So When Does Torre Get Whacked?

[TomShane]

Piniella is on the way out in Tampa. The Yanks are lifeless. It is clear they have tuned Joe out. It's now just a matter of time. When does George pull the trigger?

Does he wait for another humiliating 12-3 loss, after whic he is forved to humiliate Torre?

or

Does he wait for a three-game slide after which Torre graciously "steps down"?

[TaborJet]

We'll just take Willie Randolph back.

[Maxman]

Pinella is the only manager in baseball that I would replace Torre with. That being said I wouldn't fire Joe. He has done too much.

But if it happens, Lou is the new guy.

[TomShane]

Pinella is the only manager in baseball that I would replace Torre with. That being said I wouldn't fire Joe. He has done too much.

But if it happens, Lou is the new guy.

I think they should give Billy Martin another shot:

[Garb]

Pinella as the new Yanks coach? That would sure fuel the Sox/Yanks rivarlry. Tell the boys to watch for wandering chin music.

[shawn306]

Considering Lou's love the the Red Sox

Beanball's would be aplenty.

Torre is not going anywhere. Granted the team is playing horribly they are still in the race and will probably still win the AL East.

Too much talent on this team to keep playing like this. They will ride this out like always and get the ball rolling.

[Mavrik]

Pinella as the new Yanks coach? That would sure fuel the Sox/Yanks rivarlry. Tell the boys to watch for wandering chin music.

What exactly does replacing Joe Torre with Lou Pinella midseason accomplish? So the Yankees replace Torre with Pinella. Pinella arrives with the same underachieving team as the one he's stuck with in Tampa. It is not the management that is the problem in New York. It is the talent. Torre can't physically make the Derek Jeters or the Hideki Matsui's or the Gary Sheffields get a situational hit in an important game. The Yanks problem the entire year is that during situational at-bats they do poorly with runners in scoring position.

This was the inevitable result of spending years and years on the "win now" philosophy. You have 200+ million poorly invested in players who are either past their prime or are players never worth that much in the first place. You traded for a 42 year old pitcher, who as evident last season, was already losing velocity on both his fastballs and his sliders. As big a player as RJ has been, he IS human, and eventually everyone will start to wear down. You rewarded Carl Pavano for his one good season and are now regretting it and Jaret Wright has been nowhere near the worth of his nearly 6 million dollar salary this year. The Yanks knew they were getting an injury prone starting pitcher in Kevin Brown who's potential risks were much larger than the rewards, and for the most part, Brown has contributed nothing to the team for the past season and half. And last but not least, you have nearly 26 million dollars in two over the hill players in Bernie Williams and Jason Giambi.

All the while, the Yankees have one of the most barren farm systems in the majors. Teams looking to improve themselves for the future no longer want to trade with them because they have little or nothing to offer them talent wise. Again, a result of the "win now" philosophy.

Yankee fans can go ahead and blame whomever they want. But like all Empires, they can and will fall. It was INEVITABLE. Steinbrenner can blame Torre or Cashman or Mattingly or Stottlmyre (sp?), but he's as much to blame for this as anyone else.

If the Yankees want to stay on top, they had better learn to invest their money more wisely in players with large upsides, and rebuild the farm system from the ground up. Because if they dont, all I can say is, welcome to my life as a Tiger fan for the past 10 years.

[TomShane]

Post O' The Day there

[Jet/BosoxFan]

all this talk about Lou being the next Yankee manager is silly enough...but you Yankee fans are really outdoing yourselves this time.

You really think if by some miracle Lou Piniella was actually to land in NY...all of a sudden this current Yankee roster would collectively grow a set of testicles and start beaning people?

They have no heart nor will they ever, Sweet Lou or not!

Whats Lou gonna do? Tell some washed-up scrub-ass like Kevin Brown to hit somebody in the head or he is cut? Or tell Giamboo to stop sucking or he's cut? Or tell some primadonna like A-hole to take out somebody in the basepath as opposed to girlishly slapping at his mitt or he's cut?

I mean c'mon here! george makes the decisions who stays or who goes thats why youve been stuck in this loser abyss...Lou would have no more or less say in these matters as Torre and Cashman. Torre wanted to keep Pettite, he got Sheffield. Cashman wanted more Tino, he got Giamboo. They both wanted Curt Schilling, they got A-hole!

All that would happen differently is Lou would overturn tables, throw chairs, kick his hat up and down the 1st baseline and cuss players/umpires out. Do you guys really think that will make Randy Johnson, C Pavano, T Gordon, and P Quantrill pitch better? Or will it make Giamboo, Tino, Whore-hay, and Bernie stop sucking? Will it make A-hole be clutch all of a sudden???

dont be silly!!!

[haggis]

Why does the word, Whore-hay, make me laugh so much?

