Vaunted

[JoeKlecko]

This is my biggest fear. Doing the same thing to Geno that they did to Sanchez. Different OCs every year is a disaster.

 

To begin with, Sanchez, didn't have a different OC every year.  He had Schotty for 3 years, Sparano for a year and now Mornhinweg.  Getting rid of Sparano after one year was addition by subtraction.  It would have been worse for Sanchez and the team if Sparano had remained as OC.

 

That said, I get your point.  One of the things that has killed the Jets over the years has been the continual flip-flopping between different offensive and defensive systems when new HCs were hired.  Yes, it is a major change when a new HC is hired, but in most cases, the HC deserved to be fired.  Keeping an incompetent HC just for continuity's sake gains nothing except mediocrity.  What hurt was that the Jets didn't have the intelligence to hire a HC who would keep the same systems in place, or at least one of the systems/styles of play the same, and not make changes to both in one year.  When that happens it means the team continually has to turn over its roster to get players who better fit the new system.

 

Rex could be fired and several different scenarios could play out.  The new HC could opt to keep Mornhinweg and Lee.  The new HC could be ordered to keep Mornhinweg and Lee (just as Rex was ordered to keep Schotty and Cavanaugh).  The new HC could keep the WCO, and even if Mornhinweg didn't stay, the system and offensive philosophy would be basically unchanged.  Finally, Mornhinweg could be hired as the new HC.  

[JoeKlecko]

He was in the same draft that saw dropped jaws over a G prospect falling into the double digits after another one went 7. He's closer to Antrel Rolle than Revis in upside, and was not that hyped relative to other CB prospects in recent memory. His biggest pluses were size and experience. 

 

I disagree.  To my recollection, Milliner's biggest pluses were his size, speed, and coverage ability. The fact that he had played well in big games and played for a national championship team didn't hurt.  Some even said his playmaking/ballhawking ability, although in the footage I saw he dropped a lot of potential interceptions.

[faba]

Right now a lot of so called experts are wrong on Milliner-he has to have something right, right? please

[Jetscode1]

Bradway's fine in his current role. 

 

The next dynamic every down offensive  skill player he has a hand in drafting will be his first.

[JoeKlecko]

Sperm your posts in this thread are right on the money. This team is exactly what we thought it was and next year IMO will be the most important year in this rebuilding process simply because we have so many options with our picks and cap number. If we make the right moves this team will begin to Gel next year and really begin to make a splash in 2015. The biggest decision Idzik has to make will be --Is Geno the guy ? -- this offseason and that's going to be a very tough decision IMO. The other decision will be how he feels about Rex . I say those 2 are the biggest because its pretty obvious where this team needs to build and that's the skill positions on offense and the secondary

 

Spot on.  Both Sperm and you get it.

 

As I see it, these are the key decisions Idzik will make this offseason that will affect his career and the Jets for the foreseeable future:

 

1a. What to do with Rex? Who the HC is will determine the offensive/defensive systems, and thus the makeup of the future roster.  If Geno is to succeed, then it would seem that Mornhinweg and Lee need to be retained, or at a minimum the new HC be a WCO disciple.  I don't envy him his choice, that is if he even gets a choice.  Woody may simply opt to retain Rex regardless of what Idzik wants or thinks is best for the team.  As basically still a rookie GM, I'm sure he would prefer to have a proven veteran HC, but there are no Andy Reids out there.  The Jets have a sorry failed history of hiring rookie HCs.  That would have to be a daunting option for Idzik.  Based on the growth/improvements that Rex has made this year, Idzik may opt to extend for another year or two and give him the opportunity to address his other glaring weaknesses, or may opt to extend him because he just doesn't like any of the potential candidates and may decide to wait another year or two in hopes that the candidate pool will improve.  Andy Reid was available this year, perhaps another quality veteran HC will shake free within a year or two.

 

1b. Is Geno the answer at QB?  I'd be willing to bet that Idzik hedges his bet with Geno and either adds a quality vet QB in FA and/or drafts another QB in 2014.  If Geno develops, Simms continues to develop and the vet and/or rookie all play well in camps, then the Jets will have the option to trade one of them and gain future draft picks or possibly even a player or players to help address some needs. 

 

2. How he handles FA.  Which positions/needs does he see as most important and will seek to address in FA?  How successful will he be?  Will he go after a couple of big name, high $ players (doubtful), of seek to go with a lot of cheaper, younger players to increase competition and improve depth (more likely)?

