Dan Leberfeld.....Fix the scheme

[SoFlaJets]

Dec 14, 2006

There is going to be a symposium this Sunday in the Metrodome.

It's going to be on the art of run defense.

How to play it -- and how not to play it.

The Minnesota Vikings' No. 1-ranked run defense is amazing, and it all starts with the Williams boys at defensive tackle -- Pat and Kevin, perhaps the best tandem in football.

How good is Minnesota's run defense? Miami finished a recent game with minus-3 yards rushing.

And now we turn to the Jets. While they have improved a little recently to move their ranking up from the bottom of the league to 26th, this is still not a good run defense. The root of this problem is two-fold: scheme and talent. And they are tied together. The Jets don't have the right personnel to play the 3-4 front. Yet, they keep playing it.

Eric Mangini said repeatedly in the spring and summer that the Jets would play multiple fronts; whatever gave them the best chance to win each week.

So the thinking was the Jets would constantly switch between the 4-3 defense that suits their personnel a lot better, and Mangini's preferred front, the 3-4.

I asked a Jets defender recently, "How often do you guys play the 4-3?"

"Never," he said.

So perhaps Mangini has shelved the system-flexibility for the scheme he's most comfortable playing. Remember, Mangini has learned almost all of his defensive football from Bill Parcells and Bill Belichick, two guys that love the 3-4.

But in Parcells' first year in Dallas he played a 4-3 because that best-suited his talent. Then in Year Two, thanks to an influx of 3-4 players through the draft and free agency, he made the switch.

Mangini probably should have taken the same approach, but he hasn't, and that is a big reason why the Jets' run defense has been the Achilles heel of the team.

In extensively playing the 3-4, the Jets have lessened the talent of their three most talented front seven players -- defensive tackle Dewayne Robertson, defensive end Shaun Ellis and linebacker Jonathan Vilma.

No matter how Mangini wants to spin it, Robertson isn't a 3-4 nose tackle, and don't take that as a criticism of the player. It's totally not his fault.

He's just not big enough for the role. If you want to see what 3-4 nose tackles should look like, you will have three excellent examples in the Jets' next two games.

With the Vikings currently playing a 3-4, Pat Williams is out of central casting to play nose tackle. He is 6-3, about 340 pounds -- strong, quick and stout, and most importantly, very good at tying up two blockers to allow others to make tackles.

Then you have Miami's tandem of 6-2, 337-pound Keith Traylor and 6-4, 340-pound Dan "Big Daddy" Wilkinson.

You need a huge, athletic nose tackle to make the 3-4 defense work correctly.

You also need defensive ends who look like Miami's ends -- Kevin Carter (6-6, 305) and Vonnie Holiday (6-5, 288) -- ends that look like offensive tackles, which makes sense, because they need to do a good job "blocking" opposing linemen to help keep the linebackers free.

The Jets are lacking in this area as well. They are playing two 35-year-old ends way too much -- Bobby Hamilton and Kimo von Oelhoffen. Both have lateral movement issues after over a decade in the league. Why the Jets continue to play these guys extensively and keep Dave Ball, who is a decade younger and a lot more mobile, on the bench is a mystery.

Jonathan Vilma is a Pro Bowl-caliber player, but not in this system - at least, not yet. (AP)

As for Shaun Ellis, he has the size to succeed in the 3-4, but you wonder if his heart is into this system. It's no secret he prefers the 4-3, as do most athletic defensive ends like Ellis. He's had his moments, but for the kind of money he's making he isn't making enough of a splash.

So with these issues on the defensive front, it's hurting the effectiveness of stud linebacker Jonathan Vilma. I still can't get over the press box stats from the Jets loss to Buffalo last week. Vilma was credited with one tackle.

That is shocking for a guy who led the Jets with 187 tackles last year and made the Pro Bowl. This year, through 13 games, he has 97, which is way off last year's pace.

He's a 6-1, 230-pound linebacker who has to constantly take on offensive linemen, which isn't his strong suit. You really have to wonder if he's miscast in this defense. One Buffalo Bill thinks he is.

"I got up on him a couple of times," Bills left tackle Jason Peters told Jets Confidential.

"He doesn't like it when somebody gets up on him and blocks him. He is more of a sideline-to-sideline, fill-the-gap type of guy. He is more of a 4-3 guy. The 3-4, I don't know. It's going to be hard for him to make plays in the 3-4."

Actually it is possible for him to make plays in a 3-4 if he is offered the proper protection. Zach Thomas is having a great season in Miami and he's about Vilma's size. He gets protected very well by Traylor, Carter and company.

