Sal Paolantonio top 5 immediate impact draft prospects

[bitonti]

   Great they draft some OL with #9, now what?

 

If Chance Warmack  or Jon Cooper become "some OL" then agree it's a wasted pick. if you put 1 pro bowler in between 2 pro bowlers you have a super unit. 

[pedro55]

If Chance Warmack  or Jon Cooper become "some OL" then agree it's a wasted pick. if you put 1 pro bowler in between 2 pro bowlers you have a super unit. 

 

The Jets had Mangold & Dbrick , Faneca and Woody and TJ & Favre and Revis and still didn't win a division in 2008. They didn't even make the playoffs.

In 2009, they lucked into the playoffs with Sanchez and a top defense. The rushing attack was great and that OL helped to make that possible, but again, they finished 9-7 and needed luck to just make the playoffs that season.

 

   So even if Warmack or Cooper finally become another Dbrick,    it's not like it means they'll make the Jets some big time winner.   

Building 'in the trenches' with first round picks makes no sense considering the Jets did that with the draft and free agency and still haven't won a division.

[LAD_Brooklyn]

the first play of that youtube is a strong case for Sharrif Floyd in the top 5 btw. He swims Warford gets 2 yards upfield, then embarks on a journey (slams into Warford again) and chases down the RB running a screen. I know it's a negative play for the Florida defense but wow. 

 

as for Larry Warford he can be exposed in pass pro. his feet aren't great. He ran like a 5.6 and I know the 40s don't matter for guards but he's just not a plus athlete. He's gonna play in the league and whatever but not on the same level as Chance or Cooper. Justin Pugh is the 3rd best guard IMO.  I wouldn't cry if the Jets drafted Warford but please not in rd 2. 

 

He got swam  two yards up field on Warford? You know that was a screen play right? At :13 and you'll notice that was the intent with Warford throwing him forward off balance. Also to correct myself Warford is a 3x 1st team SEC player. Did you what the rest of the vid or did you just stop after creaming off Floyd play? . So I think it was wrong to say he was an internet sensation.

 

Where has he gotten expose in the pass game as he highly instinctive of a G. With good understanding in the passing game as he more than prove that in this game and Georgia game. As a prospect he provides better value than both Cooper and Warmack who are mocked in the top 15. If Cooper and Warmack are attributed as 95-6 overall prospects i would have no problem taking Warford in the 2nd as an 89 overall.

 

As for 40 time Warmack ran a 5.5 (5.49) at 15 lbs lighter. But then again like you said 4's don't matter.

[bitonti]

  As a prospect he provides better value than both Cooper and Warmack who are mocked in the top 15 

 

please read post 104 im coming around on Warford but there's a big difference between better value and better player.

[LAD_Brooklyn]

Oh, ok I didn't go that far at 1st.

 

there's a big difference between better value and better player

 

Totally true and in this case and any other I'm totally fine with taking the better value over prospects/item.

[JiFtheOracle]

Jahri Evans is the best guard playing in the game today, and possibly this decade. He was a 4th rounder. It's a position that it frequently filled by lower round picks. Nobody goes into a game thinking "Whoa, that team has a huge mismatch at the guard slot." It's important to have good ones, and nice to have great ones, but they're not swinging the balance into any one team's favor either way.

 

Carl Nicks in the 5th.

 

The Jets have had great Guard play for years wit Moore (UDFA) consistently grading out in the top tier.  What has that done for the Jets offense? 

[bitonti]

Carl Nicks in the 5th.

 

The Jets have had great Guard play for years wit Moore (UDFA) consistently grading out in the top tier.  What has that done for the Jets offense? 

 

2 AFC Champ game appearances? We know it wasn't because of great QB play. 

[JiFtheOracle]

2 AFC Champ game appearances? We know it wasn't because of great QB play. 

 

Meh, that was when the OL was stacked at every spot and that was just as more D than offense.  The offense still sucked.  It wont be that way this season, it wasnt that way the last 2...but we still had spectacular Guard play, which yielded some really sh*tty offense.  So lets go draft a Guard #9 overall!!!!

[bitonti]

   So lets go draft a Guard #9 overall!!!!

 

 

you say it like it's so absurd. Chance isn't gonna be on the board when the 20's hit. if the Jets pass he's gonna go probably 11 to SD, 16 to STL, 18 to DAL etc. His value is right in that area. the Jets are picking 9 not 1. He's a top 20 guy this isn't like some terrible reach you all are making it out to be. 