 

3.  The draft.  I think something like 5 players from Idzik's first draft are starting or playing significant roles.  He'll be hard pressed to repeat that, but he can't afford a bad draft.  With double-digit draft picks, this should wind up being one of the best drafts in Jets history and have a huge impact on the future success of the team.

 

4. What he does with Holmes and Cromartie.  Sanchez is certainly a goner.  Holmes should be, and quite possibly Cromartie too.  Cromartie definitely should not be extended or given any guaranteed money to lower his cap hit ala Tanny.

 

Needs as I see them:

 

Offensive Weapons - I don't think any Jets fan can argue with this.  The team needs playmakers and talent on offense.

 

Receiving Corps - Hopefully this will be a top priority in both FA and the draft.  The Jets need a #1 WR.  I'd like to see them add a WR in both FA and the draft.  In order to do so, if need be, I think they could get by at TE with Winslow playing well, Cumberland continuing to improve and Sudfeld showing some potential.  Chris Pantale could be a wild card as well. They could also add a solid vet in FA.  That said, it would be awesome to add a TE like Ebron.  I am normally averse to trading up, and hope that a #1 WR prospect will fall to the Jets, but if one doesn't, if it doesn't require multiple picks to move up in the 2nd round to get one they like, I wouldn't be vehemently opposed to their moving up in the 2nd to get him.  I know the BAP philosophy will be a huge factor, as it should be, but they simply HAVE to get a #1 WR for Geno or whomever their starting QB will be, even if it's an older, more expensive vet as a stopgap for a year or two.

 

RB - Powell is a versatile back and an excellent contributor.  If Ivory can stay healthy and contribute at a high level for the remainder of the season and with Goodson back, it wouldn't be mandatory that Idzik add another RB, although he could easily add one in FA.  If not, he could opt to take one in the middle to lower rounds.  I watched only a few minutes of the Packers-Vikings game last night, but saw Toby Gerhart score a TD on an excellent run. The announcers speculated that Gerhart probably wouldn't return to the Vikings next season as he can't get on the field behind AP.  I don't know his contract status for certain, but it sounds as if he could be a FA.  I think he would be a very good addition to the Jets stable of RBs.  He's young, strong, has some speed and power and if I remember correctly, has good hands as a receiver.

 

OL - OL really aren't "weapons", but I think the OL definitely needs to be upgraded.  Howard is "meh" at RT, and Brick's play is in decline.  I have hope for Winters, and Colon is pretty good, but I think Idzik definitely needs to use some middle-to-lower round draft picks as well as FA $s on upgrading the OL.  Too many times this year there have been no holes for the RBs and Geno has had to run for his life.  At a minimum, I'd like to see Howard's spot upgraded.  If they like, they can keep him as a backup, but I'd like to see a real roadgrader at RT.  I have hopes for Dalton Freeman to develop as the backup C and backup OG, and possibly eventually the LS as well.  Campbell has some promise, but Schaluderaff is "meh" and Ducasse should be gone, so I think a quality veteran OG should be added to the mix in FA.  Depending upon whether Idzik is fine with starting a rookie at LT in a year or two, he might want to consider drafting Bricks future replacement.

 

Defense

OLB - This position has been ignored long enough.  The DL has added more pressure on opposing QBs, and before he went on IR Barnes helped as well, but the Jets simply MUST address this position in either FA or the draft, preferably the 1st or 2nd round of the draft.  I want a young, fast, energetic stud that can reak havoc on opposing offenses.  I know most will scream about yet another high draft pick on the front 7, but being that OLB is the most important position in a 3-4 D alignment for generating pressure on opposing QBs and being a playmaker, the Jets have gone with jags long enough.  I suppose I could live with an upgrade via FA, but Pace's days with the team should be done.  Neither Sapp nor McIntyre are the answer.

 

S - I don't know what the draft class at these positions will be like in 2014, but these positions MUST be addressed in a significant fashion (not with low round draft picks) if the team is to show any signficant improvement.  I was very upset and disappointed that a S was not drafted this year, as it was one of the strengths of this draft and there was excellent depth as well.  Older, slower vets who can't cover are not the answer.  They needs at least one S who is a ballhawk.

