jgb Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 I'm sick of the games we win being the 12-9 variety and the games we lose being the 35-16 blowouts. Hopefully, Bowles can rectify this phenomenon that seemed to plague even "good" Ryan teams... the margin of error is just too narrow to be consistent winners in the league like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
32EBoozer Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Its a great question, if Geno is the same Geno we have seen for two years, and they give him the first quarter of the season to show it then what? They bring in Fitz after the bye and he plays 12 games and misses the playoffs, then what? Do we draft a QB in first round? Then we waisted a forth round pick this year. Do we give Petty 2016 and hope? If we do that then he gets 2017 and 2018 according to the Geno supporters you can't give up on a QB till after year three. If Geno fails this year the NYJ are screwed for years to come. Yes, best thing is Geno being a totally diffrent QB this year, but when he is not, I don't think there is any saving of the season. You don't necessarily need to take a QB in the 1st... maybe you do like the Packers did for awhile and take developmental QB's each yr. and hope some develop. If not... all you've wasted is a 4th or 5th. If you hit on one like Brady.... BINGO. If you pick a 1st rd. Bust.... then you've got some work to do moving forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JiFtheOracle Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 When he put up 21+ points as a legit starter in the NFL (from 2008 and beyond), he went 20-18. I.E. nearly half the time his defenses failed him when he did his job. It also means that in his 84 starts as a pro QB, he's done his job in 57 % of them. That's a pretty solid rate, I'd say. Compare that to the Jets, who went 46-12 since 2009, including 20-3 in the first 2 years of the Sanchez era. Almost every time Sanchez and Geno have put up 21+, the Jets have won. This means the defense's supporting Sanchez and Geno have been far superior to Fitz's, as we know. Pair Fitz with the 2009-2014 Jet defenses or even anything close to that, and you would likely be nearly flipping that W-L record in the other direction. But numbers are ghey and stuff so whatevs. Is this supposed to be some type of pro-Fitzpatrick stat? I'm pretty sure most QB's have high winning percentage if they score of 21+ pts. What happened when they didnt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted June 25, 2015 Author Share Posted June 25, 2015 Is this supposed to be some type of pro-Fitzpatrick stat? I'm pretty sure most QB's have high winning percentage if they score of 21+ pts. What happened when they didnt? Most QBs should have a good record when scoring 21 or more points. However, that wasn't the case with Fitzpatrick. His defenses were so bad that he's barely over 500 when the offense produces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JiFtheOracle Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Most QBs should have a good record when scoring 21 or more points. However, that wasn't the case with Fitzpatrick. His defenses were so bad that he's barely over 500 when the offense produces. His defense were also compensating for his turnovers too. A situation we're very familiar with. Go look at those games they didnt score 21pts. He was awful. And FWIW, while he was in Buffalo, the offense only out ranked the defense once out of his 4 years starting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
32EBoozer Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 And FWIW, while he was in Buffalo, the offense only out ranked the defense once out of his 4 years starting. Apples and Oranges JiF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JiFtheOracle Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Apples and Oranges JiF. How so? The thread is about how the defense held him back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
32EBoozer Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 How so? The thread is about how the defense held him back. Comparing how Bills offense and defense were ranked comparatively at the end of the season. This is the apple and orange part I alluded to. "And FWIW, while he was in Buffalo, the offense only out ranked the defense once out of his 4 years starting." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted June 25, 2015 Author Share Posted June 25, 2015 Comparing how Bills offense and defense were ranked comparatively at the end of the season. This is the apple and orange part I alluded to. "And FWIW, while he was in Buffalo, the offense only out ranked the defense once out of his 4 years starting." And part of the reason I went back to look at it game by game. A handful of great/terrible performances can significantly skew numbers by the end of the year when you only play sixteen games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
