Richardson vs. Revis

[bitonti]

Wow, one whole bad game?  I guess they might as well cut him right now, huh?

 

Hate to break it to you, but if that was the barometer for a player's worth, your boy Revis would have been making the vet minimum after his start to the 2010 season, assuming he wasn't simply out of the league.

 

Oh, and as a quick aside, Cro's contract was for $8 million / year (and actually, the Jets will have paid him even less than that if he is cut, traded or restructures after this season).  That is half of what Revis is getting paid.

 

Cromartie has no technique or brains at the position. He's all speed. The second he loses that speed, he's done. We may have seen it happen. Read the link i posted, he was terrible. Half as much as Revis and not even half as good.

[TnT]

people talk about "worth the money" here's a question is Cro worth the money? Cause that dude blew last week.

http://turnonthejets.com/2013/09/new-york-jets-secondary-grade-sheet-week-one/#more-17062

Yes...he is. He just wasnt in that game.

If he duplicates last years performance...hes plenty worth his pay.

For

A) Being the best CB on the roster, and

B ) Leaving us with Kyle/Dee without him.

Cro is a little banged up, he'll be fine.

[jetsjetsjetss]

Cromartie has no technique or brains at the position. He's all speed. The second he loses that speed, he's done. We may have seen it happen. Read the link i posted, he was terrible. Half as much as Revis and not even half as good.

 

i dont agree with the no technique part

 

and ill say it again. Vincent jackson is to big and to strong to cover one on one. The best corner in the league would have trouble putting him on the "island"

[SMC]

people talk about "worth the money" here's a question is Cro worth the money? Cause that dude blew last week.

http://turnonthejets.com/2013/09/new-york-jets-secondary-grade-sheet-week-one/#more-17062

Even if Cro is not worth $8m, that doesn't make Revis worth $16m.

However, Cro is paid comparable to other corners.

This is only any issue because of the salary cap.

[bitonti]

Even if Cro is not worth $8m, that doesn't make Revis worth $16m.

However, Cro is paid comparable to other corners.

This is only any issue because of the salary cap.

 

that's fair just pointing out alot of people said they didn't need Revis cause Cro was so awesome, the dude looked worse than the rookie. Saying VJ is big and scary isn't really an excuse.

[bitonti]

i dont agree with the no technique part

 

read that link he never jams and there's screen caps to prove it

[bitonti]

 Cro is a little banged up, he'll be fine.

 

we hope. 

 

there's also this theory that improved pass rush (i.e. Richardson) could make the secondary be better... VJ had 154 yards and while Richardson was beasting the idea that a DT is more valuable than a CB is wishful thinking in this league.

[TnT]

Cromartie has no technique or brains at the position. He's all speed. The second he loses that speed, he's done. We may have seen it happen. Read the link i posted, he was terrible. Half as much as Revis and not even half as good.

Have to disagree Bit.

Kyle Wilson has speed...

Cro has an extra gear with the ball in the air.

Thats why he gets a pass some times when his aggressiveness gets him in trouble...its just the CB he is.

Cro is DEF playing for a new contract...9 kids/financial advisor...his net worth flashed before his eyes...like I said, he's dinged up...he'll bounce back.

[jetsjetsjetss]

read that link he never jams and there's screen caps to prove it

 

i think he didnt jam for this because of what i said about vincent jackson

 

you cant jam him. Cro would get thrown to the ground

[TnT]

read that link he never jams and there's screen caps to prove it

Cro is one of the most physical CB's at the line...thats why we got him for what we did...his performance dropped off in SD when they switch to a zone coverage...lol...HES DINGED UP!

[Larz]

this thread is called Richardson vs Revis. Who would you rather have straight up? I don't want to talk about who will be better in 5 years or who is the better value. You guys all made a dumb assessment and I am correcting you. That's my agenda. You can thank me later.

 

do I get to consider contract, health and chances of leaving the team in 2 years ?

 

and you can tell us what idzik did to you, we're all friends here

[bitonti]

do I get to consider contract, health and chances of leaving the team in 2 years ?

 

and you can tell us what idzik did to you, we're all friends here

 

sure you can consider that you can also consider the fact that Sheldon won't be going against Gabe Carimi every week. 

 

since you seem to care... my agenda? I've been a Jets fan my whole life and I supported the team as homertastically as possible. trying something different now. Call it the reverse jinx if you will. The early results have been great. It's got nothing to do with Idzik the man. I've never met him and probably couldn't pick him out of a lineup of generic white dudes.

