Sauce and Quinnen Williams Voted into Pro Bowl (Zeurlein Moarstead Quincy Mosley BREECE Hall Johnson Alternates )

[Warfish]

15 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Let’s say, hypothetically, you traded Sauce and Quinnen for Justin Herbert, your next move would be to find a left tackle, but the move after that would be to find a new CB1, and those are prohibitively expensive. I’m a little squishier on Quinnen because, as @Matt39 has pointed out over the years, you can find interior pass rushers in the draft, but Quinnen is still an elite interior pass rusher. The Jets defense hasn’t looked amazing down the stretch but they’re still third in EPA, which means they’ve been elite at stealing points in a game. I hereby object to your premise that Sauce and Quinnen aren’t factoring in to W/Ls, though, because it’s clearly the offense generally, and the QB play specifically, that have cost this team in the W/L department. What little success this team has had traces directly back to what Sauce and Quinnen provide.

As I said, I'm willing to suffer the results of replacing them with average market-rate FA types.  I'm not looking to replace an elite CB1, I'm looking for a decent, average, scheme-fit CB1B type.  I'm not looking for a 200 million DT, I'm looking for a big fattie DT who will take up two blockers so my 1st round D-Ends can get sacks, which doesn't cost 200 million in contract.

For me, it's all about priorities.  Just like with Head Coaches.  The Jets have been failures for most of the past 25 years because they're building and playing 1970's style Defense-Above-All Football in an Offensive-Dominated post-2000 NFL.  And after 25 years, even when at peak, that idea doesn't work.

I'll happily allow a few more CB1 TD's, if my offense can score a ton more TD's.   Maybe that average CB might actually snag an INT or two a year, which would be an improvement at this point.

I'll happily take 1.0 or 2.0 instead of 3.5 sacks from my fattie DT if my supposedly elite D-End 1st rounders step up and produce like 1st rounders, and I get a top OT prospect out of it too.

I could care less about Sauce or QW or their perceived stardom and fan favorite status.  Being liked by fans doesn't win games.

You know what wins games?  Scoring TD's with your offense.  

[nj meadowlands]

6 minutes ago, Warfish said:

As I said, I'm willing to suffer the results of replacing them with average market-rate FA types.  I'm not looking to replace an elite CB1, I'm looking for a decent, average, scheme-fit CB1B type.  I'm not looking for a 200 million DT, I'm looking for a big fattie DT who will take up two blockers so my 1st round D-Ends can get sacks, which doesn't cost 200 million in contract.

For me, it's all about priorities.  Just like with Head Coaches.  The Jets have been failures for most of the past 25 years because they're building and playing 1970's style Defense-Above-All Football in an Offensive-Dominated post-2000 NFL.  And after 25 years, even when at peak, that idea doesn't work.

I'll happily allow a few more CB1 TD's, if my offense can score a ton more TD's.   Maybe that average CB might actually snag an INT or two a year, which would be an improvement at this point.

I'll happily take 1.0 or 2.0 instead of 3.5 sacks from my fattie DT if my supposedly elite D-End 1st rounders step up and produce like 1st rounders, and I get a top OT prospect out of it too.

I could care less about Sauce or QW or their perceived stardom and fan favorite status.  Being liked by fans doesn't win games.

You know what wins games?  Scoring TD's with your offense.  

Hear, hear!

Sauce and QW should trade themselves for elite offensive talent, for the good of the team.

[RutgersJetFan]

16 minutes ago, Warfish said:

As I said, I'm willing to suffer the results of replacing them with average market-rate FA types.  I'm not looking to replace an elite CB1, I'm looking for a decent, average, scheme-fit CB1B type.  I'm not looking for a 200 million DT, I'm looking for a big fattie DT who will take up two blockers so my 1st round D-Ends can get sacks, which doesn't cost 200 million in contract.

For me, it's all about priorities.  Just like with Head Coaches.  The Jets have been failures for most of the past 25 years because they're building and playing 1970's style Defense-Above-All Football in an Offensive-Dominated post-2000 NFL.  And after 25 years, even when at peak, that idea doesn't work.

