NFL's Los Angeles Arms Race (Rams, Chargers, Raiders)

[Jet9]

Not a big deal having thousands of pounds of water falling on 75,000 people.

You're making excuses for not fixing a 20 year old building.

[patman]

Wrong my axx

 

If NFL teams/stadiums are such a drag on cities then why do they fight tooth and nail to keep the team from leaving?

Because they already invested 300 mill in a stadium with no other use. Politicians don't want to alienate fanbases and voters. Fans are extremely vocal and passionate and politicians are scared of them.  Do you think St louis made any money on that stadium they built for the rams. 300 mill + interst for 20 years will be what 600mill? Plus they had to do all the up keep and got sh*t from parking or concessions. The taxpayers took a bath.

 

If Mass paid for Gillette and kraft wanted to leave, what the hell would that stadium be good for? Brown U football? UMass draws 10,000 there.

 

Cities want to be considered big time, and the politicians are willing to pay for the image, and the NFL is happy to take thier money. 

[PatriotReign37]

You're making excuses for not fixing a 20 year old building.

 

The roof was a problem from day 1.

 

I was living in Atlanta when they threw the GA Dome up. They don't build Domes with that type of roof anymore because of all the problems.

[PatriotReign37]

]

Because they already invested 300 mill in a stadium with no other use. Politicians don't want to alienate fanbases and voters. Fans are extremely vocal and passionate and politicians are scared of them.  Do you think St louis made any money on that stadium they built for the rams. 300 mill + interst for 20 years will be what 600mill? Plus they had to do all the up keep and got sh*t from parking or concessions. The taxpayers took a bath.

 

If Mass paid for Gillette and kraft wanted to leave, what the hell would that stadium be good for? Brown U football? UMass draws 10,000 there.

 

Cities want to be considered big time, and the politicians are willing to pay for the image, and the NFL is happy to take thier money. 

 

 

What a line of horsesh*t. 

 

LA should avoid the Rams stadium at all costs. Right?

[patman]

]

 

 

What a line of horsesh*t. 

 

LA should avoid the Rams stadium at all costs. Right?

Kronke is paying for the stadium and the development that is likely to total almost 1 bill after it is all done.  I am not saying having a team is bad, but when taxpayers pay for the stadium it is!  Any business that is willing to spend 450mill on a stadium is welcome anywhere. But when the team wants to pay 100 mill and the city the other 350 mill and they don't want to give the city any money from concessions, game day parking, and expects the city to furnish 200 cops for game day crowd control is not a good deal for the city and a drain on taxpayers. All the while having the stadium owed by some state authority so that no property taxes are paid. all this to benefit 30,000 STH

 

Google what happened when Al Davis sued the city of Oakland when they did not hold up to the lease, they had to lay off f teachers, fireman and cops.

 

do you know that the state of NJ is still on the hook for over 100mill from the OLD giants stadium that is already torn down. When the jets moved in, the giants got more of a financial benefit from the rent than did the state.  .

 

And that the new Vikings stadium the city and state are paying 500mill and are responsible for the upkeep and all fees, yes the vikings are thowing in 400mill but will derive most of the revenue of non football events held at the facilty.  They get to rent it for concerts, and share in the parking. The debt service and operating expenses of 1 bill will never be recouped.

[Jet9]

Because they already invested 300 mill in a stadium with no other use. Politicians don't want to alienate fanbases and voters. Fans are extremely vocal and passionate and politicians are scared of them. Do you think St louis made any money on that stadium they built for the rams. 300 mill + interst for 20 years will be what 600mill? Plus they had to do all the up keep and got sh*t from parking or concessions. The taxpayers took a bath.

If Mass paid for Gillette and kraft wanted to leave, what the hell would that stadium be good for? Brown U football? UMass draws 10,000 there.

Cities want to be considered big time, and the politicians are willing to pay for the image, and the NFL is happy to take thier money.

Politicians, cities, states don't pay for d*ck. The public does. And that's a major problem.