 

CB - I can't believe that this is a need again.  Earlier this season, many were proclaiming this as a strength of the team and thought the depth excellent.  Hopefully, Milliner will develop.  I don't know what to do with Cro.  He has reverted to his usual crappy form this year.  I guess it depends upon the cap.  If it will cost a fortune to get rid of him, then I guess they have to keep him for another year or two, but unless his play improves significantly next season, I'd love to get rid of him.  Wilson is supposedly the best slot CB in the NFL.  I find that hard to believe.  I also find it hard to believe that he still doesn't turn his head around to find the ball.  I'd love to see him replaced.  If Tampa Bay releases Revis, and he is sufficiently humbled, such that he'd come back to the Jets for a little over half of what he made this past season (around $8-10 million per), I'd take him back; otherwise, I'd tell him to go eff himself.  Will anyone decent be available in FA?  We have to hope and pray that there will be, as even with double digit draft picks, the Jets have a lot more needs than high picks.

[JollyGreenGiant]

I disagree.  To my recollection, Milliner's biggest pluses were his size, speed, and coverage ability. The fact that he had played well in big games and played for a national championship team didn't hurt.  Some even said his playmaking/ballhawking ability, although in the footage I saw he dropped a lot of potential interceptions.

 

His pluses were his size and coverage, his speed was finally answered during the combine when he ran that good 40 time. Shadowing Eifert in the National Championship game also helped his stock. The only good play I saw from Milliner all year was during the pre-season playing against Detroit, he broke up a nice pass in the end zone and I thought "Nice, looks like we won't miss Revis much". Horrible assumption thus far.

[SenorGato]

I disagree.  To my recollection, Milliner's biggest pluses were his size, speed, and coverage ability. The fact that he had played well in big games and played for a national championship team didn't hurt.  Some even said his playmaking/ballhawking ability, although in the footage I saw he dropped a lot of potential interceptions.

 

More that he played a ton of man to man at Alabama at a quality level. Being from Alabama definitely helped (being a solid starter for a NC team or two gets you noticed) and hurt (extremely high hopes as a rookie) him. Never considered much of a playmaker, I don't think. Only 2 INTs his last year at Alabama. Big CB at ~6'1" 200 who put up the proper workout numbers to hold his spot as the top CB prospect in the last draft. 

[Matt39]

I wish there was a method of evaluating college players without knowing where they went to school.

Bama runs over people. Their prospects recently have been meh NFL players other than Julio(as can't miss as it gets)

Milliner fell for a reason and the Jets got caught with their pants down again. Similar to the year before with Coples.

[Sperm Edwards]

CB - I can't believe that this is a need again.  Earlier this season, many were proclaiming this as a strength of the team and thought the depth excellent.  Hopefully, Milliner will develop.  I don't know what to do with Cro.  He has reverted to his usual crappy form this year.  I guess it depends upon the cap.  If it will cost a fortune to get rid of him, then I guess they have to keep him for another year or two, but unless his play improves significantly next season, I'd love to get rid of him.  Wilson is supposedly the best slot CB in the NFL.  I find that hard to believe.  I also find it hard to believe that he still doesn't turn his head around to find the ball.  I'd love to see him replaced.  If Tampa Bay releases Revis, and he is sufficiently humbled, such that he'd come back to the Jets for a little over half of what he made this past season (around $8-10 million per), I'd take him back; otherwise, I'd tell him to go eff himself.  Will anyone decent be available in FA?  We have to hope and pray that there will be, as even with double digit draft picks, the Jets have a lot more needs than high picks.

 

It costs a fortune to keep Cro, not to get rid of him.  I forget exactly offhand, but without looking it up, Jason had Cro as something like $14M to keep, $5M to cut.  Or another way of looking at it is a net gain of $9M to cut.

 

Would be an easy decision if Milliner didn't suck.  1 year of Milliner + Wilson, with Wilson heading into his final season.  Draft his replacement this year and then everything's set again with our starting CBs.  Milliner being so terrible messes up those plans a bit.

[JiFtheOracle]

Guys, relax.  You cant play the Patriots and Tom Brady every week...

[Jet27]

How about 35?  Cause the defense was destroyed, but they didn't give up 49 points. They weren't even on the field for 14 of them. 

Yes Yes Yes.....49, 35, whatever...Rex and his D is/has been exposed now for the past 3 years....

[neckdemon]

Sorry neck but I can't take your criticism seriously here. It seems to me that, according to you, every good player the Jets have added during Rex's tenure were added by someone else but every miss was Rex's fault. 

