Of all the talented players Rex has destroyed and/or wasted

[RutgersJetFan]

So's your face, ber.

To be fair, Biff is the sh*t.

[AFJF]

How come Rex hasn't succeeded with Rex's formula?

 

Yes, he failed miserably.  Given the keys to the kingdom with Mark Sanchez and Geno Smith, but couldn't deliver.  Those two guys win a dozen rings between them before all is said and done.

[T0mShane]

Yes, he failed miserably. Given the keys to the kingdom with Mark Sanchez and Geno Smith, but couldn't deliver. Those two guys win a dozen rings between them before all is said and done.

Pettine and Marrone rolling with that fierce Hoyer-Orton combo. When are they getting those tattoos?

[AFJF]

Pettine and Marrone rolling with that fierce Hoyer-Orton combo. When are they getting those tattoos?

 

Your bias prevents you from having a real conversation...again.

[T0mShane]

Your bias prevents you from having a real conversation...again.

This is how these conversations go:

Me: <cites record, posits reason for record that implicates head coach in said record>

You: you're not in the locker room, so you don't known if that's true. P.S. Rex has been victimized by a vast conspiracy to surround him with hundreds of bad players, otherwise he's great.

Me: Oh?

You: You're not in the locker room.

[dbatesman]

Still nothing on those rainbows, huh.

[AFJF]

This is how these conversations go:

Me: <cites record, posits reason for record that implicates head coach in said record>

You: you're not in the locker room, so you don't known if that's true. P.S. Rex has been victimized by a vast conspiracy to surround him with hundreds of bad players, otherwise he's great.

Me: Oh?

You: You're not in the locker room.

 

You ignore the facts because it hurts your agenda.  I don't.

[faba]

We have the classic agree to disagree here which has been going on forever with Rex supporters and haters- continue

[AFJF]

We have the classic agree to disagree here which has been going on forever with Rex supporters and haters- continue

 

It'd be nice if it didn't mean every single thread had to be hijacked and brought to elementary school level  name calling. 

[dbatesman]

It'd be nice if it didn't mean every single thread had to be hijacked and brought to elementary school level name calling.

Please stay on topic.

[T0mShane]

You ignore the facts because it hurts your agenda. I don't.

The team is 2-8. They haven't been to the playoffs in four years. The head coach, who hasn't had a winning season since 2010, is on his second GM and QB.

You go.

[JiFtheOracle]

I'm looking forward to watching Jerricho Cotchery and Mark Sanchez show the Jets what they've been missing because of Rex Ryan tonight.

[Latinlawyer]

Lets clear this slate and state facts:

 

1) The Jets are currently 2-8.

 

2) The Jets have not made the Playoffs since 2010.

 

3) The Jets passing defense has been terrible for two years straight.

 

4) The Jets Offense is one of the worst in the NFL.

 

5) Geno Smith has more multi turnover (2 or more) games than games with no turnovers in his career over 1.5 years.

 

6) Prior to Harvin's arrival, the WR corp was one of the worst in the NFL.

 

Based on the foregoing, how can anyone argue that Rex can stay? Idzik should go as well but, regardless of what we think, we have at least 2 more years with his own hand picked HC.

 

LL

[AFJF]

The team is 2-8. They haven't been to the playoffs in four years. The head coach, who hasn't had a winning season since 2010, is on his second GM and QB.

You go.

 

Poor talent leads to poor results.  How you can continually dismiss the fact that he is coaching a team with no CB's and no QB in 2014 is beyond me.  If he drafted those players, that's on the owner and GM.  It is not his job to draft players.  He does not hold the title of GM and he does not get paid to be the GM.  Bring in a legitimate personnel man to bring in players and make the decisions, with of course, some input from the coaching staff.   

 

When the team had talent, he got results.  That's what I ask of a head coach.  I'm not going to crucify a guy for failing to be a miracle worker and finding a way to win with rookie project QB's.