I'll happily allow a few more CB1 TD's, if my offense can score a ton more TD's.   Maybe that average CB might actually snag an INT or two a year, which would be an improvement at this point.

I'll happily take 1.0 or 2.0 instead of 3.5 sacks from my fattie DT if my supposedly elite D-End 1st rounders step up and produce like 1st rounders, and I get a top OT prospect out of it too.

I could care less about Sauce or QW or their perceived stardom and fan favorite status.  Being liked by fans doesn't win games.

You know what wins games?  Scoring TD's with your offense.  

The Jets might be the best professional sports franchise on the planet at not finding players of value. To think they could just trade out Sauce and Quinnen for equally valuable players at other positions that they have been Battlefield Earth levels of bad at finding isn't the best leg to stand on. 

[Warfish]

16 minutes ago, nj meadowlands said:

Hear, hear!

Sauce and QW should trade themselves for elite offensive talent, for the good of the team.

Who said they should do anything?  We have a GM you know.  He should get his failures head out of his failed ass and actually fix this team for our future.  And no "Rodgers back" isn't that fix.

[RutgersJetFan]

52 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Let’s say, hypothetically, you traded Sauce and Quinnen for Justin Herbert

Why not include a 2nd rounder and Allen Lazard and shoot for Mahomes?

[T0mShane]

2 hours ago, Matt39 said:

Quinnen yes. I don’t know what Gardner is providing that couldn’t be replaced by Echols if we’re just going to be playing zone. Gardners effort as a tackler is legit horrendous. 

Who do you think is a better corner than Sauce? Daron Bland? The Jets play a bunch of Cover Three because if that defense gives up one explosive play, the game is over. You put Sauce on a team that scores points and you let him run the alleys, he’d put up INT numbers that he doesn’t currently. At last check, he was the least targeted starting corner in football. As it stands, I think the zone argument is overstated because the dude is single handedly shutting off a third of the football field. I could see the argument if Sauce was giving up the occasional TD, but that’s not the case. When the opposing QB throws the ball to his side, it’s a dead play. 

[T0mShane]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

You know what wins games?  Scoring TD's with your offense.  

You win games by scoring more points than your opponent, and Sauce Gardner’s presence (or drafting) hasn’t precluded them a single bit from upgrading the offense. They spent on receivers. They traded for Rodgers. They paid huge for backs. Because those guys sucked and/or got hurt has nothing to do with Sauce. Are you suggesting that they should trade him for a pick in this draft? For whom, Joe Alt?

[Adoni Beast]

They should have a fan base Pro Bowl and we should win it every year for continuing to root for this piece of sh!t franchise.

[Matt39]

10 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Who do you think is a better corner than Sauce? Daron Bland? The Jets play a bunch of Cover Three because if that defense gives up one explosive play, the game is over. You put Sauce on a team that scores points and you let him run the alleys, he’d put up INT numbers that he doesn’t currently. At last check, he was the least targeted starting corner in football. As it stands, I think the zone argument is overstated because the dude is single handedly shutting off a third of the football field. I could see the argument if Sauce was giving up the occasional TD, but that’s not the case. When the opposing QB throws the ball to his side, it’s a dead play. 

Yeah I’m just going to disagree on the dead play or shutting down a third of field. A swing pass to his side of the field is giving up chunk yards because he doesn’t tackle at all. He’s a guy offenses attack on the outside run or getting people in space in front of him. Hell escort a ball carrier 15 yards down the field instead of tackling. His shadow rate was way low for the player he’s supposed to be. All in all I think he’s the wrong guy for the Jets to prop up because of his overall effort. Q, JJ, Quincy would be the guys the org should highlight.

[Matt39]

13 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

You win games by scoring more points than your opponent, and Sauce Gardner’s presence (or drafting) hasn’t precluded them a single bit from upgrading the offense. They spent on receivers. They traded for Rodgers. They paid huge for backs. Because those guys sucked and/or got hurt has nothing to do with Sauce. Are you suggesting that they should trade him for a pick in this draft? For whom, Joe Alt?

