AFJF Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Okay, we all know (although we're not all willing to admit it) that with 26 world series titles, the Yankees are the greatest franchise in the history of american sports, but who's second? The Steelers? 49ers? Dodgers? Celtics? Can we count the Candiens as an american sports team? Discuss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
124 Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Montreal. They've won 21 Championships I believe....but....none of recent and also non-American. Ya know you've got to give The Big D, the Dallas Cowboys, some respect. They've got plenty of rings and they have always been a tough team and rarely ever do they have losing seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted July 11, 2006 Author Share Posted July 11, 2006 Montreal. They've won 21 Championships I believe....but....none of recent and also non-American. Ya know you've got to give The Big D, the Dallas Cowboys, some respect. They've got plenty of rings and they have always been a tough team and rarely ever do they have losing seasons. The same could easily be said about the niners though. With the exception of the last couple of years that team was regular 10 win team with 4 rings to boot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 And you guys really woinder why sport fans in general hate both the Yankees and Yankee fans? You get off on crowning yourself some kind of hypothetical "king of all sports", when that is an impossible nameplate to bestow, but you do it based on sheer "numbers". Well if you want to deal with numbers alone, and that is teh be all to end all, we would have to conclude that the Yankees, overall, are a sports club that is in SEVERE decline. Look at when the majority of those titles were won. During the early half of their existense. If we were to look at the cumulative number of titles won in the past 45 years, compared to teh previous 45 years, well, the numbers are appreciable. I guess then, based on these numbers, which seem to be so important to Yankee fans, and they tell the ENTIRE story, we can only expect the Yankees to be in even further decline in teh future. The numbers tell us so! And based on sheer numbers alone, if I were to name the best team in even baseball and mathematics, I would say the Marlins trump the Yankees as to sheer dominance. The Yankees have won what, 26 titles in say 105 years. And most of those were in the first half of the century when the league had far less teams (read:easier to win in mathematical odds). The Marlins have won 2 titles in 12 years, in a far more competitive arena with greater odds against them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted July 11, 2006 Author Share Posted July 11, 2006 Okay then SD, point taken...the Yankees won a ton of rings in the 20s, 30, 40s, and 50s...since 1960 they've won eight rings, still not too shabby by modern day standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Okay then SD, point taken...the Yankees won a ton of rings in the 20s, 30, 40s, and 50s...since 1960 they've won eight rings, still not too shabby by modern day standards. I won't deny them that. My problem is not with you, or your type (God, that sounds awful), but it is with the fans that stand up on the platform and thump their chest and are all but 20 years old and became a Yankee fan in 1996. They then lay ownership to 26 rings like they have the battle scars that earned them. Call me trite, but something about that scene rankles me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 BTW-Me being a Jet fan, I feel nothing other than a little bit of intrigue for the Jets SB win. I became a fan in '73, and I am proud of the team for winning it, but it is not a badge I get to wear. Maybe I am a little goofy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted July 11, 2006 Author Share Posted July 11, 2006 Look at when the majority of those titles were won. During the early half of their existense. If we were to look at the cumulative number of titles won in the past 45 years, compared to teh previous 45 years, well, the numbers are appreciable. I guess then, based on these numbers, which seem to be so important to Yankee fans, and they tell the ENTIRE story, we can only expect the Yankees to be in even further decline in teh future. The numbers tell us so! . In addition SD, no team can be expected to continue winning rings at the pace the Yankees were on, it's just not possible. But even if you were to look at the last 45 years to omit their best seasons, they stack up with anyone. You may not like them but to say there have been better franchises in american sports....I can't agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