 

the fact that he's a top 20 guard means he's special. These guys are rarely graded this high. 

 

here's more Chance stuff

 

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/article-1/Warmack-plays-with-mean-streak/b788a808-7f60-4106-a1a9-e4269c01afa3

[slats]

you say it like it's so absurd. Chance isn't gonna be on the board when the 20's hit. if the Jets pass he's gonna go probably 11 to SD, 16 to STL, 18 to DAL etc. His value is right in that area. the Jets are picking 9 not 1. He's a top 20 guy this isn't like some terrible reach you all are making it out to be. 

 

the fact that he's a top 20 guard means he's special. These guys are rarely graded this high. 

 

here's more Chance stuff

 

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/article-1/Warmack-plays-with-mean-streak/b788a808-7f60-4106-a1a9-e4269c01afa3

Guards aren't special. You can find pro bowl guards in the undrafted free agent pool.

I get your safe pick argument, but taking a guard that high isn't safe, it's stupid. Safe is investing in blue chip dividend stocks, taking a guard is like putting your money in the mattress. Absolutely zero upside to the move.

[JiFtheOracle]

you say it like it's so absurd. Chance isn't gonna be on the board when the 20's hit. if the Jets pass he's gonna go probably 11 to SD, 16 to STL, 18 to DAL etc. His value is right in that area. the Jets are picking 9 not 1. He's a top 20 guy this isn't like some terrible reach you all are making it out to be. 

 

the fact that he's a top 20 guard means he's special. These guys are rarely graded this high. 

 

here's more Chance stuff

 

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/article-1/Warmack-plays-with-mean-streak/b788a808-7f60-4106-a1a9-e4269c01afa3

 

Taking a Guard with a top 10 pick, is in fact, absurd.  Which is why it never happens.  Except once very 28 years.

 

Its a terrible positional value and to me, thats more important than the talent of the prospect.  

 

We disagree.  Its cool.  But the NFL tends to agree with me, except once every 28 years. 

[bitonti]

Guards aren't special. You can find pro bowl guards in the undrafted free agent pool.

I get your safe pick argument, but taking a guard that high isn't safe, it's stupid. Safe is investing in blue chip dividend stocks, taking a guard is like putting your money in the mattress. Absolutely zero upside to the move.

 

My goal is not to root the Jets on to draft Chance warmack. My goal is to predict the draft. This guy Idzik we barely know him but so far he's shown zero appetite for risk. No upside you say? well i don't think this guy cares as much about upside as the fans or the last GM. 

[bitonti]

Taking a Guard with a top 10 pick, is in fact, absurd.  Which is why it never happens.  Except once very 28 years.

 

Its a terrible positional value and to me, thats more important than the talent of the prospect.  

 

We disagree.  Its cool.  But the NFL tends to agree with me, except once every 28 years. 

 

the Jets are top 10 but just barely. We are sitting here pretending like the Jets are in such a hot spot, they aren't. there's about 4 blue chip guys (2 DT and 2 OT) and the rest there's no difference between 5 and 35.  Mingo, Austin etc might play "more important" positions but they aren't blue chip prospects. 

[flgreen]

Guards aren't special. You can find pro bowl guards in the undrafted free agent pool.

I get your safe pick argument, but taking a guard that high isn't safe, it's stupid. Safe is investing in blue chip dividend stocks, taking a guard is like putting your money in the mattress. Absolutely zero upside to the move.

I general I agree with you.

 

This draft is so maddening for the Jets to be at 9.  In a lot of ways it reminds me of the 09 Sanchez draft.  I think most of the high picks went bust.

 

There just doesn’t seem to be a blue chip impact player there.  

[slats]

My goal is not to root the Jets on to draft Chance warmack. My goal is to predict the draft. This guy Idzik we barely know him but so far he's shown zero appetite for risk. No upside you say? well i don't think this guy cares as much about upside as the fans or the last GM.

Hopefully he's concerned with improving the team. Taking a guard at #9 overall doesn't do that.

I general I agree with you.

This draft is so maddening for the Jets to be at 9. In a lot of ways it reminds me of the 09 Sanchez draft. I think most of the high picks went bust.

There just doesn’t seem to be a blue chip impact player there.

No there's not. In fact, I'm kinda surprised that Tampa isn't willing to give the Jets #13 for Revis. Given the talent level in this years draft, that would seem to be a good move for them.

