ZACH WILSON isn’t on the Jets anymore discussion (merged)

[T0mShane]

49 minutes ago, bicketybam said:

Did they love Adam Gase?

When you were a major player in the cutthroat world of prestige corporate air travel, were you beloved by your many underlings, and would you describe yourself as a Commander or a Survivor? 

[Matt39]

17 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Same exact trade?  Does #39 and a 2025 5th equate to a 2026 3rd now?  I'd honestly rather have Reddick sit the first half of the season than be on the hook for 5/$141M. 

Perhaps. I still don’t think the Jets really had any idea what they were walking into. Which for a professional team, is uh, concerning.

[Scott Dierking]

4 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Perhaps. I still don’t think the Jets really had any idea what they were walking into. Which for a professional team, is uh, concerning.

Any conjecture that the jets had no idea about the number of years on the Reddick contract is pure silliness. There is a lot of financial finagling that goes into player/pick swaps and those contracts are poured over by staff. Douglas specifically? No. There are lackeys that do that and advise him.

Douglas has many, many ties within the Eagle front office and those types of relationships are nurtured, so the Jets had eyed wide open on the Reddick situation walking in.

This is a far flung conspiracy theory at best.

[RutgersJetFan]

10 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

When you were a major player in the cutthroat world of prestige corporate air travel, were you beloved by your many underlings, and would you describe yourself as a Commander or a Survivor? 

The best part about this one is that it's likely going to have the same lasting power as Klecko and the steel undustry.

[Jetsfan80]

5 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

The best part about this one is that it's likely going to have the same lasting power as Klecko and the steel undustry.

[Matt39]

5 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Any conjecture that the jets had no idea about the number of years on the Reddick contract is pure silliness. There is a lot of financial finagling that goes into player/pick swaps and those contracts are poured over by staff. Douglas specifically? No. There are lackeys that do that and advise him.

Douglas has many, many ties within the Eagle front office and those types of relationships are nurtured, so the Jets had eyed wide open on the Reddick situation walking in.

This is a far flung conspiracy theory at best.

What’s the conspiracy? They traded for a player who has not shown up for practice and wants a new contract. 

[Scott Dierking]

2 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

What’s the conspiracy? They traded for a player who has not shown up for practice and wants a new contract. 

Happens every year in this NFL. 

You stated that "the Jets seemed unaware that Reddick was on his final year of his contract".  That is rubbish.

[Matt39]

6 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Happens every year in this NFL. 

You stated that "the Jets seemed unaware that Reddick was on his final year of his contract".  That is rubbish.

Correct me if I’m wrong but teams trading for players on their final year without a plan doesn’t happen frequently .

[bicketybam]

29 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

When you were a major player in the cutthroat world of prestige corporate air travel, were you beloved by your many underlings, and would you describe yourself as a Commander or a Survivor? 

Why the personal attacks, Timmy? Seriously. From what I've been told you never do this sh*t. Why start now?

[Scott Dierking]

3 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Correct me if I’m wrong but teams trading for players on their final year without a plan doesn’t happen frequently .

Teams trade for players with one year contracts all the time. They can say they will "talk" about parameters of a deal, but that is not always fulfilled. It takes 2 sides to strike a deal.

He may be a rental player, he may not. That is between Reddick and the Jets. I am sure both sides understand where each other are. They do not have to agree with each other. But they understand. 

[Matt39]

1 minute ago, Scott Dierking said:

Teams trade for players with one year contracts all the time. They can say they will "talk" about parameters of a deal, but that is not always fulfilled. It takes 2 sides to strike a deal.

He may be a rental player, he may not. That is between Reddick and the Jets. I am sure both sides understand where each other are. They do not have to agree with each other. But they understand. 

He’s missing practices so there doesn’t seem to be much of an understanding.

[bicketybam]

26 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

The best part about this one is that it's likely going to have the same lasting power as Klecko and the steel undustry.

 

21 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

You guys really got his back. Good for you 👍

[Scott Dierking]

5 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

He’s missing practices so there doesn’t seem to be much of an understanding.

And that is his right. Again, happens all the time. The Jets "were under an impression (from the player)" that he would participate when they traded for him. He obviously changed his mind, which is his right.

It was YOU who stated that the Jets seemed "unaware this was his final year on his contract". Again, that is pure silliness.

This is a Zach Wilson beating a dead horse thread, so let's keep it at that.

[Jetsfan80]

32 minutes ago, bicketybam said:

Why the personal attacks, Timmy? Seriously. From what I've been told you never do this sh*t. Why start now?

You consider THAT a personal attack?

 

[bicketybam]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

You consider THAT a personal attack?

 

Who got laid first? You or Tim Tebow? 

