the GM shouldn't undercut the HC on QB

[bitonti]

2012:

 

Seattle's 3rd pre-season game was August 26th.

 

Russell Wilson announced as starter August 27th, after the 3rd pre-season game, which you said is "completely unprecedented" above.

 

Unprecedented? It just happened - quite famously - just last season.  

 

the Jets haven't announced a starter, and they are after that point... going in to preseason game 4. try to find an example of that. if you dare.

[Integrity28]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000222112/article/new-york-jets-will-decide-qb-together-john-idzik-says

 

 

"My role? Well, I have a pretty big role in that," Idzik said when asked about the starting quarterback decision, via the Associated Press.

"When you look at who's going to play, Rex and I are going to talk about that freely," Idzik said. "And I like to believe that that has been the case so far, that if you put in that time and effort, when you make the decision, it's a 'we' decision. It's not one individual. It's not someone drops the gavel and does something counter to what the Jets want to do. We're all pulling the same direction."

It won't just be an Idzik and Ryan decision either, Idzik plans on involving almost every offensive mind on the coaching staff.

"It's a collaborative effort, guys," Idzik said, via the New York Post. "There's input from our offensive staff. There's input from our scouts. There's input from, of course, me and Rex. We sit down and talk about this on a daily basis. I think when we reach the culmination of gathering all that stuff, deciphering it and making the decision that it's not a surprise."

 

 

Like I said:

 

 

Not always, no it isn't.

 

Your second sentence is very cute, and idealistic, but it's a joke. Multi-million dollar franchises are typically run out of joint decision-making, even ones not called the Jets. You are making it sound as if Idzik said he's picking the final roster and stripping Rex of all authority, he didn't say this, and you are making it sound as if this is the only time a GM has ever influenced a roster decision - which is a baffling conclusion for you to reach.

 

This whole thread is gross. Just plain disgusting gross grossness. 

 

Idzik made it clear that he's new, and the situation at QB is going to be looked at by the whole organization. Everything extrapolated from that is spin. You are chest-thumping about a conclusion that you reach - Idzik stripped Rex of roster control - without any evidence of that actually happening. You sound absurd.

 

Idzik basically said - we are ALL going to look at the QB spot - because hell, it needs it. The fans wanted it. They are getting it.

 

There is absolutely zero evidence that Idzik is over-riding Rex. Maybe he is, but it is not a given, and thus your argument and bias are unfounded. 

 

Put a sock in it. You've now got this and another thread trending towards this argument for no good reason.

[bitonti]

What evidence do you have that Idzik is making the decision on the starter- he said it would be  a joint decision . Just because you hate Geno Smith and Idzik

 

It shouldn't be a joint decision. it should the the HC's decision. Football is a dictatorship not a democracy. 

 

how many other teams have GMs and HC's making joint lineup decisions ?

[Sperm Edwards]

the Jets haven't announced a starter, and they are after that point... going in to preseason game 4. try to find an example of that. if you dare.

 

Wilson, the winner, was healthy.  So was the loser.  It is not the same thing since the likely winner, Sanchez, is injured and they don't know if he'll be available for week 1 yet. 

 

You said it was completely unprecedented in the history of the NFL to not announce a starter by the 3rd pre-season game.  

 

You were wrong.  

 

Again.

[Integrity28]

Call on QB belongs to Rex, not Idzik

 

 

Posted by Darin Gantt on August 27, 2013, 8:40 AM EDT

 

 

Rex RyanAP

 

One of the most obvious points of contention between the Jets’ present and future will be their quarterback decision.

 

 

But according to a report by Manish Mehta of the New York Daily News, (who may or may not have given the governor a harumph), the call on whether Mark Sanchez or Geno Smith starts will be made by coach Rex Ryan, not new General Manager John Idzik.

 

 

“I’m sure John will have his say,” a team source said. “But at the end of the day, Rex will consult his coaches and make the decision.”

 

 

Of course, there are deep organizational implications to either decision.

 

 

Ryan, who enters the season on thin ice, will obviously be more inclined to go with Sanchez. He’s seen the former first-rounder hold the wheel for a team that went to two AFC Championship Games. He knows what he can do. Smith’s a complete unknown, and may be wholly unprepared to start, even if Idzik were to lean on Ryan to make that decision.

 

 

Idzik said at the start of camp he’d have a “pretty big role” in deciding the quarterback, but ultimately, would cede that call to Ryan.