 

I just can't be optimistic about the Jets anymore.  people bring up Drob, Gholston or whatever, that was a different mindset. I've seen the donkey kong kill screen. 

[Bleedin Green]

Cromartie has no technique or brains at the position. He's all speed. The second he loses that speed, he's done. We may have seen it happen. Read the link i posted, he was terrible. Half as much as Revis and not even half as good.

 

It was one game.  I find it curious how you disregard the fact that he's coming off of a Pro Bowl season considering what such great value things like that seem to carry for the players you support.  Meanwhile, Revis has had games in his career that were even worse than that.  Again, I refer you back to his performance at the start of 2010, which was absolutely awful.

 

Besides, 2 Cromarties >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  1 Revis and 1 UDFA (which would still cost more) and it's not even close.

[T0mShane]

Cromartie has never been able to handle physical wideouts. Brandon Marshall once hung 21 catches on him in a game. Anyone who thought that VJax wasn't going to drag Cro up and down the field wasn't paying attention.

[SMC]

Cromartie has never been able to handle physical wideouts. Brandon Marshall once hung 21 catches on him in a game. Anyone who thought that VJax wasn't going to drag Cro up and down the field wasn't paying attention.

Tom is in the zone.

Big physical WRs have always been a bad matchup for Cro

[bitonti]

 Meanwhile, Revis has had games in his career that were even worse than that. 

 

when did anyone hang 154 yards on Revis? 

 

Did you read the link its got screen caps and evidence that points to Cro being done, not to just one a bad game. 

 

saying 2 cros > 1 revis is like saying 2 Fords are better than 1 Ferrari. It's not true.

[BroadwayJoe12]

when did anyone hang 154 yards on Revis? 

 

Did you read the link its got screen caps and evidence that points to Cro being done, not to just one a bad game. 

 

saying 2 cros > 1 revis is like saying 2 Fords are better than 1 Ferrari. It's not true.

 

I'll take two Ford GT40s over a ferrari most days of the week, just as I'd take two Cros over one Revis any day of the week.

 

And you're forgetting the rest of the equation: it's not just two Cros against one Revis, it's two Cros against one Revis and a JAG or less than a JAG.  In that scenario, sure, you can avoid revis all game long and abuse that other corner, because with a $16-$19 million cap hit, teams aren't forking over more money for that second cb slot.

[bitonti]

I'll take two Ford GT40s over a ferrari most days of the week, just as I'd take two Cros over one Revis any day of the week.

 

And you're forgetting the rest of the equation: it's not just two Cros against one Revis, it's two Cros against one Revis and a JAG or less than a JAG.  In that scenario, sure, you can avoid revis all game long and abuse that other corner, because with a $16-$19 million cap hit, teams aren't forking over more money for that second cb slot.

 

the Ford GT40 is kinda cherry picking Fords. they sell for like multiple millions.

 

Cro is more like a Mustang with 150,000 miles. 

[Doggin94it]

Revis is a huge asset to have when you are playing a team like Detroit, or Cincinnati, or Arizona - teams who run out dominant WRs with middling to weak secondary targets and whose offenses are predicated on forcing the defense to overcommitting to defend a Megatron/Green/Fitzgerald, who open up space for lesser players and beat double teams themselves.  Against those teams, you put Revis on the number 1, and the opposing offense falls apart, because everyone else is stuck when the D can pay attention to them. 

 

Revis is wasted against a team like the Jets - who don't have a great receiver that you need an all-time great CB to wipe out - and next to useless against teams like Atlanta, NO, GB, Dallas, NYG or Denver, who have balanced attacks with multiple "top" targets and who can simply lean on their other pass catchers while Revis eliminates one.  "Put Revis on Deymarius Thomas?  OK, we'll just throw to Welker, Decker, and Julius Thomas all day.  Damn . . . we sure are screwed."

 

Tampa will kick Carolina's ass as a result; with Revis on Smith, the rest of the D can focus on bottling up Newton, doubling Olsen, and stopping the run.  But they play Atlanta and NO twice a year, and Revis has limited value there.  And playoff offenses tend to be more multiple than one-WR dominant.  It is what it is.

[Bleedin Green]

when did anyone hang 154 yards on Revis? 

 

Did you read the link its got screen caps and evidence that points to Cro being done, not to just one a bad game. 