 

I get that you don't like the guy but it seems to me that you should be able to make a legit critique without resorting to such a naked double standard. 

 

I like Rex, I think his biggest downfall is that he gets the team so up some weeks that they can't possibly reach that same level the following week. 

 

Yesterday was more an example of the talent disparity between these two rosters than anything else. The stunning thing is that Marvin Lewis was the coach who finally came up with a gameplan to exploit literally every weakness the Jets have.

 

 

i think you are completely misunderstanding what i am saying. i am not blaming rex for dradfting bad players. i am blaming rex for the team building philosophy that has been used up until idzik got here. people can have whatever opinion they like....but imo there is no way in hell it is just a coincidence that the team has gone mostly defense since rex has been here. in an era where the rules dictate that there will likely never be another really dominant defense rex has gone about trying to do it anyway.....at the total expense of our offense. what he was trying to build is a team that would have been absolutely dominant......in the 1980's. i actually like rex ryan........and i'm not even necessarily saying that he should be fired. all i know is that he is a big reason this team is so far behind the curve. it's not his coaching ability. it's his inability to get with the times. he is a 90 year old man who still uses a rotary phone

[Sperm Edwards]

KC is giving up 12ppg. Bob Sutton is the DC. Beating up on their defense means scoring 17 points.

Because the Jets aren't doing it doesn't mean it can't be done.

[JoeKlecko]

 think you are completely misunderstanding what i am saying. i am not blaming rex for dradfting bad players. i am blaming rex for the team building philosophy that has been used up until idzik got here. people can have whatever opinion they like....but imo there is no way in hell it is just a coincidence that the team has gone mostly defense since rex has been here. in an era where the rules dictate that there will likely never be another really dominant defense rex has gone about trying to do it anyway.....at the total expense of our offense. what he was trying to build is a team that would have been absolutely dominant......in the 1980's. i actually like rex ryan........and i'm not even necessarily saying that he should be fired. all i know is that he is a big reason this team is so far behind the curve. it's not his coaching ability. it's his inability to get with the times. he is a 90 year old man who still uses a rotary phone

 

 

What's so ironic to me is that whoever was making the call (be it Tanny, Rex, Bradway or someone else) totally had it wrong in terms of building a dominant D.  A dominant D begins and ends with the pass rush.  The most important players in a 3-4 D are the OLBs, who are the ones who are the playmakers vs both the run and the pass and who supply most of the pressure on opposing QBs.  Other than whiffing on Gallstone (Gholston), they've basically ignored the most important position while trying to build a dominant D.  FOFLMAO.  Only the effing Jets.

[neckdemon]

What's so ironic to me is that whoever was making the call (be it Tanny, Rex, Bradway or someone else) totally had it wrong in terms of building a dominant D.  A dominant D begins and ends with the pass rush.  The most important players in a 3-4 D are the OLBs, who are the ones who are the playmakers vs both the run and the pass and who supply most of the pressure on opposing QBs.  Other than whiffing on Gallstone (Gholston), they've basically ignored the most important position while trying to build a dominant D.  FOFLMAO.  Only the effing Jets.

 

 

i agree partly......i think the true foundation of a dominant defense is the front 7 as a whole. but yes....besides getting a really dominant nose, the pass rush (olb's in our case) is tantamount. somehow we haven't really tried to acquire these players. rex's philosophy has been to build the secondary (which has been a failure). this philosophy doesn't work because without a pass rush there is no db in the world that can hold coverage that long when the opposing qbn has all day in the pocket to throw

[Jacked4JetsFB]

KC is giving up 12ppg. Bob Sutton is the DC. Beating up on their defense means scoring 17 points.

Because the Jets aren't doing it doesn't mean it can't be done.

The chiefs are doing a great job so far, but they have played a pretty soft schedule so far.

As good as their record is, I don't think they are a real contender this year.

[Jacked4JetsFB]

i think you are completely misunderstanding what i am saying. i am not blaming rex for dradfting bad players. i am blaming rex for the team building philosophy that has been used up until idzik got here. people can have whatever opinion they like....but imo there is no way in hell it is just a coincidence that the team has gone mostly defense since rex has been here. in an era where the rules dictate that there will likely never be another really dominant defense rex has gone about trying to do it anyway.....at the total expense of our offense. what he was trying to build is a team that would have been absolutely dominant......in the 1980's. i actually like rex ryan........and i'm not even necessarily saying that he should be fired. all i know is that he is a big reason this team is so far behind the curve. it's not his coaching ability. it's his inability to get with the times. he is a 90 year old man who still uses a rotary phone

This is spot on.

