Chris vouching for Woody

[Philc1]

1 hour ago, Biggs said:

I don't agree with anything you have said.   Shareholders are owners.  33% shareholders control companies all over the world.  Hess controlled the Jets when Lillis died and Iselin had a heart attack.  I think you just have a thing for Woody and just love defending him.  Woody isn't remotely in Hess's league as a business man or owner.  He's a lightweight.  And Hess was mostly an absentee owner. 

Wasn’t Hess’s problem was that he was old and scenile?  I was only around for the end of Hess but from what I know he did temperamental stuff like fire Pete Carroll after just one year and fire a head coach on the plane immediately after a season the jets went 10-6

[Jet Nut]

14 hours ago, Biggs said:

I don't agree with anything you have said.   Shareholders are owners.  33% shareholders control companies all over the world.  Hess controlled the Jets when Lillis died and Iselin had a heart attack.  I think you just have a thing for Woody and just love defending him.  Woody isn't remotely in Hess's league as a business man or owner.  He's a lightweight.  And Hess was mostly an absentee owner. 

Why exactly do you keep repeating what I wrote way back in this thread and do it after telling me that you dont agree with anything Ive said?

WTF does any of this have to do with Woody?  I told you Hess wasn't the owner of the Jets in 68 it was a group that owned the team.

Forget it, you're just into arguing and youre tiring.

 

[slats]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

Why exactly do you keep repeating what I wrote way back in this thread and do it after telling me that you dont agree with anything Ive said?

WTF does any of this have to do with Woody?  I told you Hess wasn't the owner of the Jets in 68 it was a group that owned the team.

Forget it, you're just into arguing and youre tiring.

 

Let it go, already. 

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, slats said:

Let it go, already. 

I thought we did.  I’m done with it.  No problem 

[nyjunc]

On 8/18/2020 at 5:23 PM, southparkcpa said:

And you dont think that they’re having no loyalty to Woody had nothing to do with it?  I believe , with no basis I recognize , that Parcells met Woody and was unwilling to work for him as coach evidenced by him working as a coach many years after.  Same with BB.  We have yet to have an experienced football man come and work for Woody. Unless you count Gase.    

But he worked for him, he wasn't going to stick around in any capacity for 2000 until he met with Woody.

BB left because of Parcells, don't let the repairing of their relationship fool you.  They didn't talk for many years because of what happened.

Who are the experienced football men that the Jets were after?  Name me 1 that turned the Jets down?  And who were the HCs you wanted that we didn't go after?  There aren't a lot of bill Parcells types available.

[southparkcpa]

41 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

 

Who are the experienced football men that the Jets were after?  Name me 1 that turned the Jets down?  And who were the HCs you wanted that we didn't go after?  There aren't a lot of bill Parcells types available.

I don't think it's a function of rejecting an offer, it's more a function of they decline to interview etc.  We have 3 or 4 EX NFL players at my golf club, a former NFL GM is a member etc.  They have all shared with me that many players and personnel have historically tried to avoid the Jets.  Im not kidding.

[Sperm Edwards]

On 8/18/2020 at 5:23 PM, southparkcpa said:

And you dont think that they’re having no loyalty to Woody had nothing to do with it?  I believe , with no basis I recognize , that Parcells met Woody and was unwilling to work for him as coach evidenced by him working as a coach many years after.  Same with BB.  We have yet to have an experienced football man come and work for Woody. Unless you count Gase.    

I don't know that that's true. It's a common narrative among some Jets fans because there's pretty much no Jets fan (myself included) who truly likes Woody Johnson as the owner, but I don't think that's the case. Belichick even alluded to that himself, seemingly concerned of the uncertainty that BP's role might change (read: increase) under a new owner -- whichever that might be between Woody and Dolan. BP's own decision predates BB's so it makes it that much more baseless that it was all because of Woody. For all we know it's Dolan one or the other (or both) feared working under, because he was more famously known as a grade-a douchebag than Woody Johnson -- Riley quitting on Dolan wasn't so long before that. If Parcells wouldn't work under Woody, surely Belichick would have known how he felt, and thus wouldn't have had any concerns over the fickle Parcells suddenly re-increasing his fat shadow under the new owner.

Parcells was only going to coach here 3 years. That was his plan when he was wooed to come here, which is surely how they got Belichick to agree to the contract he had (3 more years as Tuna Helper was plenty) -- whereby BB gets the job when BP stepped down, which again was planned to be 3 years from day one. Testaverde going down week 1 in 1999 put that in doubt in fans' eyes, because they mistakenly confused turning the franchise around with him also having any type of honor, and that he'd surely want to stick around for a "real" 3rd season because they wanted him to. It also got muddied when he was hemming & hawing on the decision himself. What made him step down, ultimately, may have been nothing more than the obvious: c*ockblocking Belichick from going to Kraft. If he hated the idea of being associated with Woody that much, I doubt he'd have stuck around as GM either - let alone would have hired his own guy in Groh to be the HC after Belichick quit - nor would he have cared how much the Jets got in return from the Patriots as compensation for Belichick. 