 

saying 2 cros > 1 revis is like saying 2 Fords are better than 1 Ferrari. It's not true.

 

troll-bit is trolling

 

that's quite possibly the most nonsensical comparison ever made on this board.  of course it also completely ignores half of the point that was made, although that isn't particularly shocking considering that's your #1 go-to move.

[bitonti]

troll-bit is trolling

 

that's quite possibly the most nonsensical comparison ever made on this board.  of course it also completely ignores half of the point that was made, although that isn't particularly shocking considering that's your #1 go-to move.

 

so you didn't answer my question when has anyone hung 154 yards on Revis? 

 

you also are ignoring Cro's play last week because it doesn't fit your agenda. Read this link... if you dare. 

 

http://turnonthejets.com/2013/09/new-york-jets-secondary-grade-sheet-week-one/#more-17062

[bitonti]

Revis is a huge asset to have when you are playing a team like Detroit, or Cincinnati, or Arizona - teams who run out dominant WRs with middling to weak secondary targets and whose offenses are predicated on forcing the defense to overcommitting to defend a Megatron/Green/Fitzgerald, who open up space for lesser players and beat double teams themselves.  Against those teams, you put Revis on the number 1, and the opposing offense falls apart, because everyone else is stuck when the D can pay attention to them. 

 

Revis is wasted against a team like the Jets - who don't have a great receiver that you need an all-time great CB to wipe out - and next to useless against teams like Atlanta, NO, GB, Dallas, NYG or Denver, who have balanced attacks with multiple "top" targets and who can simply lean on their other pass catchers while Revis eliminates one.  "Put Revis on Deymarius Thomas?  OK, we'll just throw to Welker, Decker, and Julius Thomas all day.  Damn . . . we sure are screwed."

 

Tampa will kick Carolina's ass as a result; with Revis on Smith, the rest of the D can focus on bottling up Newton, doubling Olsen, and stopping the run.  But they play Atlanta and NO twice a year, and Revis has limited value there.  And playoff offenses tend to be more multiple than one-WR dominant.  It is what it is.

 

this is a fine post to make if everyone is healthy. When Roddy White goes down with an ankle sprain (as is what happening now), Revis can shadow Julio Jones. 

[BroadwayJoe12]

the Ford GT40 is kinda cherry picking Fords. they sell for like multiple millions.

 

Cro is more like a Mustang with 150,000 miles. 

 

So the better question would be, would you rather have eight Ford GT40s or one Revis?  So, if logic holds up, no one is choosing Revis, ipso facto, Richardson it is.

[BroadwayJoe12]

this is a fine post to make if everyone is healthy. When Roddy White goes down with an ankle sprain (as is what happening now), Revis can shadow Julio Jones. 

 

That's also true, but a finer point would be, if I choose two Cros over Revis and both Revis and Cro go down, I still have one Cro and you're stuck with no Revis'. Point, two Cros.  If you're paying attention the tally is now Two Cros - 3 points...... One Revis - 0 points.  

[Doggin94it]

this is a fine post to make if everyone is healthy. When Roddy White goes down with an ankle sprain (as is what happening now), Revis can shadow Julio Jones. 

 

LOL.  So your considered opinion is "I should pay 1 CB 16M (instead of 2 CBs 8M each, or a CB 8M, a second CB 5M, and spend more money on my safeties and other pass D contributors who will allow me to cover more than 1 target well) because who knows, there might be an injury?"

 

That doesn't sound like a wise choice.

[Sperm Edwards]

So now Cromartie is a below-average CB? 

 

Unbelievable the depths people will sink to in order to serve their agendas.

[bitonti]

you guys are assuming Cro is being paid half as much as Revis he is therefore half as good. He wasn't even as good as Milliner last week. I don't think he's 10% of Revis. He could have just gone over the hill.  we could be getting into territory where Kyle Wilson and Darren Walls are better than Cro. And i'm not joking. 

[bitonti]

So now Cromartie is a below-average CB? 

 

Unbelievable the depths people will sink to in order to serve their agendas.

 

guys get old it happens. The difference between Cro and Revis is that Cro uses his athleticism and Revis uses his brains.  Revis never had elite athleticism.

[Doggin94it]

this is a fine post to make if everyone is healthy. When Roddy White goes down with an ankle sprain (as is what happening now), Revis can shadow Julio Jones. 