[PatriotReign37]

Kronke is paying for the stadium and the development that is likely to total almost 1 bill after it is all done.  I am not saying having a team is bad, but when taxpayers pay for the stadium it is!  Any business that is willing to spend 450mill on a stadium is welcome anywhere. But when the team wants to pay 100 mill and the city the other 350 mill and they don't want to give the city any money from concessions, game day parking, and expects the city to furnish 200 cops for game day crowd control is not a good deal for the city and a drain on taxpayers. All the while having the stadium owed by some state authority so that no property taxes are paid. all this to benefit 30,000 STH

 

Google what happened when Al Davis sued the city of Oakland when they did not hold up to the lease, they had to lay off f teachers, fireman and cops.

 

do you know that the state of NJ is still on the hook for over 100mill from the OLD giants stadium that is already torn down. When the jets moved in, the giants got more of a financial benefit from the rent than did the state.  .

 

And that the new Vikings stadium the city and state are paying 500mill and are responsible for the upkeep and all fees, yes the vikings are thowing in 400mill but will derive most of the revenue of non football events held at the facilty.  They get to rent it for concerts, and share in the parking. The debt service and operating expenses of 1 bill will never be recouped.

 

Phoenix just had its 2nd SB. They lost so much money on the SB in 2008 that they decided in their infinite wisdom to have another drain on the city in 2015.

 

Does that make sense to anybody?

 

Some cities like New Orleans have had 10 Super Bowls. Those Suckers. Don't they know that theyre losing money everytime the NFL awards them the Super Bowl? I have no problem with cities/states sharing in the cost of having an NFL team that will generate millions of revenue in the future.

[pdxgreen]

I am so glad I live in a town where people would rather burn their money than build anything.

[Jet9]

Phoenix just had its 2nd SB. They lost so much money on the SB in 2008 that they decided in their infinite wisdom to have another drain on the city in 2015.

 

Does that make sense to anybody?

 

Some cities like New Orleans have had 10 Super Bowls. Those Suckers. Don't they know that theyre losing money everytime the NFL awards them the Super Bowl? I have no problem with cities/states sharing in the cost of having an NFL team that will generate millions of revenue in the future.

 

 

Eh. The books are always cooked regarding the building and financial benefit to the taxpayer of new stadiums. IOW, stadiums are awful for taxpayers. Again, taxpayers should NEVER pay for stadiums in any way shape or form. 

[patman]

Phoenix just had its 2nd SB. They lost so much money on the SB in 2008 that they decided in their infinite wisdom to have another drain on the city in 2015.

 

Does that make sense to anybody?

 

Some cities like New Orleans have had 10 Super Bowls. Those Suckers. Don't they know that theyre losing money everytime the NFL awards them the Super Bowl? I have no problem with cities/states sharing in the cost of having an NFL team that will generate millions of revenue in the future.

In some venues it does make sense, It doesn't make sense more often. Most cities get it once, NY, Detroit, Philly, Balt, DC, NE, Cleveland, Buffalo, Pitt. they won't see the SB, 

Who do you think wil see more SB in the next 20 years, the vikings or the saints, Both stadiums cost the same. How many conventions will be held in NO, how many in Minny?ST Louis etc

[PatriotReign37]

Eh. The books are always cooked regarding the building and financial benefit to the taxpayer of new stadiums. IOW, stadiums are awful for taxpayers. Again, taxpayers should NEVER pay for stadiums in any way shape or form. 

New Orleans has cooks its books 10 times? OK

[Jet9]

New Orleans has cooks its books 10 times? OK

I'm more referring to new stadium builds. They say Stadium A will raise X Amount for the community. It's nonsense. Billion dollar stadiums with just 10 days of guaranteed events. And in the North East it's even worse. Can't do much of anything at Met Life from January - March at least. And let's say the Jets and Giants each are #1 seeds. What's that, 4 more days of event?