 

 

“John and I are really like shoulder-to-shoulder in decisions that we make,” Ryan said Monday. “We are side-by-side on every decision that goes into it-who plays, who’s making the team, all those type of things, . . . We are side-by-side with each other.”

 

 

Of course, playing Sanchez in the fourth quarter of a preseason game behind backup linemen and getting him hurt might complicate matters, since it’s unclear if his bruised shoulder would allow him to play.

 

 

But given the unstable state of the Jets, it might all be a moot point, and Idzik might simply be letting Ryan make one last important call, before what looks like an inevitable mess this season.

 

 

LOL

[Matt39]

So, in other words, you have nothing.

Well no. I don't hve an inside information from Florham Park. But history shows this situation looks like a coach who's going to be fired. Coaches don't lose it in preseason press conferences.

[CTM]

This is a great way to not address the topic at hand.

 

I have 2 simple questions for Idzik fans:

1) Why is it ok for John Idzik to publicly tell the media that the HC won't get to pick the QB

2)  It's going into preseason week 4 and they still haven't picked a starter. how is this acceptable?

 

1) Cause his HC is a DC whose role as HC is farce and publicly admits to not even watching the offense, Not mention, shamefully has a tattoo of his wife wearing nothing but a Sanchez jersey. Why is THAT OK?

2) Have you seen Sanchez play the last 4 years? It'd be gross negligence to not give Geno every chance to win.

[dbatesman]

G.O.A.T.

[Integrity28]

It shouldn't be a joint decision. it should the the HC's decision. Football is a dictatorship not a democracy. 

 

how many other teams have GMs and HC's making joint lineup decisions ?

 

 

PFFTT... How about you answer a question... How many other teams don't have GM's and HC's and scouting departments and position coaches influencing lineup decisions?

 

What a joke.

[bitonti]

PFFTT... How about you answer a question... How many other teams don't have GM's and HC's and scouting departments and position coaches influencing lineup decisions?

 

What a joke.

 

Ill go with all of em except maybe the Cowboys. And the Raiders before Al davis died. teams don't usually have the GM and the HC working 'Side by side' to pick a starting QB. usually the GM does his job and the HC does his. This joint effort BS is also known as undercutting the HC in public. 

 

here's an idea if John Idzik picked a good QB instead of Geno, Rex would have picked him weeks ago. Mark has been better basically the whole time. This whole thing is an exercise designed for Geno to win. And he choked it away. Great pick guy. Even Matt Simms would be better than Geno right now. 

[faba]

It shouldn't be a joint decision. it should the the HC's decision. Football is a dictatorship not a democracy. 

 

how many other teams have GMs and HC's making joint lineup decisions ?

I have it on good sources Idzik told Rex to make Vlad the starter at guard

[Sperm Edwards]

It shouldn't be a joint decision. it should the the HC's decision. Football is a dictatorship not a democracy. 

 

how many other teams have GMs and HC's making joint lineup decisions ?

 

I'm quite sure that in 2004 Coughlin didn't want to bench his starting QB, while the team was 5-3 with Warner, so unready Eli Manning could take his lumps.

 

Accorsi gave up the sun and the moon to trade Rivers for Eli on draft day, and he wasn't going to watch his prize ride the bench until December even if it meant deep-sixing Coughlin's shot at the playoffs in his first year in NY.

[flgreen]

I don't know if you heard but Vlad is starting. I'm red hot right now. 

 

Got to give ya that one Bit.  Your on fire.  Who knows, maybe Vernon will start his come back this week  

[Bleedin Green]

Wilson, the winner, was healthy.  So was the loser.  It is not the same thing since the likely winner, Sanchez, is injured and they don't know if he'll be available for week 1 yet. 

 

You said it was completely unprecedented in the history of the NFL to not announce a starter by the 3rd pre-season game.  

 

You were wrong.  

 

Again.

 

Yeah, but this is currently like a whole day later than the Seahawks made their announcement last year! OMG!!!

[Integrity28]

Ill go with all of em except maybe the Cowboys. And the Raiders before Al davis died. teams don't usually have the GM and the HC working 'Side by side' to pick a starting QB. usually the GM does his job and the HC does his. This joint effort BS is also known as undercutting the HC in public. 

 

So, yeah... trolling at this point.

[dbatesman]

Would firing John Idzik make the team better?

