New York Jets Mafia Game Thread

[SMC]

Well, No Lynch, gave us the chance to make 'the deal', which I still contend was pretty awesome.

Had we lynched JT, we'd have won, but that was unlikely, had we lynched slats, we'd have been in good shape too, depending on what JT did.

No, it actually wasn't awesome (sorry). Check out my post above.

There was really only 1 scenario where the odds of you winning were in your favor and that was NK'ing Jets Thing.

Heck, if you had NK'd me, the odds would have still been better than lynching slats and praying that Jets Thing accepted your bogus deal.

[SMC]

Really, I thought the No Lynch was in our favor? I was the very likely lynch after swicthing to Woody at the last minute.

Yep, it was.

With JT & you being scum/SK and me & CTM being bona fide town, the choice for the last 2 scum were either:

Vicious & Pac

Vicious & Slats

EY & Pac

We were not going to get enough votes to cut either you or JT, so that meant that at least 1 scum would live through the day.

We had a 50/50 chance of guessing right on a vote of either Vicious, slats, EY, or Pac. We guess wrong and we likely lose the game.

With the No Lynch we gained a 100% chance of scum being NK'd because of the JT/you duel. So we were going into the next day with 1 guaranteed scum dead rather than the alternative of having cut 1 townie and the scum suspending another.

[Pac]

IMO, the Mafia blew the game by suspending slats. It was a calculated risk (probably EY's idea), but it wasn't worth it.

Why? The Numbers.

By the end the numbers didn't lie. These were the final 8:

1. CTM

2. EY

3. Vicious

4. SMC

5. Norway

6. Pac

7. slats

8. Jets Thing.

With CTM and me being bona fide townies, that left the final 6 with JT & Norway claiming Vig. 1 of them had to be scum. So we were left to Vic/Pac vs. Slats/Vicious vs. EY/Pac. In other words, either both Vic and Pac were scum, Slats & Vic were scum, or EY and Pac were scum.

Suspending slats exonerates Vicious which would lead to the only possibility of the 2 scum left being Pac and EY.

The smart move would have been to NK Jets Thing. If the mafia had done that, the 6 left would have been:

1. CTM

2. SMC

3. slats

4. Vicious

5. EY (scum)

6. Pac (scum)

Vicious would have claimed Pac scum and Pac should have claimed Vicious scum. Under this scenario, the votes would have come down to either voting Pac or Vicious. If EY could swing 4 votes against Vicious, then we would have gone into the night with:

1. CTM

2. SMC

3. slats

4. EY (scum)

5. Pac (scum)

The Scum then NKs either CTM, SMC or slats, with the scum having a 67% chance of hitting the right person. In that instance, the Scum wins.

So whoever came up with the "Kill Slats and lets make a deal with Jets Thing" made the wrong decision.

I proposed this scenario... I was going to do my best to beat Vic and felt like I might be able but it wouldn't have worked. When he dies and is shown to be innocent I get hyper lynched the next day... You guys had been screaming about "if pac is guilty so is EY" jazz so there's no way he's not lynched the next day regardless if he gets a clean kill in or not.

believe me I was trying to think of how to win outright since we incorrectly chose WP to lynch... it wasn't going to work.

[SMC]

I proposed this scenario... I was going to do my best to beat Vic and felt like I might be able but it wouldn't have worked. When he dies and is shown to be innocent I get hyper lynched the next day... You guys had been screaming about "if pac is guilty so is EY" jazz so there's no way he's not lynched the next day regardless if he gets a clean kill in or not.

believe me I was trying to think of how to win outright since we incorrectly chose WP to lynch... it wasn't going to work.

Dude, if Vicious gets lynched and comes up innocent there is no next day. The mafia wins the game with a successful NK.

Get it? Remember, the Mafia wins when the mafia number equals the number of non-mafia players.

