Knicks Off-season/Training camp/I don't want to talk about the Jets thread

[Matt39]

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/10/16/schmeelk-knicks-tip-off-event-a-total-and-utter-disaster-from-start-to-finish/

[SMC]

http://newyork.cbslo...tart-to-finish/

LOL, don't you have your own thread for this kinda stuff?

[SMC]

This is ridiculous.

STAT out 2 to 3 weeks with a ruptured popliteal cyst behind left knee. That means he misses the start of the season.

http://espn.go.com/n...tured-knee-cyst

[RutgersJetFan]

This is ridiculous.

STAT out 2 to 3 weeks with a ruptured popliteal cyst behind left knee. That means he misses the start of the season.

http://espn.go.com/n...tured-knee-cyst

I'm really starting to question this medical staff. We've seen the effects that good and bad ones can have on a team, (Phoenix and Portland notably), there's just been too much sh*t the past couple years for it not to at least be a cause for concern.

[SMC]

I'm really starting to question this medical staff. We've seen the effects that good and bad ones can have on a team, (Phoenix and Portland notably), there's just been too much sh*t the past couple years for it not to at least be a cause for concern.

Agreed. It's getting close to being the Brown's.

[BroadwayJoe12]

I'm really starting to question this medical staff. We've seen the effects that good and bad ones can have on a team, (Phoenix and Portland notably), there's just been too much sh*t the past couple years for it not to at least be a cause for concern.

I know I'm probably forgetting something, but besides Shump's meniscus on christmas day/ his ACL in the playoffs, Baron's blown out knee and Amare's back, what else was there?? Legit question as I don't really remember too many injuries we can place on the medical staff besides Amare's back. Chandlers wrist and Amare's fire-extinguisher injury aren't really training issues. I just think we had some really poor luck as far as freak accidents and Amare being a dumbass.

[BroadwayJoe12]

Anyone catch the end of the game tonight?? 5 points, 11 assists, 4 rebounds and 3 steals for Prigs tonight and another 16 points for Copeland. Once Camby and Amare come back, I would put our second unit up against the bobcats and a few other starting five.

[RutgersJetFan]

I know I'm probably forgetting something, but besides Shump's meniscus on christmas day/ his ACL in the playoffs, Baron's blown out knee and Amare's back, what else was there?? Legit question as I don't really remember too many injuries we can place on the medical staff besides Amare's back. Chandlers wrist and Amare's fire-extinguisher injury aren't really training issues. I just think we had some really poor luck as far as freak accidents and Amare being a dumbass.

I have several options here:

1. Ignore this post, look stupid.

2. List what I believe to be an abnormal amount of injuries, have perfectly legitimate medical reasons explained back to me, look stupid.

3. Preemptively Google each one to try and prevent option #2 from happening, then list injuries, then have perfectly legitimate medical reasons explained back to me anyways, look stupid.

I'm going to go with option #1.

[BroadwayJoe12]

I have several options here:

1. Ignore this post, look stupid.

2. List what I believe to be an abnormal amount of injuries, have perfectly legitimate medical reasons explained back to me, look stupid.

3. Preemptively Google each one to try and prevent option #2 from happening, then list injuries, then have perfectly legitimate medical reasons explained back to me anyways, look stupid.

I'm going to go with option #1.

****. I take full responsibility if Tyson Chandler's "banged knee" from last night turns out to be worse. F*cking woodson said it was just a bruised knee in last night's game and he was being held out for precautionary reasons, yet this morning they're saying he's on crutches and getting an MRI. A couple things before anyone/including myself freaks out; you see a lot of players with ankles and knees on crutches just to prevent any inflamation and MRIs are pretty much common practice for any knee or ankle tweak. But god damn, if there's a player you can't really afford to lose, Chandler has to be one of them. At least his backup Camby is healthy...or out with a calf. I know it's a long season, so whatever, as long as they're healthy at the end of the season, but it's still annoying.