And for anyone who says the HC should not determine the team building philosophy, your dead wrong. It is 100% the role of the HC to decide how he wants his team built to suit his coaching style.

This is my biggest problem with Rex nowadays. It seems that his motives have been first and foremost, big time defense, and second a great team.

[Matt39]

KC is giving up 12ppg. Bob Sutton is the DC. Beating up on their defense means scoring 17 points.

Because the Jets aren't doing it doesn't mean it can't be done.

They've also drafted exceedingly well. The Jamaal Charles pick helps too.

[Jacked4JetsFB]

Look at KCs schedule, the only half way decent offense they beat was Dallas, the rest have been atrocious. KC is waaaay overrated right now

[Sperm Edwards]

The chiefs are doing a great job so far, but they have played a pretty soft schedule so far.

As good as their record is, I don't think they are a real contender this year.

 

They are a real contender this year.  The odds are they won't win it, but they are clearly a contender.  I don't see any way they don't make the playoffs as one of the higher seeds and that alone makes someone a contender.

 

I absolutely did look at their schedule: 

• Jacksonville sucks, but a shutout is a shutout and it's hard to do against anyone.
• Dallas is not a pushover offense.  They're averaging like 30 ppg and KC held them to about half that.
• Eagles are averaging 23ppg vs their other opponents.  Held Philly's offense to a "net" 9 points (16 points minus the pick-6). Vick was coming off 2 great games and they ate him alive.
• Giants suck, but they aren't being held to 7 points on 1 deep pass to Cruz (which they're capable of doing any week no matter how the rest of the team is playing), and nothing else for the rest of the game.
• Tennessee was averaging like 25ppg vs other opponents (with a healthy Locker).  Another net-10 point game (17 minus the fumble return TD).
• Raiders averaging 20ppg vs other opponents.  Held them to 7 points and also got another defensive TD.
• Houston sucks and they held them to about the same as everyone else does (16 pts).
• Cleveland has two serious receiving weapons.  Held them to 17, which is good enough.

They have been a top defense with no "let down" games all season.

 

I admit I'm curious to see what they do against Denver, twice in 3 weeks.  San Diego's offense is also playing well and they have 2 games coming up against them as well.  Also play the Colts in December.  5 of their last 8 games are against teams that are routinely putting up points.  The other 3 are @Buffalo, @Washington, and @Oakland.  Again, it'll be interesting to see.

 

 

They've also drafted exceedingly well. The Jamaal Charles pick helps too.

 

Meh.  The way they've handled the draft is far from special.

 

They've surrendered high picks on Matt Cassel (#34 overall pick in 2009) and Alex Smith (another #34 overall pick in 2013 and more to come in 2014).  The Jets' FO would be crucified if they gave up 3 second round picks (two of them the #2 pick in round 2) for those 2 QBs.  Not to mention the contract they gave Cassel. Woof.

 

2012: First 2 picks are starters.  3rd round OT is a backup.  Their other 5 picks are either 3rd string or off the team already.

 

2011: They drafted super-bust Jonathan Baldwin with the #26 overall pick.  2nd rounder they drafted a center.  3rd round pick was arguably the best pick in the whole draft considering the draft slot.  Their other 3rd, 4th, 5th, 5th, 6th, and 7th rounders netted zero starters and all but 2 are off the team or out of the league already

 

2010: Berry is obviously what they hoped, but he should be as a top 5 pick and was kind of the obvious pick almost anyone would have taken there.  I guess I can give them credit for not trying to get too cute and trading down & drafting Brandon Graham, but there aren't a lot of busts at the top of that draft from #5 onward.  2nd round pick is a punt returner and isn't half the slot receiver that Kerley is.  Another 2nd rounder, used on a CB (Arenas) was just traded for a fullback.  3rd rounder got a super guard in Asamoah.  Their other 3rd rounder can't stay on the field and is off the team.  Got a good, starting FS in round 5 but due to injury or otherwise he didn't really come alive until this 4th season (Reid & Sutton love him).  On balance IMO this was a great draft (Berry, Asamoah, Lewis), but they did whiff or semi-whiff on the both the #36 and #50 overall picks (got 4th-5th round value for both picks).  