[T0mShane]

Poor talent leads to poor results. How you can continually dismiss the fact that he is coaching a team with no CB's and no QB in 2014 is beyond me. If he drafted those players, that's on the owner and GM. It is not his job to draft players. He does not hold the title of GM and he does not get paid to be the GM. Bring in a legitimate personnel man to bring in players and make the decisions, with of course, some input from the coaching staff.

When the team had talent, he got results. That's what I ask of a head coach. I'm not going to crucify a guy for failing to be a miracle worker and finding a way to win with rookie project QB's.

No playoffs, no winning seasons in four years. No Super Bowls, no Division titles in six years. Losing record overall.

[sourceworx]

The team is 2-8. They haven't been to the playoffs in four years. The head coach, who hasn't had a winning season since 2010, is on his second GM and QB.

You go.

And that is a valid argument for why he should be fired. Because it's all based on facts.

[AFJF]

No playoffs, no winning seasons in four years. No Super Bowls, no Division titles in six years. Losing record overall.

 

Agreed....that's what happens when you  have no talent at key positions.  To any coach...not just Rex.

[T0mShane]

Agreed....that's what happens when you have no talent at key positions. To any coach...not just Rex.

Bruce Coslet. Same thing.

[Matt39]

Bruce Coslet. Same thing.

Jets first-round SS Calvin Pryor was benched in Week 10 for being late to multiple meetings this season.

[AFJF]

Bruce Coslet. Same thing.

 

I don't recall the success Coslet had, please refresh my memory.

[T0mShane]

I don't recall the success Coslet had, please refresh my memory.

You argued in another thread that being 2-8 right now is a relative success.

[T0mShane]

Jets first-round SS Calvin Pryor was benched in Week 10 for being late to multiple meetings this season.

Good. They shouldn't let him dress next game

[Matt39]

Good. They shouldn't let him dress next game

 

Type of overall complacency I was referring to. It trickles down....it's week 10. Now we bench him for being late?

[Integrity28]

Poor talent leads to poor results.  How you can continually dismiss the fact that he is coaching a team with no CB's and no QB in 2014 is beyond me.  If he drafted those players, that's on the owner and GM.  It is not his job to draft players.  He does not hold the title of GM and he does not get paid to be the GM.  Bring in a legitimate personnel man to bring in players and make the decisions, with of course, some input from the coaching staff.   

 

When the team had talent, he got results.  That's what I ask of a head coach.  I'm not going to crucify a guy for failing to be a miracle worker and finding a way to win with rookie project QB's.

 

You know, it is entirely possible that both the roster and the coach can be described as "poor talent". 

 

I've seen you mention "facts" I think somewhere in this thread. Then you make statements like "it's not Rex's job to draft players", when it is an established fact that every franchise writes their head coaching job description differently, and the Jets, for 6 years, have made player selection part of Rex's job.

 

It is inarguable that Rex has hand-picked certain players in the draft, in free agency and in trade, in addition to hand-picking the coaches he puts in charge of those players contributing and developing as part of this team. Selecting players is in part Rex's responsibility and he has shown "poor talent" at doing it.

 

It is inarguable that Rex routinely makes the same mistakes as a coach in-game. Also that he waits too long to make major adjustments over the course of a season. Not just this year, but every year we've seen him try and will things to work, rather than adjust. This shows that Rex has "poor talent" as doing this part of his job.

 

"There's no question" that Rex endears himself to the players, and they love him, but with that said, we've seen him lose this team... and we've seen him inspire this team. Which tells me that Rex isn't the integral part of that inspiration, it is the men the the locker room. The collection of guys he has this year and last rallied each other to win for their coach, like family. Whereas, a couple years ago, with divisive players in the room, he lost the team. This tells me that players find ways to be motivated, and that motivation doesn't flow from Rex. Being a motivator is the best thing anyone's been able to say about Rex for the past 2 years. I think he's mostly irrelevant in that equation. 