[SMC]

Freakin Tyson gets hurt in the first minute of the last preseason game. Knicks saying it's a bruised knee like Broadway mentioned, and he should be ready for the opener. In other words, Tyson is going to miss at least a month.

Knicks medical staff stinks.

[SMC]

Knicks announce that Tyson has a bone bruise and is day-to-day.

In other words, he's out until January.

[rillo]

Amare out for the first month....jesus.

[SMC]

Amare out for the first month....jesus.

Not confirmed, but because Knicks medical staff sucks that is likely.

Also, Copeland made the team, which is a good story.

[RutgersJetFan]

Remember when everyone was livid at D'Antoni during his first year because of the potential long-term effects from how he was running Amare into the ground? And by everyone, I mean me.

[SMC]

Remember when everyone was livid at D'Antoni during his first year because of the potential long-term effects from how he was running Amare into the ground? And by everyone, I mean me.

Yeah, you werent alone, but you calld that like Ruth calling his shot in the World Series.

[BroadwayJoe12]

I dunno, I wouldn't blame this on Mike's usage of Amare. It's pretty doubtful that his play from a couple years ago would lead to the formation of the Baker's cyst now. The thing you have to worry about is the underlying cause of why this occurred. A lot of times it's due to torn cartilage in a meniscus, but in Amare's case, I wouldn't be surprised if he already has a form of early-stage arthritis that caused the friction that lead to the excess fluid build up.

In all fairness to Amare, ever since his micro fracture surgery he's played in more regular season games than guys like Melo, Tyson, Pierce, KG, Gasol, Bosh, Wade, Parker, Ginobli etc. While I definitely agree that it was a pretty bad, knee-jerk reaction contract, it was more due to the fact I don't think his play warranted the money and less worry about his health.

Regardless, don't be surprised to see Amare out for a couple months with a torn meniscus or something. Which maybe will make Woodson realize that his best role is to come off the bench and play with that second unit. It would benefit the team so much more. A second unit of Kidd/Prigs, JR, Novak, Amare, Camby would be pretty impressive.

[RutgersJetFan]

I dunno, I wouldn't blame this on Mike's usage of Amare.

In all fairness to Amare, ever since his micro fracture surgery he's played in more regular season games than guys like Melo, Tyson, Pierce, KG, Gasol, Bosh, Wade, Parker, Ginobli etc.

[BroadwayJoe12]

Awesome ****ing movie, one of my favorites. Speaking of Tom Hanks, slightly worried that Cloud Atlas is going to be the bastard child of the Matrix and Forrest Gump and totally flop.

[BroadwayJoe12]

Well, f*ck. I should have known better than to leave this thread, is it thursday yet?

[BroadwayJoe12]

Looks as though Amare is out for 6-8 weeks, most likely reporting it in the next day or so. If I were a betting man, I'd bet good money that he has a torn meniscus and that's what caused the cyst, which is why the surgical recovery time will be two months. Guess that dream shake will be on hold for a bit. Whatever, if it means he's healthy come playoff time than I'd rather this than that bullsh*t where everyone decided to get hurt/punch an extinguisher in the first round of the playoffs. Sucks Melo and Amare won't get to gel, but hopefully we go on a roll and Woodson has no choice but to bring him off the bench, which is where he'll benefit the team the most.

[Matt39]

Looks as though Amare is out for 6-8 weeks, most likely reporting it in the next day or so. If I were a betting man, I'd bet good money that he has a torn meniscus and that's what caused the cyst, which is why the surgical recovery time will be two months. Guess that dream shake will be on hold for a bit. Whatever, if it means he's healthy come playoff time than I'd rather this than that bullsh*t where everyone decided to get hurt/punch an extinguisher in the first round of the playoffs. Sucks Melo and Amare won't get to gel, but hopefully we go on a roll and Woodson has no choice but to bring him off the bench, which is where he'll benefit the team the most.

The guy spent his offseason going to fashion shows, you'd think he'd be able to be proactive about this type of thing. The whole Hakeem thing was a publicity stunt. Hey buddy, you're in your 12th season, you're a 4 man, we're supposed to be impressed you're finally working on a post game? Get out of here.

