New York Jets Mafia Game Thread

[CTM]

So, can you guys give me some feedback? If it includes calling me a mouthbreather, I can take it. I know I'm in the bottom as far as skill level goes at this game, and would love to get better.

At the time, it seemed to me that my fake reveal was a good move. But going back and reading through that section of the game, not so much. Even though JT had two votes on him, and I only had 1, I thought I was still a likely lynch. I thought I could get a counter claim, and at least get that player out in the open, and if he was a vig, rather than a Sk, that would help us. I also hoped it would lead to a mass reveal, which I also thought would help us.

I can't say I saw the no-lynch coming at all. But I thought that EY and/or Pac could vote to lynch me, which might take some pressure off of them.

Where did I go wrong, and what would have been the right/better move.

And thanks for modding BG, never got this far in a game, it was very exciting.

Great game all around guys, you guys are freakin' tough. Rotten lousy smart people!

imo... the vig reveal was the absolute best move you could of made.. Great idea actually.

UNTIL Vic outed the real SK, then it just confirmed you as mafia..

Right idea, you just should've read the thread first

[Doggin94it]

He didn't.

We did.

No, the night before the No Lynch, when only one person died - JT said he took a shot at CTM

[CTM]

I wish we had taken our time with that no lynch vote. We had plenty of it. I was really torn between the cops, and really starting to believe Vic's pleas. If Bleedin' had been so kind as to say, "sorry no lynch is ghey," I think we would've lynched Pac. It would just've been a matter of getting SMC to sign on with me, Vic, and CTM.

Yeah, I was so panicked that EY and Pac were going to be able to get Jets Thing lynched that I jumped at the chance for a 50/50 shot the no lynch was going to give us..

[SMC]

I was as sure that you were innocent as you should've been about me. A fake cop isn't going to pretend a scum partner is innocent that early. Too risky that they both get killed.

Too bad Pac didn't let the wifom go thru. Game deserved sudden death.

Yep, the game deserved sudden death.

Unfortunately, I wasn't sure about you. Especially when you got agitated at the end. It was also hard to ignore Vicious' early rants about not being mafia and then think he was innocent.

The thing is, an innocent reveal provides some bona fides. Pac used that with me and revealing I was Revis. Doggin's innocence would innoculate Vicious, but not exonerate him. Your death exonerated him. The thing is, you or Vicious could have used, "Hey, Doggin's innocent" as a defense as to why you were innocent. Pac and EY would have done the same with my reveal. It was cover.

[Norway'sWaddlingMarmaloof]

imo... the vig reveal was the absolute best move you could of made.. Great idea actually.

UNTIL Vic outed the real SK, then it just confirmed you as mafia..

Right idea, you just should've read the thread first

Next you rgonna tell me that I should consider my odds before I push all in with a queen high flush draw!

[Bleedin Green]

No, the night before the No Lynch, when only one person died - JT said he took a shot at CTM

That he did. I laughed when that PM came in. Lucky for you guys, CTM self protected.

[CTM]

Yep. Plus, EY could have argued that whether Vic or Pac was mafia, there must be a mafia finder role in the game (if Vic was mafia, it was the only way he could know JT was SK, if Pac is mafia, the only way he could know that CTM was Tanny, SMC was Revis, and you were Pace). So JT flipping SK wouldn't have completely exonerated Vic.

Yup. I didn't believe my own BS, was just trying to presell it

I thought Pac and EY would come back with "Vic must be the scum tracker like we had last game"

I thought for sure that was their play..

Also, if Vic was scum, given that Bleedin confirmed the cop could find the serial killer, it meant Pac had cleared everyone but Slats, Jet Things and Norway. Vic as scum would've known who his partners were and would've very easily deduced who HAD to be the SK..

[Doggin94it]

Hey, I didn't think you overlooked it. I'm pretty sure you considered it. It was just a tactical error, rather than a tactical oversight.

It's a matter of odds, IMO. I was channelling Doggin at the end relying strictly on the numbers with everything I did and why I proposed the "No Lynch" strategy.

I didn't trust the town to vote scum because voting for JT or Norway was off the table. We make the wrong vote and lynch a townie, you guys NK JT and win the game.

Actually, your numbers are slightly off, which is why lynching Vic was the right move there.