 

Rex will never be as bad as some people say he is, but he'll never be as good as others insist he is. The unfortunate part of this whole argument is the revisionist history used to excuse Rex from accountability for things that are in fact part of his job.

 

Poor talent. Sure, I'll buy that argument, but it's as much on the sidelines as it is on the field.

[The Crusher]

I'm looking forward to watching Jerricho Cotchery and Mark Sanchez show the Jets what they've been missing because of Rex Ryan tonight.

Be careful what you wish for sweet one.  Sanchez is likely to get hot under Chip Kelly and go 18-32 with for 186yds, 2 TD's, 2INT., 1 fumble loss.   #greatnessloss

[Integrity28]

You argued in another thread that being 2-8 right now is a relative success.

 

Is he trolling you?

[T0mShane]

Type of overall complacency I was referring to. It trickles down....it's week 10. Now we bench him for being late?

It's astonishing that any rookie would even get away with that one time on any NFL team.

[T0mShane]

Is he trolling you?

I think he's hallucinating.

[Matt39]

It's astonishing that any rookie would even get away with that one time on any NFL team.

 

Yeah but they play hard on Sunday.

[AFJF]

You know, it is entirely possible that both the roster and the coach can be described as "poor talent". 

 

I've seen you mention "facts" I think somewhere in this thread. Then you make statements like "it's not Rex's job to draft players", when it is an established fact that every franchise writes their head coaching job description differently, and the Jets, for 6 years, have made player selection part of Rex's job.

 

It is inarguable that Rex has hand-picked certain players in the draft, in free agency and in trade, in addition to hand-picking the coaches he puts in charge of those players contributing and developing as part of this team. Selecting players is in part Rex's responsibility and he has shown "poor talent" at doing it.

 

It is inarguable that Rex routinely makes the same mistakes as a coach in-game. Also that he waits too long to make major adjustments over the course of a season. Not just this year, but every year we've seen him try and will things to work, rather than adjust. This shows that Rex has "poor talent" as doing this part of his job.

 

"There's no question" that Rex endears himself to the players, and they love him, but with that said, we've seen him lose this team... and we've seen him inspire this team. Which tells me that Rex isn't the integral part of that inspiration, it is the men the the locker room. The collection of guys he has this year and last rallied each other to win for their coach, like family. Whereas, a couple years ago, with divisive players in the room, he lost the team. This tells me that players find ways to be motivated, and that motivation doesn't flow from Rex. Being a motivator is the best thing anyone's been able to say about Rex for the past 2 years. I think he's mostly irrelevant in that equation. 

 

Rex will never be as bad as some people say he is, but he'll never be as good as others insist he is. The unfortunate part of this whole argument is the revisionist history used to excuse Rex from accountability for things that are in fact part of his job.

 

Poor talent. Sure, I'll buy that argument, but it's as much on the sidelines as it is on the field.

 

Wow, I truly appreciate the very well thought out response since it's been lacking around here lately. You make some excellent points.  As far as player selection however, Mike Tannenbaum is on record as saying he made every single selection as the GM of the Jets aside from allowing Rex a single late round pick.  I'm not so sure that wasn't in jest if he was taking a guy he liked that he also knew Rex loved, but no matter.  After this draft, Rex said that Idzik let him pick Boyd which was a very late pick.  Ninety percent of those guys don't make it anyway so I have no issue letting a HC take a shot with a 6th/7th rounder.  As far as having input, every HC should have some input, but it's the GM's job to make the pick.  If It were Rex's job, I don't think Woody would pay a GM to do it, but I could be wrong. 

 

One trait Rex has that's great for him in the locker room, but bad for him on message boards is that he is fiercely loyal and optimistic with his players.  No matter who you give him, he'll say "we're good enough to beat you" even if he knows it's not true.  He talks his guys up to show them he has their backs.  Fans look at it and just think he doesn't know what he's talking about.  It's a shame to see high character traits get trampled on because his players aren't very good.