1. CTM

2. SMC

3. Slats

4. Pac (scum)

5. EY (scum).

With a successful NK, the numbers would have been even (EY & Pac vs. CTM & SMC/slats) and neither you nor EY would have been lynched the next day because there would be no "next day."

Glad you missed that, though. .

[Pac]

Dude, if Vicious gets lynched and comes up innocent there is no next day. The mafia wins the game with a successful NK.

Get it? Remember, the Mafia wins when the mafia number equals the number of non-mafia players.

1. CTM

2. SMC

3. Slats

4. Pac (scum)

5. EY (scum).

With a successful NK, the numbers would have been even (EY & Pac vs. CTM & SMC/slats) and neither you nor EY would have been lynched the next day because there would be no "next day."

Glad you missed that, though. .

There was a reason we didn't do this I just can't think of it right now... It's exactly what I said and it was countered with something that made me think better of it.

[ZachEY]

Dude, if Vicious gets lynched and comes up innocent there is no next day. The mafia wins the game with a successful NK.

Get it? Remember, the Mafia wins when the mafia number equals the number of non-mafia players.

1. CTM

2. SMC

3. Slats

4. Pac (scum)

5. EY (scum).

With a successful NK, the numbers would have been even (EY & Pac vs. CTM & SMC/slats) and neither you nor EY would have been lynched the next day because there would be no "next day."

Glad you missed that, though. .

Except, CTM said it many times, and it was true... Had we killed JT, and he turned up SK, this would have vindicated Vic, who's post said 'does not bleed green, but appears to be working on his own'.

The tide was already turning against us at this point, it was not a battle I felt we could have won.

Once JT revealed, Vic would have been confirmed, and Pac or I would have been the next to go.

I would have done exactly that had I thought it was a battle I could have won. However, slats and vic were already embedded in that corner, and CTM was leaning that way as well (based on the JT to vic theory). So, we would have needed you (SMC) to join us, and then pull CTM as well. I'm confident in my abilities when it comes to that, but not stupid.

[Norway'sWaddlingMarmaloof]

Well, No Lynch, gave us the chance to make 'the deal', which I still contend was pretty awesome.

Had we lynched JT, we'd have won, but that was unlikely, had we lynched slats, we'd have been in good shape too, depending on what JT did.

That's what I mean. I was the likely lynch, which dosen't help. You and Pac being lynched is bad, obviously. I feel like I tried to shiftthe momentum back to a JT lynch, but that wasn't happening. In fact, it looked pretty likelythat it was gonna be one of me, you, or Pac.

So it really was best case scenario. None of us get lynched, JT has to use his NK on me, and I didn't matter if I died.

[CTM]

IMO, the Mafia blew the game by suspending slats. It was a calculated risk (probably EY's idea), but it wasn't worth it.

Why? The Numbers.

By the end the numbers didn't lie. These were the final 8:

1. CTM

2. EY

3. Vicious

4. SMC

5. Norway

6. Pac

7. slats

8. Jets Thing.

With CTM and me being bona fide townies, that left the final 6 with JT & Norway claiming Vig. 1 of them had to be scum. So we were left to Vic/Pac vs. Slats/Vicious vs. EY/Pac. In other words, either both Vic and Pac were scum, Slats & Vic were scum, or EY and Pac were scum.

Suspending slats exonerates Vicious which would lead to the only possibility of the 2 scum left being Pac and EY.

The smart move would have been to NK Jets Thing. If the mafia had done that, the 6 left would have been:

1. CTM

2. SMC

3. slats

4. Vicious

5. EY (scum)

6. Pac (scum)

Vicious would have claimed Pac scum and Pac should have claimed Vicious scum. Under this scenario, the votes would have come down to either voting Pac or Vicious. If EY could swing 4 votes against Vicious, then we would have gone into the night with:

1. CTM

2. SMC

3. slats

4. EY (scum)

5. Pac (scum)

The Scum then NKs either CTM, SMC or slats, with the scum having a 67% chance of hitting the right person. In that instance, the Scum wins.