Arenas hold a bit more weight. But even they shouldn't be taxpayer funded.

[Morrissey]

Stan Kroenke ready to show NFL owners detailed Inglewood stadium plans

SAM FARMER

March 22, 2015, 12:00 a.m.

Stan Kroenke won't be empty handed this week when he arrives at the NFL owners meetings in Arizona.

The St. Louis Rams owner will be packing finished schematic plans for the world's most interactive and integrated football stadium, a futuristic, $1.86-billion, privately financed venue proposed for the Hollywood Park site in Inglewood.

Continue Reading: http://touch.latimes.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-83117878/

 

 

[Morrissey]

[Sperm Edwards]

I'm more referring to new stadium builds. They say Stadium A will raise X Amount for the community. It's nonsense. Billion dollar stadiums with just 10 days of guaranteed events. And in the North East it's even worse. Can't do much of anything at Met Life from January - March at least. And let's say the Jets and Giants each are #1 seeds. What's that, 4 more days of event?

Arenas hold a bit more weight. But even they shouldn't be taxpayer funded.

+1

The formulas can presume, for example, that 100% of those employed by the stadium would all otherwise be unemployed. That no one working on its construction would have worked on a different construction job, resulting in something else getting built (there or elsewhere,) as though just this one entity exists in a bubble where things are moved to it without being moved from anything else.

While it may very well generate more employed people or tax revenue than there would have otherwise been, there is no doubt it's far, far less than the numbers used.

[Morrissey]

+1

The formulas can presume, for example, that 100% of those employed by the stadium would all otherwise be unemployed. That no one working on its construction would have worked on a different construction job, resulting in something else getting built (there or elsewhere,) as though just this one entity exists in a bubble where things are moved to it without being moved from anything else.

While it may very well generate more employed people or tax revenue than there would have otherwise been, there is no doubt it's far, far less than the numbers used.

Why all these new builds should have a roof or retractable roof like the LA stadium above, and the new builds in Minnesota and Atlanta, guarantees you Finals Fours, Super Bowls, more concerts, and other events.

[Jet9]

Why all these new builds should have a roof or retractable roof like the LA stadium above, and the new builds in Minnesota and Atlanta, guarantees you Finals Fours, Super Bowls, more concerts, and other events.

Agreed...to a point.

If you're Minnesota it guarantees you zero home field advantage come December like it does if you're Green Bay or New England, etc...

[kelticwizard]

+1

The formulas can presume, for example, that 100% of those employed by the stadium would all otherwise be unemployed. That no one working on its construction would have worked on a different construction job, resulting in something else getting built (there or elsewhere,)

The workers not building the stadium might be working a different construction job, but then somebody else would not be working that construction job.  In the end, if the stadium is built there will be more construction jobs filled, and fewer construction workers sitting at home waiting for their next job.

[Sperm Edwards]

The workers not building the stadium might be working a different construction job, but then somebody else would not be working that construction job.  In the end, if the stadium is built there will be more construction jobs filled, and fewer construction workers sitting at home waiting for their next job.

 

Not necessarily. Sometimes people just turn jobs down. If they had nothing else, they wouldn't.  

 

Every person is not otherwise unemployed or displacing someone at the end of the chain who would have been. Formulas assume 100% and it isn't anywhere near that.

[Morrissey]

Agreed...to a point.

If you're Minnesota it guarantees you zero home field advantage come December like it does if you're Green Bay or New England, etc...

I would argue crowd noise is louder in indoor facilities compared to most open air stadiums, Century Link in Seattle being an exception based on the design. Isn't that a home field advantage? Green Gay and New England are good because of the QB's they have had the last 15 years, did the Pats have homefield prior to Brady? hows homefield helping the Bears? or us for that matter.

[Jet9]

I would argue crowd noise is louder in indoor facilities compared to most open air stadiums, Century Link in Seattle being an exception based on the design. Isn't that a home field advantage?

I'm talking about visitor dreading playing in the elements.

