red sox to consider trade bucholz/lester/ellsbury for miggy cabera???

[madmike1]

Fluke or not, the fact remains. You were wrong.

He was better. Fluke or not, you were wrong. Again.

I think the exact quote you used was Pedroia is "horrible". I'll have to see if I can find it. You definitely rated him as a C prospect though. Again, wrong.

I never claimed to be able to predict what would happen in single seasons. I just can look at a player history and make a value judgment. I never claimed any thing different. Over the long hall what a player is is represented by their career track record and that comes out. The problem with you is that you have no sense of what a players career stats mean or the context in which a single season falls in and you don't make any attempt to be more informed.

[Thor99]

I never claimed to be able to predict what would happen in single seasons. I just can look at a player history and make a value judgment. I never claimed any thing different. Over the long hall what a player is is represented by their career track record and that comes out. The problem with you is that you have no sense of what a players career stats mean or the context in which a single season falls in and you don't make any attempt to be more informed.

Yes, you do predict what will happen in single seasons. You do it all the time. "Lowell will fade", "Beckett will revert". These are absolute predictions. Now you are running and saying that you were just making a 'value judgement'. This is exactly why everyone here has a problem with you. I understand that historically, Lowell has often faded in the second half. But you said that he will. You stated it as fact. He didn't. Admit that you were wrong. I did it in the Wes Welker thread. It's not that hard.

With young players like Beckett, I also understand that they can get better. Their career stats don't necessarily tell the whole story.

[madmike1]

Yes, you do predict what will happen in single seasons. You do it all the time. "Lowell will fade", "Beckett will revert". These are absolute predictions. Now you are running and saying that you were just making a 'value judgement'. This is exactly why everyone here has a problem with you. I understand that historically, Lowell has often faded in the second half. But you said that he will. You stated it as fact. He didn't. Admit that you were wrong. I did it in the Wes Welker thread. It's not that hard.

With young players like Beckett, I also understand that they can get better. Their career stats don't necessarily tell the whole story.

Beckett is the pitcher he's been over 1000 innings not the best 200 innings of his career.

[Thor99]

Beckett is the pitcher he's been over 1000 innings not the best 200 innings of his career.

I am the weight I am right now. Not the average weight over the last 10 years.

[Scott Dierking]

Beckett is the pitcher he's been over 1000 innings not the best 200 innings of his career.

Ignore the fact that those innings came in the most recent season.

Beckett had ONE year (2006) in which his numbers could be characterized as less than meiocre. THAT appears to be the "fluke" season.

In fact, Becketts career stats are very similar to teh stats that Wang put up in 2006, where Mike said that Wang was the SECOND BEST PITCHER IN THE AL.

Contradicting yourself is no way to go through life.

[madmike1]

I am the weight I am right now. Not the average weight over the last 10 years.

I know you're 300 pounds but that doesn't have anything to do with baseball players.

[Thor99]

I know you're 300 pounds but that doesn't have anything to do with baseball players.

I don't know why I bother.

[GimmeShelter]

How did buchholz earn his ring? he didn't pitch a post season inning. and the fact that they have rings mean NOTHING about what kind of players they are individually. Lester is garbage just like I said last year when you were brown nosing him and ellsbusy is the same player as melky cabrera, not sizemore. your homerism is insanely funny.

Buchholz- Pitched a no hitter this season.

Melky= .158 post season hitter.

Ellsbury = .360 postseason hitter.

Lester= 1.93 ERA postseason.

Yankee prospects are always so much superior in your mind yet Boston prospects were not affected in the least by the post season stage.

Miguel Cabrera is a star but if Yank fans don't wanna trade Melky and Kennedy for him why on earth are they recommending Boston give up that boat load of talent?

[CrazyCarl40]

WOW he beat a dead team down 3-0 in the series with a mediocre start. What a stud.

LOL @ 22 innings being a lot. Tavarez had a bigger impact than Buchholz did this year.Who compares him to sizemore? soxprospects.com? LMAO. LOL @ me not backing up my opinions. It's YOU who is making moronic statements left and right with no factual backing. You haven't mentioned one stat to back up any of your BS in this entire thread. You have no idea what you are talking about other than that every player on your team must be awesome because they are on your team. You're a joke. If you had some FACTUAL BACKING you'd see that his stats compare MUCH BETTER to Melky's than to Sizemore.

It is Manny who i'm talking about that that HAS worked out for them.

Again, Melky won't be half the player Ellsbury will be. I do not say all of our players are awesome. I have on more than one occassion spoken negatively about: Coco Crisp, Julio Lugo, Eric Gagne, JD Drew and others from time to time.