Anyhew, Lou would love to be the NYY manager, but the team is in dire straits with such a weak farm system. You would have to ignite the current old bums and hope they can perform while bringing up/in young talent in trades and drafts. Torre is not necessarily the problem here. Being unable to offload overpriced old guys is. You can't trade most the yankee of the players as their salaries are just too damn high. Giambi alone is suffocating with his salary. Could you imagine if Jeter or RJ went down? That would be a combined $38M in wasted salary. Perhaps the yanks need to look at a little moneyball type approach. Then again, the yanks make the playoffs EVERY year with this current approach. That's successful for pretty much any club. But the yanks NEED to win it EVERY year given their style of approach.

[Jetsfan80]

Torre is not going anywhere. Granted the team is playing horribly they are still in the race and will probably still win the AL East.

Too much talent on this team to keep playing like this. They will ride this out like always and get the ball rolling.

I respect the optimism, but I think it's about time you gave up on the Yankees making a playoff push in that division.

[shawn306]

I respect the optimism, but I think it's about time you gave up on the Yankees making a playoff push in that division.

Maybe they do. Maybe they don't

Here is the way I'm looking at this.

1) While the Orioles have the best lineup 1-9 I still want to see what their pitching does down the stretch. Miller has done a PHENOMINAL job with them since he came over.

2) The Red Sox and the Yankees are both seriously flawed teams. The Sox are still waiting on Schilling, Manny for whatever reason is not Manny. Foulke is a mess they right now.

3) The Yankees are old, The pitching is a mess and they don't hit in the clutch.

One thing to remember though it only takes a spark to set a team off. You saw it last year with the Sox with the A-Rod-Varitek incident. The Astros were a mess for most of the season until Garner came on board.

6 1/2 games is not insurmountable. We just have to see what (if anything) is left in the tank.

[Jetsfan80]

Maybe they do. Maybe they don't

Here is the way I'm looking at this.

1) While the Orioles have the best lineup 1-9 I still want to see what their pitching does down the stretch. Miller has done a PHENOMINAL job with them since he came over.

2) The Red Sox and the Yankees are both seriously flawed teams. The Sox are still waiting on Schilling, Manny for whatever reason is not Manny. Foulke is a mess they right now.

3) The Yankees are old, The pitching is a mess and they don't hit in the clutch.

One thing to remember though it only takes a spark to set a team off. You saw it last year with the Sox with the A-Rod-Varitek incident. The Astros were a mess for most of the season until Garner came on board.

6 1/2 games is not insurmountable. We just have to see what (if anything) is left in the tank.

Of course 6.5 games in June is not insurmountable. But when you have to fight 3 other teams to get there, AND when you consider that the wild card may not come out of the AL East this year, it does seem like an extremely daunting task for a team with zero intensity or heart.

[shawn306]

Of course 6.5 games in June is not insurmountable. But when you have to fight 3 other teams to get there, AND when you consider that the wild card may not come out of the AL East this year, it does seem like an extremely daunting task for a team with zero intensity or heart.

Wild Card will not come out of the East this year.

Bank on it.

Chicago and Minnesota with their division will be able to get 93-95 wins so a wild card is most likely out of the picture.

Let's put it this way.

The Yankees when they went on that 16-2 run basically were able to cut the lead from what 8 to 2 games ?

That is what I'm saying. As horribly as the Yanks played on that road trip they still only lost minimal ground because the Orioles and the Sox struggled as well.

I would be shocked if the Yankees don't put on a major run before this season comes to an end.

[Jetsfan80]

Wild Card will not come out of the East this year.

Bank on it.

Chicago and Minnesota with their division will be able to get 93-95 wins so a wild card is most likely out of the picture.

Let's put it this way.

The Yankees when they went on that 16-2 run basically were able to cut the lead from what 8 to 2 games ?

That is what I'm saying. As horribly as the Yanks played on that road trip they still only lost minimal ground because the Orioles and the Sox struggled as well.

I would be shocked if the Yankees don't put on a major run before this season comes to an end.

But if it takes a 16-2 type of run to cut a mere 6 games off the lead (only to immediately lose ground in a subsequent losing streak), then I can't say the Yankees have much of a chance.

[Bugg]

What exactly does replacing Joe Torre with Lou Pinella midseason accomplish? So the Yankees replace Torre with Pinella.

True. In midseason,it's insanity. It does nothing to solve the Ynak's problems-pitchers who don't produce once they get here, an old poorly-constructed team, and a cleanup hitter who is done, but still owed serious bucks to the point that they can't get rid of him.

After the season is over, who knows? But for all his fire(and Torre's lack of it) Piniella was among the same Yanks managers in the late 80s/early 90s who mismanaged and pissed away pitching regularly(Drabek, Leiter, Tewksbury), and wasn't much better managing the staffs of the Mariners and Reds. Even in the year he won it all, he was slugging it out with Rob Dibble. Granted, he's older and still very good friends with Steinbrenner. But this just may be that year when the Yankees playoff streak is broken.While Torre shares some of the blame, there's plenty to go around.