124 Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 BTW-Me being a Jet fan, I feel nothing other than a little bit of intrigue for the Jets SB win. I became a fan in '73, and I am proud of the team for winning it, but it is not a badge I get to wear. Maybe I am a little goofy. A little? BUT, the cool thing about being is 18 is, being a Yankee fan and around for 18 years of life I can say that the Yankees have still won more titles then anybody else while I've been alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted July 11, 2006 Author Share Posted July 11, 2006 I won't deny them that. My problem is not with you, or your type (God, that sounds awful), but it is with the fans that stand up on the platform and thump their chest and are all but 20 years old and became a Yankee fan in 1996. They then lay ownership to 26 rings like they have the battle scars that earned them. Call me trite, but something about that scene rankles me. I agree 100% here...I can't stand the bandwagon fans who never saw a bad Yankee team play. Hell, it's easy to root for a team that you've never seen lose close to 100 games. I have ways of weeding those guys out in any baseball conversation I have and honestly I find myself embarassed by the way some yankee fans carry themselves in talking about the team. I'm proud of the Yankees and what they've accomplished but some people are just too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 In addition SD, no team can be expected to continue winning rings at the pace the Yankees were on, it's just not possible. But even if you were to look at the last 45 years to omit their best seasons, they stack up with anyone. You may not like them but to say there have been better franchises in american sports....well I honestly don't know how you can say that objectively. AFJ-I cannot deny that you would have to consider them. But, the varuiables are too many too definitively crown someone that title. It is not a fair and objective thing to do. It is like a pretty girl contest. Everyone is going to have different criteria. Yes, winning the ultimate is a great variable, but I can't make it the be all to end all. This damn ESPN and their top 10 lists want to make everybody do some kind of lis, and it is just not always that easy and distinguishable. There is debate and should be debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 I agree 100% here...I can't stand the bandwagon fans who never saw a bad Yankee team play. Hell, it's easy to root for a team that you've never seen lose close to 100 games. I have ways of weeding those guys out in any baseball conversation I have and honestly I find myself embarassed by the way some yankee fans carry themselves in talking about the team. I'm proud of the Yankees and what they've accomplished but some people are just too much. I suffered with the Mets in the '70's and lived and died with every game back then, even though those were 100 loss teams. '86 was my epiphany as a sport fan as I watched that team grow and mold itself. I will never get that feeling back again. That is a shame, I guess in some small manner. I like this current team, and I am still a Met fan, but it is different. My boyish enthusisam is gone for the game that I love more than anything. I still have hope for my epiphany with my Jets. I don't know if Sox fans could tell us different, but there is nothing like your first, maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toon88 Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 back to the original question here.....Celtics, no doubt. F the Canadians! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernJet Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Okay then SD, point taken...the Yankees won a ton of rings in the 20s, 30, 40s, and 50s...since 1960 they've won eight rings, still not too shabby by modern day standards. true,, but the early pennants were on a somewhat level playing field, ,scouting etc,, the steinbrenner pennants have been on having more money and not thru being a better 'thinking' franchise per say,, so the nod goes to the early yankees as best old era franchise,, with the steelers 1st 4 super bowl rings being the modern era greatest franchise.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted July 11, 2006 Author Share Posted July 11, 2006 I like this current team, and I am still a Met fan, but it is different. My boyish enthusisam is gone for the game that I love more than anything. It comes with growing up and getting more responsibility. As a kid your favorite team can be the only thing in the world that matters. When you eventually have to work for a living it gets hard to get all wrapped up in the concerns of a multi millionaire who in all honesty could care less if you or I were to drop dead. It makes it hard to watch sometimes and I've had my days where I swear I'm done with sports but at the end of the day I love the game, but it's a lot different than the obsession I had when I was a kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nj meadowlands Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 I love how Mr. Dierking delusionally has the Yankees in some kind of perrennial decline, and yet in the last five years they've been to 2 world series, won the division 5 times, and are competing EVERY SINGLE YEAR. Delusion, delusion, delusion. :eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nj meadowlands Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 back to the original question here.....Celtics, no doubt. F the Canadians! See, toon's a met fan and he's fine with it. NO YELLOW CARD FOR DISSENT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted July 11, 2006 Author Share Posted July 11, 2006 true,, but the early pennants were on a somewhat level playing field, ,scouting etc,, the steinbrenner pennants have been on having more money and not thru being a better 'thinking' franchise per say,, so the nod goes to the early yankees as best old era franchise,, with the steelers 1st 4 super bowl rings being the modern era greatest franchise.. Of the recent (as of the 60s) yankee teams that have won 8 rings, only two have been with a riddiculous financial advantage over the rest of the league. While they have had the top payroll for 3 of the 4 rings, only twice was it by a margain that could be considered "unfair" and of course this is my opinion as there is no set dollar amount for what is fair and unfair. What I do know is that there were other teams in the same ballpark payroll wise with the yankees when they won two of their last four rings (beating the Orioles the year that Baltimore had the #1 payroll). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toon88 Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 I HATE the Yankees and most of their younger fans especially, but it really is no secret who is the most successful franchise in American sports history. They have won 26 titles in roughly a 100 years. That averages out to a title every 4 years! I'm looking at winning and established franchises over a long period of time, so teams like the Marlins, who have been very successful in their short history, I don't even consider in the discussion. No doubt in my opinion that the Boston Celtics are #2 on the list. Another franchise that has history of winning throughout their existance, with the exception of the past 10-15 years or so. 16 titles is still quite an accomplishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernJet Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Of the recent (as of the 60s) yankee teams that have won 8 rings, only two have been with a riddiculous financial advantage over the rest of the league. While they have had the top payroll for 3 of the 4 rings, only twice was it by a margain that could be considered "unfair" and of course this is my opinion as there is no set dollar amount for what is fair and unfair. What I do know is that there were other teams in the same ballpark payroll wise with the yankees when they won two of their last four rings (beating the Orioles the year that Baltimore had the #1 payroll). still a major advantage over MANY of the other teams,, thats why steelers get the nod as they did it on a total level playing field Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 I love how Mr. Dierking delusionally has the Yankees in some kind of perrennial decline, and yet in the last five years they've been to 2 world series, won the division 5 times, and are competing EVERY SINGLE YEAR. Delusion, delusion, delusion. :eek: 80-Way to misconstrue what I said. And, I thought that winning championships were the only thing that was important to Yankee fans? Now, just "competing" makes you happy? Way to adjust your sights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
124 Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 And, I thought that winning championships were the only thing that was important to Yankee fans? *Buzzer sounds* WRONG! 1. Beating Boston 2. Winning Championships Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nj meadowlands Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 80-Way to misconstrue what I said. And, I thought that winning championships were the only thing that was important to Yankee fans? Now, just "competing" makes you happy? Way to adjust your sights. Dude, you called the Yankees a ballclub in SEVERE decline. Winning a championship is an extraordinary thing. Competing every year and getting to the playoffs is in no way indicative of a team in a severe decline... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Dude, you called the Yankees a ballclub in SEVERE decline. Winning a championship is an extraordinary thing. Competing every year and getting to the playoffs is in no way indicative of a team in a severe decline... My whole post was about Yankee fans and thei rlove of NUMBERS, the number 26 to be precise. Reiterating, if I were to pick apart half centuries, and even more precisely, the last quarter century, and use those frames ofreference in terms of the number 26, that 26 piece of pie suddenly has slices that are old and oldest being the bulk of the pie. Hence, a franchise in decline as it relates to the consistency, or once was of winning championships. Your grandfather's Yankees won more consistently than your Yankees have. Same with your father's Yankees. DECLINE. If Yankee fans want to prop 26 up so royally, I will dissect it for them, and point out some of the hurtful truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted July 11, 2006 Author Share Posted July 11, 2006 My whole post was about Yankee fans and thei rlove of NUMBERS, the number 26 to be precise. Reiterating, if I were to pick apart half centuries, and even more precisely, the last quarter century, and use those frames ofreference in terms of the number 26, that 26 piece of pie suddenly has slices that are old and oldest being the bulk of the pie. Hence, a franchise in decline as it relates to the consistency, or once was of winning championships. Your grandfather's Yankees won more consistently than your Yankees have. Same with your father's Yankees. DECLINE. If Yankee fans want to prop 26 up so royally, I will dissect it for them, and point out some of the hurtful truth. But do you not agree that most fans would LOVE to be in decline with four rings in 20 years as opposed to most franchises that get the occasional flash in the pan win? One year and out? An okay team that wins with a bit of luck, a couple of breaks, and a call here and there? Bottom line is that in order to bring the Yankees numbers "down to earth" you have to pick and choose the years that you like, omit the ones you don't like and then