The Jets aren't in need of grunts, though. The OL is pretty good as is. Add a guard or tackle in the mid-rounds and they'll be fine.

What they need is speed. Playmakers on both sides of the ball. They'll have a choice between a WR or two, and a couple edge rushers at #9. Maybe even a QB. You have to gamble a little bit on greatness. You can't sit on your hands and take a guard there.

[Il Mostro]

I thought this draft was going to have plenty of decent WR deep into the draft(rounds 3-4).  do we really want to take a chance on this guy who weighs 185 wet wearing boots?(cue the argument for players drafted in the top 10 that weigh less than 190lbs....sorry tom)

 

 

Whoever takes Aaron Dobson (Marshall) will get the best, most impactful NFL receiver coming out of this draft.  He could go early in the 2nd round and will likely not last to the 3rd.

[bitonti]

Whoever takes Aaron Dobson (Marshall) will get the best, most impactful NFL receiver coming out of this draft.  He could go early in the 2nd round and will likely not last to the 3rd.

 

 

im glad you brought up Dobson. Who was his QB? Who was his opposite WR? 

 

  Tavon Austin played with Geno Smith and Steadman Bailey. I wonder if Dobson was on that WVU team instead of Marshall, what his draft stock would be...

[bitonti]

 You have to gamble a little bit on greatness. You can't sit on your hands and take a guard there.

 

So far, Idzik has shown no gamble whatsoever. 

[Il Mostro]

im glad you brought up Dobson. Who was his QB? Who was his opposite WR? 

 

  Tavon Austin played with Geno Smith and Steadman Bailey. I wonder if Dobson was on that WVU team instead of Marshall, what his draft stock would be...

 

 

Through the roof.  

[slats]

So far, Idzik has shown no gamble whatsoever. 

You were more correct when you said we don't know anything about the guy. What opportunities has he had? Not making expensive free agent moves =/= taking a guard #9 overall.

Taking a guard there is a chickensh*t move. I'm all for smart and pragmatic, but not chickensh*t.

[T0mShane]

im glad you brought up Dobson. Who was his QB? Who was his opposite WR?

Tavon Austin played with Geno Smith and Steadman Bailey. I wonder if Dobson was on that WVU team instead of Marshall, what his draft stock would be...

You know, I wonder what Austin's stats would look like if he played Marshall's schedule. I'm sure Ohio U, Gardner-Webb, and Florida A&I have oodles of NFL prospects on them.

[flgreen]

Hopefully he's concerned with improving the team. Taking a guard at #9 overall doesn't do that.

No there's not. In fact, I'm kinda surprised that Tampa isn't willing to give the Jets #13 for Revis. Given the talent level in this years draft, that would seem to be a good move for them.

The Jets aren't in need of grunts, though. The OL is pretty good as is. Add a guard or tackle in the mid-rounds and they'll be fine.

What they need is speed. Playmakers on both sides of the ball. They'll have a choice between a WR or two, and a couple edge rushers at #9. Maybe even a QB. You have to gamble a little bit on greatness. You can't sit on your hands and take a guard there.

My optimum situation here would be to trade out of 9 (Don’t know if that’s possible, can’t imagine why anyone would trade up in this draft)  and take Hunt in the middle of the 1st 

[bitonti]

 

Taking a guard there is a chickensh*t move. I'm all for smart and pragmatic, but not chickensh*t.

 

this remark is disparaging to the type of career Chance Warmack has had so far. He was the star of the national championship game. 

[whodeawhodat]

The Jets had Mangold & Dbrick , Faneca and Woody and TJ & Favre and Revis and still didn't win a division in 2008. They didn't even make the playoffs.

In 2009, they lucked into the playoffs with Sanchez and a top defense. The rushing attack was great and that OL helped to make that possible, but again, they finished 9-7 and needed luck to just make the playoffs that season.

 

   So even if Warmack or Cooper finally become another Dbrick,    it's not like it means they'll make the Jets some big time winner.   

Building 'in the trenches' with first round picks makes no sense considering the Jets did that with the draft and free agency and still haven't won a division.

In all fairness, they were a VERY good team until Farve got injured.  It all starts up front and I like the idea of us investing in OL this year.

[Greenseed4]

Taking a guard there is a chickensh*t move. I'm all for smart and pragmatic, but not chickensh*t.

 

I agree. 