[dolphann4life]

David Lee > Amare....Rutger's, care to chime in?

[BroadwayJoe12]

The guy spent his offseason going to fashion shows, you'd think he'd be able to be proactive about this type of thing. The whole Hakeem thing was a publicity stunt. Hey buddy, you're in your 12th season, you're a 4 man, we're supposed to be impressed you're finally working on a post game? Get out of here.

Sure, he went to a couple fashion shows, these guys are allowed to have a life outside of training during their off-season. Dude could be in the gym and on the court for 10+ hours straight and then go grab dinner at an event and all of a sudden he's doggin it to some of you guys. However, even the biggest hater in the world can't deny the fact that Amare is one of the hardest working players in the league when it comes to conditioning and training in the off-season. The whole Hakeem thing was anything but a publicity stunt; Amare knows he has to evolve his game, which is why he paid 20k+ a day for two weeks to train with the dream, when Lebron/Kobe/Bynum et al. only went to him for a day or so. Amare is extremely dedicated when it comes to the off-season, so that is something that I will never fault him for. The only thing I've ever criticized him for, is for the dumbass fire-extinguisher things, never his play or training.

As for why he hasn't learned post moves? It's simple, he played in an offense where he never had to. After coming right out of high school, the kid literally could do anything he wanted on the floor athletically, including going one-on-one with Duncan, so it was never a necessity to learn post moves. Just because he didn't develop a post-game doesn't mean he didn't work on his game. He was never a great shooter, but he put in time and developed a killer mid-range game.

The absolute only thing I don't like about the situation is his contract, as everyone knew his knees wouldn't hold up for 5 years, but that's not on him and i won't take it out on him as that's a f*ck up by the FO.

[BroadwayJoe12]

David Lee > Amare....Rutger's, care to chime in?

David Lee is just a soft mehmet okur lol. If we're talking just as a player and not contract, Amare trumps Lee no question; neither play defense and Amare's game is/was so much more dominant. Take a look at their WSs prior to last year, they aren't even in the same ballpark. But if you're talking contracts, yea, everyone knew Amare wouldn't stay healthy for 5 years. Then again, who the hell is coming to NY to play with David Lee?

[RutgersJetFan]

David Lee > Amare....Rutger's, care to chime in?

Meh, not even worth the comparison. Amare is the worst-best contract ever and Lee's simply would have been a bad one. Not signing Amare has a residual effect for literally everything that happened after. No Melo. No Chandler. All of those acquisitions happened with the Stat signing as a catalyst, none of them happen with Lee who's also grossly overpaid. The crux of the problem with Amare is that the guy has been nothing short of a giant ****ing toolbox since he became second fiddle and just went off the deep end. The Knicks wouldn't even be a playoff team if their biggest signing that year had been Lee.

Then again I'm really not sure how any of it matters. Amare or no Amare. Lee or no Lee. It's Lebron's league now and that's that. Nothing the Knicks could have done short landing him would have changed that. At the very least landing Stat put in place a process to get something competitive on the floor. David Lee at only $5 mill less a year probably doesn't do the same.

[Matt39]

Sure, he went to a couple fashion shows, these guys are allowed to have a life outside of training during their off-season. Dude could be in the gym and on the court for 10+ hours straight and then go grab dinner at an event and all of a sudden he's doggin it to some of you guys. However, even the biggest hater in the world can't deny the fact that Amare is one of the hardest working players in the league when it comes to conditioning and training in the off-season. The whole Hakeem thing was anything but a publicity stunt; Amare knows he has to evolve his game, which is why he paid 20k+ a day for two weeks to train with the dream, when Lebron/Kobe/Bynum et al. only went to him for a day or so. Amare is extremely dedicated when it comes to the off-season, so that is something that I will never fault him for. The only thing I've ever criticized him for, is for the dumbass fire-extinguisher things, never his play or training.

