Would Nick Foles be considered a journeyman?

[Big Blocker]

19 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

There was an upgrade at DB sure but look at the price. Way way above market and the results weren't there. At least not for that money. That was the cap killer. And Mac's draft in 2015 so far looks way overrated. Only 3 guys ever hit the field. He cut 2 of his draft picks out of six. Williams was good but not an impact player at least yet. Mauldin was ok but was improving. Devin Smith so far a disappointment. So sure you should improve via the draft. And when you spend almost an entire treasure trove of cap space improvements are expected. 

The metric of comparison I thought is not how well the money was spent but on how the team did on the field. In 15 overall the secondary was substantially better than 14.  The 14 secondary was the worst Jet secondary I can remember.  And I say that generally agreeing that the 15 team was, other than at Qb, not six games better than the 14 team.  But the secondary?  It was better, even if the Jets overpaid for it.

[Big Blocker]

15 minutes ago, jamesr said:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000665995/article/jeff-fisher-im-fine-with-nick-foles-sitting-out-otas

 

 

I'd rather have Geno, thanks.

Yeah, all the Smith Fans would.

[jamesr]

3 minutes ago, Big Blocker said:

Yeah, all the Smith Fans would.

I'm not even a Smith fan. I want to see Fitz play this year. But if he's not an option, go with Geno, make or break time, put the debate to rest and go from there.

[Big Blocker]

Multiple ways to get there, but one logical end for Nick Foles, Rams
By Nick Wagoner

[espn.go.com]

OXNARD, Calif. -- The news that quarterback Nick Foles is not attending the Los Angeles Rams' organized team activities and hasn't been around since the team drafted quarterback Jared Goff at No. 1 overall didn't come as much of a surprise. For Foles and the Rams, the writing has been on the wall for much longer.

For now, the Rams and Foles are fine with the arrangement they have in place in which Foles stays home and the team moves through the rest of its offseason program with the trio of Goff, Case Keenum and Sean Mannion at quarterback.

Rams coach Jeff Fisher made that clear when discussing the situation on Wednesday.

"I’ve had conversations with Nick and we’re on the same page and we’re trying to work things out," Fisher said. "That’s pretty much all I can say. These are voluntary. We have three quarterbacks on the field right now and it’s hard enough to get reps for all three of them, so we’re in the process of sorting things out with Nick. It has nothing to do with him not wanting to come in and compete, at all. He’s very, very competitive. We appreciate everything he did for us and his leadership and his teammates miss him, but I don’t have any more information other than we are just trying to work things out."

Working things out with Foles could travel a couple of different paths.

The one the Rams would prefer is trading him. They attempted to do so most of the offseason, especially around the draft, but couldn't find a taker as a whopping 15 quarterbacks were selected. With that many quarterbacks off the board, the number of teams looking for help at the position dwindled and those willing to give up a pick were nonexistent.

The other remaining option is cutting Foles, something that the Rams are prepared to do if a market for Foles doesn't develop. The Rams have already paid Foles' $6 million roster bonus, leaving just a base salary of $1.75 million that the team would save by an outright release.

But at this time of year, the Rams don't yet see the need to just part ways with Foles. While injuries are bound to happen across the league that could create a trade fit for Foles, the same is true of the Rams right now. So if the Rams had an injury, Foles still offers some insurance and because they've already paid that bonus, cutting him right now wouldn't do them any good from a financial standpoint.

Barring any of those unfortunate injury instances, though, the reality remains that Foles is still unlikely to be a Ram in 2016. Fisher even acknowledged that Foles views it that way in a recent conversation.

"We talked again and I think Nick has the feeling that if things stay the same, he’s probably not going to be on the roster," Fisher said. "But beyond that, it was more of a mutual thing. Not that we said don’t come, it was just, ‘Hey coach, I’d just rather stay away until we get things worked out.’ I said I’m fine with that."

In the meantime, the Rams will continue to ramp up the reps for Goff and get Keenum and Mannion plenty of work as well. And while other, more high-profile quarterback absences (looking at you, Philadelphia and the Jets) have or continue to create distractions, the Rams clearly don't view Foles' situation in the same way.

"We’d definitely love to have Nick out here, but he made a decision," running back Todd Gurley said. "Hopefully he’ll be back sometime soon. I gave him a text a couple of weeks ago just to check up on him. Hopefully he’ll be back. I still love Nick."
 

http://www.ramsrule.com/herd/read.php?5,663241,663241#msg-663241

[Mike135]

1 minute ago, Big Blocker said:

Yeah, all the Smith Fans would.

As a starter?  Definitely.  But it was mentioned he could be had for 1.7mil (then debunked, so I'm not sure what it would cost).  If he could be brought in for 4mil or less, he's worth it as a backup to keep Petty and/or Hack from a Geno situation  (aka being forced into a role they're not ready for).