 

Who would you suggest to be a smart/pragmatic draft pick, that at the same time would be "edgy" enough to not be considered chickensh*t?

[Damaged89]

I agree. 

 

Who would you suggest to be a smart/pragmatic draft pick, that at the same time would be "edgy" enough to not be considered chickensh*t?

 

 

IMO If the best pass rusher on their board falls to 9, that would be a pragmatic move while still addressing a position that has more value than a guard.  Mingo or Jordan have more risk attached to them than Warmack but the upside of those picks is considerably higher.  

 

Same logic applies to Geno Smith.  If you think he can be an upper echelon QB you don't eschew that for a safer pick.

[whodeawhodat]

For ****s sake, I don't even know why everyone is arguing about this.  We do not need immediate impact players.  We need building blocks in place for next year.  Sanchez/Revis will be off the books and will allow us to pay 5 players, maybe some of the ones who are settling for 1 year deals in this collusion market.

[bitonti]

IMO If the best pass rusher on their board falls to 9, that would be a pragmatic move while still addressing a position that has more value than a guard.  Mingo or Jordan have more risk attached to them than Warmack but the upside of those picks is considerably higher.  

 

Same logic applies to Geno Smith.  If you think he can be an upper echelon QB you don't eschew that for a safer pick.

 

if your board has Chance graded higher than Geno and you take the worser prospect because of positional need, that's not staying true to the board. 

That's what I'm predicting, the Jets take the best player on their board.

[JiFtheOracle]

So far, Idzik has shown no gamble whatsoever. 

 

Why do you keep saying that?  He really hasnt done sh*t.  And what he had done, all has a little gamble involved.  Signing old, injury riddled players, is gambling on their health.  Flirting with trading a HOF'er/best player on your team for picks, is gambling because that pick is an unknown.  It could be a complete and utter bust. Thats a risky gamble.

[bitonti]

Why do you keep saying that?  He really hasnt done sh*t.  And what he had done, all has a little gamble involved.  Signing old, injury riddled players, is gambling on their health.  Flirting with trading a HOF'er/best player on your team for picks, is gambling because that pick is an unknown.  It could be a complete and utter bust. Thats a risky gamble.

 

He didn't actually make that gamble tho. Revis is on the team because he hasn't gotten what he wants in return. Pragmatic.  

 

The free agent signings, bottom line are a bunch of low price moves. You literally can't find cheaper players than these. Low price=low risk. 

 

Like i said earlier in the thread we are arguing over safety school picks. Hopefully someone blue chip falls and they scoop him up. But if they don't the team could do alot worse than Chance Warmack. I don't get the hate. Especially when the starting guards are Vlad and Colon. they might get 1 useful season out of those 2 players. 

[Il Mostro]

You know, I wonder what Austin's stats would look like if he played Marshall's schedule. I'm sure Ohio U, Gardner-Webb, and Florida A&I have oodles of NFL prospects on them.

 

 

Good thinking.  I am glad we didn't waste our time drafting small school slackers like Jerry Rice and Randy Moss.  

[Damaged89]

if your board has Chance graded higher than Geno and you take the worser prospect because of positional need, that's not staying true to the board. 

That's what I'm predicting, the Jets take the best player on their board.

 

 

Say Warmack is number one on the board and they have Smith at four.  Both are available at nine.  What do you think Idzik does?

[JiFtheOracle]

He didn't actually make that gamble tho. Revis is on the team because he hasn't gotten what he wants in return. Pragmatic.  

 

The free agent signings, bottom line are a bunch of low price moves. You literally can't find cheaper players than these. Low price=low risk. 

 

Like i said earlier in the thread we are arguing over safety school picks. Hopefully someone blue chip falls and they scoop him up. But if they don't the team could do alot worse than Chance Warmack. I don't get the hate. Especially when the starting guards are Vlad and Colon. they might get 1 useful season out of those 2 players. 

 

Actually, we are arguing over the blue chippers.  Austin vs. Warmack.  Its just evolved into more.

 

I'm not against Warmack as a prospect.  If we took him, fine.  Its probably a very safe and easy pick to make but its not what I would do.  That's all.

[bitonti]

Say Warmack is number one on the board and they have Smith at four.  Both are available at nine.  What do you think Idzik does?

 

idzik strikes me as a "stick to his board" type of guy. 

[faba]

This is theold  philosophy- take the best available player regardless of position or need. Do not reach to try to fill your team out with less worthy a player -going by your due diligence