That's not a personal attack either 👍

[#27TheDominator]

23 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Perhaps. I still don’t think the Jets really had any idea what they were walking into. Which for a professional team, is uh, concerning.

The Jets have done stupid things in the past, but literally nothing has happened at this point that I did not expect.  I would have been shocked if Reddick showed for the voluntary portion.  He will do his best to try to force the Jets to give him a new deal.  They still might, or they may just move some of his money around and guarantee some.  It makes sense to wait.  If JJ or McDonald looks good, it hurts Reddick's value and those guys probably need more practice snaps than him anyway.  Acting concerned and believing the press rants is the kind of thing that gets Woody nervous and makes stupid sh*t happen.  

[#27TheDominator]

49 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Correct me if I’m wrong but teams trading for players on their final year without a plan doesn’t happen frequently .

Who says they don't have a plan?  I mean besides you.

[#27TheDominator]

With all the bullsh*t in this thread is it odd that the thing that struck me as odd was @Scott Dierking using the word "rubbish?" 

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Who says they don't have a plan?  I mean besides you.

Have the Jets ever struck you as a franchise with a plan?

[Scott Dierking]

5 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

With all the bullsh*t in this thread is it odd that the thing that struck me as odd was @Scott Dierking using the word "rubbish?" 

I think I am turning British.

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, Scott Dierking said:

I think I am turning British.

 @English Jet and Scott:  

 

[Scott Dierking]

8 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

The Jets have done stupid things in the past, but literally nothing has happened at this point that I did not expect.  I would have been shocked if Reddick showed for the voluntary portion.  He will do his best to try to force the Jets to give him a new deal.  They still might, or they may just move some of his money around and guarantee some.  It makes sense to wait.  If JJ or McDonald looks good, it hurts Reddick's value and those guys probably need more practice snaps than him anyway.  Acting concerned and believing the press rants is the kind of thing that gets Woody nervous and makes stupid sh*t happen.  

If you were Reddick's agent, would you advise him, entering a final year, in what will likely be his last big contract, to go to camp and risk an injury? For what reason?

 

[#27TheDominator]

9 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

I think I am turning British.

I think it is surprising I didn't try to wedge a third "odd" into that sentence.

[rangerous]

3 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Relevance?  And at least Chip is still coaching.  He's coming off back-to-back bowl seasons and 3 straight 8+ win seasons with UCLA.  Mark Sanchez "retired" at 28 after failing at 4 other post-Jets stops and finding himself unable to find work.

I'd say the former did better than the latter with his career after they each failed in Philly.

the relevance is that kelly is/was a bad nfl coach.  the other highly picked jet qb's had rex, bowles, gase. and the gm's were tanny, idzik and mac daddy.  where are these guys now?  okay bowles is doing well in tampa but the rest of these coaches aren't.  and it took geno hooking up with pete in seattle before he got a real chance.  darnold may have a shot yet but only because he landed with a decent coach.

[Matt39]

 

24 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Who says they don't have a plan?  I mean besides you.

Well it’s the Jets. 

[Jetsfan80]

12 minutes ago, rangerous said:

the relevance is that kelly is/was a bad nfl coach.  the other highly picked jet qb's had rex, bowles, gase. and the gm's were tanny, idzik and mac daddy.  where are these guys now?  okay bowles is doing well in tampa but the rest of these coaches aren't.  and it took geno hooking up with pete in seattle before he got a real chance.  darnold may have a shot yet but only because he landed with a decent coach.

You overrate coaching my guy.  A great coach can't take dogsh*t and turn it into anything resembling even average QB play (and no - Geno was not "dogsh*t"). 

Sean Payton gets a lot out of his QBs.  Yet he's taken a few looks at Zach Wilson without pads and is already going "Nah".  The same would be true if it was Andy Reid or McVay evaluating him.

These QBs have to enter the league at least reasonably ready to play the position right out of the box.  Coaches don't have time to re-format these guys, nor are they able to help that QB overcome slow processing abilities. 

You and many others seem to think coaches work miracles all the time and they really don't.  What they CAN do is take a good QB and help make him great, or take a below average QB and make him above average or good.  No one can fix what ails Zach Wilson or the many QBs in the league like him who washed out.  You need baseline abilities in this league and the overwhelming majority of QBs simply don't have that. 

It's OK to recognize some guys simply can't do the job and move on to the next one.

[T0mShane]

1 hour ago, bicketybam said:

Why the personal attacks, Timmy? Seriously. From what I've been told you never do this sh*t. Why start now?

Whoa How is that a personal attack? I was using my pervasive social media clout to elevate your profile and this is how you thank me? Also, are you implying that there’s a source feeding you information regarding my ability or willingness to engage in personal attacks? Is this a subforum I’m not aware of? 

