Star Wars Mafia

[Vicious89x]

It is true that Watcher/Tracker are listed as pro-town roles.

Link

That said, they can be associated with 3rd party or scum.

The pressing question is, why outing CTM is beneficial to the town? Do you believe he's scum?

I was considering 3rd party as well.

I'm not even going to begin speculating as to why outing CTM is a good thing. JVoR did it last game and he was 3rd party as well.

If we're talking about in the premise of the movies, can anyone think of a good character?

[CTM]

Wow, you guys are obsessed with outing town power roles.

This is a given in any game - obviously both sides are trying to find each other.

Would you say that a killing role is definitely a mafia role? But when a vig reveals and let's the town help chose the target, that benefits the town, no?

This is what I was talking about with Slats, and playing one-dimensionally. You have to look at situations where the information I provide could be useful.

Say we come close to an endgame situation and there are only a couple of mafia suspects left. I watch one. If they target and someone dies, we've got them. If they don't target and someone dies, we've got the other one. If they don't nightkill at all, we have another day to try and lynch them.

You see? Any role can be beneficial to any player of any alignment.

No crap, but as I said, it's also benefitual as a scum ability, if you're scum, anyone targetting anyone else is a threatening role to you. It's my position that your role is far more advantageous to scum, except in a potential end game scenario.

Another point, if I'm scum, why aren't you voting me.

[Integrity28]

^^^ The quote above from Crusher must've been an accidental click of multi-quote... it has no relevancy on my response to SMC. Sorry.

[Integrity28]

I was considering 3rd party as well.

I'm not even going to begin speculating as to why outing CTM is a good thing. JVoR did it last game and he was 3rd party as well.

If we're talking about in the premise of the movies, can anyone think of a good character?

Jabba the Hut.

Jabba hired Boba to catch Solo.

Jabba was not part of the Evil Empire.

[Integrity28]

A tracker could also be working with the Vigilante... like Chewie being the tracker, and Han Solo being the Vig.

Again, those 2 were part of the rebellion, but reluctantly... they were more rogue characters than anything.

[SMC]

^^^ The quote above from Crusher must've been an accidental click of multi-quote... it has no relevancy on my response to SMC. Sorry.

Bastard!!!

Anyway, if CTM is scum, what was he doing last night? Did he NK slats?

If such, was CTM's discussion this morning about slats taking his own life to protect someone else a ruse to muddy the discussion of slats being NK'd by the Imperialists?

CTM, what were you doing last night?

[The Crusher]

They've been anti-town roles in all the games we've played at this site, I believe.

I dont think so. Im pretty sure I was a town friendly tracker in CTM's game? not sure. But I think so. Was it the reverse mafia game. Not sure.

[Vicious89x]

Jabba the Hut.

Jabba hired Boba to catch Solo.

Jabba was not part of the Evil Empire.

But why could Jabba watch and see things? I guess you could say he was an underworld lord and could know what was going on?

[Vicious89x]

A tracker could also be working with the Vigilante... like Chewie being the tracker, and Han Solo being the Vig.

Again, those 2 were part of the rebellion, but reluctantly... they were more rogue characters than anything.

Interesting, REALLY interesting.

[CTM]

Bastard!!!

Anyway, if CTM is scum, what was he doing last night? Did he NK slats?

If such, was CTM's discussion this morning about slats taking his own life to protect someone else a ruse to muddy the discussion of slats being NK'd by the Imperialists?

CTM, what were you doing last night?

i'm not saying anything unless i'm forced to..

and i recommned not pushing the issue, but don't have much more then just "trust me" backing it up

[SMC]

Jabba the Hut.

Jabba hired Boba to catch Solo.

Jabba was not part of the Evil Empire.

In a vacum that makes sense.

But in this game it doesn't for this reason.

In games past we've had situations where 2 people who didn't know each other had to find each other and when they did they could work together.

If CTM was Jabba, he wouldn't need to find Boba because Boba was already dead before the night action was put in (normal game phase mechanics).

Your Chewie & Han guess is interesting. But whom was DPR looking for if he was looking for someone?

[The Crusher]

Obviously I'm not faking this, or CTM would have denied it.

The idea that CTM would sit on the fence with it to eliminate himself from a power role hunter is not valid - he would have known I was scum, and being as close to lynch as I am, announced that he did not target anyone and that I was lying.

It's not like it's going to take much to finish me off.

The fact that he did not even wait to see if a finder announced anything, and just threw down a vote on me made me think that he was trying to hurry a lynch, and it made me think that he killed Slats. He was wishy-washy yesterday, kinda complimenting me but kinda suspecting me, and Slats was less than complimentary toward him. So I figured he stood a really high chance of being scum.

I knew he wasn't the finder. If he voted for me that fast, he would more than likely have checked me and just announced it.