[CTM]

this is clearly a function of having a head coach that is disinterested in the offense combined with what is very likely a perverse sexual attraction from an outed pervert. Frankly, I would be concerned if Idzik WASN'T intervening..

 

This is not a normal scenario, at all

[Bleedin Green]

Well no. I don't hve an inside information from Florham Park. But history shows this situation looks like a coach who's going to be fired. Coaches don't lose it in preseason press conferences.

 

I think there's a good chance Rex will be done soon, but I'm guessing they let him ride out the season, barring any sort of complete meltdown that simply drives the team to the point of wanting Rex out of the building (which means above and beyond anything we've seen from Rex previously).  Whatever version of the story you want to believe, in the end Idzik still has Rex here for his first year on the job, and that whole decision would seem even more odd if the guy isn't getting at least a full year.

 

Besides, I doubt Mornhinweg would be considered a viable candidate as the Jets next full-time HC, so why even bother?  If anything, the Jets might actually be interested in trying to retain him as their OC, which would be more likely possible if he was simply keeping that position rather than being promoted and subsequently demoted.

[bitonti]

Yeah, but this is currently like a whole day later than the Seahawks made their announcement last year! OMG!!!

 

Is there an announcement planned for today? or tomorrow? ladies and gentlemen, the world's longest and worst QB competition. and Jets fans think it's great. 

[whodeawhodat]

Ill go with all of em except maybe the Cowboys. And the Raiders before Al davis died. teams don't usually have the GM and the HC working 'Side by side' to pick a starting QB. usually the GM does his job and the HC does his. This joint effort BS is also known as undercutting the HC in public. 

 

here's an idea if John Idzik picked a good QB instead of Geno, Rex would have picked him weeks ago. Mark has been better basically the whole time. This whole thing is an exercise designed for Geno to win. And he choked it away. Great pick guy. Even Matt Simms would be better than Geno right now. 

 

Not to dog pile on you Bit but I think that GMs and HCs work a lot closer than you are giving them credit for.

[Bleedin Green]

So I wonder bit, any thoughts on the article flgreen posted?

[dbatesman]

Is there an announcement planned for today? or tomorrow? ladies and gentlemen, the world's longest and worst QB competition. and Jets fans think it's great.

link plz

[bitonti]

I'm quite sure that in 2004 Coughlin didn't want to bench his starting QB, while the team was 5-3 with Warner, so unready Eli Manning could take his lumps.

 

Accorsi gave up the sun and the moon to trade Rivers for Eli on draft day, and he wasn't going to watch his prize ride the bench until December even if it meant deep-sixing Coughlin's shot at the playoffs in his first year in NY.

 

Coughlin was allowed to pick a starter in preseason, in a normal amount of time.

 

After starting the season 5–2, the 2004 Giants finished 6–10.  

[faba]

What Jet fan thinks our QB uncertainty is great- we all wish we had a legitmate NFL QB-

[whodeawhodat]

Is there an announcement planned for today? or tomorrow? ladies and gentlemen, the world's longest and worst QB competition. and Jets fans think it's great. 

 

I dont think it is or anyone else thinks its great but we all knew what we were headed into this season.  There was no QB to trade up and draft and even if there was, we have a ton of holes on this team to address. We will see what we have this year and go into next year with a ton of cap room and some extra compensatory picks due to losing FAs. 

[Bleedin Green]

Coughlin was allowed to pick a starter in preseason, in a normal amount of time.

 

After starting the season 5–2, the 2004 Giants finished 6–10.  

 

So a GM forcing his HC to switch QBs in the midst of a winning season, which subsequently goes down the toilet, is... better?  Intriguing.

[bitonti]

So I wonder bit, any thoughts on the article flgreen posted?

 

 If this is all Rex than I stand corrected and he should be fired.

 

I don't believe that Rex, or any professional head coach, would want a preseason QB competition to go on this long. this is unusual, would you admit that much ? 

[Integrity28]

this is clearly a function of having a head coach that is disinterested in the offense combined with what is very likely a perverse sexual attraction from an outed pervert. Frankly, I would be concerned if Idzik WASN'T intervening..

 

This is not a normal scenario, at all

 

Normal: you finding a way to bring up where the penis goes

[Sperm Edwards]

this is clearly a function of having a head coach that is disinterested in the offense combined with what is very likely a perverse sexual attraction from an outed pervert. Frankly, I would be concerned if Idzik WASN'T intervening..

 

This is not a normal scenario, at all

There's that as well.

