SenorGato Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Yeah. That's why they should draft players with size and speed. No, that should be done in general as those are the top 2 pre-reqs to playing in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Meaning, Rex or Mornhinweg don't get to break a tie between two OLB's or two WR's if it's close, because Idzik is the one who has to live with that choice two, three, five years from now when Rex is the DC in Arizona and Mornhinweg is running a QB camp in Sante Fe. They shouldn't be breaking any ties. Neither are scouts or the GM. Maybe they offer an opinion, but those are late career Belichick and Parcells privileges, and probably does not appeal to Rex. I doubt there are any more than a handful of HC's who track the draft with GMs and play a big part of who is draft. I certainly wouldn't expect it Hot Coordinator to come in and take over the draft either. Idzik would be a sh*t GM hire if he considered listening to Rex's, Hot Coordinator's, or MM's opinion in the draft to break a tie or ignore them completely. I don't have a problem with input or "breaking ties" The problem is if they are all ties. The GM should know damn well what he is trying to do. I'm happy if they talk scouting and what they see, but I'm not happy if the GM just defers. When it is all said and done I want the GM to be able to say "that is my draft" every ******* year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 I don't have a problem with input or "breaking ties" The problem is if they are all ties. The GM should know damn well what he is trying to do. I'm happy if they talk scouting and what they see, but I'm not happy if the GM just defers. When it is all said and done I want the GM to be able to say "that is my draft" every ******* year. Exactly. Acquiring players is the GM's job and the responsibility falls on him. HC coach, GM acquires players, and players play football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonehands Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Bit, Am I nuts, but I am starting to think EJ Manual gets drafted in the first round? He has the kind of skills where I think someone gets a man crush and picks him before the QB needy teams at the top of the second round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsnts725 Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Bit, Am I nuts, but I am starting to think EJ Manual gets drafted in the first round? He has the kind of skills where I think someone gets a man crush and picks him before the QB needy teams at the top of the second round. I wouldn't be surprised if he was. Mike Mayock recently moved him up to his No. 2 QB behind Geno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJoe12 Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Yeah. That's why they should draft players with size and speed. Isn't that what we did when we drafted Stephen Hill and haven't people been complaining about for almost a year now? And that was in the second round. I shudder to think what people would be saying if we drafted a 20 lb lighter version of percy harvin and the guy got dinged up a couple times hist first year. **For the record, I think the kid is going to be a star, but like you mentioned, I'd have a very difficult time biting the bullet on a 174 lb top ten pick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Isn't that what we did when we drafted Stephen Hill and haven't people been complaining about for almost a year now? And that was in the second round. I shudder to think what people would be saying if we drafted a 20 lb lighter version of percy harvin and the guy got dinged up a couple times hist first year. **For the record, I think the kid is going to be a star, but like you mentioned, I'd have a very difficult time biting the bullet on a 174 lb top ten pick I was mocking SenorGato there. Stephen Hill had zero production in college, which is why it's predictable that he sucks now. Austin had oodles. Yes, size and speed are prerequisites, but you have to know how to play football, too. Hill...doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 If Jones isnt there, I'd go with either guard the Jets like better. Assuming Geno isnt there too, I wouldnt mind Tavon Austin either. I think Austin is the best WR in the class. I'd be fine with either G too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 I was mocking SenorGato there. Stephen Hill had zero production in college, which is why it's predictable that he sucks now. Austin had oodles. Yes, size and speed are prerequisites, but you have to know how to play football, too. Hill...doesn't. Not sure you noticed but Tavon Austin is probably the fastest player on the field in his draft. Speed...size and speed...it's in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Bit, Am I nuts, but I am starting to think EJ Manual gets drafted in the first round? He has the kind of skills where I think someone gets a man crush