As for why he hasn't learned post moves? It's simple, he played in an offense where he never had to. After coming right out of high school, the kid literally could do anything he wanted on the floor athletically, including going one-on-one with Duncan, so it was never a necessity to learn post moves. Just because he didn't develop a post-game doesn't mean he didn't work on his game. He was never a great shooter, but he put in time and developed a killer mid-range game.

The absolute only thing I don't like about the situation is his contract, as everyone knew his knees wouldn't hold up for 5 years, but that's not on him and i won't take it out on him as that's a f*ck up by the FO.

It's just a small part of how big of a mess the Knicks are. Im sorry but its you're 12th season in the league....the light shouldnt go on now to work on your post game.

Kurt Thomas is starting on Friday. Its just laughable. If this team has more wins than the Cavs I'll be surprised.

[BroadwayJoe12]

It's just a small part of how big of a mess the Knicks are. Im sorry but its you're 12th season in the league....the light shouldnt go on now to work on your post game.

Kurt Thomas is starting on Friday. Its just laughable. If this team has more wins than the Cavs I'll be surprised.

And you're certainly entitled to that opinion, you definitely aren't the only person who thinks that. However, the Knicks played some of their best ball last year with Amare out of the lineup and as long as Tyson is on the court, we have one of the best defenses in the league. Losing STAT certainly doesn't hurt a defense that was top 5 in points allowed per 100 posessions last year.

And while I'm not saying the team is better without STAT, their strating five is: the team's starting five is better constructed with Amare out of the lineup. Chandler plays the five, Melo will slide into the four, brewer could play the 3 for a defensive look, smith the two, felton the one, which is all subject to change depending on the matchup. Melo played his best ball last year when he slid into the PF spot and there's no reason he can't do this against the elite of the east; brandon bass, jsmoove and david west aren't guys that would cause us to go big. Potentially, the only teams that would force us to go big at the four are all out west and when that happens, then we can start thomas or a healthy *crosses fingers* camby.

It's never a good thing when one of your star players goes down, but if anything I just hope this makes them realize that he's better suited to come off the bench. Not only for the benefit of the team, but for his long-term health.

[SMC]

We lost power at 2 pm on Monday and still have no power. I finally was able to take the F train into work in Manhattan today, but I'm going to leave early to get back home since there is no one there (had to send wife & kids to sister-in-law) and watch out for looters.

So there was two big entertainment news I've missed, one I expected and one I didnt. I didn't expect Disney to buy Star Wars, but hey, there'll be a new feature film in 2015. The other is STAT being out longer than the Knicks originally said.

And as to Matt:

If this team has more wins than the Cavs I'll be surprised.

Let's see if he ends up like T0mShane and his infamous Tyson Chandler claim.

[#27TheDominator]

I know that you don't want him starting at the age of 116, but I think Kurt Thomas one underrated dude. Crazy Kurt (we called him that because of his crazy eyes) plays and understands defense. He played the 4 and the 5 during the finals run in 1999 and got no respect. He can also score and rebound, though he was more of a "when necessary" scorer. Led the NCAA in scoring and rebounding his senior year too. I forgot he was even still in the league while I was in Italy, but he'll do the dirty work.

[Matt39]

I know that you don't want him starting at the age of 116, but I think Kurt Thomas one underrated dude. Crazy Kurt (we called him that because of his crazy eyes) plays and understands defense. He played the 4 and the 5 during the finals run in 1999 and got no respect. He can also score and rebound, though he was more of a "when necessary" scorer. Led the NCAA in scoring and rebounding his senior year too. I forgot he was even still in the league while I was in Italy, but he'll do the dirty work.

I have no beef with KT he just isnt a starter. Just feels like the Knicks have been spinning their tires in the mud since the Melo deal. Appeasing Melo isnt going to bring a chip.