And Buchholz' 22 innings were very vital for the Red Sox. As were his 3 victories.

If I gave the stats and facts that back my position, you'd either say small sample size or what was his OPS in little league on Sundays when it was below 65 degrees.

And it was Boston and Cleveland papers comparing the two, being Sizemore and Ellsbury. Not me.

And if you think Manny is fat you're out of your mind.

[Barton]

Again, Melky won't be half the player Ellsbury will be. I do not say all of our players are awesome. I have on more than one occassion spoken negatively about: Coco Crisp, Julio Lugo, Eric Gagne, JD Drew and others from time to time.

And Buchholz' 22 innings were very vital for the Red Sox. As were his 3 victories.

If I gave the stats and facts that back my position, you'd either say small sample size or what was his OPS in little league on Sundays when it was below 65 degrees.

And it was Boston and Cleveland papers comparing the two, being Sizemore and Ellsbury. Not me.

And if you think Manny is fat you're out of your mind.

Says who? Is that a fact?

Nobody in their right mind will ever say Ellsbury is the next Sizemore unless its an extremely poor homeless mans version of Sizemore. Ellsbury doesnt have the power of Sizemore. Not saying he wont be good, because he probably will, but calling him the next Sizemore (or better) is retahted. And yes, you yourself directly said that earlier in the thread.

Carl, you are the biggest homer in the baseball forum.

[Thor99]

Carl, you are the biggest homer in the baseball forum.

As long as madmike is here that's a statistical impossiblilty.

That said, Jacoby looks to be a very good player.

[madmike1]

Buchholz- Pitched a no hitter this season.

Melky= .158 post season hitter.

Ellsbury = .360 postseason hitter.

Lester= 1.93 ERA postseason.

Yankee prospects are always so much superior in your mind yet Boston prospects were not affected in the least by the post season stage.

Miguel Cabrera is a star but if Yank fans don't wanna trade Melky and Kennedy for him why on earth are they recommending Boston give up that boat load of talent?

I wouldn't give up Buchholz for him if I ran that team. So NO i'm not recommending they do it. Post season stats are small sample sizes and meaningless.

[madmike1]

As long as madmike is here that's a statistical impossiblilty.

That said, Jacoby looks to be a very good player.

I am the farthest thing from a homer on this friggin board. I bash the yankees and their moronic moves more than any other yankee fan here.

[GimmeShelter]

Says who? Is that a fact?

Nobody in their right mind will ever say Ellsbury is the next Sizemore unless its an extremely poor homeless mans version of Sizemore. Ellsbury doesnt have the power of Sizemore. Not saying he wont be good, because he probably will, but calling him the next Sizemore (or better) is retahted. And yes, you yourself directly said that earlier in the thread.

Carl, you are the biggest homer in the baseball forum.

Too early to tell. Sizemore only hit 27 Homers in the minors in 2000 AB's.....13 coming in one season. Sizemore's 150 + K's every year make him a liability in the leadoff spot. Ellsbury could make the same power jump.

Pro rate Ellsbury's numbers over a full season and he comes out with 15 HR's and 90 RBI's with 40 plus steals and 1/2 the K's

[CrazyCarl40]

Says who? Is that a fact?

Nobody in their right mind will ever say Ellsbury is the next Sizemore unless its an extremely poor homeless mans version of Sizemore. Ellsbury doesnt have the power of Sizemore. Not saying he wont be good, because he probably will, but calling him the next Sizemore (or better) is retahted. And yes, you yourself directly said that earlier in the thread.

Carl, you are the biggest homer in the baseball forum.

Yes, I said he is the next Sizemore, if he develops power. Which he very well may as he showed some good power in his short time with the big league team. I don't see why the comparison cannot be made here but saying Hughes is the next coming of Christ is fair game. Ellsbury is an excellent baserunner and will steal a lot of bases in his time. His defensive is sparkling, and in pretty much any position you put him in the outfield. He has great gap power and his ability to get the bat on the ball was featured many times throughout the postseason. He was rated as the Sox best prospect this season by baseball america and #33 overall.

If I made the comparison between Ellsbury and Sizemore, you could call me out on it. Fact is, I didn't make the comparison. I said he could be the next Sizemore. Of course, I think he'll hit better than .277 in 2008.

And yes, I do believe that when it's all said and done Jacoby Ellsbury will be the better of the two players between him and Melky. I'd give Melky the edge in arm strength and power. Other than that it is all Ellsbury.

I could care less if you call me a homer barton, which I am not, because you will always be a welcher and that is something that is far worse.