 

Rex, like every coach in the NFL, makes mistakes.  I keep hearing about  how much better Harbaugh would be since he's such a great disciplinarian.  All of this despite the fact that his team is more penalized that the Jets, and I've seen him lose his mind on multiple occasions this season when his QB burned a TO early in the game.  When that happens to the Jets, everyone says it's on the coaching, but some people want to replace him with a guy who's doing the same thing?  Harbaugh has infinitely more talent than Rex right now, yet he's barely over .500.

 

What gets lost on some people here is that I can live with Rex getting fired.  As I said to somebody earlier, pay to bring in an actual football person to run the show.  Let that person watch the games, look at the roster, talk to Rex, and make his decision.  If he's let go by a highly respected GM, so be it.  However, if he's let go by an unproven GM just one year after assembling a terrible roster with the worst QB in the league, it doesn't sit well with me.  I don't insist that Rex is great, but I do insist that he has exceeded what I would expect any other coach to be able to do with the rosters he's been given.  People blame development of the QB on Rex and his staff.  Is there anyone here who honestly believes that they've spent the last four years telling their QB's to throw in to triple coverage, or to throw to a receiver who is blanketed by a defender?  No coach is telling any QB to do that, but Jet QB's continue to do it.  I don't know how many coaches can overcome 20-25 INT seasons on a regular basis.

 

I hear too many analysts, former players, and former coaches continually saying he was put in a no win situation with this roster and I can't look at it from top to bottom and disagree. Give him some talent and a veteran QB who doesn't turn it over more than any other QB in the NFL and I believe he'll win.  I know that it won't happen.  I get it.  He's gone after this season because of public pressure and I'll wish him well.  He's a guy who has proven that he can be successful with a decent roster, and he's the only Jets coach I've seen other than Parcells that I didn't think was using this gig as a stepping stone to a better one.  This team has been like a developmental program for future great coaches.  Let them make all of their mistakes here, learn from them, and win somewhere else.

[dbatesman]

Look at this quality discourse we're having.

[AFJF]

You argued in another thread that being 2-8 right now is a relative success.

 

With this roster, it is.  With Coslet, he was an offensive guy who was given the opportunity to bring in  his hand picked QB who he'd worked with for years.  The Jets did a great job of keeping his top pupil upright and I believe allowed an NFL low in sacks that season.  As a result, the Jets were 21st in the NFL in points scored.  The offensive specialist HC had Terrance Mathis doing absolutely nothing before he went to Atlanta and became an all-world WR.  When a HC isn't good at doing what he specializes in when he picks the players, it's time to go.  So, if you can show me that Rex chose Dmitri Patterson as his #1 choice at CB, then I will 100% agree that it's time for him to go. 

[T0mShane]

Look at this quality discourse we're having.

Good in the locker room; bad on the message boards.

[RutgersJetFan]

It'd be nice if it didn't mean every single thread had to be hijacked and brought to elementary school level name calling.

How can you be so obtuse?

[Integrity28]

Wow, I truly appreciate the very well thought out response since it's been lacking around here lately. You make some excellent points.  As far as player selection however, Mike Tannenbaum is on record as saying he made every single selection as the GM of the Jets aside from allowing Rex a single late round pick.  I'm not so sure that wasn't in jest if he was taking a guy he liked that he also knew Rex loved, but no matter.  After this draft, Rex said that Idzik let him pick Boyd which was a very late pick.  Ninety percent of those guys don't make it anyway so I have no issue letting a HC take a shot with a 6th/7th rounder.  As far as having input, every HC should have some input, but it's the GM's job to make the pick.  If It were Rex's job, I don't think Woody would pay a GM to do it, but I could be wrong. 