[T0mShane]

30 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

If you were Reddick's agent, would you advise him, entering a final year, in what will likely be his last big contract, to go to camp and risk an injury? For what reason?

 

So the thing is they opted not to pay Huff—who ended up getting $17mm per AAV—but now they’re locked in a holdout situation with an older pass rusher who’s going to need more than $17mm per, and they can only do that by pushing money into the future. It does not seem like a coherent plan unless they just straight up hated Huff for some reason. 

[#27TheDominator]

21 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

You overrate coaching my guy.  A great coach can't take dogsh*t and turn it into anything resembling even average QB play (and no - Geno was not "dogsh*t"). 

Sean Payton gets a lot out of his QBs.  Yet he's taken a few looks at Zach Wilson without pads and is already going "Nah".  The same would be true if it was Andy Reid or McVay evaluating him.

These QBs have to enter the league at least reasonably ready to play the position right out of the box.  Coaches don't have time to re-format these guys, nor are they able to help that QB overcome slow processing abilities. 

You and many others seem to think coaches work miracles all the time and they really don't.  What they CAN do is take a good QB and help make him great, or take a below average QB and make him above average or good.  No one can fix what ails Zach Wilson or the many QBs in the league like him who washed out.  You need baseline abilities in this league and the overwhelming majority of QBs simply don't have that. 

It's OK to recognize some guys simply can't do the job and move on to the next one.

I think this may be a thing.  I think it might be why old QBs are looking better in camps.  Guys like Rattler and Nix have been around for ever and still have not taken an NFL snap.   That used to mean that they weren't The Guy.  If they were they'd have come out early.  Maybe they are just seasoned and since you have to pay these ****ers ridiculous money by year five or they are out, who gives a **** if they are 28 or 29 instead of 26 when that time comes?  

[#27TheDominator]

7 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

So the thing is they opted not to pay Huff—who ended up getting $17mm per AAV—but now they’re locked in a holdout situation with an older pass rusher who’s going to need more than $17mm per, and they can only do that by pushing money into the future. It does not seem like a coherent plan unless they just straight up hated Huff for some reason. 

I think it is more that Huff straight up hates them. 

 

12 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Whoa How is that a personal attack? I was using my pervasive social media clout to elevate your profile and this is how you thank me? Also, are you implying that there’s a source feeding you information regarding my ability or willingness to engage in personal attacks? Is this a subforum I’m not aware of? 

subscribed

[bicketybam]

23 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Whoa How is that a personal attack? I was using my pervasive social media clout to elevate your profile and this is how you thank me? Also, are you implying that there’s a source feeding you information regarding my ability or willingness to engage in personal attacks? Is this a subforum I’m not aware of? 

Just read what you wrote. None of it applied to what I wrote. Prestige corporate travel? Seriously? You're being obtuse and you know it. You should be better than this. Prove me right.

[Warfish]

24 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Is this a subforum I’m not aware of? 

It's a subforum.  

[Warfish]

3 minutes ago, bicketybam said:

Prestige corporate travel?

I feel like I'm missing a joke here, isn't this what you said you did professionally like just a few days ago?

[rangerous]

53 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

You overrate coaching my guy.  A great coach can't take dogsh*t and turn it into anything resembling even average QB play (and no - Geno was not "dogsh*t"). 

Sean Payton gets a lot out of his QBs.  Yet he's taken a few looks at Zach Wilson without pads and is already going "Nah".  The same would be true if it was Andy Reid or McVay evaluating him.

These QBs have to enter the league at least reasonably ready to play the position right out of the box.  Coaches don't have time to re-format these guys, nor are they able to help that QB overcome slow processing abilities. 

You and many others seem to think coaches work miracles all the time and they really don't.  What they CAN do is take a good QB and help make him great, or take a below average QB and make him above average or good.  No one can fix what ails Zach Wilson or the many QBs in the league like him who washed out.  You need baseline abilities in this league and the overwhelming majority of QBs simply don't have that. 

It's OK to recognize some guys simply can't do the job and move on to the next one.

Obviously there are limits.  You can’t expect a 5-10 guy to play center.  But I think all Zach needed was to get his head into the game.  Note how Zach improved this past season over his previous.  And you simply can’t discount his late season game against the Texans or the win against Philly and so on.  I suspect if Payton has Zach number three it’s more his way of motivating him to see if he does want to play.  Saleh did not do good things for Zach no matter how much some people say he was pampered.  And the first thing saleh did was start him from day one.  I don’t want to hear that he was forced to by Douglas or even woody.  If saleh had any stones he would’ve refused.  Coaches can ruin players.

[Matt39]