So whoever came up with the "Kill Slats and lets make a deal with Jets Thing" made the wrong decision.

And why do you think I spent so much time trying to convince them not to kill JT??? I was dreading trying to out debate Pac and EY, been there, done that, and lost - against both of them in the past It was shaping up to be me and you versus them two, and EY or Pac are smart enough to try and provoke Vic into a self vote, meaning Slats was the key.. (i <3 u Vic, but it's what I would've done)

I think Slats putting is together while we were waiting for Bleedin is what won the game. Had the no lynch gone right through, EY/Pac may have been more confident that Slats would've voted for VIc considering he had been dieing to for 2 straight days and never really trusted me..

I imagine EY or Pac can cofirm, but I think once again, Slats was instrumental in the towns win..

One more thing on Vic - he definitely makes these games exciting, and for that we should all thank him..

[ZachEY]

And why do you think I spent so much time trying to convince them not to kill JT??? I was dreading trying to out debate Pac and EY, been there, done that, and lost - against both of them in the past It was shaping up to be me and you versus them two, and EY or Pac are smart enough to try and provoke Vic into a self vote, meaning Slats was the key.. (i <3 u Vic, but it's what I would've done)

I think Slats putting is together while we were waiting for Bleedin is what won the game. Had the no lynch gone right through, EY/Pac may have been more confident that Slats would've voted for VIc considering he had been dieing to for 2 straight days and never really trusted me..

I imagine EY or Pac can cofirm, but I think once again, Slats was instrumental in the towns win..

One more thing on Vic - he definitely makes these games exciting, and for that we should all thank him..

I knew you were trying to push the No Kill on JT, but I also knew you were right. I was very interested in that debate, but I didn't think it was a hand I could win. I also figured pac and I would expose ourselves as together in this debate. So, I folded and played my next hand. JT decided not to take the path that was best for him winning, so we went down too.

slats was intramental but he had no other choice but to take the position he did. He was either going down with vic, or he had to go after me and pac. Knowing you're innocent, and getting a confirmation on that from someone else puts you in a position of strength.

Frankly, I'm surprised we kept pac alive day 2. The 'scout' role, IMO, was so obviously scum b/c of the godfather angle. A role like that renders the godfather useless, and if I were on the side of the town, I'd have taken my chances and supported vic over pac immediately.

[Vicious89x]

And why do you think I spent so much time trying to convince them not to kill JT??? I was dreading trying to out debate Pac and EY, been there, done that, and lost - against both of them in the past It was shaping up to be me and you versus them two, and EY or Pac are smart enough to try and provoke Vic into a self vote, meaning Slats was the key.. (i <3 u Vic, but it's what I would've done)

I think Slats putting is together while we were waiting for Bleedin is what won the game. Had the no lynch gone right through, EY/Pac may have been more confident that Slats would've voted for VIc considering he had been dieing to for 2 straight days and never really trusted me..

I imagine EY or Pac can cofirm, but I think once again, Slats was instrumental in the towns win..

One more thing on Vic - he definitely makes these games exciting, and for that we should all thank him..

Thanks I appreciate that.

And FTR, I seriously wouldn't have cared as long as my team had won. I = all about the team win.

Also, I never, EVER trusted Pac throughout the entire game, but once the town turned and believed Pac over me I dropped my case on him. I figured that it'd make me seem more scummy and that it would sort itself out in some shape way or form.

As emotional I do play I'm not as dumb as I seem.

[CTM]

Except, CTM said it many times, and it was true... Had we killed JT, and he turned up SK, this would have vindicated Vic, who's post said 'does not bleed green, but appears to be working on his own'.

The tide was already turning against us at this point, it was not a battle I felt we could have won.

Once JT revealed, Vic would have been confirmed, and Pac or I would have been the next to go.

