Is Matt Simms Gone? Or can Petty go to the developmental squad?

[DaBallhawk]

Then why is its that Phils two sons go to the NFL, each with all the physical tools and both bomb because they suck. Actually they sucked in college too.

Other than Manning and Luck, how many other stars have come from bloodlines? 10s of thousands of football players over the years and only a small handful of sons make it. Why if it's a huge advantage as you say?

 

You just don't understand what I'm saying. There's a difference bewteen character and talent. Talent is not something you can teach somebody. You are born with it. Character, intangibles, is something you develop as you grow older.

[56mehl56]

Exactly, and his mom working 4 jobs to help pay the electric bills. What a nightmare for poor Matt.

 

 

Especially growing up in the mean streets of Franklin Lakes NJ, man he had to fight adversity every step of the way

[sirlancemehlot]

Simms has a lower ceiling and therefore he's gone.  He just doesn't have the size and arm strength to last in the NFL.  Looks like he puts his entire body into a 20 yard pass.

Wow.  That's simply not true.  I watched him throw alongside Sanchez and Geno at the public practice and he was by far the strongest arm of the the three and it wasn't even close.  The knock is he throws everything at high velocity and on a flat trajectory and lacks the ability to "touch" pass or put an arc on the deeper balls.  He's also 6'3" and 210 Lbs.

 

[Jetsfan80]

Can someone start a thread on predicted depth chart. I know it's early but these are always fun after the draft

 

Kind of made an attempt at that here:  

[Jet Nut]

Wow - I'm not sure what Fitz you've been watching - but its not the one who looked downright pitiful in Houston last year.

Not sure which Fitzpatrick you watched last season, if you say he was downright pitiful last season, you didn't watch at all.

He completed over 63% of his passes, was averaging over 200 yds per game, threw 17 TD's with only 8 INT's and over 95 QB rating. That's in no way downright pitiful.

[Jet Nut]

You just don't understand what I'm saying. There's a difference bewteen character and talent. Talent is not something you can teach somebody. You are born with it. Character, intangibles, is something you develop as you grow older.

You're not getting what you're saying. Simms kids both have all the physical tools to make it. You believe that being the child of Phil says "they'll work hard, they study, they never get in trouble, they are high character guys, very coachable. Those are the things you can just check off if you're a scout or a coach." Add these qualities to a kid with the physical tools of a Matt Simms he shouldn't suck anywhere near as much as he does. But he does.

[DaBallhawk]

You're not getting what you're saying. Simms kids both have all the physical tools to make it. You believe that being the child of Phil says "they'll work hard, they study, they never get in trouble, they are high character guys, very coachable. Those are the things you can just check off if you're a scout or a coach." Add these qualities to a kid with the physical tools of a Matt Simms he shouldn't suck anywhere near as much as he does. But he does.

 

[RSJ]

Any of the four of them could be gone. It could be Geno as much as it could be Simms.

[TuscanyTile2]

Simms reminds me of Jimmy Clausen a lot. He's got everything but he just makes completely boneheaded throws/decisions every once in a while. In terms of arm talent and intangibles I think he can be an NFL starter, he just has to take care of the ball and not force things that aren't there. Maybe that was just him being young trying to take advantage of the limited opportunities young QB's like him get in the NFL, trying to make an impression. But he can't do that. Jimmy Clausen has learned from his mistakes as a rookie. A couple years later and he's a completely different guy. Takes care of the ball, very accurate. He looked really good last year with the Bears. Simms is in his 3rd year now, he's 26, if he doesn't get it now it's probably the end of the road for him.

 

And for the love of God, enough with this arm strength crap. The guy has a laser, he's firing bullets.

 

If Claussen can "get it" then I don't see why Simms can't.  I think he just needs a chance.  The previous regime definitely wasn't going to give him a chance and the drafting of Petty makes me question what the current regime thinks of him.  I guess I'll hope against hope he gets a chance.  It would really be painful if we cut him and he goes on to be a good QB w/ another team, while we're stuck watching Geno have more 3 INT games (and who was only given another chance because of a perfect game in meaningless week 17).