and picks him before the QB needy teams at the top of the second round. it's not crazy, Manuel did have a good Senior Bowl and he did get invited to the draft in NY (usually a sign that the league thinks the player will go in round 1). I don't see a natural fit in the 2nd half of the round but certainly could be a trade-up target for teams getting back into the round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flgreen Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 it's not crazy, Manuel did have a good Senior Bowl and he did get invited to the draft in NY (usually a sign that the league thinks the player will go in round 1). I don't see a natural fit in the 2nd half of the round but certainly could be a trade-up target for teams getting back into the round. Wow Manuel got invited to the draft? This guy really has shot up draft boards. When the season ended I was hoping the Jets could get him in the 3-4 range. Can’t imagine why a player like Manuel would take an invite to the draft. If you don’t go early 1st you are sitting there for hours looking at your fingernails, while being shown on TV every 5 mins. If they want to go to NY for free, wait until you sign your contract, then pay for it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 BIT, what is your take on the non-Eifert/Ertz TEs? Specifically I'm looking at Nick Kasa, Gavin Escobar, Travis Kelce, and Ryan Otten. Aside: I remember Ben Patrick getting alot of internet love, destined to be a 2nd round pick. He ended up going in the 7th and doing nothing. What happened there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 BIT, what is your take on the non-Eifert/Ertz TEs? Specifically I'm looking at Nick Kasa, Gavin Escobar, Travis Kelce, and Ryan Otten. Aside: I remember Ben Patrick getting alot of internet love, destined to be a 2nd round pick. He ended up going in the 7th and doing nothing. What happened there? I really like Kelce as an all arounder in the mold of Chad Lewis. he's my #3 TE and easy top 100 pick. Gavin Escobar is a fairly nasty receiving TE in the mold of Aaron Hernandez (or Keller). (Jordan Reed too is like that) not draft related but I suspect the Jets will sign a tight end fairly soon. They were linked to Kellen Davis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbanmadmike1 Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 bitonti, on 20 Mar 2013 - 16:14, said: I really like Kelce as an all arounder in the mold of Chad Lewis. he's my #3 TE and easy top 100 pick. Gavin Escobar is a fairly nasty receiving TE in the mold of Aaron Hernandez (or Keller). (Jordan Reed too is like that) not draft related but I suspect the Jets will sign a tight end fairly soon. They were linked to Kellen Davis. Kellen Davis is HORRIBLE. I hope they are thinking about going through the draft for a TE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetsjetsjetss Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 star just had an awesome pro day and is medically cleared (heart problem due to virus or dehydration or both). What do you think of him now at 9? he may not be there tho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 How many TEs do you think they draft? For instance, an Eifert/Ertz/Kelce + a Reed/Otten/Escobar/Rivera combo? Would you be pissed that the Jets just copied the Pats? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsnts725 Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Hey Bit.. do you like any of the other QB prospects besides Geno Smith? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 star just had an awesome pro day and is medically cleared (heart problem due to virus or dehydration or both). What do you think of him now at 9? he may not be there tho he did work out but that's not the same as being cleared. there's a dude Jene Bremel who is a real doctor, wrote a pretty good article about it today http://bramelsecondopinion.com/2013/03/20/star-lotulelei-why-his-pro-day-workout-may-be-irrelevant/ I suspect Idzik isn't a gambler on a DT. all of his moves so far have been safe and building block type moves. in short I think Star will be there at 9 and I think the Jets will pass. he probably goes 14 CAR, 15 NO. or he could fall to the playoff teams. whoever drafts him is taking a chance. i know ESPN todd mcshay has him #1 or whatever but this is some scary stuff. many GM personally have no taste for risk at that high in the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 How many TEs do you think they draft? For instance, an Eifert/Ertz/Kelce + a Reed/Otten/Escobar/Rivera combo? Would you be pissed that the Jets just copied the Pats? honestly they might not draft any. So many holes and TE is one of the few positions where they have youth, cheapness and upside. Cumby, Rueland and Hayden Smith it's far from great but add an FA it's serviceable. and all three of those guys are relatively young and talented. at least compared to other positions. meanwhile they have no WR, no starting