These Jets problems aren't going to get fixed now. This is a project for the off-season.

And it's going to be a major project this week for the Jets to stop the Vikings' running attack. The Vikings have a huge, athletic offensive line that averages 6-5, 324-pounds across the board. This could turn out to be a nightmare for Gang Green's somewhat undersized front seven. The left side of the Vikings line could really present a problem, with the high-priced, talented duo of New Jersey's Bryant "Mount" McKinnie (6-8, 343) and Steve Hutchinson (6-5, 313).

On top of a huge, talented line, the Vikings have a stable of talented running backs with Chester Taylor, Ciatrick Fason and Artose Pinner. All have had success this year. Taylor's the starter, but his status for Sunday is unclear due to an injury.

The Jets will have to overcome their personnel deficiencies to stop this running attack with an effort of biblical proportions.

And they could learn a thing or two about stopping the run by watching the Vikings.

[JetsMan57]

How many more articles is leberfeld going to write about the Jets not having the proper players for the 3-4. ENOUGH DAN.

[Gibbon]

For the most part I think -- after listening to their questions and then reading their articles -- I think that most of the Jets beat reporters are a group of arogant S.O.B.s who are convinced that they know more about coaching an NFL football team than Mangini. This despite the fact that they regularly make mistakes of fact and conjecture in their articles eventhough their entire job is to report on the Jets (Wasnt Leberfeld the one who was crying over cutting Ryan Myers and claiming that it was done because they had to get him out of the way so Schlegel could play? Which turned out to be completely inacurate BS). Its clear that the media types dont care for Mangini and his admin. They are constantly trying to stir up crap and make Mangini appear stupid.

Where the hell does Leberfeld get off saying that Mangini probably should have followed Parcells lead and played the 4-3 this year? The D has undergone some growing pains under the 3-4 but hasnt it helped the Jets win 7 games this year when everyone thought they would win 3? The D looked pretty good against the Pats, the Bears, and the Texans. Dont the Jets still have a chance to get a Wild Card birth?

What the F does Leberfeld know about coaching D. If I was Mangini the next time Dan asked me a question during a press conference I'd tell him shove his lap top where the sun doesnt shine.

BTW -- I like Andrew Gross' articles and blog. He seems more humble and more interested in straight reporting.

[JetsMan57]

For the most part I think -- after listening to their questions and then reading their articles -- I think that most of the Jets beat reporters are a group of arogant S.O.B.s who are convinced that they know more about coaching an NFL football team than Mangini. This despite the fact that they regularly make mistakes of fact and conjecture in their articles eventhough their entire job is to report on the Jets (Wasnt Leberfeld the one who was crying over cutting Ryan Myers and claiming that it was done because they had to get him out of the way so Schlegel could play? Which turned out to be completely inacurate BS). Its clear that the media types dont care for Mangini and his admin. They are constantly trying to stir up crap and make Mangini appear stupid.

Where the hell does Leberfeld get off saying that Mangini probably should have followed Parcells lead and played the 4-3 this year? The D has undergone some growing pains under the 3-4 but hasnt it helped the Jets win 7 games this year when everyone thought they would win 3? The D looked pretty good against the Pats, the Bears, and the Texans. Dont the Jets still have a chance to get a Wild Card birth?

What the F does Leberfeld know about coaching D. If I was Mangini the next time Dan asked me a question during a press conference I'd tell him shove his lap top where the sun doesnt shine.

BTW -- I like Andrew Gross' articles and blog. He seems more humble and more interested in straight reporting.

Leberfeld is a good guy, but his biggest problem as a reporter is he stuffs his feelings down his reader's throats. If he feels something, be prepared to read about it all offseason or in-season. Remember his Brooks Bollinger should be the starter tirades?

But he was one of the few who never kissed Herm's butt from the onset. So I give him props for that.

[4HCrew]

ever since Leberfeld started working on Sirius he seems to be more opinionated and thinks he knows every aspect of football

[bitonti]

I agree with Leberfeld in the sense that Mangini isn't flexible enough with the defensive fronts. He's supposed to be a Belly clone, well Belly doesn't stick exclusively to one front, regardless of his player's strengths. I know Mangini is trying to establish his defense but you can't take 4-3 players and put them in a a 3-4 and hope it will work. If this was the case, everyone would play the 3-4. Belly wasn't ashamed to go 4-3 when he had more good DL than LB and Mangini shouldn't be scared either.