 

2009: Tyson Jackson was lousy value for the 3rd overall pick.  2nd round pick used on Matt Cassel.  3rd rounder Alex Magee, a backup who was off the team by year 2.  4th rounder a backup who was off the team by the end of year 3.  5th rounder a tackle who never saw the field for them.  6th rounder on their roster bubble for a couple of years & then gone.  Three 7th rounders netted camp fodder, a blocking TE who is off the team, and a kicker.

 

They're also going to be short $10M/year in cap room for the undeserving Dwayne Bowe (and the 3rd round pick they'd have received if they let him go) plus the conditional pick for Alex Smith (another 2nd rounder).  Two more higher picks, with dirt-cheap contracts for 4 years, that they won't have in April. 

 

They're just playing really well.  I see a lot of similarities to the 2009-2010 teams except they have a veteran game-manager and we had Mark Sanchez.

[Matt39]

They are a real contender this year.  The odds are they won't win it, but they are clearly a contender.  I don't see any way they don't make the playoffs as one of the higher seeds and that alone makes someone a contender.

 

I absolutely did look at their schedule: 

• Jacksonville sucks, but a shutout is a shutout and it's hard to do against anyone.
• Dallas is not a pushover offense.  They're averaging like 30 ppg and KC held them to about half that.
• Eagles are averaging 23ppg vs their other opponents.  Held Philly's offense to a "net" 9 points (16 points minus the pick-6). Vick was coming off 2 great games and they ate him alive.
• Giants suck, but they aren't being held to 7 points on 1 deep pass to Cruz (which they're capable of doing any week no matter how the rest of the team is playing), and nothing else for the rest of the game.
• Tennessee was averaging like 25ppg vs other opponents (with a healthy Locker).  Another net-10 point game (17 minus the fumble return TD).
• Raiders averaging 20ppg vs other opponents.  Held them to 7 points and also got another defensive TD.
• Houston sucks and they held them to about the same as everyone else does (16 pts).
• Cleveland has two serious receiving weapons.  Held them to 17, which is good enough.

They have been a top defense with no "let down" games all season.

 

I admit I'm curious to see what they do against Denver, twice in 3 weeks.  San Diego's offense is also playing well and they have 2 games coming up against them as well.  Also play the Colts in December.  5 of their last 8 games are against teams that are routinely putting up points.  The other 3 are @Buffalo, @Washington, and @Oakland.  Again, it'll be interesting to see.

 

 

 

Meh.  The way they've handled the draft is far from special.

 

They've surrendered high picks on Matt Cassel (#34 overall pick in 2009) and Alex Smith (another #34 overall pick in 2013 and more to come in 2014).  The Jets' FO would be crucified if they gave up 3 second round picks (two of them the #2 pick in round 2) for those 2 QBs.  Not to mention the contract they gave Cassel. Woof.

 

2012: First 2 picks are starters.  3rd round OT is a backup.  Their other 5 picks are either 3rd string or off the team already.

 

2011: They drafted super-bust Jonathan Baldwin with the #26 overall pick.  2nd rounder they drafted a center.  3rd round pick was arguably the best pick in the whole draft considering the draft slot.  Their other 3rd, 4th, 5th, 5th, 6th, and 7th rounders netted zero starters and all but 2 are off the team or out of the league already

 

2010: Berry is obviously what they hoped, but he should be as a top 5 pick and was kind of the obvious pick almost anyone would have taken there.  I guess I can give them credit for not trying to get too cute and trading down & drafting Brandon Graham, but there aren't a lot of busts at the top of that draft from #5 onward.  2nd round pick is a punt returner and isn't half the slot receiver that Kerley is.  Another 2nd rounder, used on a CB (Arenas) was just traded for a fullback.  3rd rounder got a super guard in Asamoah.  Their other 3rd rounder can't stay on the field and is off the team.  Got a good, starting FS in round 5 but due to injury or otherwise he didn't really come alive until this 4th season (Reid & Sutton love him).  On balance IMO this was a great draft (Berry, Asamoah, Lewis), but they did whiff or semi-whiff on the both the #36 and #50 overall picks (got 4th-5th round value for both picks).  

