great since he started putting up video game numbers in 2007, he was on his way to the Hall pre 2007.  Now he just has the #s to go w/ the wins but the wins are always more important.

he was at 2-1 3 times from 2002-2006. from 2002-2008 Brees was at or above(above 1 season) 2-1 2 times. 

 

welker was a little possession receiver, he had Moss 2 seasons and only 1 season of great Moss, gronk is in and out of the lineup and he's won FOUR SBs w/o him, stop w/ the hernandez stuff.

would you rather throw for 5,000 yards or lead your O's to more points and your teams to more wins?  Brees has done it 4 times w/ 2 of the seasons being losing seasons, Brady has done it once and he led team to 13-3 and a SB.

some fans are just so impressed w/ out of context fantasy #s, it amazes me.

 

 

Brady was the best game manager plus maybe ever, and was perhaps the most magical QB ever, until Moss. 

With that being said, we don’t know when the deflating started. But we can assume it was NOT limited to the one game he was caught. Again, that’s a technical issue of reliability of the statistics.

in terms of your question “would I rather throw for 5000 yards or win”? That’s a question that involves more than just the QB. But I will rephrase your question slightly to answer it:

”would you rather throw for 5000+ yards 5 times or never and win multiple SBs”? 

The answer is obvious: you rather not throw 5000 yards but win multiple SBs.

But the QB that throws for 5000+ yards 5x vs the QB that has never done so is clearly not head and shoulders below than the other. 

I think that’s the miasma wafting around this thread. The premise that Drew Brees is “not even close” to Tom Brady is demonstrably false.

[nyjunc]

3 minutes ago, Vader said:

Brady was the best game manager plus maybe ever, and was perhaps the most magical QB ever, until Moss. 

With that being said, we don’t know when the deflating started. But we can assume it was NOT limited to the one game he was caught. Again, that’s a technical issue of reliability of the statistics.

in terms of your question “would I rather throw for 5000 yards or win”? That’s a question that involves more than just the QB. But I will rephrase your question slightly to answer it:

”would you rather throw for 5000+ yards 5 times or never and win multiple SBs”? 

The answer is obvious: you rather not throw 5000 yards but win multiple SBs.

But the QB that throws for 5000+ yards 5x vs the QB that has never done so is clearly not head and shoulders below than the other. 

I think that’s the miasma wafting around this thread. The premise that Drew Brees is “not even close” to Tom Brady is demonstrably false.

I believe he was doing it for a while, if it was a big deal he would have struggled since.  He's only gotten better. Maybe we should be thankful he was doing it?

he did it 4 times and Brady has done it once just to clarify. it's pretty meaningless just as it was when Namath threw away the 1967 jets season but became the 1st to throw for 4,000 yds.  Yds w/o points can be pretty meaningless.

it's much more than just #s which are close btw the two despite Drew playing at least half his games in domes every year and w/ more talent around him on a consistent basis. we don't compare players based strictly on #s, if we did a guy like Joe Montana would be nowhere near the greatest of all time debate but he is.  he's a clear #2 after Brady but well back in the rearview mirror.