 

Oh, and to add to that: That's a fine post to make if everyone is healthy.  When Revis goes down with a knee injury (as happened last year), you have nobody to shadow either White or Julio

 

In other words, except when dealing with injury-prone players injuries are random events that are equally likely to impact your guy as they are to impact the other team - which makes the "put all my pass D eggs in one basket" approach a poorer idea, not a better one.

[bitonti]

Oh, and to add to that: That's a fine post to make if everyone is healthy.  When Revis goes down with a knee injury (as happened last year), you have nobody to shadow either White or Julio

 

In other words, except when dealing with injury-prone players injuries are random events that are equally likely to impact your guy as they are to impact the other team - which makes the "put all my pass D eggs in one basket" approach a poorer idea, not a better one.

 

that's true if Revis goes down with a knee injury he doesn't help the team. Injuries happen and there's only 1 Revis. Bottom line compare his play against Santonio vs Cro against VJ it's not even close. Cro was putrid. 

[BroadwayJoe12]

guys get old it happens. The difference between Cro and Revis is that Cro uses his athleticism and Revis uses his brains.  Revis never had elite athleticism.

 

Dude, c'mon, that's even twisting reality to fit your argument even moreso than usual.  Revis might not be the athlete that Cro is/was, not many, if any athletes are.  However, he blazed a 40 time in the 4.3s, his short shuttle and 3-cone drill were other-worldly at 4.08 and 6.56, respectively.  Yea he uses his brains and technique a lot, but the guy is a world-class athlete, saying anything else is just flat out lying to get your point across.

[Bleedin Green]

so you didn't answer my question when has anyone hung 154 yards on Revis? 

 

you also are ignoring Cro's play last week because it doesn't fit your agenda. Read this link... if you dare. 

 

http://turnonthejets.com/2013/09/new-york-jets-secondary-grade-sheet-week-one/#more-17062

 

Considering that your assertion is that Revis is more than twice the player Cromartie is, it's irrelevant if a crappy game Cromratie had is slightly worse than a crappy game Revis had.  Actually, for Revis to be more than twice the player of Cro, that would mean any game in which a WR has gained more than 77 yards against Revis would have to qualify him as being proven to being substantially worse than you believe him to be, and I'll bet that has happened more often.  Of course, that's before even addressing the point that your attempts to suggest Jackson's yards were all gained against Cromartie is 100% completely untrue, as I know you are already well aware.

 

I've quite thoroughly acknowledged that Cro had a crappy game, I simply am not allowing one game to change my entire perception of the circumstances.  You of all people should both understand and appreciate that.  The truth is that your criteria for evaluating players drastically changes from post to post in your attempts to justify your predetermined conclusions.

[bitonti]

 I've quite thoroughly acknowledged that Cro had a crappy game, I simply am not allowing one game to change my entire perception of the circumstances.  You of all people should both understand and appreciate that.  The truth is that your criteria for evaluating players drastically changes from post to post in your attempts to justify your predetermined conclusions.

 

how many games where Cro is awful will it take for you to believe he's awful? 

[bitonti]

Dude, c'mon, that's even twisting reality to fit your argument even moreso than usual.  Revis might not be the athlete that Cro is/was, not many, if any athletes are.  However, he blazed a 40 time in the 4.3s, his short shuttle and 3-cone drill were other-worldly at 4.08 and 6.56, respectively.  Yea he uses his brains and technique a lot, but the guy is a world-class athlete, saying anything else is just flat out lying to get your point across.

 

that 4.38 was hand timed pro day (extremely unofficial) he didn't run it at indy like Deion Sanders running a 4.2. Even if that number is real it's closer to 4.4 than 4.3. Revis isn't really a speed player he is about anticipation and technique. Revis will have a much longer career than Cro I think that's a safe statement. WE may have already seen the best of Cro. 

[Bleedin Green]

So to recap:

 

1.  Cro has absolutely no idea how to play the CB position.  Clearly, any fast human being can be a Pro Bowl CB.

 

2.  Cro is responsible for completions made against other defenders on the team.

 

3.  A healthy Vincent Jackson is equivalent to a Santonio Holmes who is coming off of an injury and hasn't played football in over 11 months.

 

4.  My personal favorite: one CB, who metrics say outperformed his CB teammate in the last season they were both healthy and on the same team, is less than 1/10th of the player of that other CB.

 

 

Wow, we've officially reached all new lows.  If nothing else, at least this should put the final nail in the coffin, huh?