I would have done exactly that had I thought it was a battle I could have won. However, slats and vic were already embedded in that corner, and CTM was leaning that way as well (based on the JT to vic theory). So, we would have needed you (SMC) to join us, and then pull CTM as well. I'm confident in my abilities when it comes to that, but not stupid.

Hay go figure!

Good game..

[CTM]

Thanks I appreciate that.

And FTR, I seriously wouldn't have cared as long as my team had won. I = all about the team win.

Also, I never, EVER trusted Pac throughout the entire game, but once the town turned and believed Pac over me I dropped my case on him. I figured that it'd make me seem more scummy and that it would sort itself out in some shape way or form.

As emotional I do play I'm not as dumb as I seem.

Ftr, I didn't say dumb. Emotional isn't dumb. I don't think your dumb, just a little too much estrogen

[Vicious89x]

Ftr, I didn't say dumb. Emotional isn't dumb. I don't think your dumb, just a little too much estrogen

Multiple vulvas do that. Taking pills for it helps though.

[ZachEY]

Hay go figure!

Good game..

There really would have been no reason NOT to kill me the next day, except my rugged good looks.

The original Three Ninja's movie taught me one thing, and that's not that 'Rocky Loves Emily', but that you should 'Only fight when you know you can win'.

[Pac]

everyones an expert in hindsight.

"oh yeah I knew it all along"

"I never trusted him"

"he would have been dead had I been on the other team"

yeah yeah yeah....

[CTM]

I knew you were trying to push the No Kill on JT, but I also knew you were right. I was very interested in that debate, but I didn't think it was a hand I could win. I also figured pac and I would expose ourselves as together in this debate. So, I folded and played my next hand. JT decided not to take the path that was best for him winning, so we went down too.

slats was intramental but he had no other choice but to take the position he did. He was either going down with vic, or he had to go after me and pac. Knowing you're innocent, and getting a confirmation on that from someone else puts you in a position of strength

I was more worried that people were so suspicious of VIc that you guys could sway 1 voter. That's all you needed. Kill JT, sell out on Vic, and win the NK chess match

Frankly, I'm surprised we kept pac alive day 2. The 'scout' role, IMO, was so obviously scum b/c of the godfather angle. A role like that renders the godfather useless, and if I were on the side of the town, I'd have taken my chances and supported vic over pac immediately.

The thing is though, with a SK and a bunch of claimed roleless townies, a mafia power role didn't make sense. Also, first immpressions die hard. When Pac said he was in the FO, and vic was a player, knowing that I was in the FO made Pac seem more legit..

It wasn't till after he said he received the name tannenbaum that I started to question him.. Had he stuck with rolefinder, I don't think I personally every would've put it together..

Anyway I can see your guys angle... Good play you and your team did a great job...

[CTM]

everyones an expert in hindsight.

"oh yeah I knew it all along"

"I never trusted him"

"he would have been dead had I been on the other team"

yeah yeah yeah....

If I was an expert at anything I wouldn't have thought doggin and slats were scum

[Norway'sWaddlingMarmaloof]

So, can you guys give me some feedback? If it includes calling me a mouthbreather, I can take it. I know I'm in the bottom as far as skill level goes at this game, and would love to get better.

At the time, it seemed to me that my fake reveal was a good move. But going back and reading through that section of the game, not so much. Even though JT had two votes on him, and I only had 1, I thought I was still a likely lynch. I thought I could get a counter claim, and at least get that player out in the open, and if he was a vig, rather than a Sk, that would help us. I also hoped it would lead to a mass reveal, which I also thought would help us.

I can't say I saw the no-lynch coming at all. But I thought that EY and/or Pac could vote to lynch me, which might take some pressure off of them.

Where did I go wrong, and what would have been the right/better move.

And thanks for modding BG, never got this far in a game, it was very exciting.

Great game all around guys, you guys are freakin' tough. Rotten lousy smart people!

