The Dread Tally

[Jolot]

I just have this nagging feeling that if the Jets fire Rex there will come a point where we will look back and wonder what happened to the defense. Believe it or not you do need defense to win key games, especially in the playoffs and down the stretch.

This is what the Ryan twins want you to believe,..they've scammed a lot of people into thinking they're the only two people in the league who can coach defense,..don't buy it,..not for a second...there's plenty of good defenses in the league without a Ryan twin roaming around....NFL now is about offense offense and more offense,...and fielding a D that gets turnovers and makes stops when they have to, Ranking is as irrevelevnt as being the best run D in the league.

[Integrity28]

But Dunbar is the DL coach not Rex. Rex has had the luxury of coaching some incredible players in Balt and now here recently. Where was Rex when the Steelers ran the ball down our throats in the AFCCG in the first half ??

 

Yeah, don't ask that question here - it makes people mad at you. I've been asking this stuff since midway through his first year. I never got too caught up in Rex, it's always been hard to overlook his sloppiness. We backed into the playoffs that first year, and then he got the team to do what he occasionally gets them to do... over-achieve, until we start believing our own hype, and then we embarrass ourselves.

 

It's a cyclical thing with Rex's teams, always has been. People choose to overlook it because he is a likeable guy, somewhat. 

[Integrity28]

Your wrong, Rex had full control over the roster and personal decisions. Tanny was a deal guy and the do'er.

This is 100% Rex's team pre Idzik.

 

Technically speaking, it is the job of the GM to control the roster - Tanny's strategy for executing that role was to defer to Rex, but make no mistake that was Tanny doing the job of roster building, and it makes it his ******* fault. 

 

Rex's can and should be faulted for being an illogical, impulsive and terrible talent evaluator and scout - but if not for Tanny affording Rex the freedom to ruin this roster, Rex would have been harmless. 

 

They are both to blame, they should have both been fired.

[Jacked4JetsFB]

Technically speaking, it is the job of the GM to control the roster - Tanny's strategy for executing that role was to defer to Rex, but make no mistake that was Tanny doing the job of roster building, and it makes it his ******* fault. 

 

Rex's can and should be faulted for being an illogical, impulsive and terrible talent evaluator and scout - but if not for Tanny affording Rex the freedom to ruin this roster, Rex would have been harmless. 

 

They are both to blame, they should have both been fired.

 

For the most part, you are right that it is the GM's job to control the roster.

 

When Badway was the GM, that was his role.

 

However when Mangini came in, he Woodrow wanted to implement the Parcells/Bellicheck system, in which the GM is basically the errand boy for the HC.

 

This is why Badway was demoted, and the accountant was made GM, he was supposedly a good cap guy, and a good contract guy. Tannenbaum never believed he was a traditional GM, and knew his limitations.

 

When Mangini was fired, Woody liked Tannenbaum, and decided to keep him in his role. They hired Rex and tried to slot him into the same role that Mangini had.

 

It was not until hire ups at the Jets chimed in that the Jets needed to start drafting some offensive skill position talent that Rex was over-ruled. The first time he was overruled was the Hill pick, which turns out to be a disaster.

 

At the end of last season, Rex used that and some other things to put the blame on Tannenbaum and keep his own job.

 

Tannenbaum was doing the job he was given by the owner, he was never put in place to be a traditional GM.

 

I completely agree that they both suck and both should have been fired. My point originally was that for all the Rex apologists who want to say this is not Rex's personnel, they are 100% wrong. It is exactly his personnel, right up until this past draft where he was stripped completely of his power.

[Jacked4JetsFB]

Yeah, don't ask that question here - it makes people mad at you. I've been asking this stuff since midway through his first year. I never got too caught up in Rex, it's always been hard to overlook his sloppiness. We backed into the playoffs that first year, and then he got the team to do what he occasionally gets them to do... over-achieve, until we start believing our own hype, and then we embarrass ourselves.

 

It's a cyclical thing with Rex's teams, always has been. People choose to overlook it because he is a likeable guy, somewhat. 