[JetsMan57]

I agree with Leberfeld in the sense that Mangini isn't flexible enough with the defensive fronts. He's supposed to be a Belly clone, well Belly doesn't stick exclusively to one front, regardless of his player's strengths. I know Mangini is trying to establish his defense but you can't take 4-3 players and put them in a a 3-4 and hope it will work. If this was the case, everyone would play the 3-4. Belly wasn't ashamed to go 4-3 when he had more good DL than LB and Mangini shouldn't be scared either.

Leberfeld is being a bit diengenous here too, he went silent with his 3-4 tirades from the Pats game up until this week when the Jets were giving up an average of 11 points per game. He points to the fact that Green Bay rushed for 150 yards on us, but 33 came from Brett Favre and Ahman Green's biggest run of the game was when our NT iwth a broken hand was in teh game. His second biggest run came in garbage time when the Jets were playing prevent. After one bad game against hte Bills (which was really 2 bad plays the whole game) he gets right back at harping about the 3-4.

[JetsMan57]

I agree with Leberfeld in the sense that Mangini isn't flexible enough with the defensive fronts. He's supposed to be a Belly clone, well Belly doesn't stick exclusively to one front, regardless of his player's strengths. I know Mangini is trying to establish his defense but you can't take 4-3 players and put them in a a 3-4 and hope it will work. If this was the case, everyone would play the 3-4. Belly wasn't ashamed to go 4-3 when he had more good DL than LB and Mangini shouldn't be scared either.

Leberfeld is being a bit diengenous here too, he went silent with his 3-4 tirades from the Pats game up until this week when the Jets were giving up an average of 11 points per game. He points to the fact that Green Bay rushed for 150 yards on us, but 33 came from Brett Favre and Ahman Green's biggest run of the game was when our NT iwth a broken hand was in teh game. His second biggest run came in garbage time when the Jets were playing prevent. After one bad game against hte Bills (which was really 2 bad plays the whole game) he resumes his 3-4 tirades.

I am not saying the Jets dont need better personell, they do, but the current group HAVE shown improvement over the last few weeks and they have us right in the thick of the playoff race.

[Boozer76]

The D has improved steadily throughout the season. The D is doing a hell of a job not allowing alot of points and giving the O every chance in the world to win a game. Switching to a 4-3 might give individual players a better chance to gain some eye catching stats, but it will do nothing in terms of lowering the total points allowed in a game. The players just aren't that great rgardless of the scheme.

Maybe Leberfeld should pull his head out of his ass for a moment and write an article about the one key player who has progressively gotten worse all year and pretty much single handedly lost 3 games for us.

[bitonti]

nitpick: i believe Moore was inactive for last week's game, Mosely was in on that play - but your point stands.

I just beleive if your choices are to be versatile or not be versatile why choose the latter? The Jets on offense have no problems using any formation ever conceived, i just don't understand why the Jets insist on a 3 man front, almost regardless of the situation? Let's be honest they aren't exactly getting the most out of their talent with the 3 man front he makes a good point about Ellis and vilma, both are top flight players in the 4-3 but jags in the 3-4.

[4HCrew]

so Bit based on what you saw this year and the Jets desire to lean towards 3-4 do you keep Vilma around or trade him?

[aec4]

How many more articles is leberfeld going to write about the Jets not having the proper players for the 3-4. ENOUGH DAN.

Someone needs to tell Dan that in Herm's tenure playing the 4-3, we were in the mid-20s against the run as well.. It would not have made a huge difference.

[bitonti]

so Bit based on what you saw this year and the Jets desire to lean towards 3-4 do you keep Vilma around or trade him?

i think based on Mangini's experience with Bruschi getting alot better in the system in year 2, you have to keep him and see what happens.

[PFSIKH]

i think based on Mangini's experience with Bruschi getting alot better in the system in year 2, you have to keep him and see what happens.

There were a few Patriots' players that noted the second year they were acting alot more as oppossed to reacting.

[JetsMan57]

nitpick: i believe Moore was inactive for last week's game, Mosely was in on that play - but your point stands.

I just beleive if your choices are to be versatile or not be versatile why choose the latter? The Jets on offense have no problems using any formation ever conceived, i just don't understand why the Jets insist on a 3 man front, almost regardless of the situation? Let's be honest they aren't exactly getting the most out of their talent with the 3 man front he makes a good point about Ellis and vilma, both are top flight players in the 4-3 but jags in the 3-4.

I was referring to Ahman Green's big run, not McGahee's. I was at the game in GB and saw what happened. Moore was in teh game with his cast, couldnt grap the center and he got thrown to the ground literally and Green burst right up the seam.