It's conveniently easy to forget that Parcells quitting on Woody Johnson was sandwiched in between Parcells quitting on Bob Kraft and Parcells quitting on Jerry Jones. Even easier to forget was that Parcells quit on Tampa after they officially fired Dungy -- a process/plan that was surely in the works before Tampa canned him (and one that perhaps had planted seeds that went back as far as the Keyshawn trade, seeing as how Keyshawn was one of his favorite players); then it took another month for them to come up with a backup plan, which ended up being that huge trade for Gruden. 

Parcells would have had total and complete control under Woody if he wanted it; there was no track record of Woody meddling and there was no reason to believe that would've happened. In terms of football, Woody looked up to and was awestruck by that dirtbag, like a starstruck fan meeting a celebrity, and would have let Parcells do anything he wanted. It's an imaginary notion that Parcells thought, "Oh man I won't cash this guy Woody's checks because I baselessly sense he will come in and suddenly micromanage a HOF HC/GM." It was a team Parcells built and he quit on it. Yet he stuck around for a year in a FO capacity, and maintained good relations with Woody Johnson after that. 

Parcells quit because that's what he does (or did, anyway). He tried to quit on the Giants in early '87 -- pulled the same thing between NYG/Atlanta that he did with NE/NYJ except Rozelle blocked it. Then he quit on New England; quit on the Jets; (probably) quit on Tampa; quit on Dallas. Oh yeah, and then after just 3 years he quit on Miami.

He was never going to be long-term anywhere. The idea that he was going to just stay as HC here, but for Woody Johnson, is a fantasy of fans who (understandably) want to find a villain to blame for two more decades of ringless fingers. 

Woody can EAD, but portraying Bill Parcells as the Christ figure here? Meh to that idea. Guy was always a quitter. The timing of the ownership change just provided Parcells with cover he didn't earn.

[nyjunc]

2 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

I don't think it's a function of rejecting an offer, it's more a function of they decline to interview etc.  We have 3 or 4 EX NFL players at my golf club, a former NFL GM is a member etc.  They have all shared with me that many players and personnel have historically tried to avoid the Jets.  Im not kidding.

Who declined to interview?

 

Historically, that would go back to the Hess days.  I could understand that.  

[southparkcpa]

27 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

Who declined to interview?

 

Historically, that would go back to the Hess days.  I could understand that.  

Well we will never know but in fairness to you yes, some of these comments were i HESS years but some were in  Woody's years. 

 

 

[nyjunc]

40 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

Well we will never know but in fairness to you yes, some of these comments were i HESS years but some were in  Woody's years. 

 

 

I can understand not knowing an incoming owner and bring skeptical but BBs deal didn't come together in a few days, there was behind the scenes maneuvering for a long time.  It wasn't because of Woody.

Woody ran things from. 2000-2016, how often did we hear of him meddling with a coach or GM?  

[Philc1]

7 hours ago, nyjunc said:

Woody ran things from. 2000-2016, how often did we hear of him meddling with a coach or GM?  

Are you kidding?

[nyjunc]

11 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Are you kidding?

Give me the examples? 

[Philc1]

2 hours ago, nyjunc said:

Give me the examples? 

Herm, Mangini, Idzik, the Tim Tebow trade, Woody not letting Rex and Bradway sign Revis when he was a UFA in 2014 because of the personal beef and us going into a season with D’Mitri Patterson as our #1 Cover Corner

[nyjunc]

On 8/25/2020 at 10:23 AM, Philc1 said:

Herm, Mangini, Idzik, the Tim Tebow trade, Woody not letting Rex and Bradway sign Revis when he was a UFA in 2014 because of the personal beef and us going into a season with D’Mitri Patterson as our #1 Cover Corner

Not all are true and that's not a lot over 17 years. 

It was really about Tebow, an inconsequential move as they weren't going to be good either way, and Revis.  I understand the frustration the organization had with revis and I don't think idzik wanted to re-sign him.

[Jethead]

Woody has been a terrible owner. Almost Dan Snyder bad. Hasn't exactly distinguished himself as an Ambassador either but that's for another conversation. 

Parcell's ego was the reason BB quit. He welshed on their deal.

[nyjunc]

2 minutes ago, Jethead said:

Woody has been a terrible owner. Almost Dan Snyder bad. Hasn't exactly distinguished himself as an Ambassador either but that's for another conversation. 

Parcell's ego was the reason BB quit. He welshed on their deal.

Woody ran things from 2000-2016(17 seasons), in that time the Jets made the playoffs 6 times, won a rare AFC East title (the only one Brady didn't win in his career), had only 6 losing seasons with none back to back and won 6 playoff games including 2 AFC Championship Game appearances.

Daniel Snyder has run they Redskins 1999-current(21 seasons), in that time he made the playoffs 4 times winning just 2 wild card games with 12 losing seasons including THREE streaks of 3 consecutive losing seasons.

There's no comparison btw the two.