 

This is spot on. I think they also overlook it because he is not Mangini, who was a hated, hated man. Rex came in and was the anti-Mangini, then when we lucked into some success early on, that was it, he became a loved Man. I never bought in either. I thought he had promise, but I knew when 2011 came around we were in deep sh*t with Rex.

[billo83]

Jacked4JetsFB, on 02 Dec 2013 - 8:13 PM, said:

Your wrong, Rex had full control over the roster and personal decisions. Tanny was a deal guy and the do'er.

This is 100% Rex's team pre Idzik.

So you know for this for a fact huh? Can you give me the lottery numbers while you are at it? Were you in the war room during the drafts? Were you in the personnel meetings with Tanny and Rex?

 

I suppose that guys like Hill and Ducasse were Rex picks, as well as EVERY single offensive and defensive player acquired while Rex has been here.

 

I guess too that meddlesome and PSL conscious Woody was never involved in any way in the decision to draft Sanchez or to trade for Tebow?

 

Yeah right this team is 100% Rex.

[billo83]

neckdemon, on 02 Dec 2013 - 7:18 PM, said:

I disagree......but either way rex needs to go

That's fine. I will say though that I highly doubt Idz will evaluate Rex based on the talent that has been brought in here since he was hired and what perceived influence he may have had. He will evaluate Rex performance working with the talent that is in on hand. 

[Smashmouth]

This is spot on. I think they also overlook it because he is not Mangini, who was a hated, hated man. Rex came in and was the anti-Mangini, then when we lucked into some success early on, that was it, he became a loved Man. I never bought in either. I thought he had promise, but I knew when 2011 came around we were in deep sh*t with Rex.

 

What's funny is when Rex came in here running his mouth like an Idiot as a Rookie HC I cant believe anyone would think that at some point it would not come back and smack him square in the face.

[billo83]

Smashmouth, on 02 Dec 2013 - 9:42 PM, said:

What's funny is when Rex came in here running his mouth like an Idiot as a Rookie HC I cant believe anyone would think that at some point it would not come back and smack him square in the face.

A lot of people around here did say that. Rex was the Anti-Magini. For the first time in a long time a Jets HC finally showed some balls. Can't blame people for getting excited about that. In the end it just shows that either end of the extreme is not good and you need to me somewhere near the middle.

[Jacked4JetsFB]

So you know for this for a fact huh? Can you give me the lottery numbers while you are at it? Were you in the war room during the drafts? Were you in the personnel meetings with Tanny and Rex?

I suppose that guys like Hill and Ducasse were Rex picks, as well as EVERY single offensive and defensive player acquired while Rex has been here.

I guess too that meddlesome and PSL conscious Woody was never involved in any way in the decision to draft Sanchez or to trade for Tebow?

Yeah right this team is 100% Rex.

Yes, I know this as a fact.

No, I cannot give you lottery numbers, I have no crystal ball, but I do have an intimate knowledge of how the Jets org operated since 2005.

[Jacked4JetsFB]

A lot of people around here did say that. Rex was the Anti-Magini. For the first time in a long time a Jets HC finally showed some balls. Can't blame people for getting excited about that. In the end it just shows that either end of the extreme is not good and you need to me somewhere near the middle.

Yeah, he talked like has some balls, but now we see those were fake balls, he is as ball-less as they come. Still waiting for him to hit two of anyones guys.

[billo83]

Yes, I know this as a fact.

No, I cannot give you lottery numbers, I have no crystal ball, but I do have an intimate knowledge of how the Jets org operated since 2005.

Really? So you are saying Ducasse and Hill to name a few are Rex picks? That's hilarious!

As far as you're blanket statement of having intimate knowledge, care to elaborate?

Most people, myself included, won't believe you unless you can back it up

[billo83]

Yeah, he talked like has some balls, but now we see those were fake balls, he is as ball-less as they come. Still waiting for him to hit two of anyones guys.

I won't disagree with that as of now. However he was more ballsy when he was first hired

But just like the team and talent level, that regressed heavily over the last three years.

My premise was more that it was refreshing at the tine after years of the likes of Herm & Mangini

[CTM]

.