You do have a point though, Mangini said he'd be flexible and hasnt been. But the D has shown improvement over the last month or so. Leberfeld acts like they are regressing.

[Boozer76]

I'll ask it again: With the exception of the JAX game, has this D ever allowed so many points in a game that the offense did not have a chance to win the game? Do you really think we're going to allow less than 17-20 points a game by switching to the 4-3?

[JetsMan57]

I'll ask it again: With the exception of the JAX game, has this D ever allowed so many points in a game that the offense did not have a chance to win the game? Do you really think we're going to allow less than 17-20 points a game by switching to the 4-3?

It also needs to be asked, if we go to the 4-3 who plays NT? Rashad Moore is a JAG. Kimo cant do it at this age. In addition who plays DE opposite of Ellis? Kimo is not athletic enough to play 4-3 DE, Bryan Thomas weighs 245. I think Mangini and Sutton pondered these things.

THE Jets would be an average 4-3 team too. Only difference is Vilma would make more tackles and LEberfeld would be happy.

[Boozer76]

Here's your "much maligned" D's performance since the JAX game:

17 points to MIA

24 points to DET

20 to CLE (3 of which they only had to go 6 yrds for the FG after a Chad INT)

14 to NE

10 to CHI

11 to HOU

10 to GB (the only GB TD came when Chad threw a pick and GB had to only go 37 yds)

17 to BUF (I can't even mention the 2 TD's that Chad gave to BUF)

That's an average of 15 points allowed per game. That puts them in the top 5 D's in average points allowed. Somebody want to try and explain to me where the problem on this team lies again?

If this D only allowed the best avg in the NFL (BAL with 13.1) we would have still lost to CLE, CHI, and BUF. So please, tell me how this D is responsible for any of those losses whatsoever?? This is nothing but a bunch of mularkey from beat writiers who just like Chad too much to put any blame on him. He's such a "nice guy"!!

[KSJets]

Here's your "much maligned" D's performance since the JAX game:

17 points to MIA

24 points to DET

20 to CLE (3 of which they only had to go 6 yrds for the FG after a Chad INT)

14 to NE

10 to CHI

11 to HOU

10 to GB (the only GB TD came when Chad threw a pick and GB had to only go 37 yds)

17 to BUF (I can't even mention the 2 TD's that Chad gave to BUF)

That's an average of 15 points allowed per game. That puts them in the top 5 D's in average points allowed. Somebody want to try and explain to me where the problem on this team lies again?

If this D only allowed the best avg in the NFL (BAL with 13.1) we would have still lost to CLE, CHI, and BUF. So please, tell me how this D is responsible for any of those losses whatsoever?? This is nothing but a bunch of mularkey from beat writiers who just like Chad too much to put any blame on him. He's such a "nice guy"!!

Well, the offense was good enough to go 5-3 in those games, that's not exactly bad.

[Boozer76]

Well, the offense was good enough to go 5-3 in those games, that's not exactly bad.

Not exactly the point either. Leberfeld is implying the D is the focal problem with the Jets, and the reason why we aren't better. He's claiming that Mangini is doing the wrong thing on D. How can being 5th overall in points allowed in the last 8 games be doing the wrong thing? I call that doing a hell of a job considering the personnel he's working with on the defensive side of the ball. My point is the fact that the D is probably the best part of our team right now, and they are the reason we are in games. The fact that we can't count on Chad to put up points and not throw stupid INT's is why we haven't won 6-8 games in that span.

[bitonti]

booz i agree the defense has been adequate - but it always can be better.

[PatsFanTX]

No matter how Mangini wants to spin it, Robertson isn't a 3-4 nose tackle

Mangini must have been out pounding beers with bit.

[KSJets]

Not exactly the point either. Leberfeld is implying the D is the focal problem with the Jets, and the reason why we aren't better. He's claiming that Mangini is doing the wrong thing on D. How can being 5th overall in points allowed in the last 8 games be doing the wrong thing? I call that doing a hell of a job considering the personnel he's working with on the defensive side of the ball. My point is the fact that the D is probably the best part of our team right now, and they are the reason we are in games. The fact that we can't count on Chad to put up points and not throw stupid INT's is why we haven't won 6-8 games in that span.

Most reporters only look at the last game when writing their articles most of the time, without doing the research either. Also remember that the defense was playing like utter crap earlier in the year and it was the offense keeping us in games. You have to look at the whole year, and not just bits and pieces.

[Boozer76]

booz i agree the defense has been adequate - but it always can be better.