[madmike1]

Too early to tell. Sizemore only hit 27 Homers in the minors in 2000 AB's.....13 coming in one season. Sizemore's 150 + K's every year make him a liability in the leadoff spot. Ellsbury could make the same power jump.

Pro rate Ellsbury's numbers over a full season and he comes out with 15 HR's and 90 RBI's with 40 plus steals and 1/2 the K's

Try to prorate his full season numbers at AAA. Not so pretty.

[madmike1]

Yes, I said he is the next Sizemore, if he develops power. Which he very well may as he showed some good power in his short time with the big league team. I don't see why the comparison cannot be made here but saying Hughes is the next coming of Christ is fair game. Ellsbury is an excellent baserunner and will steal a lot of bases in his time. His defensive is sparkling, and in pretty much any position you put him in the outfield. He has great gap power and his ability to get the bat on the ball was featured many times throughout the postseason. He was rated as the Sox best prospect this season by baseball america and #33 overall.

If I made the comparison between Ellsbury and Sizemore, you could call me out on it. Fact is, I didn't make the comparison. I said he could be the next Sizemore. Of course, I think he'll hit better than .277 in 2008.

And yes, I do believe that when it's all said and done Jacoby Ellsbury will be the better of the two players between him and Melky. I'd give Melky the edge in arm strength and power. Other than that it is all Ellsbury.

I could care less if you call me a homer barton, which I am not, because you will always be a welcher and that is something that is far worse.

Barton is less of a homer than you are.

[GimmeShelter]

Try to prorate his full season numbers at AAA. Not so pretty.

.300 hitter with 60 SB's....I will take that.

[madmike1]

.300 hitter with 60 SB's....I will take that.

And a 740 OPS. So he's basically Melky Cabrera with more steals.

[GimmeShelter]

And a 740 OPS. So he's basically Melky Cabrera with more steals.

A lot more steals and a better average hitter.....he also did not go MIA in the post season.

He's the better prospect of the two and we both know it.

[CrazyCarl40]

A lot more steals and a better average hitter.....he also did not go MIA in the post season.

He's the better prospect of the two and we both know it.

And don't forget a much better fielder.

[Barton]

Yes, I said he is the next Sizemore, if he develops power. Which he very well may as he showed some good power in his short time with the big league team. I don't see why the comparison cannot be made here but saying Hughes is the next coming of Christ is fair game. Ellsbury is an excellent baserunner and will steal a lot of bases in his time. His defensive is sparkling, and in pretty much any position you put him in the outfield. He has great gap power and his ability to get the bat on the ball was featured many times throughout the postseason. He was rated as the Sox best prospect this season by baseball america and #33 overall.

If I made the comparison between Ellsbury and Sizemore, you could call me out on it. Fact is, I didn't make the comparison. I said he could be the next Sizemore. Of course, I think he'll hit better than .277 in 2008.

And yes, I do believe that when it's all said and done Jacoby Ellsbury will be the better of the two players between him and Melky. I'd give Melky the edge in arm strength and power. Other than that it is all Ellsbury.

I could care less if you call me a homer barton, which I am not, because you will always be a welcher and that is something that is far worse.

Here is your exact quote from page 1 of this thread, as if you dont remember it:

"He is the next Gady Sizemore, maybe even better."

So yes, I am calling you out on it LOL. Nowhere did you say "if" this or "if" that in terms of developing power.

And as for being a welcher, you LET ME STAY, so now you call ME the welcher lol? BTW, lets not bump up that thread where Pedroia slapped the glove in the ALCS this year like Arod in 2004 and you blindly defended him for it, which was just ridiculous.

You are by far the biggest homer here and everyone knows it.

[CrazyCarl40]

Here is your exact quote from page 1 of this thread, as if you dont remember it:

So yes, I am calling you out on it LOL. Nowhere did you say "if" this or "if" that in terms of developing power.

And as for being a welcher, you LET ME STAY, so now you call ME the welcher lol? BTW, lets not bump up that thread where Pedroia slapped the glove in the ALCS this year like Arod in 2004 and you blindly defended him for it, which was just ridiculous.

You are by far the biggest homer here and everyone knows it.

Yes, I said he is the next Sizemore. And I believe it. He could be. He has the necessary tools. When he was drafted the comparisons for him were Johnny Damon. Now some think he plays and looks like Grady Sizemore. But don't think I was the first to draw the comparison is all I am saying.

So defending your team makes you a homer? No wonder Giants stadium is empty on Sundays when the Jets play there.

I did let you stay, but I never invited you back. Pedroia didn't slap the glove, he was falling forward in a half slide half standing thing where he couldn't decide if he was going to slide or not. It wasn't on purpose is all I am saying.