[CTM]

bad offense doesn't explain the completion % against this defense. Last week in Miami the time of possession looked the way it did partially cause Miami was moving up and down the field ... first drive of game was a 15 play Miami drive... nothing to do with O

[Jacked4JetsFB]

Really? So you are saying Ducasse and Hill to name a few are Rex picks? That's hilarious!

As far as you're blanket statement of having intimate knowledge, care to elaborate?

Most people, myself included, won't believe you unless you can back it up

 

I really could care less whether you believe me or not. I am not going to name drop if that is what you are requesting. 

 

No, Ducasse and Hill were not Rex picks. Rex is not a scout, although he would scout certain players in positions he believed he was best suited to scout.

 

Rex set the roster priorities, he wanted to build a devastating defense and a strong running game. So  he would evaluate the roster and positions he believed he needed to accomplish that. The scouting department would scout and rank players, and ultimately he would chose the players based on their rankings at the positions he wanted to build around.

 

This is pretty much the exact system that Mangini setup here.

 

Something not a lot of people know is that Woody was the one who pretty much demanded they draft a QB in round 1 of 2009. He believed that drafting a QB that they could market as a franchise QB would help him to sell PSL's. The scouting department was not overly high on any of the 3 QB's coming out high that year. They knew they would not get Stafford, and they preferred Freeman over Sanchez. Rex liked Sanchez better. As it turns out both were a disaster, but Rex never thought he needed a QB since he really wanted to win with a running game and defense.

 

Hill was the first time that Rex was overruled. The org (including Tannenbaum and Woody) believed that there was a gaping hole developing at the WR position, and sought  out to draft a playmaker at WR. They gave Rex the first round pick he wanted, but the scouting dept loved Hill. They really believed he was going to be a monster. Rex had nothing against Hill in particular, he just did not want to draft a WR that early in the draft and thought you could get WR's in rounds 4-7.

 

Woody also was the one who demanded Tebow, neither Rex or Tannenbaum wanted any part of him, but did so to make Woody happy.

[Jacked4JetsFB]

I won't disagree with that as of now. However he was more ballsy when he was first hired

But just like the team and talent level, that regressed heavily over the last three years.

My premise was more that it was refreshing at the tine after years of the likes of Herm & Mangini

 

I agree that it was refreshing at the time. The problem is that Rex was a one trick pony and is completely unable to adapt. Rex is a very good DC, he is absolutely not a HC. The rest of the league has known this for years, the Jets gave him a shot which paid early dividends, but has been a disaster since. The roster is in shambles other than where he wanted to build it, which is not conducive to the modern NFL. Rex had no business being in a Bellicheck role, none. He should have known that and the org should have known that, and it was a huge failure from Rex right up to Woody that they all let it happen.

[#27TheDominator]

For the most part, you are right that it is the GM's job to control the roster.

 

When Badway was the GM, that was his role.

 

However when Mangini came in, he Woodrow wanted to implement the Parcells/Bellicheck system, in which the GM is basically the errand boy for the HC.

 

This is why Badway was demoted, and the accountant was made GM, he was supposedly a good cap guy, and a good contract guy. Tannenbaum never believed he was a traditional GM, and knew his limitations.

 

When Mangini was fired, Woody liked Tannenbaum, and decided to keep him in his role. They hired Rex and tried to slot him into the same role that Mangini had.

 

It was not until hire ups at the Jets chimed in that the Jets needed to start drafting some offensive skill position talent that Rex was over-ruled. The first time he was overruled was the Hill pick, which turns out to be a disaster.

 

At the end of last season, Rex used that and some other things to put the blame on Tannenbaum and keep his own job.

 

Tannenbaum was doing the job he was given by the owner, he was never put in place to be a traditional GM.

 

I completely agree that they both suck and both should have been fired. My point originally was that for all the Rex apologists who want to say this is not Rex's personnel, they are 100% wrong. It is exactly his personnel, right up until this past draft where he was stripped completely of his power.

 

 

I'm sure that George Young will be happy that you called him an errand boy. 

[Jacked4JetsFB]

I'm sure that George Young will be happy that you called him an errand boy.

LOL.

That is all

[Il Mostro]

Really? So you are saying Ducasse and Hill to name a few are Rex picks? That's hilarious!