Day: alive - 8: Vic, JT, Pac, EY, SMC, Slats, CTM, Norway

Lynch Vic:

Night: 7 alive - 3 town, 1 symp, 2 scum, 1 SK

Day: 5 alive - 3 town, 2 scum (or 2 town, 2 scum, 1 SK)

If JT is dead, you've won the game. You lynch Pac the next day, EY kills you or Slats, and whoever's left lynches EY the next game.

If JT is alive and you or slats are dead, the path to victory gets tougher. With JT, EY, CTM and Slats/SMC left, EY has to kill JT (because if the serial stays alive and JT kills a townie or EY, EY loses, because only he and JT would be left). JT would target a townie or EY, and CTM would protect one of the two townies left alive. If JT targets EY, the town wins; if JT targets the protected player, the town wins; if JT targets the unprotected townie, EY wins.

Going no lynch meant that, unless JT was alive, you needed to be right the next day, without having seen the results of a Vic/Pac lynch to tell you which way to go. If EY and Pac had killed JT, then argued that Vic was a mafia finder, they win the game if they can convince 2 of you/slats/CTM to vote Vic - and all 4 townies needed to vote for one of them to win.

[ZachEY]

Hey, I didn't think you overlooked it. I'm pretty sure you considered it. It was just a tactical error, rather than a tactical oversight.

It's a matter of odds, IMO. I was channelling Doggin at the end relying strictly on the numbers with everything I did and why I proposed the "No Lynch" strategy.

I didn't trust the town to vote scum because voting for JT or Norway was off the table. We make the wrong vote and lynch a townie, you guys NK JT and win the game.

Problem was, if not for No Lynch, CTM was dead on again, and I was the right choice for the town.

Now, lets say we got the vic lynch, then JT shoots pac that night instead of norway or, he shoots Norway, and pac is lynched, leaving me as the obvious target next.

I'm telling you, I went through every single scenario imaginable, got the post-its to prove it. There wasn't a scenario I was confident I could win.

[CTM]

Actually, your numbers are slightly off, which is why lynching Vic was the right move there.

Day: alive - 8: Vic, JT, Pac, EY, SMC, Slats, CTM, Norway

Lynch Vic:

Night: 7 alive - 3 town, 1 symp, 2 scum, 1 SK

Day: 5 alive - 3 town, 2 scum (or 2 town, 2 scum, 1 SK)

If JT is dead, you've won the game. You lynch Pac the next day, EY kills you or Slats, and whoever's left lynches EY the next game.

If JT is alive and you or slats are dead, the path to victory gets tougher. With JT, EY, CTM and Slats/SMC left, EY has to kill JT (because if the serial stays alive and JT kills a townie or EY, EY loses, because only he and JT would be left). JT would target a townie or EY, and CTM would protect one of the two townies left alive. If JT targets EY, the town wins; if JT targets the protected player, the town wins; if JT targets the unprotected townie, EY wins.

Going no lynch meant that, unless JT was alive, you needed to be right the next day, without having seen the results of a Vic/Pac lynch to tell you which way to go. If EY and Pac had killed JT, then argued that Vic was a mafia finder, they win the game if they can convince 2 of you/slats/CTM to vote Vic - and all 4 townies needed to vote for one of them to win.

Which is the other reason I wanted to keep JT alive. If we couldn't lynch scum, he was our out..

In fact, I ran the numbers and had strongly considered pushing to get Vic lynched which would force JT's hand that night. Then I would hope I was able to block EY..

[CTM]

Problem was, if not for No Lynch, CTM was dead on again, and I was the right choice for the town.

Now, lets say we got the vic lynch, then JT shoots pac that night instead of norway or, he shoots Norway, and pac is lynched, leaving me as the obvious target next.

I'm telling you, I went through every single scenario imaginable, got the post-its to prove it. There wasn't a scenario I was confident I could win.

The nooise was tightened when Pac had to investigate you..

Also pac clearing a bunch of innocents helped tighten that noose as well

[Doggin94it]

Which is the other reason I wanted to keep JT alive. If we couldn't lynch scum, he was our out..

In fact, I ran the numbers and had strongly considered pushing to get Vic lynched which would force JT's hand that night. Then I would hope I was able to block EY..