[BroadwayJoe12]

I know that you don't want him starting at the age of 116, but I think Kurt Thomas one underrated dude. Crazy Kurt (we called him that because of his crazy eyes) plays and understands defense. He played the 4 and the 5 during the finals run in 1999 and got no respect. He can also score and rebound, though he was more of a "when necessary" scorer. Led the NCAA in scoring and rebounding his senior year too. I forgot he was even still in the league while I was in Italy, but he'll do the dirty work.

Agreed. But as I was mentioning above, he most likely, and this is just my speculation here, will only draw the start against those western conference teams that force us to go big. Melo will have no problem sliding into the four-spot against the vast majority of the teams in the east, which will allow us to go small. He dominated in that role last year and I'm just hoping that we win enough games that woodson realizes it's not worth effing up chemistry and has Amare come off the bench.

[#27TheDominator]

Agreed. But as I was mentioning above, he most likely, and this is just my speculation here, will only draw the start against those western conference teams that force us to go big. Melo will have no problem sliding into the four-spot against the vast majority of the teams in the east, which will allow us to go small. He dominated in that role last year and I'm just hoping that we win enough games that woodson realizes it's not worth effing up chemistry and has Amare come off the bench.

I understand your thinking, but I think you are way too caught up in the term "starter". There is absolutely no way that Stoudamire is going to come off the bench. None. I don't think there is any reason to bench him. You aren't going to send him a message. If you just prefer his skillset with the backups, they can muck with the rotations to make him play more minutes there and so that Carmelo and he are not sitting at the same time, but they aren't going to have him come off the bench.

[BroadwayJoe12]

I understand your thinking, but I think you are way too caught up in the term "starter". There is absolutely no way that Stoudamire is going to come off the bench. None. I don't think there is any reason to bench him. You aren't going to send him a message. If you just prefer his skillset with the backups, they can muck with the rotations to make him play more minutes there and so that Carmelo and he are not sitting at the same time, but they aren't going to have him come off the bench.

The "starter" term wouldn't affect me if Woodson didn't insist on playing Melo, Amare and Chandler together, when it's clear as day Amare doesn't mesh with either. I don't like him starting, simply for the fact that the team's efficiency seems to take a drastic hit when he's on the court, however if he were able to play more with the the second unit, I think his skillset would be better utilized. I'd have less problems with him starting if he played the majority of his minutes without Chandler on the floor...unless Chandler somehow developed a 12 ft jump shoot over the offseason.

[#27TheDominator]

The "starter" term wouldn't affect me if Woodson didn't insist on playing Melo, Amare and Chandler together, when it's clear as day Amare doesn't mesh with either. I don't like him starting, simply for the fact that the team's efficiency seems to take a drastic hit when he's on the court, however if he were able to play more with the the second unit, I think his skillset would be better utilized. I'd have less problems with him starting if he played the majority of his minutes without Chandler on the floor...unless Chandler somehow developed a 12 ft jump shoot over the offseason.

Right. He's not coming off the bench, but they can stagger their minutes so that he spends a ton of time where there aren't all three on the floor at once. Who is on the floor down the stretch is usually more telling, but trying to make him a 6th man will be more embarassing. For any of this to happen he has to get on the floor though and one of the others will probably go down before he makes it back.

[RutgersJetFan]

Novak's made some serious strides in his defensive game. He's still not that great but at least he's not god awful anymore. Good to see I may be wrong about the Kidd signing. Forgot how good Felton is defending the perimeter too, but my god is he still awful when he gets trapped in the post. Say what you will about Lin but the difference with perimeter D and passing is pretty noticeable. Nice win, but I only caught the 2nd half and it looks like Miami didn't really come to play and they're probably just using the early part of the season to figure out their new rotations. Really hoping that we were going that heavy from the arc simply because our shots were falling and Woodson just decided to go with what's working, I can't take yet another year of living and dying by the 3. It's pretty obvious that this is going to be a drastically different team after the AS break when both Camby and Amare are on the floor, (hopefully). If Miami had trouble with NY's size tonight it'll be interesting to see how thing go when we're at full capacity.

P.S. The crowd cheering for and then erupting when Sheed went on the floor was hilarious.