[Rangers9]

17 minutes ago, Big Blocker said:

The metric of comparison I thought is not how well the money was spent but on how the team did on the field. In 15 overall the secondary was substantially better than 14.  The 14 secondary was the worst Jet secondary I can remember.  And I say that generally agreeing that the 15 team was, other than at Qb, not six games better than the 14 team.  But the secondary?  It was better, even if the Jets overpaid for it.

You don't kill your cap over one player. And a regressing player at that. The Patriots a smart org cut him rather than pay him stupid money. You can rebuild the secondary without doing that. Mac got credit for the 10-6 but he didn't have a productive 2015 draft and to me the keys for the upswing were on offense. Without Fitz no 10-6 and now the Jets are lowballing the guy after he worked for way under market last year. And trying to box him into taking a bad contract.

[cant wait]

8 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

As a starter?  Definitely.  But it was mentioned he could be had for 1.7mil (then debunked, so I'm not sure what it would cost).  If he could be brought in for 4mil or less, he's worth it as a backup to keep Petty and/or Hack from a Geno situation  (aka being forced into a role they're not ready for).

It says his $6M roster bonus is already paid though, and his 2017 deal is voidable unless he hits incentives. still might as well roll with smith though unless fitz wakes up and realizes he's not worth starter money 

[cant wait]

11 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

You don't kill your cap over one player. And a regressing player at that. The Patriots a smart org cut him rather than pay him stupid money. You can rebuild the secondary without doing that. Mac got credit for the 10-6 but he didn't have a productive 2015 draft and to me the keys for the upswing were on offense. Without Fitz no 10-6 and now the Jets are lowballing the guy after he worked for way under market last year. And trying to box him into taking a bad contract.

Fitz should sign with another team for more money then the jets are offering then. I mean if he really wants to get paid more why let the jets stop him?

[Mike135]

1 minute ago, cant wait said:

It says his $6M roster bonus is already paid though, and his 2017 deal is voidable unless he hits incentives. still might as well roll with smith though unless fitz wakes up and realizes he's not worth starter money 

Right, but there's still the worry of backup QB.  As much as I'd love to see Geno start, there's still a chance he blows (however slight).  And there's always an injury risk.  

Not having a viable backup would not only end our season if it came to that, it could seriously hurt Petty or Hack.  Just like it did Geno (though this is a much better team than Geno had so it shouldn't be as bad).

[Big Blocker]

To be clear about Foles I do not think he's some kind of great Qb, and probably his real level of ability is somewhere between 13 and 15.  The situation with the Rams was problematic for him.  He had a bad season to be sure, but they didn't do better with him on the bench with Keenum who very well may end up starting for them this year.  Probably will I would guess.  I think whether they intended it or not the Rams in effect tanked the season last year AND used the draft picks, especially the second, from Philly in the Bradford trade to put together the trade up to get Goff.  That may work out for them, and it may not.  But the Rams were quite simply not a good team.

The Rams fired their OC after week 14's loss to the Cards, so they obviously felt he was part of the problem, and don't forget Foles led the team earlier that season to a win over the Cards, throwing 3 td's.  He was also hurt during the season.  Point is it was not all on him.  But... does that mean he's a great Qb?  Not saying that.  Just better than Smith.

[Big Blocker]

28 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

As a starter?  Definitely.  But it was mentioned he could be had for 1.7mil (then debunked, so I'm not sure what it would cost).  If he could be brought in for 4mil or less, he's worth it as a backup to keep Petty and/or Hack from a Geno situation  (aka being forced into a role they're not ready for).

Definitely.  Of course you would say that.  You're a Smith Fan.  It's virtually cult like.

[Mike135]

Just now, Big Blocker said:

Definitely.  Of course you would say that.  You're a Smith Fan.  It's virtually cult like.

Come early October you'll be here praising Geno as he lights up the league.

Just have patience.

[Rangers9]