[Morrissey]

I'm talking about visitor dreading playing in the elements.

I know, I'm arguing crowd noise would eat into any advantage that may or may not give you... my overall point is that "home field advantage" is overrated.

[Lil Bit Special]

A stadium not even 20 years old is "outdated"? OK.

Yes.  Which is one of many reasons why I wasnt buying into PSL's.  Once theyre paid off they'll build a new stadium and gouge us again

[kelticwizard]

Not necessarily. Sometimes people just turn jobs down. If they had nothing else, they wouldn't.  

 

Every person is not otherwise unemployed or displacing someone at the end of the chain who would have been. Formulas assume 100% and it isn't anywhere near that.

I would disagree.  When it comes to construction work, I would think it is near 100%.  Most construction workers work a job then wait for a call for their next one.  Even if the job is turned down because the guy lives too far away or some other reason, the next in line would be sitting at home waiting for a call if he wasn't working on the stadium.  If a stadium takes X number of construction jobs to build, then X number more construction workers will be employed while the stadium goes up.

[Morrissey]

http://touch.latimes.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-83373303/
 

Chargers and Raiders overhaul design for potential L.A. stadium



SAM FARMER,
April 23, 2015, 7:00 p.m.

Two months after unveiling plans and renderings for a stadium in Carson, the San Diego Chargers and Oakland Raiders have completely overhauled their design for the $1.7-billion project.

The Chargers and Raiders presented their concept in New York this week to NFL Commissione Roger Goodell and the Committee on Los Angeles Opportunities, composed of six team owners.

Although the original renderings were created with input from only the Chargers, the new design is the result of almost two months of collaboration between the franchises.

The revised plans show a futuristic open-air venue with a peristyle intentionally reminiscent of the one at the L.A. Memorial Coliseum.

"We wanted the building to be iconic and sleek, like a luxury sports car," said David Manica, president of Manica Architecture, who is designing the stadium. "Very aerodynamic, in motion, flowing lines from every angle."

A signature element of the design is a 115- to 120-foot tower that rises through and extends above the main concourse. It would serve as a pedestal for a cauldron that would change depending on the team. When the Chargers play, simulated lightning bolts would swirl behind glass encasing the tower and, if the team were to score a touchdown, a bolt would shoot out of the top. For Raiders games, a flame would burn in the cauldron in honor of legendary team owner Al Davis.

The plan would not call for the flame to burst up from the tower in the event of a Raiders touchdown.

If the venue were to play host to a Super Bowl, the tower would be transformed into a giant Lombardi Trophy.

Carson's City Council unanimously approved the privately financed stadium Tuesday, though many details remain to be negotiated between the city and teams. The project would occupy the 168-acre site of a former landfill next to the 405 Freeway.

Although the previous stadium design included a multilevel suite tower on one side, the new plan's contiguous exterior encases a horseshoe seating configuration that's open on one end. Designers expect that change to help surround the field with noise. Flowing bands wrap around the outside of the structure.

The "core concepts" of the project, Manica said, focus on an open and airy design.

"Ownership really wants to celebrate the history and enthusiasm of football in Los Angeles," he said.

Manica formerly worked at HOK Sport. There, he led the design of the Houston Texans' stadium, the renovation of the Miami Dolphins' stadium and the seating bowl of Wembley Stadium in London.

A rival stadium project in Inglewood, backed by St. Louis Rams owner Stan Kroenke, would have a roof — though it is open air on the sides — and artificial turf. It would be set 100 feet into the ground. In Carson, the plan is to have seating at ground level and use natural grass.

Kroenke has had a small army of architects and engineers working on the design for his project for a year, and the plans are significantly further along. The Chargers first investigated the Carson sie last summer and started collaborating with the Raiders on the stadium design March 1.

Dozens of renderings of other would-be NFL stadiums in the Los Angeles area have come and gone in the two decades since the Rams and Raiders left. None of them materialized. That included one proposal in 1999 for a Spanish-style stadium on the same site in Carson with a bell that would ring after touchdowns.