[56mehl56]

Not sure which Fitzpatrick you watched last season, if you say he was downright pitiful last season, you didn't watch at all.

He completed over 63% of his passes, was averaging over 200 yds per game, threw 17 TD's with only 8 INT's and over 95 QB rating. That's in no way downright pitiful.I'm sorry 

I'm sorry stats don't tell the whole story. First off he had arguably the best RB in the league in Foster. Second take away two "anamoly" games against Tenn where he had 6 Td's  and against Oak two woeful defensive teams  and his stats become downright pedestrian. 

 

There's a reason he was replaced late in the season by Ryan Mallet - he flat out stunk. 

 

If he plays we're in trouble as it means Geno hasn't taken a step forward under new offensive leadership and with much improved weapons. For those wanting Fitz to be the starting QB , you better hope Petty develops quickly or the Jets will be drafting yet another QB next year. I watched parts of his games against the Giants, Colts, Eagles , Cowboys last year and  I came away less than impressed - but hey I guess he's smart he must be good right ???

[TuscanyTile2]

What are you talking about? He's 6'3" 210+.

 

Thank you.  Some people on here (not you, obviously) just spew nonsense.

[TuscanyTile2]

IMO it speaks to how horribly abused Jets Fans are when it comes to competent QB play, how so many of us cling, and cling in such extremism, to #3 borderline talents like a Simms, or a Ratliff, or....well, any Jets #2/#3 QB of the past 20 or so years.  I'm a victim of it myself, have no doubts.

 

It's rather sad, honestly.  But it speaks so clearly to how much this franchise has failed us when it comes to legitimate #1 QB play.  We literally MUST reach and express asinine unrealistic hopes about #3 fringe guys, because every year it seems, our #1 guy is a walking pile of sh*te.

 

I know what you're saying but my point is more about dealing w/ the reality of what we have on this roster.  We haven't been able to draft a Brady/Manning/Luck type QB.  We have a possible great defense where the core will likely only be together for 2-3 years (Revis in particular).  We have to try to maximize what we have during that time.  Our QBs are Fitz/Geno/Simms/Petty.  Petty doesn't sound like he's going to be ready for a while.  Fitz is coming back from injury.  Geno sucks.  Simms has a very strong arm, looked reasonably mobile, looked decisive and has outstanding pedigree.  Fitz's ceiling is "mediocre".  Geno's ceiling is the basement.  Petty is going to be a while.  At least in Simms we have the unknown.  At the very least I don't see why people are so convinced Geno is worth keeping over him. 

[TuscanyTile2]

Bloodlines mean very little in pro sports.

 

You don't think that helped Eli get drafted #1 overall?

[Jetsfan80]

You don't think that helped Eli get drafted #1 overall?

 

He also ended up winning two Super Bowls.  

 

What rounds did Chris and Matt Simms get taken?

[TuscanyTile2]

Then why is its that Phils two sons go to the NFL, each with all the physical tools and both bomb because they suck. Actually they sucked in college too.

Other than Manning and Luck, how many other stars have come from bloodlines? 10s of thousands of football players over the years and only a small handful of sons make it. Why if it's a huge advantage as you say?

 

There are between 64-96 of these jobs.  We have Archie, Peyton and Eli Manning as well as Luck.  Compare that to the percentage of "non-NFL-bloodline" QBs.  It's probably a pretty high percentage when you do the math. 

[slats]

I know what you're saying but my point is more about dealing w/ the reality of what we have on this roster.  We haven't been able to draft a Brady/Manning/Luck type QB.  We have a possible great defense where the core will likely only be together for 2-3 years (Revis in particular).  We have to try to maximize what we have during that time.  Our QBs are Fitz/Geno/Simms/Petty.  Petty doesn't sound like he's going to be ready for a while.  Fitz is coming back from injury.  Geno sucks.  Simms has a very strong arm, looked reasonably mobile, looked decisive and has outstanding pedigree.  Fitz's ceiling is "mediocre".  Geno's ceiling is the basement.  Petty is going to be a while.  At least in Simms we have the unknown.  At the very least I don't see why people are so convinced Geno is worth keeping over him. 