32EBoozer Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 And part of the reason I went back to look at it game by game. A handful of great/terrible performances can significantly skew numbers by the end of the year when you only play sixteen games. Exactly. You just can't look at the stats at the end of a season to truly gauge how a player, and especially a QB, played. Again, thanks for putting the time in Glen. Hoping Geno plays all 16, but he just loses his concentration too often and makes dumb mistakes. Fitz head is always in the game... yes, he makes mistakes... but they tend to be from him gambling.... not panicking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JiFtheOracle Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Comparing how Bills offense and defense were ranked comparatively at the end of the season. This is the apple and orange part I alluded to. "And FWIW, while he was in Buffalo, the offense only out ranked the defense once out of his 4 years starting." Are those stats that's not a portrayal of how the team performed? During the Fitz years in Buffalo, the offense was 28th, 28th, 14th, and 21st in scoring...but it was the defense fault? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
32EBoozer Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Are those stats that's not a portrayal of how the team performed? During the Fitz years in Buffalo, the offense was 28th, 28th, 14th, and 21st in scoring...but it was the defense fault? I refer you back to the post you originally took issue with. I think it's self explanatory. Jetsfan80, on 24 Jun 2015 - 11:29 AM, said: When he put up 21+ points as a legit starter in the NFL (from 2008 and beyond), he went 20-18. I.E. nearly half the time his defenses failed him when he did his job. It also means that in his 84 starts as a pro QB, he's done his job in 57 % of them. That's a pretty solid rate, I'd say. Compare that to the Jets, who went 46-12 since 2009, including 20-3 in the first 2 years of the Sanchez era. Almost every time Sanchez and Geno have put up 21+, the Jets have won. This means the defense's supporting Sanchez and Geno have been far superior to Fitz's, as we know. Pair Fitz with the 2009-2014 Jet defenses or even anything close to that, and you would likely be nearly flipping that W-L record in the other direction. But numbers are ghey and stuff so whatevs. I think that Fits did enough to win in many games but the other teams "O" got the better of the "D". I'd sign up for 21+ pts/game... we be in the playoffs this yr. if we get that kind of production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted June 25, 2015 Author Share Posted June 25, 2015 Exactly. You just can't look at the stats at the end of a season to truly gauge how a player, and especially a QB, played. Again, thanks for putting the time in Glen. Hoping Geno plays all 16, but he just loses his concentration too often and makes dumb mistakes. Fitz head is always in the game... yes, he makes mistakes... but they tend to be from him gambling.... not panicking. Yep...short season is better looked at in terms of "how often did this guy give his team a chance to win" IMO. Even when Fitz had one of his better years in Buffalo, he had a horrid three-game stretch in which I believe the Bills scored just 26 pointsand another game in which the scored just 10. That's four clunkers that would kill your overall stats if you just look at the average at the end of the season, but in the other twelve games they scored 41, 38, 34, 20 31, 24, 23, 24, 17, 23, 40, 21. If the Jets offense did that this season, they could pull out 10-12 wins. I'd take that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pac Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 holy crap these guys are still doing that thing where they're holding their breaths until Fitz is named the starter? Can't wait to see them try and explain why Geno is starting the 3rd preseason game and how that doesn't mean he's going to start the season. get a grip guys, Eugene Cyril Smith III is your starting NY Jets QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYs Stepchild Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 I watched all the games Harvard played in last year, and I can tell you he looks like a real QB. Compared to what I've become accustom to I would be very excited to see that every week. You will all be clamoring for him after you see what that looks like in preseason, unless of course Geno has an epiphany. I'd be very happy if he does...but he won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted June 25, 2015 Author Share Posted June 25, 2015 holy crap these guys are still doing that thing where they're holding their breaths until Fitz is named the starter? Can't wait to see them try and explain why Geno is starting the 3rd preseason game and how that doesn't mean he's going to start the season. get a grip guys, Eugene Cyril Smith III is your starting NY Jets QB. Who said he wasn't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jethead Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 One 80 catch season and two 1,000 yard seasons in 8 seasons out of a top 15 pick? Yeah, I'd consider him a bust. I'm also very fine with calling Braylon and Santonio busts as well. In Santonio's case, mostly for his fall from grace in Pittsburgh after his Super Bowl MVP. No one is saying the Jets ever had good weapons. Just not the awful, bottom of the barrel weapons people like to say they were when making excuses for our QB's. And certainly no worse than what Fitz had from 2009-2013. a$$hole and bust are not synonyms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JiFtheOracle Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 I refer you back to the post you originally took issue with. I think it's self explanatory. Jetsfan80, on 24 Jun 2015 - 11:29 AM, said: I think that Fits did enough to win in many games but the other teams "O" got the better of the "D". I'd sign up for 21+ pts/game... we be in the playoffs this yr. if we get that kind of production. None of that means anything in the grand scheme of things. He wins when they score, so do most QB's. Problem was, when they didnt, it was mostly his fault. And blaming a D that was categorically better than the offense, doesnt make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