 

2009: Tyson Jackson was lousy value for the 3rd overall pick.  2nd round pick used on Matt Cassel.  3rd rounder Alex Magee, a backup who was off the team by year 2.  4th rounder a backup who was off the team by the end of year 3.  5th rounder a tackle who never saw the field for them.  6th rounder on their roster bubble for a couple of years & then gone.  Three 7th rounders netted camp fodder, a blocking TE who is off the team, and a kicker.

 

They're also going to be short $10M/year in cap room for the undeserving Dwayne Bowe (and the 3rd round pick they'd have received if they let him go) plus the conditional pick for Alex Smith (another 2nd rounder).  Two more higher picks, with dirt-cheap contracts for 4 years, that they won't have in April. 

 

They're just playing really well.  I see a lot of similarities to the 2009-2010 teams except they have a veteran game-manager and we had Mark Sanchez.

 

They havent hit on every pick- but they've hit on positions that "change games" Charles obviously is a game breaking talent and probably the offensive player of the year. Tamba Hali is an under the radar superstar and Justin Houston is a sack machine. Flowers is a good corner. They've got studs. And Poe looks to be a stud as well.

[Sperm Edwards]

They havent hit on every pick- but they've hit on positions that "change games" Charles obviously is a game breaking talent and probably the offensive player of the year. Tamba Hali is an under the radar superstar and Justin Houston is a sack machine. Flowers is a good corner. They've got studs. And Poe looks to be a stud as well.

 

They drafted Charles back in 2008.  Tamba Hali was drafted in 2006.  That's 5 and 7 years ago.  I included the other guys above. 

 

It's not just that they haven't hit on every pick, because no one hits on every pick.  They've also thrown draft picks - HIGH draft picks - away on veterans who need brand new high-dollar contracts.  They've also had their share of busts with other high picks.  

 

They've generally drafted well, but not "Holy crap they get 4 new studs every year" well.  Re-read what I outlined from their last handful of drafts.  Considering their high draft slots every year, they really didn't come away with a mountain of gold.  They hit paydirt on some, of course, but the ones they don't are rarely even worthy of being backups or depth.

 

I'm giving the coaching staff credit for getting them to play up to their potential and win games with more or less the same team & talent that has made them losers.  Also, underwhelming as Alex Smith is, he's a prime illustration of just how important it is to not have a pile of hopes and suck at QB.

[JoeKlecko]

Seeing what Justin Houston is doing for the Chiefs is killing me.  I really, REALLY wanted the Jets to draft him.  Damned Tanny!

[#27TheDominator]

Seeing what Justin Houston is doing for the Chiefs is killing me.  I really, REALLY wanted the Jets to draft him.  Damned Tanny!

 

If I'm not mistaken, the only player the Jets took before Houston was Wilkerson.  The 2nd went for Cro and was gone already and our third was WAY after the Chiefs.  This is kind of like the "WHY DIDN'T TANNY DRAFT RUSSELL WILSON?!?!" argument. . 

[JoeKlecko]

If I'm not mistaken, the only player the Jets took before Houston was Wilkerson.  The 2nd went for Cro and was gone already and our third was WAY after the Chiefs.  This is kind of like the "WHY DIDN'T TANNY DRAFT RUSSELL WILSON?!?!" argument. . 

 

I really liked Wilkerson, but liked Houston more.  They could have traded up in the 3rd to get Houston or traded a pick from the 2012 draft if need be.  This team still has a crying need for a pass rushing OLB.  Also, while the trade for Cro worked out well for the Jets, I was never in favor of that trade.  That's damned Rex and his stupidity placing CBs in value over OLBs. If the Jets had kept that pick and they had Houston ranked as a 3rd round prospect, they could have tried to trade down.

 

It isn't like the "WHY DIDN'T TANNY DRAFT RUSSELL WILSON?" argument in any way, shape or form.

[Matt39]

They drafted Charles back in 2008. Tamba Hali was drafted in 2006. That's 5 and 7 years ago. I included the other guys above.

It's not just that they haven't hit on every pick, because no one hits on every pick. They've also thrown draft picks - HIGH draft picks - away on veterans who need brand new high-dollar contracts. They've also had their share of busts with other high picks.

They've generally drafted well, but not "Holy crap they get 4 new studs every year" well. Re-read what I outlined from their last handful of drafts. Considering their high draft slots every year, they really didn't come away with a mountain of gold. They hit paydirt on some, of course, but the ones they don't are rarely even worthy of being backups or depth.