[Barton]

Yes, I said he is the next Sizemore. And I believe it. He could be. He has the necessary tools. When he was drafted the comparisons for him were Johnny Damon. Now some think he plays and looks like Grady Sizemore. But don't think I was the first to draw the comparison is all I am saying.

So defending your team makes you a homer? No wonder Giants stadium is empty on Sundays when the Jets play there.

I did let you stay, but I never invited you back. Pedroia didn't slap the glove, he was falling forward in a half slide half standing thing where he couldn't decide if he was going to slide or not. It wasn't on purpose is all I am saying.

So you made the comparison, then claimed you didnt, and now you claim that you did. Alrighty then!

Saying he is the next Sizemore and then saying he could be the next Sizemore (if he develops such and such) are 2 much different things. There are more than a fair share of could be Grady Sizemores in baseball. You cant really teach 25 HR power, either you have it or you dont.

[haggis]

So you made the comparison, then claimed you didnt, and now you claim that you did. Alrighty then!

Saying he is the next Sizemore and then saying he could be the next Sizemore (if he develops such and such) are 2 much different things. There are more than a fair share of could be Grady Sizemores in baseball. You cant really teach 25 HR power, either you have it or you dont.

If anyone wants to search, you'll find that I first said it a couple of weeks before the post season. And I stand by it.

[CrazyCarl40]

So you made the comparison, then claimed you didnt, and now you claim that you did. Alrighty then!

Saying he is the next Sizemore and then saying he could be the next Sizemore (if he develops such and such) are 2 much different things. There are more than a fair share of could be Grady Sizemores in baseball. You cant really teach 25 HR power, either you have it or you dont.

What I mean is I didn't create the comparison. Someone else did. I made the comparison here, yes, but I didn't originate it.

I think he will be a very good player and make than his fair share of All-Star games and be someone that can single-handedly make impacts on whether a team wins or not. If that is something Sizemore does as well, then maybe it will have validity.

[madmike1]

What I mean is I didn't create the comparison. Someone else did. I made the comparison here, yes, but I didn't originate it.

I think he will be a very good player and make than his fair share of All-Star games and be someone that can single-handedly make impacts on whether a team wins or not. If that is something Sizemore does as well, then maybe it will have validity.

Your homerism is scary.

[madmike1]

A lot more steals and a better average hitter.....he also did not go MIA in the post season.

He's the better prospect of the two and we both know it.

Average is meaningless and steals really don't mean that much. Melky might have some power upside. Ellsbury has none.

[Scott Dierking]

. Melky might have some power upside.

Wait...Wait...Wait....

The guy that says you are what your numbers say you are in the major leagues and the minor leagues, says that Melky Cabrera, who has all of 27 homers in 1,400+ minor league at bats, and 15 homers in 1000+ major league at bats, all of a sudden has POWER UPSIDE?

Writers can't make this stuff up.

[madmike1]

Apparently my waste of life stalker doesn't understand that i can't see his moronic posts.

[Thor99]

Wait...Wait...Wait....

The guy that says you are what your numbers say you are in the major leagues and the minor leagues, says that Melky Cabrera, who has all of 27 homers in 1,400+ minor league at bats, and 15 homers in 1000+ major league at bats, all of a sudden has POWER UPSIDE?

Writers can't make this stuff up.

I'm quoting this since you are being ignored.

I love how madmike picks and chooses numbers to support whatever asinine argument he's promoting.

[Scott Dierking]

Apparently my waste of life stalker doesn't understand that i can't see his moronic posts.

You sure seem to keep responding to them though.

How would you know, if you can't see my posts, if I am talking to you or someone else?

Not so moronic afterall, am I. Actually, that did not take a detective.

And please, keep the posts to baseball in this forum, so we don't have to go on these tangents.

[madmike1]

I'm quoting this since you are being ignored.

I love how madmike picks and chooses numbers to support whatever asinine argument he's promoting.

I never said Melky has hit for power. He's just hit for MORE power than Ellsbury has. I'm not picking and choosing anything. And Thor how about making your own arguments without quoting my waste of life stalker.

[Thor99]

I never said Melky has hit for power. He's just hit for MORE power than Ellsbury has. I'm not picking and choosing anything. And Thor how about making your own arguments without quoting my waste of life stalker.

I did make my own argument. I showed you how you were completely wrong about Beckett, Pedroia and Lowell. Somehow, you still claimed to be right. It must be fun living in madmike world.

[GimmeShelter]

Average is meaningless and steals really don't mean that much. Melky might have some power upside. Ellsbury has none.

Cept in 2004 when Dave Roberts started the landslide that ended the Yanks season with of all things a meaningless SB.