the Yankees are only a little better than the rest of the pack. If you were to take every team in baseball and take away their best runs or their best years then there would be a hell of a lot of teams with nothing to show for decades of existence. But after taking almost a half century away from the Yankees, they still stack up with whats left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 But do you not agree that most fans would LOVE to be in decline with four rings in 20 years as opposed to most franchises that get the occasional flash in the pan win? One year and out? An okay team that wins with a bit of luck, a couple of breaks, and a call here and there? Bottom line is that in order to bring the Yankees numbers "down to earth" you have to pick and choose the years that you like, omit the ones you don't like and then the Yankees are only a little better than the rest of the pack. If you were to take every team in baseball and take away their best runs or their best years then there would be a hell of a lot of teams with nothing to show for decades of existence. But after taking almost a half century away from the Yankees, they still stack up with whats left. I absolutely would love to be in that position. I doubt that I would puff about 26, is all I can say. I can only guess to that, as I am not fortunate enough to be in that position. So, I am just spiteful, and will dissect as it fits my advantage. In that, I think I did a pretty good job on short notice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 *Buzzer sounds* WRONG! 1. Beating Boston 2. Winning Championships The truth is out! Yankee fans rip on Red Sox fans at every turn for enjoying Yankee losses just as much as Red Sox wins, yet beating Boston is your top priority! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted July 11, 2006 Author Share Posted July 11, 2006 I absolutely would love to be in that position. I doubt that I would puff about 26, is all I can say. I can only guess to that, as I am not fortunate enough to be in that position. So, I am just spiteful, and will dissect as it fits my advantage. In that, I think I did a pretty good job on short notice Well all I can say is that I appreciate your honesty SD, that's why you're one of the posters who adds a lot to this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted July 11, 2006 Author Share Posted July 11, 2006 The truth is out! Yankee fans rip on Red Sox fans at every turn for enjoying Yankee losses just as much as Red Sox wins, yet beating Boston is your top priority! Now in all seriousness...how much sense does it make to take the opinion of one Yankee fan and say it applies to all Yankee fans? I can give you a perfect example thats right under your nose. Look how SD and LL talk baseball as Met fans, and look at how some of the other Met fans on this board carry themselves. Completely incapable of having a baseball related conversation unless it's a veiled attempt at taking shots at the Yankees. SD and LL put many Mets fans on this board to shame IMO so I tend to separate those worthy of listening to, and those who aren't...well thats what the ignore feature is for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nj meadowlands Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 The truth is out! Yankee fans rip on Red Sox fans at every turn for enjoying Yankee losses just as much as Red Sox wins, yet beating Boston is your top priority! JF, replace "Yankee fans" with 124. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garb Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Boston Red Sox. No other team can claim that they broke an 86 year curse. That had to be awfully hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nj meadowlands Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Boston Red Sox. No other team can claim that they broke an 86 year curse. That had to be awfully hard. Garb, there was no curse, you guys just sucked for an entire century! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernJet Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Boston Red Sox. No other team can claim that they broke an 86 year curse. That had to be awfully hard. and didnt u break it by comin back from a 0-3 hole,, baseball gods couldnt have written it any better,, ooops,, airforce dude wont approve of this yankee banter, , after all , he is the expert of all posting rules,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted July 11, 2006 Author Share Posted July 11, 2006 Boston Red Sox. No other team can claim that they broke an 86 year curse. That had to be awfully hard. While that was a great season and series for the Sox and the few Boston fans that actually deserved to see a winner, I don't think that one great season constitutes being one of the greatest franchises of all time. One of the greatest comebacks of all time no doubt, but thats about where it ends for Boston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernJet Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 While that was a great season and series for the Sox and the few Boston fans that actually deserved to see a winner, I don't think that one great season constitutes being one of the greatest franchises of all time. One of the greatest comebacks of all time no doubt, but thats about where it ends for Boston. No, that would be THE GREATEST COMEBACK OF ALL-TIME Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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