[Doggin94it]

Frankly, I'm surprised we kept pac alive day 2. The 'scout' role, IMO, was so obviously scum b/c of the godfather angle. A role like that renders the godfather useless, and if I were on the side of the town, I'd have taken my chances and supported vic over pac immediately.

Not really - a good mod would just give the "scout" a wrong "reveal" the same way he would give the finder a false result - i.e. "EY is Calvin Pace" (oops, he's the godfather, sorry)

[slats]

And why do you think I spent so much time trying to convince them not to kill JT??? I was dreading trying to out debate Pac and EY, been there, done that, and lost - against both of them in the past It was shaping up to be me and you versus them two, and EY or Pac are smart enough to try and provoke Vic into a self vote, meaning Slats was the key.. (i <3 u Vic, but it's what I would've done)

I think Slats putting is together while we were waiting for Bleedin is what won the game. Had the no lynch gone right through, EY/Pac may have been more confident that Slats would've voted for VIc considering he had been dieing to for 2 straight days and never really trusted me..

I imagine EY or Pac can cofirm, but I think once again, Slats was instrumental in the towns win..

One more thing on Vic - he definitely makes these games exciting, and for that we should all thank him..

I wish we had taken our time with that no lynch vote. We had plenty of it. I was really torn between the cops, and really starting to believe Vic's pleas. If Bleedin' had been so kind as to say, "sorry no lynch is ghey," I think we would've lynched Pac. It would just've been a matter of getting SMC to sign on with me, Vic, and CTM.

Thanks I appreciate that.

And FTR, I seriously wouldn't have cared as long as my team had won. I = all about the team win.

Also, I never, EVER trusted Pac throughout the entire game, but once the town turned and believed Pac over me I dropped my case on him. I figured that it'd make me seem more scummy and that it would sort itself out in some shape way or form.

As emotional I do play I'm not as dumb as I seem.

You know what? If you went after him and got yourself lynched, you would've helped the town win. Doggin was trying to tell you that. You had done your job as the cop. Once you turned up sane cop, Pac would've been lynched the next day. But I really understand the desire to keep yourself in the game. And you are definitely fun to have around.

In my mind, the fact that you weren't all over Pac claiming your role made you seem scummier. That, and the fact that BG gave you that lame "bleeds green" crap.

[SMC]

No question, EY & Pac, you guys played a good game.

I understand your angle, but just pointing out it was a tacticle error.

Jets Thing coming up SK would not have exonerated Vicious because the mafia & SK are on opposite sides. Heck, CTM argued that Vicious was mafia for wanting to off Jets Thing after Jets Thing role revealed. I would think EY & Pac would jump all over that. In essence, use CTM's words against Vicious to lead the lynch.

Incidently, I was leaning toward Slats/Vicious being the scum team rather than EY & Pac. Thus, I could have been that extra vote. I know I've been duped before in mafia, so it could happen again.

It's just a personal strategy of "live to play another day." By prolonging the questions (with EY & Pac not revealing) that provided enough cover to reach night phase.

I didn't think there was any chance of Jets Thing taking the offer. That's why I told Vicious to stay out of it because I didn't want him to screw it up. The odds were so small in JT winning with EY's offer.

JT's best chance was WIFOM on the final Night Phase with CTM.

[Doggin94it]

So, can you guys give me some feedback? If it includes calling me a mouthbreather, I can take it. I know I'm in the bottom as far as skill level goes at this game, and would love to get better.

At the time, it seemed to me that my fake reveal was a good move. But going back and reading through that section of the game, not so much. Even though JT had two votes on him, and I only had 1, I thought I was still a likely lynch. I thought I could get a counter claim, and at least get that player out in the open, and if he was a vig, rather than a Sk, that would help us. I also hoped it would lead to a mass reveal, which I also thought would help us.

I can't say I saw the no-lynch coming at all. But I thought that EY and/or Pac could vote to lynch me, which might take some pressure off of them.

Where did I go wrong, and what would have been the right/better move.