As far as you're blanket statement of having intimate knowledge, care to elaborate?

Most people, myself included, won't believe you unless you can back it up

 

Are you saying Rex didn't shop for the groceries?  Both of those guys have the earmarks of Rex's shoot from the hip persona.   

[Il Mostro]

bad offense doesn't explain the completion % against this defense. Last week in Miami the time of possession looked the way it did partially cause Miami was moving up and down the field ... first drive of game was a 15 play Miami drive... nothing to do with O

 

Even though the D toughened at the end, the Fins absolutely carved up the vaunted ones on that first drive. Like a hot knife through butter.  You would have thought Rex would have it more together coming out of the locker room.

[JiFtheOracle]

bad offense doesn't explain the completion % against this defense. Last week in Miami the time of possession looked the way it did partially cause Miami was moving up and down the field ... first drive of game was a 15 play Miami drive... nothing to do with O

 

How many points did the defense give up on that drive? 

[CTM]

How many points did the defense give up on that drive? 

 

Considering I was talking about TOP an the offense taking the sole blame for it, I'm not sure it matters.

[whodeawhodat]

@CTM (since I cannot quote ATM)

 

The fish scored all of 6 pts the first half.  If you want to blame the defense for anything, I cant help you with that.

[billo83]

Jacked4JetsFB, on 03 Dec 2013 - 08:49 AM, said:

I really could care less whether you believe me or not. I am not going to name drop if that is what you are requesting. 

 

No, Ducasse and Hill were not Rex picks. Rex is not a scout, although he would scout certain players in positions he believed he was best suited to scout.

 

Rex set the roster priorities, he wanted to build a devastating defense and a strong running game. So  he would evaluate the roster and positions he believed he needed to accomplish that. The scouting department would scout and rank players, and ultimately he would chose the players based on their rankings at the positions he wanted to build around.

 

This is pretty much the exact system that Mangini setup here.

 

Something not a lot of people know is that Woody was the one who pretty much demanded they draft a QB in round 1 of 2009. He believed that drafting a QB that they could market as a franchise QB would help him to sell PSL's. The scouting department was not overly high on any of the 3 QB's coming out high that year. They knew they would not get Stafford, and they preferred Freeman over Sanchez. Rex liked Sanchez better. As it turns out both were a disaster, but Rex never thought he needed a QB since he really wanted to win with a running game and defense.

 

Hill was the first time that Rex was overruled. The org (including Tannenbaum and Woody) believed that there was a gaping hole developing at the WR position, and sought  out to draft a playmaker at WR. They gave Rex the first round pick he wanted, but the scouting dept loved Hill. They really believed he was going to be a monster. Rex had nothing against Hill in particular, he just did not want to draft a WR that early in the draft and thought you could get WR's in rounds 4-7.

 

Woody also was the one who demanded Tebow, neither Rex or Tannenbaum wanted any part of him, but did so to make Woody happy.

I could care less that you could care less that I believe you or not (sound like a clip from Get Smart, lol?) My main point here is that you should not make a statement like that without backing it up or you look like a troll. So as far as I'm concerned, you don't know any more details about this than the rest of us unless otherwise. I'm sure you can appreciate that.

 

Glad to see that you said Ducasse and Hill were not Rex picks. You were wrong when you said that the team was 100% Rex. 100% means every single personnel decision was made by Rex, and by your own admission that was not the case, These 2 picks were second rounders and set the team back.

 

I can agree with you to a certain extent that Rex set roster priorities, but I believe that Tanny leaned heavily on Bradway and the scouts on who was acquired. Tanny worked with Bradway for 8 years at the time of the Rex hire, so one would think that he sought out his advice.

 

Ultimately, yes Rex bears some responsibility in the roster makeup. But Tanny bears the most responsibility and Rex job is not to be a talent evaluator for the draft and/or FA

[Jacked4JetsFB]

I could care less that you could care less that I believe you or not (sound like a clip from Get Smart, lol?) My main point here is that you should not make a statement like that without backing it up or you look like a troll. So as far as I'm concerned, you don't know any more details about this than the rest of us unless otherwise. I'm sure you can appreciate that.