 

You think Geno sucks, and that his ceiling is in the basement. Who do you honestly believe is more likely to be cut, though, Geno or Simms? 

[TuscanyTile2]

He also ended up winning two Super Bowls.  

 

What rounds did Chris and Matt Simms get taken?

 

You're ignoring something pretty significant.  At the time Eli was drafted he had not won 2 superbowls.

[Jetsfan80]

You're ignoring something pretty significant.  At the time Eli was drafted he had not won 2 superbowls.

 

I'm ignoring nothing.  Eli was drafted # 1 primarily for his talent.  Again, where were Chris and Matt Simms taken?

[TuscanyTile2]

You think Geno sucks, and that his ceiling is in the basement. Who do you honestly believe is more likely to be cut, though, Geno or Simms? 

 

Absolutely I think Simms is more likely to be cut.  No argument there.  I just hate the thought of that because I believe in Matt Simms (at least that he deserves a real shot).  I fully understand I could be wrong here (and have a lot of people who disagree w/ me).  But if Villain can defend Mike Glennon, I can defend Matt Simms.

[TuscanyTile2]

I'm ignoring nothing.  Eli was drafted # 1 primarily for his talent.  Again, where were Chris and Matt Simms taken?

 

I don't remember but not very high.  Regardless both were in NFL camps.  I think Chris was on an NFL roster for a couple of seasons too (obviously Matt has been as well). 

[Jetsfan80]

Absolutely I think Simms is more likely to be cut.  No argument there.  I just hate the thought of that because I believe in Matt Simms (at least that he deserves a real shot).  I fully understand I could be wrong here (and have a lot of people who disagree w/ me).  But if Villain can defend Mike Glennon, I can defend Matt Simms.

 

Nope, not at all, really.  Glennon was the 73rd overall pick in the 2013 draft and has 29 TD's/15 INT's in 2 seasons in the league.  Simms went undrafted, has thrown exactly 39 pro passes despite playing for a QB-starved franchise, and is basically terrible.  Glennon has more TD's (29) than Simms has completions (19) in his career so far, in the same span of 2 years.

 

As much as we make fun of Villain for his obsession of Glennon, he's in another stratosphere as an NFL QB when compared to Matt Simms.  The fact that Lovie Smith hates Glennon is nothing compared to how much every GM/coach has hated Simms.  He's had numerous opportunities to rise up our sh*tty depth chart and has done nothing to prove he can do it.  If Simms had any ability whatsoever we wouldn't have brought in both Fitzpatrick and Petty, plus signed a UDFA QB to boot.  

 

Glennon at worst will be a capable backup in the NFL.  Simms, once cut by us, might as well see if the CFL has any openings.  He'll get basically the same treatment fellow ex-Jet QB's Greg McElroy and Brett Ratliff got.

[TuscanyTile2]

Not really.  Glennon was the 73rd overall pick in the 2013 draft and has 29 TD's/15 INT's in 2 seasons in the league.  Simms went undrafted, has thrown exactly 39 pro passes despite playing for a QB-starved franchise, and is basically terrible.  Glennon has more TD's (29) than Simms has completions (19) in his career so far, in the same span of 2 years.

 

As much as we make fun of Villain for his obsession of Glennon, he's in another stratosphere as an NFL QB when compared to Matt Simms.  The fact that Lovie Smith hates Glennon is nothing compared to how much every coach has hated Simms.  He's had numerous opportunities to rise up our sh*tty depth chart and has done nothing to prove he can do it.  Glennon at worst will be a capable backup in the NFL.  Simms, once cut by us, might as well see if the CFL has any openings.  He'll get basically the same treatment fellow ex-Jet QB's Greg McElroy and Brett Ratliff got.

 

 

I don't disagree w/ your point that Glennon has accomplished a lot more than Simms.  I didn't mean that their accomplishments are on par.  Just that he believes in an unproven guy and I believe in a more unproven guy.  But they're still both unproven. 