The fake reveal was the worst thing you could have done. Aside from your too-obvious symp signaling, that was your only bad play all game. Basically, once you did that, you guaranteed a scum-voter would die either that day or that night, which extended the game for the town. The best thing to do would have been to stay quiet, so that JT still had to guess blind.

Other than that, you played a great game as a symp.

[ZachEY]

I can't say I saw the no-lynch coming at all. But I thought that EY and/or Pac could vote to lynch me, which might take some pressure off of them.

Was better for us to hang you out to dry at night.

So JT couldn't hit us.

[ZachEY]

Not really - a good mod would just give the "scout" a wrong "reveal" the same way he would give the finder a false result - i.e. "EY is Calvin Pace" (oops, he's the godfather, sorry)

Yes, the could.

But, it's more believable to say, 'innoncent/guilty' or in this case 'bleeds green/does not bleed green', than getting a wholly different name.

[Doggin94it]

No question, EY & Pac, you guys played a good game.

I understand your angle, but just pointing out it was a tacticle error.

Jets Thing coming up SK would not have exonerated Vicious because the mafia & SK are on opposite sides. Heck, CTM argued that Vicious was mafia for wanting to off Jets Thing after Jets Thing role revealed. I would think EY & Pac would jump all over that. In essence, use CTM's words against Vicious to lead the lynch.

Yep. Plus, EY could have argued that whether Vic or Pac was mafia, there must be a mafia finder role in the game (if Vic was mafia, it was the only way he could know JT was SK, if Pac is mafia, the only way he could know that CTM was Tanny, SMC was Revis, and you were Pace). So JT flipping SK wouldn't have completely exonerated Vic.

[Doggin94it]

I want to know why the hell JT shot at CTM that night. I made it very clear that killing anyone that night was the wrong play.

[SMC]

I wish we had taken our time with that no lynch vote. We had plenty of it. I was really torn between the cops, and really starting to believe Vic's pleas. If Bleedin' had been so kind as to say, "sorry no lynch is ghey," I think we would've lynched Pac. It would just've been a matter of getting SMC to sign on with me, Vic, and CTM.

No Monday morning QBing, slats. The No Lynch won us the game. Be happy.

Pac wasn't getting voted off. With 8 players, 3 of them scum (Norway, EY, Pac), that meant all the townies and the SK had to vote for Pac. That wasn't happening. ESPECIALLY, with Vicious outing Jets Thing.

If you think about it, you could have gotten no more than 3 votes on Pac (Vicious, CTM, slats). JT wasn't voting Pac. I wasn't going to vote Pac either. Why? If Pac came up scum, then there was a 50/50 chance I was scum. With Vicious defying all logic and still thinking I was scum near end game, chances are Vicious would have been inclined to vote for me.

[ZachEY]

No question, EY & Pac, you guys played a good game.

I understand your angle, but just pointing out it was a tacticle error.

Jets Thing coming up SK would not have exonerated Vicious because the mafia & SK are on opposite sides. Heck, CTM argued that Vicious was mafia for wanting to off Jets Thing after Jets Thing role revealed. I would think EY & Pac would jump all over that. In essence, use CTM's words against Vicious to lead the lynch.

Incidently, I was leaning toward Slats/Vicious being the scum team rather than EY & Pac. Thus, I could have been that extra vote. I know I've been duped before in mafia, so it could happen again.

It's just a personal strategy of "live to play another day." By prolonging the questions (with EY & Pac not revealing) that provided enough cover to reach night phase.

I didn't think there was any chance of Jets Thing taking the offer. That's why I told Vicious to stay out of it because I didn't want him to screw it up. The odds were so small in JT winning with EY's offer.

JT's best chance was WIFOM on the final Night Phase with CTM.

There was never a thought that vic was pac's role. Just that pac was lying. That was popular belief. So, when vic found the SK, it would prove that he was telling the truth. I could have tried to point him towards rolefinder, but once JT died, it would have been difficult.