I don’t know if Alt is good, but if he’s a day 1 starter at LT and the potential to be the guy for the next decade- yeah absolutely. And then use the other on best receiver on the board or Bowers. Slide Echols into Sauces spot with Reed on the other side (a much more willing tackler) and that opening day lineup is much better than this years.

[Warfish]

27 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

You win games by scoring more points than your opponent, and Sauce Gardner’s presence (or drafting) hasn’t precluded them a single bit from upgrading the offense. They spent on receivers. They traded for Rodgers. They paid huge for backs. Because those guys sucked and/or got hurt has nothing to do with Sauce. Are you suggesting that they should trade him for a pick in this draft? For whom, Joe Alt?

I understand Tom. 3-0 wins really are the best. DT and LB in rounds 1 and 3! Defense Wins Championships! I’m sure there is a bendy Edge we can reach for at 8, right?

If an idea fails, the fans were just too toxic. Just keep doing the same thing again, it has to work eventually right? Law of averages is something.

[Drums]

Morestead got robbed

[T0mShane]

41 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

A swing pass to his side of the field is giving up chunk yards because he doesn’t tackle at all. He’s a guy offenses attack on the outside run or getting people in space in front of him. Hell escort a ball carrier 15 yards down the field instead of tackling.

Come on now

[Matt39]

2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Come on now

Tape doesn’t lie

[T0mShane]

7 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Tape doesn’t lie

If you make me sign up for PFF again I’m going to hold it against you forever

[Matt39]

3 hours ago, T0mShane said:

If you make me sign up for PFF again I’m going to hold it against you forever

soft g at it again

https://x.com/iamsaucegardner/status/1743095451618857356?s=46&t=PLexIRqqfCgiOQ-raHkirg

 

[nj meadowlands]

54 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

soft g at it again

https://x.com/iamsaucegardner/status/1743095451618857356?s=46&t=PLexIRqqfCgiOQ-raHkirg

 

 

[#27TheDominator]

18 hours ago, Matt39 said:

Quinnen yes. I don’t know what Gardner is providing that couldn’t be replaced by Echols if we’re just going to be playing zone. Gardners effort as a tackler is legit horrendous. 

I think you are grossly overrating Echols (who I like) and undervaluing Gardner's length.  He covers a bunch of ground with it, and I think the fact that he is so rarely called for PI would go out the window the moment you replace him.  You downplay that as a nickname, but it matters.  I share your concerns about his tackling.  Both because being that bad at strikes me as not caring about his craft and because if I were on his team I would be making legit fun of him in the film room. I don't think you want that with your best players.  His form is so bad it also looks like he is inviting injury, though I guess it won't be a shoulder since he never sticks one in there.

[#27TheDominator]

15 hours ago, Drums said:

Morestead got robbed

Maybe you forgot when we played the Raiders.  We probably lost that game simply because their punter outpunted Morestead.   That is not insult to Morestead.  The guy that made it deserved it more.

[Matt39]

26 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I think you are grossly overrating Echols (who I like) and undervaluing Gardner's length.  He covers a bunch of ground with it, and I think the fact that he is so rarely called for PI would go out the window the moment you replace him.  You downplay that as a nickname, but it matters.  I share your concerns about his tackling.  Both because being that bad at strikes me as not caring about his craft and because if I were on his team I would be making legit fun of him in the film room. I don't think you want that with your best players.  His form is so bad it also looks like he is inviting injury, though I guess it won't be a shoulder since he never sticks one in there.

I don’t see how anyone who’s being honest would blow this off as a joke. His effort is bad. That can’t be your leader.

[Drums]

7 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

Maybe you forgot when we played the Raiders.  We probably lost that game simply because their punter outpunted Morestead.   That is not insult to Morestead.  The guy that made it deserved it more.

Luckily I was traveling so I missed that one

[LockeJET]

On 1/4/2024 at 7:34 AM, The Crusher said:

If I’m Garret Wilson I’m about ready for a new team. Only a pathetic diseased franchise would allow the line and QB situation get this bad. What a Damn shame. 

He’s next in line if the 5th alternate declines.