I seriously doubt he's the healer because he stuck his neck out awfully far yesterday to be a power role like that.

I put it all together and figured he's probably scum.

I'm making an effort to be as clear as I can - your board flavor is very different than my home turf. Crush can back that up.

Sorry dude never really noticed any ****ing difference between JN and DM. Except they don't like spamming, personal attacks, cussing, and these are the paramounts of JN mafia. Other than that identical.

[Sharrow]

Bastard!!!

Anyway, if CTM is scum, what was he doing last night? Did he NK slats?

If such, was CTM's discussion this morning about slats taking his own life to protect someone else a ruse to muddy the discussion of slats being NK'd by the Imperialists?

CTM, what were you doing last night?

this is a bad idea

[Vicious89x]

In a vacum that makes sense.

But in this game it doesn't for this reason.

In games past we've had situations where 2 people who didn't know each other had to find each other and when they did they could work together.

If CTM was Jabba, he wouldn't need to find Boba because Boba was already dead before the night action was put in (normal game phase mechanics).

Your Chewie & Han guess is interesting. But whom was DPR looking for if he was looking for someone?

Perhaps he was looking for Luke or Ben, to become part of the rebellion. Maybe he'd be a miller of sorts until he "joined" the rebellion.

Because in the movies, Han was just a solo guy with Chewie. He didnt' really join the rebellion until Ben and Luke paid him to take them off of Tattooine, hell he wasn't ever really part of the Rebellion until "Return of the Jedi".

[Klecko73isGod]

Perhaps he was looking for Luke or Ben, to become part of the rebellion. Maybe he'd be a miller of sorts until he "joined" the rebellion.

Because in the movies, Han was just a solo guy with Chewie. He didnt' really join the rebellion until Ben and Luke paid him to take them off of Tattooine, hell he wasn't ever really part of the Rebellion until "Return of the Jedi".

That's when he became General Solo.

[Sharrow]

It looks to me like he's saying his role isn't very effective for the town unless there are two outed town power roles to work together. I don't buy it, at all. Why would BG add something that weak to the game. If the SK was still alive, how long would that team last out in the open? They'd be lucky to last a night.

On the other hand, it is 100% effective for scum without the help of any other role. Like he said earlier in the game, Occam's Razor...

[SMC]

this is a bad idea

Dwelving into what CTM was doing?

I agree.

But you & CTM decided to unvote DPR so this is the logical progression of discussion.

[Sharrow]

Dwelving into what CTM was doing?

I agree.

But you & CTM decided to unvote DPR so this is the logical progression of discussion.

fair enough

[CTM]

Dwelving into what CTM was doing?

I agree.

But you & CTM decided to unvote DPR so this is the logical progression of discussion.

I unvoted to avoid the speed lynch, he hadn't even commented yet when i did it.

meathead

[SMC]

Perhaps he was looking for Luke or Ben, to become part of the rebellion. Maybe he'd be a miller of sorts until he "joined" the rebellion.

Because in the movies, Han was just a solo guy with Chewie. He didnt' really join the rebellion until Ben and Luke paid him to take them off of Tattooine, hell he wasn't ever really part of the Rebellion until "Return of the Jedi".

True, but I would think that we are in a setup where every good guy is part of the rebellion.

In other words, I don't see Han & Chewie as 3rd parties.

That's clear from the Ewok reference in the OP. The Ewok's didn't join the Rebellion until the last half hour of ROTJ, but they're already good guys in this game.

[CTM]

It looks to me like he's saying his role isn't very effective for the town unless there are two outed town power roles to work together. I don't buy it, at all. Why would BG add something that weak to the game. If the SK was still alive, how long would that team last out in the open? They'd be lucky to last a night.

On the other hand, it is 100% effective for scum without the help of any other role. Like he said earlier in the game, Occam's Razor...

Don't know your alignment, but you've got this situation clocked..

[HessStation]

what does DPR mean by "targeting"? I need clarification.

[Vicious89x]

True, but I would think that we are in a setup where every good guy is part of the rebellion.

In other words, I don't see Han & Chewie as 3rd parties.

That's clear from the Ewok reference in the OP. The Ewok's didn't join the Rebellion until the last half hour of ROTJ, but they're already good guys in this game.

Ah good point. Sometimes my fanboy mind runs a little too wild.

[SMC]

I unvoted to avoid the speed lynch, he hadn't even commented yet when i did it.

meathead

He needed to say more? He's been commenting all game.

Now that his playmate is gone his posting numbers went south (even before he announced he'd be busy today).

[AVM]

True, but I would think that we are in a setup where every good guy is part of the rebellion.

In other words, I don't see Han & Chewie as 3rd parties.