32EBoozer Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 None of that means anything in the grand scheme of things. He wins when they score, so do most QB's. Problem was, when they didnt, it was mostly his fault. And blaming a D that was categorically better than the offense, doesnt make sense. Oh well.... I guess we're on different ends of the spectrum on this one. Either way, we both want to see the Jets win, no matter who the QB is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohio State NY Jets fan Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 I think Petty doesn't see the field this year, except for Pre-season clean up duty and as the scout team QB. Let the QB coach work with him and get him ready for 2016 camp. Then we'll get an opportunity to see what we have. If we're out of the playoff picture by week 14, I'd think they let Petty get a couple of games under his belt and see how he does. Maybe he convinces them there is no need to take a QB in Rd. 1 of the 2016 draft. It's not like Rodgers trying to unseat Favre.This guy could actually make some noise next year. If we take a Day 1 QB next year, I'm not sure how the Jets will handle Petty Sort of like the TB situation with Winston and Glennon. Glennon looked OK when given a chance. Now he's basically a backup with no chance of starting unless Winston sucks big time. Hoping we can avoid the Glennon/Mettenberger situation, hence the push to see what we have in Petty I will be happy any way the Jets find a franchise QB also would be happy to win a SB with a game manager great thread (Thanks AF) and discussion especially for June, should be interesting to watch it play out in the fall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted June 25, 2015 Author Share Posted June 25, 2015 Hoping we can avoid the Glennon/Mettenberger situation, hence the push to see what we have in Petty I will be happy any way the Jets find a franchise QB also would be happy to win a SB with a game manager great thread (Thanks AF) and discussion especially for June, should be interesting to watch it play out in the fall My pleasure....I know we're all pretty fired up about the season..should be a great one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohio State NY Jets fan Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Its a great question, if Geno is the same Geno we have seen for two years, and they give him the first quarter of the season to show it then what? They bring in Fitz after the bye and he plays 12 games and misses the playoffs, then what? Do we draft a QB in first round? Then we wasted a forth round pick this year. Do we give Petty 2016 and hope? If we do that then he gets 2017 and 2018 according to the Geno supporters you can't give up on a QB till after year three. If Geno fails this year the NYJ are screwed for years to come. Yes, best thing is Geno being a totally different QB this year, but when he is not, I don't think there is any saving of the season. Exactly why Geno must win the starting job or ride the bench to start the season, also why the starter must be on a quick hook or this season will be over quickly 2-2 is possible with decent QB play so do the Jets need to start 1-3 or worse to make a change after the bye? then next QB(s) have to win 75% of games for the Jets to make the playoffs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdetroit Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 Hoping we can avoid the Glennon/Mettenberger situation, hence the push to see what we have in Petty I will be happy any way the Jets find a franchise QB also would be happy to win a SB with a game manager great thread (Thanks AF) and discussion especially for June, should be interesting to watch it play out in the fall You guys who want Petty to play this year lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohio State NY Jets fan Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 You guys who want Petty to play this year lol Do you think the Jets should draft a QB in the first round next year, if they do not win 8 games with this team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizard King Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 Max you better keep your ears up, you are going to lose AF to SI one of these days. Nice piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 None of that means anything in the grand scheme of things. He wins when they score, so do most QB's. Problem was, when they didnt, it was mostly his fault. And blaming a D that was categorically better than the offense, doesnt make sense. The team losing nearly half the time he put up 21+ says you're wrong. And of course it was Fitz's fault when he failed to put up 21+. That's what we're saying. When a QB doesn't do his job a loss should be expected. But when he DOES do his job, he shouldn't be 20-18. More often than not, Fitz HAS done his job, which is more than you can say about Sanchez and Geno. When Sanchez and Geno have done their job, they've won nearly 80 % of the time. It's a statistical anomaly that makes your argument of Fitz being a "career loser" seem pretty flawed when juxtaposed with our QB history since '09. Sanchez especially was a career loser who got lucky he had a stellar defense around him. Even Geno had a really strong D in that 8-8 season. It was only in 2014 when that fell apart. Meanwhile, the