 

Glad to see that you said Ducasse and Hill were not Rex picks. You were wrong when you said that the team was 100% Rex. 100% means every single personnel decision was made by Rex, and by your own admission that was not the case, These 2 picks were second rounders and set the team back.

 

I can agree with you to a certain extent that Rex set roster priorities, but I believe that Tanny leaned heavily on Bradway and the scouts on who was acquired. Tanny worked with Bradway for 8 years at the time of the Rex hire, so one would think that he sought out his advice.

 

Ultimately, yes Rex bears some responsibility in the roster makeup. But Tanny bears the most responsibility and Rex job is not to be a talent evaluator for the draft and/or FA

 

Facts:

 

Tanny Mangini: start 4-12, finish 9-7

 

Tanny Rex: start 9-7, finish 6-10?

 

You can come to whatever conclusions your Rex love leads you to.

[billo83]

I agree that it was refreshing at the time. The problem is that Rex was a one trick pony and is completely unable to adapt. Rex is a very good DC, he is absolutely not a HC. The rest of the league has known this for years, the Jets gave him a shot which paid early dividends, but has been a disaster since. The roster is in shambles other than where he wanted to build it, which is not conducive to the modern NFL. Rex had no business being in a Bellicheck role, none. He should have known that and the org should have known that, and it was a huge failure from Rex right up to Woody that they all let it happen.

Yes I agree that Rex should not be in a Bellicheat role, but that is not what a HC should be, nor should he be evaluated as such when a decision is made.

 

I disagree with you about the rest of the league though. Some other team with defensive issues will take a flier on him as a HC. The difference I would imagine would be that the new team would have a competent GM in place, something the Jets haven't had in a long time. And Rex will be successful and JN will be complaining and whining on why Rex was fired.

[Jacked4JetsFB]

Yes I agree that Rex should not be in a Bellicheat role, but that is not what a HC should be, nor should he be evaluated as such when a decision is made.

 

I disagree with you about the rest of the league though. Some other team with defensive issues will take a flier on him as a HC. The difference I would imagine would be that the new team would have a competent GM in place, something the Jets haven't had in a long time. And Rex will be successful and JN will be complaining and whining on why Rex was fired.

 

If Rex was incapable of being in a Bellicheck type role, he should have not taken it, period.

 

To be a good HC in this league you have to know what you are and are not capable of, and find people who can fill in your gaps and compliment your strengths.

 

Rex simply did not do this.

 

He assumed the job, controlled the roster via his positional requests from the GM, hired possibly the worst OC in the history of the NFL, ignored the offense forever.

 

Tannenbaum was fine as a GM in the Bellicheck role, unqualified and horrible in a traditional GM role. Rex is an above average DC, not a HC in this league.

[billo83]

Facts:

 

Tanny Mangini: start 4-12, finish 9-7

 

Tanny Rex: start 9-7, finish 6-10?

 

You can come to whatever conclusions your Rex love leads you to.

I don't love Rex. If you have bothered to read my posts on the subject, you would see that I said I am up the middle on Rex. I can see valid reasons for retaining or firing him. I just don't agree with people like you that have an Anti-Rex agenda and try to say that the team is 100% his and everything is his fault. There is a myriad of problems with this team, and most notably at QB.

 

The Mangini to Rex comparison is ridiculous. Mangini had Favre and Penny and Rex has Geno and Sanchez. Seriously? Not to even mention who did better in the playoffs.

[Jacked4JetsFB]

I don't love Rex. If you have bothered to read my posts on the subject, you would see that I said I am up the middle on Rex. I can see valid reasons for retaining or firing him. I just don't agree with people like you that have an Anti-Rex agenda and try to say that the team is 100% his and everything is his fault. There is a myriad of problems with this team, and most notably at QB.

 

The Mangini to Rex comparison is ridiculous. Mangini had Favre and Penny and Rex has Geno and Sanchez. Seriously? Not to even mention who did better in the playoffs.

 

I don't have an anti-Rex agenda.

 

I have a what's best for the Jets agenda.

 

I don't think it's too much to ask to have an NFL caliber offense 5 years into his HC'ing tenure.