 

I also want to say that I could easily be wrong in my assessment of Simms.  You (and others) are absolutely correct that nobody seems to be banging down the door for him.  Sometimes GMs get it wrong though.  Kurt Warner came from nowhere.  Tom Brady was a 6th rounder, etc.  I know those are the exceptions, not the rule.  However, I see a kid w/ great pedigree and attitude who is fairly mobile, decisive and has a strong arm.  I don't see why a kid like that can't be "coached up".  Greg McElroy was a #3 QB for crying out loud.  He was abominable.  Geno has some good physical traits but so does Simms.  I don't see why Geno is considered the better prospect.  I realize I'm probably wrong in my assessment but I will still hold out against hope that Simms at least gets a fair chance here.  I'm definitely rooting for him.  Btw, this is not to say I'm not rooting for any of these guys to succeed.  Of course I'll be thrilled if any of them (Geno included) play well.  We have a potentially great D and reasonably solid O.  Our main weakness is at 1 position. Unfortunately it's the most critical position on the field. 

[Larz]

simms cleared waivers last season.  he is basically lucky to have been on the 53 last year

 

next

[Jetsfan80]

simms cleared waivers last season.  he is basically lucky to have been on the 53 last year

 

next

 

So essentially not a single NFL GM out there values Simms more or equally as high as John Idzik, whose judgment on young talent need not even be discussed.  

 

This is even more evidence that Simms is essentially viewed league-wide as a 4th string QB.  Our current GM agrees with that assessment.  And some teams don't even carry 3 anymore.

 

I do hope he's briefly picked up by some team as camp fodder and throws a preseason TD for somebody, just so we can have a Why-did-we-cut-Matt-Simms outrage thread.

[TuscanyTile2]

simms cleared waivers last season. he is basically lucky to have been on the 53 last year

next

I don't disagree. Keep in mind that GMs make mistakes. Kurt Warner was a nobody. Brady was a 6th rounder. Etc

[Jetsfan80]

I don't disagree. Keep in mind that GMs make mistakes. Kurt Warner was a nobody. Brady was a 6th rounder. Etc

 

Brady also showed an ability to ascend a depth chart.  When he arrived in New England he told everybody that would listen that he was going to make them glad that he was taken.  He worked his ass off and impressed the coaches.  Thus, when Bledsoe went down, he was the # 2 QB, ready to go and make history.  Similar story with Kurt Warner; there's a reason he was the # 2 QB behind Trent Green when that injury happened.

 

Simms couldn't even beat out Michael Vick for backup duties last season.  The year before, Mark Sanchez  went down, leaving him in a backup role behind Geno.  He got his shot and blew it in Week 13, coming in and going 9-18 for 79 yards and 1 INT.  You have to take advantage of your opportunities in this league.  He hasn't.

[Larz]

I don't disagree. Keep in mind that GMs make mistakes. Kurt Warner was a nobody. Brady was a 6th rounder. Etc

 

sure but this is with lots of film out there on him.  doing the salsa dance doesn't impress gm's I guess

 

you get 3 years to prove you can play for about 95% of the league.  his expiration date is coming up

[TuscanyTile2]

Brady also showed an ability to ascend a depth chart. When he arrived in New England he told everybody that would listen that he was going to make them glad that he was taken. He worked his ass off and impressed the coaches. Thus, when Bledsoe went down, he was the # 2 QB, ready to go and make history. Similar story with Kurt Warner; there's a reason he was the # 2 QB behind Trent Green when that injury happened.

Simms couldn't even beat out Michael Vick for backup duties last season. The year before, Mark Sanchez went down, leaving him in a backup role behind Geno. He got his shot and blew it in Week 13, coming in and going 9-18 for 79 yards and 1 INT. You have to take advantage of your opportunities in this league. He hasn't.

I'll disagree w you here. We didn't have a QB competition last year. Geno was anointed the starter and Vick was promised #2 (with the possibility of playing time) as an incentive to sign here. Rex never had a QB competition at any time in his tenure.  Heck, if Rex were the HC of the Seahawks, he would've gotten a Matt Flynn tattoo and very possibly might never have given Russell Wilson a chance. 