I'm giving the coaching staff credit for getting them to play up to their potential and win games with more or less the same team & talent that has made them losers. Also, underwhelming as Alex Smith is, he's a prime illustration of just how important it is to not have a pile of hopes and suck at QB.

Agreed. If you want to see a difference in talent go back and watch Bengals Jets. Actually don't.

But holy crap that team is talented.

[#27TheDominator]

I really liked Wilkerson, but liked Houston more.  They could have traded up in the 3rd to get Houston or traded a pick from the 2012 draft if need be.  This team still has a crying need for a pass rushing OLB.  Also, while the trade for Cro worked out well for the Jets, I was never in favor of that trade.  That's damned Rex and his stupidity placing CBs in value over OLBs. If the Jets had kept that pick and they had Houston ranked as a 3rd round prospect, they could have tried to trade down.

 

It isn't like the "WHY DIDN'T TANNY DRAFT RUSSELL WILSON?" argument in any way, shape or form.

 

Actually it is pretty much identical to the Russell Wilson argument. 

[Matt39]

Corners are valuable players. Corners who out right suck can kill you. It's a tough position to draft.

[JoeKlecko]

Actually it is pretty much identical to the Russell Wilson argument. 

 

No it isn't.  When you're trying to build a 3-4 D you don't ignore the OLB position in the draft every year.  When your team generates little, if any real pressure on opposing QBs except during an all out blitz, you don't ignore the OLB position in the draft every year.  When you're in a position to get one, you do it.  You can get CBs or DEs in other years.

[JoeKlecko]

Corners are valuable players. Corners who out right suck can kill you. It's a tough position to draft.

 

I didn't say they weren't, but they're not more valuable than pass-rushing OLBs, no way, no how.

[Matt39]

I didn't say they weren't, but they're not more valuable than pass-rushing OLBs, no way, no how.

Depends on who we're comparing.

[JoeKlecko]

Depends on who we're comparing.

 

I'm talking about the position in general.  You can always cherry pick two extremes and compare a Revis to a Gholston to skew an argument.  The book on a 3-4 D alignment says that THE most important player is your pass rushing OLB.  The second most important player is the NT.  CB may be #3, but it isn't #1 or #2, and it isn't even close.

 

Supposedly, in Rex's version of the 3-4, the CB is more important, and according to some Jets fans more important than the OLB.  If that's true, then imo it's a serious flaw in his thinking and conception of the defense, and why he isn't as great as some want to proclaim him, and why the Jets will never have a dominant D until they get that pass rusher.  Even if that truly is Rex's conception, the GM is supposed to know better, and make the right decisions.

[#27TheDominator]

No it isn't.  When you're trying to build a 3-4 D you don't ignore the OLB position in the draft every year.  When your team generates little, if any real pressure on opposing QBs except during an all out blitz, you don't ignore the OLB position in the draft every year.  When you're in a position to get one, you do it.  You can get CBs or DEs in other years.

 

LOL. Your reasoning behind this not being like the Russell Wilson argument is that OLB is such an important position?  Good one. 

[Matt39]

I'm talking about the position in general.  You can always cherry pick two extremes and compare a Revis to a Gholston to skew an argument.  The book on a 3-4 D alignment says that THE most important player is your pass rushing OLB.  The second most important player is the NT.  CB may be #3, but it isn't #1 or #2, and it isn't even close.

 

Supposedly, in Rex's version of the 3-4, the CB is more important, and according to some Jets fans more important than the OLB.  If that's true, then imo it's a serious flaw in his thinking and conception of the defense, and why he isn't as great as some want to proclaim him, and why the Jets will never have a dominant D until they get that pass rusher.  Even if that truly is Rex's conception, the GM is supposed to know better, and make the right decisions.

 

I think the defense would be better off right now with a good CB rather the outside pass rusher. Our pass rush has been fine this year actually. We're getting beat because the secondary sucks.

[#27TheDominator]

I think the defense would be better off right now with a good CB rather the outside pass rusher. Our pass rush has been fine this year actually. We're getting beat because the secondary sucks.

 

Also, with Rex a speed edge guy can pay some dividends without being so great.  Guys like Maybin or Barnes.  Barnes was filling the role pretty well and got hurt and they had to resort to McIntyre.  No matter how good your OLB is, he doesn't help on IR.