 

One trait Rex has that's great for him in the locker room, but bad for him on message boards is that he is fiercely loyal and optimistic with his players.  No matter who you give him, he'll say "we're good enough to beat you" even if he knows it's not true.  He talks his guys up to show them he has their backs.  Fans look at it and just think he doesn't know what he's talking about.  It's a shame to see high character traits get trampled on because his players aren't very good.

 

Rex, like every coach in the NFL, makes mistakes.  I keep hearing about  how much better Harbaugh would be since he's such a great disciplinarian.  All of this despite the fact that his team is more penalized that the Jets, and I've seen him lose his mind on multiple occasions this season when his QB burned a TO early in the game.  When that happens to the Jets, everyone says it's on the coaching, but some people want to replace him with a guy who's doing the same thing?  Harbaugh has infinitely more talent than Rex right now, yet he's barely over .500.

 

What gets lost on some people here is that I can live with Rex getting fired.  As I said to somebody earlier, pay to bring in an actual football person to run the show.  Let that person watch the games, look at the roster, talk to Rex, and make his decision.  If he's let go by a highly respected GM, so be it.  However, if he's let go by an unproven GM just one year after assembling a terrible roster with the worst QB in the league, it doesn't sit well with me.  I don't insist that Rex is great, but I do insist that he has exceeded what I would expect any other coach to be able to do with the rosters he's been given.  People blame development of the QB on Rex and his staff.  Is there anyone here who honestly believes that they've spent the last four years telling their QB's to throw in to triple coverage, or to throw to a receiver who is blanketed by a defender?  No coach is telling any QB to do that, but Jet QB's continue to do it.  I don't know how many coaches can overcome 20-25 INT seasons on a regular basis.

 

I hear too many analysts, former players, and former coaches continually saying he was put in a no win situation with this roster and I can't look at it from top to bottom and disagree. Give him some talent and a veteran QB who doesn't turn it over more than any other QB in the NFL and I believe he'll win.  I know that it won't happen.  I get it.  He's gone after this season because of public pressure and I'll wish him well.  He's a guy who has proven that he can be successful with a decent roster, and he's the only Jets coach I've seen other than Parcells that I didn't think was using this gig as a stepping stone to a better one.  This team has been like a developmental program for future great coaches.  Let them make all of their mistakes here, learn from them, and win somewhere else.

 

Honestly, I stopped reading as soon as you, again, tried to use spin rather than facts to make Rex unaccountable for player selection. In my response, I cited that Rex not only influenced guys Tanny picked in the draft, but also guys he signed in FA and traded for. This isn't boxed in just to the "Rex pick" that Tanny gave him each draft. This is about a coach saying "this is what I need to succeed, which influences the selections and way the roster is built". To say Rex is only responsible for the Boyd's and John Connor's is ridiculous.

 

Look at how many defensive players we've taken in the first round since Rex has been here, with Tanny and Idzik both.

 

Let's go through the history of our drafts with Rex... first off, the very first selection: Sanchez. The story goes, Woody, Tanny and Rex went to see his pro-day and Rex declared "this is my guy". Sure, Tanny swung the trade but any unbiased, reasonable person can take from this that Rex had HUGE sway over that pick.

 

Revis. Do we really think Tanny picked Revis in a vacuum? Coples. Rex promised the guy we'd take him if he was there. This kind of thing creates a dynamic where the GM has to trump the beloved coach's "word". That pick is all Rex. Holmes, Rex said he signed off on it. Plaxico, Rex said go get him. Mason, Rex swore by this guy. 

 

So, not only were we giving Rex and uncontested selection late in drafts, which it appears we're still doing, but he had major influence over the re-architecture of this team after the Mangini squad dissipated. This isn't narrative, this is an account of things that happened, and Rex confirming for us the role he had in it. 

 

The biggest problem this team has had under Rex's regime is that nobody stood up to him on these roster decisions/requests, which puts the GM's (both of them) at fault, but it doesn't remove the fault from Rex. I'm embarrassed for people who can't see this for what it is.