That's clear from the Ewok reference in the OP. The Ewok's didn't join the Rebellion until the last half hour of ROTJ, but they're already good guys in this game.

Agreed, 100%. I cant see Han being 3rd party in a Star Wars game.

what does DPR mean by "targeting"? I need clarification.

As in the SK targets someone to kill, Cop targets someone to investigate, Doc to protect, scum to kill, etc.

[CTM]

He needed to say more? He's been commenting all game.

Now that his playmate is gone his posting numbers went south (even before he announced he'd be busy today).

what is he was the doctor, or something?

[HessStation]

As in the SK targets someone to kill, Cop targets someone to investigate, Doc to protect, scum to kill, etc.

Right, ok, so SK is dead. Is DPR trying to say he's the cop? And if so than would that being saying there is only one role left who would be "targeting" anyone?...other than scum?

[Vicious89x]

Right, ok, so SK is dead. Is DPR trying to say he's the cop? And if so than would that being saying there is only one role left who would be "targeting" anyone?...other than scum?

No... the cop would see alignment. He can't from my understanding.

[SMC]

what is he was the doctor, or something?

Why would the doctor also be a tracker/watcher?

Are you inventing roles again like you did in the Thing game? Or you're borrowing Pac's rules of role invention?

There is not practical way in game mechancis a doctor could work as a tracker/watcher.

[SMC]

Edit to add above ^^^ You meant this morning's reveal after he was at L-2.

But didn't he hint at this role yesterday?

[CTM]

Edit to add above ^^^ You meant this morning's reveal after he was at L-2.

But didn't he hint at this role yesterday?

he said there mayb be a scum watcher in the game, i hardly expect he was breadcrumbing an evil role..

btw..

this moring he tried to pretend it was only a pro town role, and yesterday (or day before) when sword fighting doggin, he said maybe scum have a watcher/tracker and hence bad idea to suggest doc protects..

oops

vote DPR

[AVM]

Right, ok, so SK is dead. Is DPR trying to say he's the cop? And if so than would that being saying there is only one role left who would be "targeting" anyone?...other than scum?

No, DPR is claiming a Watcher/Tracker combo. He targeted CTM (watched/tracked...whatever you prefer) -- who in turn targeted someone else. CTM has requested we don't press him too much, and I think, for now, that's the best move. I agree I wouldn't have stated who I targeted here, as town. Just because you target someone and then die and flip town, doesn't make that individual (CTM in this case) scum. Just my two cents.

Big problem right now is that aside from him, I dont know where to go. Naturally, I'm going to suggest the low post count players. It's what I do.

I don't see how we can NOT go DPR though. His role won't be particularly useful to the town, IF he is being honest. If not, we get one more bad guy. My question to you guys -- is there anyone we gain more info from his lynch than DPR (even assuming innocence)?

[Integrity28]

True, but I would think that we are in a setup where every good guy is part of the rebellion.

In other words, I don't see Han & Chewie as 3rd parties.

That's clear from the Ewok reference in the OP. The Ewok's didn't join the Rebellion until the last half hour of ROTJ, but they're already good guys in this game.

Ewok's were never on Tattooine either... I'm going to go out on a limb and say we shouldn't be looking for the game to map "exactly" to what happened in the movies.

Han & Chewie as a working tandem for the town makes sense... like Chewie tracks, and Han kills as vig. No need to unpack that any more, as we'd only be helping the scum by over-hypothesizing and giving them angles to exploit.

I think what makes the most sense to me at this point is to divert away from all the DPR attention and form a competing train. We can delve deeper into this CTM and DPR thing, but in the meantime... there are a lot more stones to be overturned.

[Vicious89x]

Ewok's were never on Tattooine either... I'm going to go out on a limb and say we shouldn't be looking for the game to map "exactly" to what happened in the movies.

Han & Chewie as a working tandem for the town makes sense... like Chewie tracks, and Han kills as vig. No need to unpack that any more, as we'd only be helping the scum by over-hypothesizing and giving them angles to exploit.

I think what makes the most sense to me at this point is to divert away from all the DPR attention and form a competing train. We can delve deeper into this CTM and DPR thing, but in the meantime... there are a lot more stones to be overturned.

Well where would you go next? I like your idea of Han & Chewie, and at least from my standpoint works both of them into the storyline in a realistic fashion. I just don't know what other better targets there are.

[CTM]

First, there is this form MafiaScum.net:

Tracker

The Tracker is an informative role that can target a player at night and learn who, if anybody, that player targeted the same night (but not the action the player performed).

The Tracker can be contrasted with the Watcher, who learns who targetted a player, not whom that player targetted.

In which case, if the mafia have a Tracker on their team, inviting the healer to cover I28 is the perfect setup to learn who the healer is. No points for guessing who gets nightkilled on N2 and then we are out a healer.

bump