safeties, a starting guard spot still open, 1 pass rusher etc. the te need might have to be late round or UDFA when it comes to the draft. (we could say the same about NT they are ok with Kenrick Ellis and Damon Harrison) they will probably sign a FA and maybe look day 2 or 3. I don't predict and Eifert or Kelce type of rd 1-2 pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 meanwhile they have no WR, They have more WRs than TEs IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbanmadmike1 Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 bitonti, on 20 Mar 2013 - 20:03, said: honestly they might not draft any. So many holes and TE is one of the few positions where they have youth, cheapness and upside. Cumby, Rueland and Hayden Smith it's far from great but add an FA it's serviceable. and all three of those guys are relatively young and talented. at least compared to other positions. meanwhile they have no WR, no starting safeties, a starting guard spot still open, 1 pass rusher etc. the te need might have to be late round or UDFA when it comes to the draft. (we could say the same about NT they are ok with Kenrick Ellis and Damon Harrison) they will probably sign a FA and maybe look day 2 or 3. I don't predict and Eifert or Kelce type of rd 1-2 pick. There are no FA TE's worth signing. They have to draft one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 They have more WRs than TEs IMO. maybe that's true but they have to start twice as many WR. Can't count Holmes. I'd rather rely on Cumby starting TE than Hill at WR2 (in a WCO). every other WR is basically a futures guy. they have 8 futures guys and 2 drafted players. I hope Stephen Hill becomes Randy Moss or whatever but it's not really likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedro55 Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Randy Moss was offensive ROY. Not sure how a guy like Stephen Hill is ever in any conversations like this. T The guy had 50 receptions total in college. Most good WRs have that in half a college season. So how was it a surprise he barely showed up last season? Blame Sanchez. Blame the Jets offense. Fitzgerald was in a worse situation and still wound up with 71 receptions. I don't buy the sell on Hill. He's a guy who could be some backup, not a guy who should be a starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Hill does not have to become Randy Moss to be worth a 2nd round pick, 5th, and 7th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetsjetsjetss Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 he did work out but that's not the same as being cleared. there's a dude Jene Bremel who is a real doctor, wrote a pretty good article about it today http://bramelsecondopinion.com/2013/03/20/star-lotulelei-why-his-pro-day-workout-may-be-irrelevant/ I suspect Idzik isn't a gambler on a DT. all of his moves so far have been safe and building block type moves. in short I think Star will be there at 9 and I think the Jets will pass. he probably goes 14 CAR, 15 NO. or he could fall to the playoff teams. whoever drafts him is taking a chance. i know ESPN todd mcshay has him #1 or whatever but this is some scary stuff. many GM personally have no taste for risk at that high in the draft. I dont understand how you are pro jarvis jones and not pro this guy tho lol. Im liking all these injuries tho getting some players who were rated insanely high to drop to us also tbh from my understanding of this (i just research cancer and stem cells not a doctor but do have some knowledge of the body) if there was a legit problem with his heart (physical abnormality or something it would have been detected already) Some people just have different bodies and it doesnt have to effect them. Hell we all think my brother is weird for having a resting heart beat at 40 but hes normal. It obviously didnt effect him in college so unless they find a physical or genetic reason for the problem i dont think it is a problem. edit: PS this guy is a pediatrician/trainer man he should know stuff about joints and simple things of the heart like a murmur but not this. Id have to believe star has seen cardiologists just as jones saw a spinal expert and was misdiagnosed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Hell we all think my brother is weird for having a resting heart beat at 40 but hes normal 49! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 I dont understand how you are pro jarvis jones and not pro this guy tho lol. Im liking all these injuries tho getting some players who were rated insanely high to drop to us also tbh from my understanding of this (i just research cancer and stem cells not a doctor but do have some knowledge of the body) if there was a legit problem with his heart (physical abnormality or something it would have been detected already) Some people just have different bodies and it doesnt have to effect them. Hell we all think my brother is weird for having a resting heart beat at 40 but hes normal. It obviously didnt effect him in college so unless they find a physical or genetic reason for the problem i dont think it is a problem. edit: PS this guy is a pediatrician/trainer man he should know stuff about joints and simple things of the heart like a murmur but not this. Id have to believe star has seen cardiologists just as jones saw a spinal expert and was misdiagnosed the comparison is different because Star didn't have Suh like production. Jones has terrell suggs like production and there's a cost/benefit there. I don't see taking the risk for star a guy with 6 career sacks. That's all medicals aside, Star isn't a top 5 pick. Jones I think is a legit top 5 pick based on his college career, assuming he runs decently. he doesn't have to run 4.4's to be good in the NFL. Enlarged heart with a 300+ person is always a threat. By any medical standards, Star's BMI is not ideal. the heart also enlarges when there's this condition. In short he could drop down and that's a risk that top 10 teams can't take. Jarvis Jones i don't think it's as serious as Star. Remember this isn't like you or me getting a scratcher ticket, these guys are betting their jobs on these picks. The Saints or below can risk Star. the Pats could take star, have him collapse in preseason and win the super bowl in his honor, cause they have Brady. the teams that don't have a QB can't gamble on a Star situation. He'll probably be fine. But these GM's are uptight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 maybe that's true but they have to start twice as many WR. Can't count Holmes. I'd rather rely on Cumby starting TE than Hill at WR2 (in a WCO). every other WR is basically a futures guy. they have 8 futures guys and 2 drafted players. I hope Stephen Hill becomes Randy Moss or whatever but it's not really likely. This doesn't have anything to do with your point, but isn't "futures guys" a knock like UDFA? Is there a distinction or are you using it as a generic term for stiffs or specific "futures" guys? I would put Gates a step above that. Gates was a 4th rounder that the picked up off waivers. He has never been out of the leauge or off a roster. I think I like him more than everybody else. Jordan White was their 7th. Arceneaux also has an NFL catch (1!), but he has bounced around and played in Canada. These guys and the rest are certainly "futures" guys. I am interested that they never signed Patrick Turner back after all the WR injuries. I guess that Sparano hated him, but liked Gates. Not a ringing endorsement for Gates! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 This doesn't have anything to do with your point, but isn't "futures guys" a knock like UDFA? Is there a distinction or are you using it as a generic term for stiffs or specific "futures" guys? I would put Gates a step above that. Gates was a 4th rounder that the picked up off waivers. He has never been out of the leauge or off a roster. I think I like him more than everybody else. Jordan White was their 7th. Arceneaux also has an NFL catch (1!), but he has bounced around and played in Canada. These guys and the rest are certainly "futures" guys. I am interested that they never signed Patrick Turner back after all the WR injuries. I guess that Sparano hated him, but liked Gates. Not a ringing endorsement for Gates! Clyde Gates was a 4th rounder in the same sense that David Clowney was a 5th rounder. They were cut by their teams and signed to the Jets basically due to speed. I don't trust Gates to start. I can trust Cumby to start. that's my point that worst case, the Jets have more at TE than they do at WR. Gato asked me if they would take two TE my response is they might not take one. They have many holes. Te is far from the most dire. Yes they need a TE but they need alot of positions, some worse than others. The safety situation for example is probably worse than TE. the OLB situation is probably worse than TE. OG isn't great. And WR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Clyde Gates was a 4th rounder in the same sense that David Clowney was a 5th rounder. They were cut by their teams and signed to the Jets basically due to speed. I don't trust Gates to start. I can trust Cumby to start. that's my point that worst case, the Jets have more at TE than they do at WR. Gato asked me if they would take two TE my response is they might not take one. They have many holes. Te is far from the most dire. Yes they need a TE but they need alot of positions, some worse than others. The safety situation for example is probably worse than TE. the OLB situation is probably worse than TE. OG isn't great. And WR. I agree. I just was wondering if you were using "futures" as a catch-all or specific. More importantly is that a playmaking WR is easier to draft than a playmaking TE. They need a guy to put points on the board. A guy like Austin probably gives them more chance that Efiert/Ertz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.