So you expect Mangini to have this unit allowing the least amount of points in the NFL?? You really think that's a valid expectation? There isn't a scheme in the world that will take this unit from allowing the 5th least amount of points over the last 8 weeks to the least amount of points. Nothing they could have changed to accomplish that. It is an absolutely icredible accomplishment that they have done what they have.

This is what I'm talking about-There are threads like this that criticize a unit that is actually doing quite well, much better than they should be, and alot of people jump on board. Meanwhile I get crucified whenever I try to point out how bad Chad is playing. the priorities around here are mind boggling!!

[Boozer76]

Most reporters only look at the last game when writing their articles most of the time, without doing the research either. Also remember that the defense was playing like utter crap earlier in the year and it was the offense keeping us in games. You have to look at the whole year, and not just bits and pieces.

Come on man. Look at the numbers before you make a blatantly incorrect claim like that. in the first 5 games we wre 2-3. We allowed 31 points to IND. Not exactly a terrible thing, considering IND can put up 31 points at the drop of a dime. JAX was an atrocity, and not for nothing Chad's ridiculously bad play certainly contributed to a few of those points. A punt block resulted in 7 points, Chad's INT that put JAX on our 23 certianly cxontributed, and another INT that put JAX on our 25 yd line. That's 21 pointsa directly as a result of poor offensive/SpT's. In the games we won (2), the D allowed 16 and 20 points repectively. The offense did not win those games despite the D, they won while the D was doing their job.

[bitonti]

So you expect Mangini to have this unit allowing the least amount of points in the NFL?? You really think that's a valid expectation?

the strength of schedule probably skews the points against defense. in terms of yardage they are like 27th right? definately room for improvement.

[PeterNorth09]

Someone needs to tell Dan that in Herm's tenure playing the 4-3, we were in the mid-20s against the run as well.. It would not have made a huge difference.

In the first 2-3 years under Herm-way the Jets were running a 4-3 scheme with 3-4 players (Ferguson, Mo Lewis, Marvin Jones etc.). The opposite problem from what we have now. If the Jets signed a a 300 pound DT to play alongside Robertson, signed a pass rusher end and went to a 4-3 the defense would probably be pretty good.

[Boozer76]

In the first 2-3 years under Herm-way the Jets were running a 4-3 scheme with 3-4 players (Ferguson, Mo Lewis, Marvin Jones etc.). The opposite problem from what we have now. If the Jets signed a a 300 pound DT to play alongside Robertson, signed a pass rusher end and went to a 4-3 the defense would probably be pretty good.

And if monkeys flew out of my ass, we'd have won a SB by now. I guarantee it.

With the D, running game, and OL along with the outstanding job the coaching has done, I have no doubt in my mind that we would have been 10-3 right now if not for the crappy QB play. A half decent QB gets us to 10-3. Plain and simple.

[PeterNorth09]

And if monkeys flew out of my ass, we'd have won a SB by now. I guarantee it.

With the D, running game, and OL along with the outstanding job the coaching has done, I have no doubt in my mind that we would have been 10-3 right now if not for the crappy QB play. A half decent QB gets us to 10-3. Plain and simple.

Leinart?

[Boozer76]

Leinart?

No. Not as a rookie and really not ever in the meadowlands. With his pea shooter it would be Pennington all over again.

[PeterNorth09]

No. Not as a rookie and really not ever in the meadowlands. With his pea shooter it would be Pennington all over again.

Leinart's arm looked pretty strong last week throwing those deep bombs against the Seahawks. But hey, we'll once again miss the boat this off-season by not even trying to move up and draft Quinn even though Vilma + 1st Round Pick would probably seal the deal.

[Bugg]

And if monkeys flew out of my ass, we'd have won a SB by now. I guarantee it.

With the D, running game, and OL along with the outstanding job the coaching has done, I have no doubt in my mind that we would have been 10-3 right now if not for the crappy QB play. A half decent QB gets us to 10-3. Plain and simple.

Plain and simple, the Bears and Browns games were totally winnable if the Jets get any kind of decent play at QB. You can argue about the Pats and Indy losses, but those offenses and QBs are superior. The defense didn't have it's best days against the Bills and jags, but both blowoouts had a meaty helping hand from QB turnovers. And if the QB's big selling point is his brain rather than his arm, he cannot have more turnovers than TDs.

One thing that makes me broderline deranged-the fumbles and strips on sacks. Simply good QBs take the hit and hang on to the ball, PERIOD, Not Pennington. Those plays for as long as he's been here have been a major problem.