Mac had the 6th overall pick in the 2015 draft he took Leonard Williams a guy who fell into his lap when Wash passed on him. He wasn't an impact player this past season didn't regularly get to the Qb but he is a good player but not outstanding considering where he was taken. It didn't take great acumen or scouting expertise to make that pick. His 2nd round pick was maybe a reach for Devin Smith and the guy underperformed. Mauldin got about 4 sacks and after a terrible looking injury came back and played well later in the season. Petty didn't play and when you hear Bowles talk isn't ready yet. Well he's in his 2nd year so you would expect him to be ready to play if called on. The other 2 guys drafted were cut went unclaimed and were on the PS last year. In 2016 Lee looks like a great fit because he's what we needed most: a linebacker with speed. But if he can cover is he strong enough to at least be adequate in the running game. The big ? was Hack who a lot of teams  passed on. Maybe because like what Fitz is now facing there isn't a great market for starting Qbs. Maybe in another year Hack would have been a 1st round pick. Even a good college Qb in Connor Cook he fell to the 4th round and was taken by a team with a starting Qb and a potential franchise Qb. But Hack was not considered an elite prospect and scouts said he was often inaccurate. Anyways so where is this great talent Mac has as a personnel guy. So far I don't see it. He's not good negotiating contracts: have you ever seen a deal like this with a starting Qb go on so long. And his cap management: he spent most of it the first year and didn't make smart deals. So I'm for giving the guy his 3 years but so far I don't see that much good coming from him. His team was 10-6 but Idzik's first team was 8-8. 

[BowlesMovement]

Are we seriously discussing Nick Foles now?? Isn't he like a boy band dude with abs who was dating Marge Simpson?? Can we just let Geno play for God sakes and see what we have before he walks?? Then tag him??

[RutgersJetFan]

If you don't think trading away cheap draft picks so we can overpay a sh*tty quarterback for a year is worth it then you simply don't know football. If you don't think that carrying 4 quarterbacks on a roster that's already void of depth is a good idea then you probably haven't been watching football for that long. Do yourself a favor and do some learnin' on YouTube before you mathletes come in here with your jibber jabber that has nothing to do with what goes on between the lines.

[FTL Jet Fan]

10 hours ago, Big Blocker said:

It wasn't only the OC leaving.  The Eagles also (stupidly) let go of DeSean Jackson the off season going into 14, and then had OL problems for most of the season.  Of course they did not replace Jackson with anyone good, so you change up your OC and game plan and take away the Qb's #1 receiver with no replacement, even Rodgers would see his stats suffer.

More concerning is the stint with the Rams, but there's a considerable opinion among Rams fans that that was on the CS there for the greater part.  Yeah it might well be that Foles is nowhere near the Qb he was in 13, but for the right number I would take a chance he's still got it.  He was all league in 13.  Something you can't say about Smith and never will come close to saying ever.

More to the point, I don't know why the Jets at least as a bargaining tool would not make some noise about trying to trade for Foles.  It would add leverage over Fitz and his agent even if the CS prefers Fitz to Foles.

Ftr for all those who consider me a Fitzpatrick lover, I think I'd rather have Foles.  He has more upside, and even if say Hackenburg among the current qb's earns the starting gig in 17, then Foles would be much better depth medium term than Fitzpatrick.

I like Foles but I think he has a guaranteed salary of almost 13 million. Not 100%?on the exact #. I always liked Foles. 

[ljr]

6 hours ago, Fibonacci said:

I know it is depressing for us Jets fans but when all you got is Geno, Petty and Hack, every other serviceable QB looks like Heidi Klum out there. Pretty sexy is what I mean

 

[BowlesMovement]

12 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

If you don't think trading away cheap draft picks so we can overpay a sh*tty quarterback for a year is worth it then you simply don't know football. If you don't think that carrying 4 quarterbacks on a roster that's already void of depth is a good idea then you probably haven't been watching football for that long. Do yourself a favor and do some learnin' on YouTube before you mathletes come in here with your jibber jabber that has nothing to do with what goes on between the lines.

Fng troophhh!!! You want some math? Aaron Rodgers had zero TDs his rookie year, you read that right ZERO!! Geno had 12, you tell me who will have the better career???

[drdetroit]

Nick Foles is horrible

[PatsFanTX]

Nick Foles is horrible

27 TD's and 2 INT's is horrible?

Your evaluation of NFL QB's continues to be impressive.

Keep it up.

[Jet Nut]

What has Fitz accomplished that should keep a team from looking at any and every option at QB? 

[ylekram]

44 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

What has Fitz accomplished that should keep a team from looking at any and every option at QB? 

I would ask mac that question. considering he brought in or talked to many qb's, giving none an offer. the only offer that was offered was to Fitzpatrick. hell one of the guys mac talked to signed for 2m, so money isn't it. I would ask mac

[Jet Nut]

6 hours ago, ylekram said:

I would ask mac that question. considering he brought in or talked to many qb's, giving none an offer. the only offer that was offered was to Fitzpatrick. hell one of the guys mac talked to signed for 2m, so money isn't it. I would ask mac

Except Macc hasn't brought Foles in.   For one Foles isn't free to just walk in and interview, he's under contract with the Rams.  So I'm really not getting what not signing Hoyer has to do with Foles.  Difference is Foles if healthy is the better QB.  

So you could ask Macc but he can't answer unless the Rams let Foles go or shop himself around.  Then we might get the answer from Macc