Exactly. Its why I was screaming that we couldn't lynch the SK (and needed to lynch Vic) for days.

[ZachEY]

Going no lynch meant that, unless JT was alive, you needed to be right the next day, without having seen the results of a Vic/Pac lynch to tell you which way to go. If EY and Pac had killed JT, then argued that Vic was a mafia finder, they win the game if they can convince 2 of you/slats/CTM to vote Vic - and all 4 townies needed to vote for one of them to win.

When you say it that way, it seems so easy. However, combine that with the fact that CTM stated implicitly that if JT was dead, it exonorrated vic, and slats had moved towards pac at that point, it was nearly impossible in my mind to get one of those two, even knowing that I probably had SMC to start.

I thought about it, and believed it would be easier to lose SMC than it would be to gain CTM. I thought stats was no chance at that point, and vic obviously none.

[Doggin94it]

BTW, still need one for our crazy cops mafia to start

[SMC]

Problem was, if not for No Lynch, CTM was dead on again, and I was the right choice for the town.

Now, lets say we got the vic lynch, then JT shoots pac that night instead of norway or, he shoots Norway, and pac is lynched, leaving me as the obvious target next.

I'm telling you, I went through every single scenario imaginable, got the post-its to prove it. There wasn't a scenario I was confident I could win.

Hey, I hear you. There really was no scenario you could have been confident in. The odds were against you in all of them. This is just a discussion about what gave you better odds. I think you had less than 50% chance in all of them.

I thought the No Lynch provided the 50% chance to the town. Doggin mentions that it only works if we get the vote right the next day. We would have because of the JT/Norway duel AND the Vicious/Pac mutual investigation.

Either way, good game. It's just hard putting your fate in Jets Things' hands.

[ZachEY]

The nooise was tightened when Pac had to investigate you..

Also pac clearing a bunch of innocents helped tighten that noose as well

Yup.

Exactly why rather than trying to play the game under the table, I figured at that point my best chance was to bring out my guns.

[Vicious89x]

Exactly. Its why I was screaming that we couldn't lynch the SK (and needed to lynch Vic) for days.

We still won though... didn't we

[Doggin94it]

When you say it that way, it seems so easy. However, combine that with the fact that CTM stated implicitly that if JT was dead, it exonorrated vic, and slats had moved towards pac at that point, it was nearly impossible in my mind to get one of those two, even knowing that I probably had SMC to start.

I thought about it, and believed it would be easier to lose SMC than it would be to gain CTM. I thought stats was no chance at that point, and vic obviously none.

Yeah, your situation wasn't good. Can't believe nobody else picked up how scummy your play was on the day I was pushing the Vic lynch (telling the SK not to listen to me was the ultimate give away). But I still would have tried it rather than the reveal and deal.

[ZachEY]

Hey, I hear you. There really was no scenario you could have been confident in. The odds were against you in all of them. This is just a discussion about what gave you better odds. I think you had less than 50% chance in all of them.

I thought the No Lynch provided the 50% chance to the town. Doggin mentions that it only works if we get the vote right the next day. We would have because of the JT/Norway duel AND the Vicious/Pac mutual investigation.

Either way, good game. It's just hard putting your fate in Jets Things' hands.

Yes, but I also gave you guys a chance to play CTM vs Me.

PS. I'd have shot SMC in that scenario.

or would I?

[CTM]

Exactly. Its why I was screaming that we couldn't lynch the SK (and needed to lynch Vic) for days.

I didnt' want to lynch Vic because I was leaning legit on Vic that day, and we still had (what i thought) was 3 scum and 1 SK to find. With 2 NK's a night, we needed our cop to hit something..

WHen you think about it, Vic hitting on JT was what really won the game for the town. By then I think EY and Pac had figured out JT was the SK and could've easily pushed for his lynch..

[Doggin94it]

We still won though... didn't we

Yep. But just like poker - just because you won the hand doesn't mean that what you did to get there made much sense.

By leaving both of you alive, the town essentially went all-in on a 2-6 offsuit. The fact that the flop came up 3-4-5 doesn't change that it was the wrong play

[ZachEY]

Yeah, your situation wasn't good. Can't believe nobody else picked up how scummy your play was on the day I was pushing the Vic lynch (telling the SK not to listen to me was the ultimate give away). But I still would have tried it rather than the reveal and deal.