Trust me, it wasn't an oversight, as it was the obvious first choice solution. I simply thought we had no chance of winning it.

JT had to win two WIFOMs in the strategy he took, one of which he wasn't involved in. He lost that one.

[Bleedin Green]

Not really - a good mod would just give the "scout" a wrong "reveal" the same way he would give the finder a false result - i.e. "EY is Calvin Pace" (oops, he's the godfather, sorry)

Indeed. In your TV Land game there was a godfather and JiF was a role finder (a power I eventually stole. ) I always wondered actually, had I remembered to specify to get the role of JT, what would you have told me? As strange as it is, you just giving me his alignment and me thinking he was townie (at least that first day) probably won me the game.

[ZachEY]

I want to know why the hell JT shot at CTM that night. I made it very clear that killing anyone that night was the wrong play.

He didn't.

We did.

[Bleedin Green]

I wish we had taken our time with that no lynch vote. We had plenty of it. I was really torn between the cops, and really starting to believe Vic's pleas. If Bleedin' had been so kind as to say, "sorry no lynch is ghey," I think we would've lynched Pac. It would just've been a matter of getting SMC to sign on with me, Vic, and CTM.

You know what? If you went after him and got yourself lynched, you would've helped the town win. Doggin was trying to tell you that. You had done your job as the cop. Once you turned up sane cop, Pac would've been lynched the next day. But I really understand the desire to keep yourself in the game. And you are definitely fun to have around.

In my mind, the fact that you weren't all over Pac claiming your role made you seem scummier. That, and the fact that BG gave you that lame "bleeds green" crap.

#1. Up yours.

#2. Not my fault he actually went through the process of explaining to you what I sent him. He just as easily could've said "innocent" and "guilty". Its not like it wasn't clear.

[slats]

I wasn't going to vote Pac either. Why? If Pac came up scum, then there was a 50/50 chance I was scum.

I was as sure that you were innocent as you should've been about me. A fake cop isn't going to pretend a scum partner is innocent that early. Too risky that they both get killed.

Too bad Pac didn't let the wifom go thru. Game deserved sudden death.

[SMC]

There was never a thought that vic was pac's role. Just that pac was lying. That was popular belief. So, when vic found the SK, it would prove that he was telling the truth. I could have tried to point him towards rolefinder, but once JT died, it would have been difficult.

Trust me, it wasn't an oversight, as it was the obvious first choice solution. I simply thought we had no chance of winning it.

JT had to win two WIFOMs in the strategy he took, one of which he wasn't involved in. He lost that one.

Hey, I didn't think you overlooked it. I'm pretty sure you considered it. It was just a tactical error, rather than a tactical oversight.

It's a matter of odds, IMO. I was channelling Doggin at the end relying strictly on the numbers with everything I did and why I proposed the "No Lynch" strategy.

I didn't trust the town to vote scum because voting for JT or Norway was off the table. We make the wrong vote and lynch a townie, you guys NK JT and win the game.

[Norway'sWaddlingMarmaloof]

The fake reveal was the worst thing you could have done. Aside from your too-obvious symp signaling, that was your only bad play all game. Basically, once you did that, you guaranteed a scum-voter would die either that day or that night, which extended the game for the town. The best thing to do would have been to stay quiet, so that JT still had to guess blind.

Other than that, you played a great game as a symp.

Ahh, I see. Thanks Doggin. I may have screwed up the beginning and the end for my team, but at least I nailed the middle!

[Doggin94it]

Indeed. In your TV Land game there was a godfather and JiF was a role finder (a power I eventually stole. ) I always wondered actually, had I remembered to specify to get the role of JT, what would you have told me? As strange as it is, you just giving me his alignment and me thinking he was townie (at least that first day) probably won me the game.

I would have made up a townie character name for him and let him know what it was.

Then he told me about his plan to reveal as Peter petrelli - and I would have used that instead of coming up with one on my own.