[Jetsfan80]

I'll disagree w you here. We didn't have a QB competition last year. Geno was anointed the starter and Vick was promised #2 (with the possibility of playing time) as an incentive to sign here. Rex never had a QB competition at any time in his tenure.

 

If you're going to pull the Rex card, also remember how terrible we were at evaluating QB's (not just coaching them up, evaluating before they arrived) during the entire Rex era.  Do you really think that despite whiffing on Sanchez, Geno, McElroy, Vick, etc. that we somehow found a gem in Matt Simms and didn't know it?  And if Simms is really a player, why did Macc/Bowles/Chan opt to bring in 3 new QB's this early into their tenures?  Did they miss on their evaluation of Simms too?

 

Come on.  

[TuscanyTile2]

If you're going to pull the Rex card, also remember how terrible we were at evaluating QB's (not just coaching them up, evaluating before they arrived) during the entire Rex era. Do you really think that despite whiffing on Sanchez, Geno, McElroy, Vick, etc. that we somehow found a gem in Matt Simms and didn't know it? And if Simms is really a player, why did Macc/Bowles/Chan opt to bring in 3 new QB's this early into their tenures? Did they miss on their evaluation of Simms too?

Come on.

I've already said its entirely possible I'm wrong but I still don't see why he doesn't deserve a chance compared to the group we've got.

[Jetsfan80]

I've already said its entirely possible I'm wrong but I still don't see why he doesn't deserve a chance compared to the group we've got.

 

There's no job for him to compete for.  We're not cutting Fitz, Geno or Petty, and we're not carrying 4 QB's.  We might keep him around while Fitz heals, giving him a chance to compete for temporary # 3 QB duties with that UDFA we signed.  But that's about it. 

[TuscanyTile2]

There's no job for him to compete for.  We're not cutting Fitz, Geno or Petty, and we're not carrying 4 QB's.  We might keep him around while Fitz heals, giving him a chance to compete for temporary # 3 QB duties with that UDFA we signed.  But that's about it. 

 

Petty is a developmental QB who supposedly needs at least 2 years of clipboard time.  That leaves us w/ Fitz and Geno.  Fitz is coming off injury and Geno stinks.  I think we actually do have a need for a #3 QB who can actually play.  Then again, I don't think Simms should truly be our #3.  For all I know, he's our best QB.  That said, I think you're going to be proven right that he'll be cut and that we'll end up suffering through another season of Geno (w/ some Fitz).

[Jetsfan80]

Petty is a developmental QB who supposedly needs at least 2 years of clipboard time.  That leaves us w/ Fitz and Geno.  Fitz is coming off injury and Geno stinks.  I think we actually do have a need for a #3 QB who can actually play.  Then again, I don't think Simms should truly be our #3.  For all I know, he's our best QB.  That said, I think you're going to be proven right that he'll be cut and that we'll end up suffering through another season of Geno (w/ some Fitz).

 

Regardless of your opinion of Petty he'll still require one of the valuable spots on the 53-man roster.  If we place him on the practice squad he'll get scooped up.  

 

With all the competitions we're going to have all over the roster next season, there is absolutely no chance in hell Simms gets carried as a 4th QB.  None.  Your only "hope" is that Fitz's recovery time is much longer than initially thought.

 

A healthy Fitz will be our Week 1 starter.  I'm about 92 % confident of that.  So you won't have to suffer through a Geno season.  New regimes always mean new QB's.  It is in the best interests of our front office and coaching staff to go with Fitzpatrick.  A team that added as much talent as we did this offseason has to hand the keys to a veteran QB rather than a turnover machine like Geno.

 

By 2016 we'll be looking for another new QB and Geno will be gone (with Simms long gone, cut some time before this upcoming season).

[Ken Schroy]

Simms is gone. He had his chance. Petty will never see the PS.

[JohnnyLV]

Simms is gone, ZERO chance of getting Petty on the PS. Zero.