 

There is ZERO chance that Rex would make this decision all by himself anyway.  It was always going to be a group effort, as I'm sure it is with any QB competition where the HC's expertise is on the other side of the ball.

 

The QB coach and OC are the most qualified to make the decision.  Then Rex will make the ultimate decision.  Idzik has a right to know what he's basing the decision on, as he is Rex's boss.  It doesn't mean he's overruling Rex.  He wants to be in on the decision so he can see his HC's thought process.  The coming season he may need to make a coaching change and if so would want to learn as much about the coach he's got as he can.

 

I'm sure this is totally normal in a situation like this.

[Integrity28]

 If this is all Rex than I stand corrected and he should be fired.

 

I don't believe that Rex, or any professional head coach, would want a preseason QB competition to go on this long. this is unusual, would you admit that much ? 

 

Did you ever stop for a moment and consider that they were going to name a QB after the week 3 game, but Mark's injury muddled that opportunity for them? Maybe? Just maybe?

 

Unreal.

[Sperm Edwards]

Coughlin was allowed to pick a starter in preseason, in a normal amount of time.

 

After starting the season 5–2, the 2004 Giants finished 6–10.  

 

They finished so poorly because he went with an unready rookie QB.  I doubt very much that was Coughlin's call.  They were 5-3 when they made the switch and behind Eli they finished 1-7.

 

There is no way that was Coughlin's decision while they were still VERY much in the playoff hunt at mid-season.  He was a new HC who was just fired from his prior job and wasn't going to fall on his sword for the greater glory of Eli Manning.  

 

That was the GM meddling in who starts.  Unprecedented my ass.

[Integrity28]

There's that as well.

 

There is ZERO chance that Rex would make this decision all by himself anyway.  It was always going to be a group effort, as I'm sure it is with any QB competition where the HC's expertise is on the other side of the ball.

 

The QB coach and OC are the most qualified to make the decision.  Then Rex will make the ultimate decision.  Idzik has a right to know what he's basing the decision on, as he is Rex's boss.  It doesn't mean he's overruling Rex.  He wants to be in on the decision so he can see his HC's thought process.  The coming season he may need to make a coaching change and if so would want to learn as much about the coach he's got as he can.

 

I'm sure this is totally normal in a situation like this.

 

 

Yep. I'm 100% positive that a general manager wanting to manage his subordinates is 100% normal in 100% of situations, especially where it concerns having involvement in major directional changes of the entire organization - and the overarching product.

[kay_gee]

OMFG. this competition has always been about perception: giving the appearance that Geno has a legit chance to win the job, prior to watching Geno in preseason, because fans hate Sanchez so much. As we've seen, Geno is not ready, most people seem to think it's better if Sanchez starts the first few games.

Unfortunately, any formal announcement has been put on hold because Sanchez finally took

a hit he didn't immediately get up from.

[bitonti]

They finished so poorly because he went with an unready rookie QB.  I doubt very much that was Coughlin's call.  They were 5-3 when they made the switch and behind Eli they finished 1-7.

 

There is no way that was Coughlin's decision while they were still VERY much in the playoff hunt at mid-season.  He was a new HC who was just fired from his prior job and wasn't going to fall on his sword for the greater glory of Eli Manning.  

 

That was the GM meddling in who starts.  Unprecedented my ass.

 

you've proven that it's got precedent but you've also proven that GM's interfering with HC's on lineup decisions is a bad idea. Thanks.  

[Sperm Edwards]

Did you ever stop for a moment and consider that they were going to name a QB after the week 3 game, but Mark's injury muddled that opportunity for them? Maybe? Just maybe?

 

Unreal.

 

 

Funniest thing is this is obviously Rex's call.  Everyone on the team (any who have made even a single comment about it) has acknowledged it and above there was an article posted that "leaked" as much as well.  There are zero leaks to the contrary that this is secretly Idzik forcing Rex to do something against his will.  There has been no one who has ever said that Rex can't start who he wants to start.  The only existing evidence is that which points the final decision solely at Rex's feet.

 

Rex likes Sanchez personally, but there is no way he would prefer Sanchez to a QB who is just flat-out better.  So they have a competition.  And the final say goes to Rex who wants to be DAMN sure he makes the correct choice while he's (allegedly) a lame duck coach.

 

So it is REX who has delayed the announcement (quite colorfully, at that).  But since Bit likes Rex and hates Idzik, it must be Idzik's fault and Rex must be blameless.