ONLY time in Fitz's career that he had stellar defensive play was this past season in Houston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 Really the only solid argument against what this article is the one Dom suggested: Fitz only put up so many 21+ pt games because he was trailing and scored in garbage time. But hell, I'll take the QB who makes games interesting in the end over the guy who falls behind, implodes, and ends up creating an even worse blowout loss. In Geno's career to date he's already had 7 games that could be considered "blowout losses" (losses by 20+ points). Certainly not ALL of them are his fault but he was definitely a top 3 reason for why each of those games went from bad to worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted June 26, 2015 Author Share Posted June 26, 2015 Really the only solid argument against what this article is the one Dom suggested: Fitz only put up so many 21+ pt games because he was trailing and scored in garbage time. But hell, I'll take the QB who makes games interesting in the end over the guy who falls behind, implodes, and ends up creating an even worse blowout loss. In Geno's career to date he's already had 7 games that could be considered "blowout losses" (losses by 20+ points). Certainly not ALL of them are his fault but he was definitely a top 3 reason for why each of those games went from bad to worse. I thought about including games that were blowouts but didn't want to get too long winded. There were a few games that stood where Buffalo was down by 20+ by the third quarter but those games were few and far between. Majority of those games were still close enough that defenses weren't going to just sit back and let Buffalo move down the field because the game was out of reach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 I thought about including games that were blowouts but didn't want to get too long winded. There were a few games that stood where Buffalo was down by 20+ by the third quarter but those games were few and far between. Majority of those games were still close enough that defenses weren't going to just sit back and let Buffalo move down the field because the game was out of reach. So more often than not in his career, Ryan Fitzpatrick has put his teams in a position to win. Not since 2008 have we had a QB capable of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whodeawhodat Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 Are those stats that's not a portrayal of how the team performed? During the Fitz years in Buffalo, the offense was 28th, 28th, 14th, and 21st in scoring...but it was the defense fault? Weaponzzzzz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JiFtheOracle Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 Really the only solid argument against what this article is the one Dom suggested: Fitz only put up so many 21+ pt games because he was trailing and scored in garbage time. But hell, I'll take the QB who makes games interesting in the end over the guy who falls behind, implodes, and ends up creating an even worse blowout loss. In Geno's career to date he's already had 7 games that could be considered "blowout losses" (losses by 20+ points). Certainly not ALL of them are his fault but he was definitely a top 3 reason for why each of those games went from bad to worse. The only solid argument? You've literally lost you're ******* marbles over this turd. There's bunch of things this article doesnt factor. How many times did he score 21 in blow outs, how many times did his play assist the other team in taking the lead (ie; turnover and 3 and outs), how many times was the 21pts a factor of something else on the field and Fitz held them back from scoring more. In the wins; how many times was it the run game dominating and Fitz sucking, or the defense scoring, or the defense creating numerous turnovers, or special teams scoring and ultimately making the difference, or the other team making fatal mistakes. None of this was taken into account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JiFtheOracle Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 So more often than not in his career, Ryan Fitzpatrick has put his teams in a position to win. Not since 2008 have we had a QB capable of this. Yet, he's 33-55-1. BUT BUT BUT IT NOT HIS FAULT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 Yet, he's 33-55-1. BUT BUT BUT IT NOT HIS FAULT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Correct. Glad you see it my way now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 How many times did he score 21 in blow outs None of this was taken into account. AFJF already addressed this. I thought about including games that were blowouts but didn't want to get too long winded. There were a few games that stood where Buffalo was down by 20+ by the third quarter but those games were few and far between. Majority of those games were still close enough that defenses weren't going to just sit back and let Buffalo move down the field because the game was out of reach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JiFtheOracle Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 AFJF already addressed this. Cool...I guess the other points I made dont factor into a Win or Loss, so you'll just ignore those. lmfao - you're ridiculous. I'm going to leave you in peace so you can enjoy your daily Fitz masturbation session. We've arrived to the pointless part of this battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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