 

People want to blame everyone but Rex for the offense, yet think he is actually a HC. Really quite mind boggling.

 

Lets change the role of the HC to be DC not responsible for anything offense, or roster, or player development, or leadership, or clock management.

 

For the NYJ, as long as you are above average defensively, you are a good HC.

[billo83]

Jacked4JetsFB, on 04 Dec 2013 - 11:15 AM, said:

If Rex was incapable of being in a Bellicheck type role, he should have not taken it, period.

 

To be a good HC in this league you have to know what you are and are not capable of, and find people who can fill in your gaps and compliment your strengths.

 

Rex simply did not do this.

 

He assumed the job, controlled the roster via his positional requests from the GM, hired possibly the worst OC in the history of the NFL, ignored the offense forever.

 

Tannenbaum was fine as a GM in the Bellicheck role, unqualified and horrible in a traditional GM role. Rex is an above average DC, not a HC in this league.

He didn't accept a Bellicheat role, there was a GM in place. Do you seriously think Tanny told Rex he was going to be in a GM role when he was hired??

 

BTW a lot if not most HC's try to be quasi GM's. But most GM's are competent and base their opinions on a variety of factors.

[Jacked4JetsFB]

He didn't accept a Bellicheat role, there was a GM in place. Do you seriously think Tanny told Rex he was going to be in a GM role when he was hired??

 

BTW a lot if not most HC's try to be quasi GM's. But most GM's are competent and base their opinions on a variety of factors.

 

Do you really think Rex took the job, with an accountant acting as a GM and thought he was getting George Young as his GM?

[billo83]

I don't have an anti-Rex agenda.

 

I have a what's best for the Jets agenda.

 

I don't think it's too much to ask to have an NFL caliber offense 5 years into his HC'ing tenure.

 

People want to blame everyone but Rex for the offense, yet think he is actually a HC. Really quite mind boggling.

 

Lets change the role of the HC to be DC not responsible for anything offense, or roster, or player development, or leadership, or clock management.

 

For the NYJ, as long as you are above average defensively, you are a good HC.

You say you don't have an agenda, yet you say that this team is 100% Rex, but then admit Hill and Ducasse is not his doing? See something wrong there?

 

As far as the offense, lets also blame Tanny (mostly since he is responsible for acquiring talent), Schotty, Soprano, MM, Cavanaugh, Lee, and Woody.

 

The HC needs to delegate to others areas that he's not strong in. Schotty was forced on Rex, Soprano was an awful hiring and he takes full responsibility on that one, and MM was a good hire.

 

I'm not saying that Rex is great or without fault, but people are blaming him for everything around here. The biggest problem with this team is Woody and the GM's and the fact that no one can find a quality QB.

[Jacked4JetsFB]

You say you don't have an agenda, yet you say that this team is 100% Rex, but then admit Hill and Ducasse is not his doing? See something wrong there?

 

As far as the offense, lets also blame Tanny (mostly since he is responsible for acquiring talent), Schotty, Soprano, MM, Cavanaugh, Lee, and Woody.

 

The HC needs to delegate to others areas that he's not strong in. Schotty was forced on Rex, Soprano was an awful hiring and he takes full responsibility on that one, and MM was a good hire.

 

I'm not saying that Rex is great or without fault, but people are blaming him for everything around here. The biggest problem with this team is Woody and the GM's and the fact that no one can find a quality QB.

 

I am going to agree to disagree with you. Lets just extend Rex for as long as he wants to be here, and in 2025 when he still does not have a QB because we have not hit the QB lottery which it takes to have a good QB around here, we can blame GM 11 and GM 12, because Rex is an above average DC.

[billo83]

Jacked4JetsFB, on 04 Dec 2013 - 11:37 AM, said:

Do you really think Rex took the job, with an accountant acting as a GM and thought he was getting George Young as his GM?

I doubt he knew that much about Tanny going in. He was accepting a job as HC not GM or quasi GM.

 

Do you really think a coach going for his 1st HC job is going to really care that much about who the GM is? A retread certainly. But a coach who is hungry for HC job won't care. These jobs don't grow on trees and most guys aren't going to sit around and wait for the perfect opportunity to come along, as most likely it won't.