Honestly, the game was all but over when we lost a teammate night 1. Only 2 of us, with an additional NK out there, it just wasn't meant to be.

[Doggin94it]

Yes, but I also gave you guys a chance to play CTM vs Me.

PS. I'd have shot SMC in that scenario.

or would I?

[SMC]

Yes, but I also gave you guys a chance to play CTM vs Me.

PS. I'd have shot SMC in that scenario.

or would I?

Shooting me would have also been a good option. It gives Pac his bona fides.

[ZachEY]

I didnt' want to lynch Vic because I was leaning legit on Vic that day, and we still had (what i thought) was 3 scum and 1 SK to find. With 2 NK's a night, we needed our cop to hit something..

WHen you think about it, Vic hitting on JT was what really won the game for the town. By then I think EY and Pac had figured out JT was the SK and could've easily pushed for his lynch..

if only everyone would have followed you and I onto JT instead of woody.

[ZachEY]

Shooting me would have also been a good option. It gives Pac his bona fides.

I meant in the WIFOM battle.

If I had the choice between you, CTM, vic.

If you had taken my deal.

[CTM]

Yes, but I also gave you guys a chance to play CTM vs Me.

PS. I'd have shot SMC in that scenario.

or would I?

Lol, but CTM versus you would've been you shooting at a 3 innocents, meaning I had a 33% chance at best..

ftr, I wouldn't have done the modkill thing either, i was just sulking at that point. (For a good 20 minutes however I was prepared to blow the game up, I do admit)

[Doggin94it]

Honestly, the game was all but over when we lost a teammate night 1. Only 2 of us, with an additional NK out there, it just wasn't meant to be.

Heh - I know the feeling (see All in the Family, watching Irish go down in flames day 1). Its amazing what having only 2 other scummates makes you do (you're much more likely to try and protect a teammate on a 3 man mafia team than a 4 man team).

[CTM]

if only everyone would have followed you and I onto JT instead of woody.

It really wasn't my plan to lynch him, I just wanted to see if he'd claim something if we pressured him

[ZachEY]

Heh - I know the feeling (see All in the Family, watching Irish go down in flames day 1). Its amazing what having only 2 other scummates makes you do (you're much more likely to try and protect a teammate on a 3 man mafia team than a 4 man team).

I have a vague recollection of Irish going down day one.

[SMC]

I meant in the WIFOM battle.

If I had the choice between you, CTM, vic.

If you had taken my deal.

Yep, that too.

Chances are that CTM would either protect himself (because he's a selfish prick) or Vicious because he has a role. I was a roleless townie and would have been the shot.

[ZachEY]

It really wasn't my plan to lynch him, I just wanted to see if he'd claim something if we pressured him

I would have had pac stay off until he was L-1, then have him hammer, then apologize.

Wouldn't have mattered much at that point, we'd have gotten vic lynched FTW. Because a majority on Pac would have been impossible with Me, Pac, Norway still alive and 6 players.

[Bleedin Green]

I think my favorite part was watching everyone go in circles over all of the tricks they were sure I embedded into this game. Yet outside of the addition of the symp, it was a fairly basic game.

Funny thing is, the initial layout of the game I had planned was going to be ridiculously complex. It involved all sorts of different requirements / restrictions, there was going to be player re-signings, it was going to be absolutely insane. But after thinking it through some I decided to just cut it down and make it a simpler game setup. It was funny too, because I already had the PMs setup when I started making those changes and when I sent everything out there was still hints of some of the initial plans in there that I had a lot of people asking me questions about any additional roles or restrictions they might have.

[SMC]

Sorry about the Emmy loss, EY.

[CTM]

Yep. But just like poker - just because you won the hand doesn't mean that what you did to get there made much sense.

By leaving both of you alive, the town essentially went all-in on a 2-6 offsuit. The fact that the flop came up 3-4-5 doesn't change that it was the wrong play

Don't really agree with that. With a SK on the loose, if he had hit an innocent the next night it was going to come down to the wire just as it did..

Remember this was before Pac had committed to EY role/alignment, it's quite possible you would've been a easy lynch after Pac..