Meanwhile, Manica's 10-person team is essentially finished with concept designs for the project. The next step is schematic designs, which contain significantly more detail and are expected to take four to six months to complete.

The color of the stadium's seats has not been decided. But Manica has entertained the possibility of installing clear seats that reflect the color of lights shining on them.

The Chargers and Raiders are expected to present their new stadium design to the rest of the 32 teams at the league meetings in San Francisco next month. Kroenke and the city of St. Louis also are expected to give separate presentations.

Ultimately, the NFL will decide which stadium project to pursue, with that decision hinging on the three-quarters majority vote of the league's owners.

Jeffrey Pollack, special advisor to Chargers President Dean Spanos, said that a goal for the Carson venue is "to create a signature building for Los Angeles that people recognize worldwide."

[Matt39]

Jets could use a new building

[PatsFanTX]

Jets could use a new building

If Woody wasn't so damn cheap and looking for tax payer hand-outs or splitting the the costs with the Giants, the Jets would have the absolute best stadium in the NFL.

The renditions of the West Side Stadium were phenomenal.

[Morrissey]

If Woody wasn't so damn cheap and looking for tax payer hand-outs or splitting the the costs with the Giants, the Jets would have the absolute best stadium in the NFL.

The renditions of the West Side Stadium were phenomenal.

God damn travesty. Complaints about traffic were so silly. Do people complain about traffic outside Madison Square Garden? No, because you don't drive to Madison Square Garden. Not getting that ststadium biggest fumble in franchise history by far. Hard to put into words how important it would of been for the franchise to be New York City's true team. Sad and shortsighted. They can get out of the lease in 10 years, and every 5 years after that, but West Side location will be long gone.

[Matt39]

If Woody wasn't so damn cheap and looking for tax payer hand-outs or splitting the the costs with the Giants, the Jets would have the absolute best stadium in the NFL.

The renditions of the West Side Stadium were phenomenal.

 

Dolan and his buddy Sheldon Silver sabotaged that...that actually wasnt Woody's fault. Silver's now going to jail.

[Jet9]

Dolan and his buddy Sheldon Silver sabotaged that...that actually wasnt Woody's fault. Silver's now going to jail.

Thank you.

I hate Woody as much as the next guy but it simply wasn't the case here.

[PatsFanTX]

Dolan and his buddy Sheldon Silver sabotaged that...that actually wasnt Woody's fault. Silver's now going to jail.

It all comes down to money Matt.

Woody certainly had enough to get around Dolan and Silver.

Woody chose the easy way out.

The Jets could be playing in the Taj Mahal of the NFL if Woody had a bigger set.

[Jet9]

It all comes down to money Matt.

Woody certainly had enough to get around Dolan and Silver.

Woody chose the easy way out.

The Jets could be playing in the Taj Mahal of the NFL if Woody had a bigger set.

You clearly don't know jack sh*t about Dolan or Shelly Silver. Quit while you're ahead.

[Matt39]

It all comes down to money Matt.

Woody certainly had enough to get around Dolan and Silver.

Woody chose the easy way out.

The Jets could be playing in the Taj Mahal of the NFL if Woody had a bigger set.

 

Not true...Silver owned Albany at that point. All the money in the world wasnt going to change that. NY like Taxachusetts is as corrupt as it gets.

[Morrissey]

A new rendering of the proposed stadium in Carson shows a 120-foot-tall tower with a cauldron. When the Chargers score, lightning bolts will flash. A flame will burn in the cauldron in honor of legendary team owner Al Davis during Raiders games.

[PatsFanTX]

Not true...Silver owned Albany at that point. All the money in the world wasnt going to change that. NY like Taxachusetts is as corrupt as it gets.

That's my point, if Woody played his cards right, he would have made Silver look like a friggn' hero and the WSS would have been the 2nd greatest structure in Manhattan behind the new WTC tower.