Things to Consider

[Lot K Tailgaters]

I've had season tickets since 1991 when I was 11.  This team may very well be worse than the 1995 or 1996 teams.  Kept it close and imploded in the fourth quarter.

We rarely ever hire a head coach with previous coaching experience.  As a result we always end up with a coach learning on the job.  Bowles is basically learning on the job right now.  We also drafted very poorly toward the end of the Tannebaum era and during the Idzik era.  (Have we ever had a good second round draft pick besides David Harris?).  In 2014 only 2 of those 13 picks are still on the roster.  When you have tons of salary cap space to spend like drunken sailors like we had last season it usually means you drafted pretty poorly and have no one to re-sign. 

While I am very frustrated watching Bowles make awful mistakes and not being able to adjust and I question why did our GM take a QB who basically needs to be re-taught how to throw a football in the second round we don't have many options.  Besides Rex being here for six years we have become  a team who gets a coordinator, keep him around a couple years and then make a change again.  We aren't exactly the team that coaches and GMs want to come to.  While I thought Idzik was a clueless buffoon do you think a GM wants to come here after he saw the previous GM have a plane flying overhead calling for him to be fired?  Does a coach want to coach where after a year or two they're calling for your head. 

I also have to wonder how much influence did our owner have in certain personnel moves?  He was a big supporter of Revis and I am not sure if Maccagnan would have necessarily signed him for all that money.  Was Fitzpatrick encouraged as well?  I was not a fan of re-signing a mediocre QB for $12 million.  Eric Mangini has publicly said that Woody Johnson forced Brett Favre on him to help sell PSLs. 

[no psls]

5 hours ago, Lot K Tailgaters said:

Eric Mangini has publicly said that Woody Johnson forced Brett Favre on him to help sell PSLs.

This is why Woody has to go . We need a football owner . Not a "What expensive toy can i buy next " owner .

[varjet]

This is a very balanced and reasonable post.  We are stuck with Bowles for at least three years total unless he is completely derelict at his job.  He is now.  He needs to turn it around.  He needs to show good game plans and players who play hard for him   Some players may need to be benched, and Kacey Rodgers should be fired at the bye if they can't the defensive problems.  The talent in the secondary is ok-they just can't plan all man-to-man anymore.   

MacC needs to draft better and start building for the future.   They need to focus on player development.  That is what Pete Carroll learned at USC-except now he does not have to worry about graduating and NCAA rules.

But most importantly, Woody needs to stay out of football operations.   He should stick to politics.  If the team is good, the PSLs will sell themselves.  

[whodeawhodat]

7 hours ago, Lot K Tailgaters said:

I've had season tickets since 1991 when I was 11.  This team may very well be worse than the 1995 or 1996 teams.  Kept it close and imploded in the fourth quarter.

We rarely ever hire a head coach with previous coaching experience.  As a result we always end up with a coach learning on the job.  Bowles is basically learning on the job right now.  We also drafted very poorly toward the end of the Tannebaum era and during the Idzik era.  (Have we ever had a good second round draft pick besides David Harris?).  In 2014 only 2 of those 13 picks are still on the roster.  When you have tons of salary cap space to spend like drunken sailors like we had last season it usually means you drafted pretty poorly and have no one to re-sign. 

While I am very frustrated watching Bowles make awful mistakes and not being able to adjust and I question why did our GM take a QB who basically needs to be re-taught how to throw a football in the second round we don't have many options.  Besides Rex being here for six years we have become  a team who gets a coordinator, keep him around a couple years and then make a change again.  We aren't exactly the team that coaches and GMs want to come to.  While I thought Idzik was a clueless buffoon do you think a GM wants to come here after he saw the previous GM have a plane flying overhead calling for him to be fired?  Does a coach want to coach where after a year or two they're calling for your head. 

I also have to wonder how much influence did our owner have in certain personnel moves?  He was a big supporter of Revis and I am not sure if Maccagnan would have necessarily signed him for all that money.  Was Fitzpatrick encouraged as well?  I was not a fan of re-signing a mediocre QB for $12 million.  Eric Mangini has publicly said that Woody Johnson forced Brett Favre on him to help sell PSLs. 

Eric Mangini also named his first born son after Favre, doesnt sound like he was totally against that move. We dont know what goes on behind the scenes. With the way things are id like to see the kids play more.

[peekskill68]

Everything that has been written in the press suggests Woody had his "back to Jesus" moment when he hired Casserly and Wolf as consultants and that he has not meddled with the decision making on the team.  When the team plays bad people need someone to bash but killing Woody for signing Revis and Fitz doesn't fit the script anymore. I'm sure Maccags checked in with Woody to make sure there was no bad blood with Revis but IMO signing him to that big contract was a football move felt necessary by Maccags and supported by Bowles.  Fitz is the same thing...

[j4jets]

Things to consider:

is your record one game better than the worst? Yes

Is your QB the worst in the league? Yes

Do you have a #2 QB that beat out your #1? Yes

Should there be a QB change? Of course

Will the Walking Dead make the switch? NO

[Charlie Brown]

Nice OP!!!

i agree I see a little of the Kotitie team here losing close games not scoring points but the difference is this team is disciplined for the most part and playing hard. 

Also Bowles is clearly still learning; the problem is that NY is a tough place to learn how to be a HC.  People forget that Parcells was almost fired. It wasn't until he said screw everything and did it his way that he became the legendary HOF HC that everyone quotes. 

I am afraid for Bowles because if he can't find the right level of passion for this team he will be gone before he can get it right. 

[joewilly12]

1 minute ago, Charlie Brown said:

Nice OP!!!

i agree I see a little of the Kotitie team here losing close games not scoring points but the difference is this team is disciplined for the most part and playing hard. 

Also Bowles is clearly still learning; the problem is that NY is a tough place to learn how to be a HC.  People forget that Parcells was almost fired. It wasn't until he said screw everything and did it his way that he became the legendary HOF HC that everyone quotes. 

I am afraid for Bowles because if he can't find the right level of passion for this team he will be gone before he can get it right. 

This is his second season remember last season where we cake walked through the NFL's easy teams Bowles did nothing this year with some competition he is folding like a house of cards. No adjustments no change in schemes he's a moron he doesn't know anything but you are seeing. 

[Charlie Brown]

2 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

This is his second season remember last season where we cake walked through the NFL's easy teams Bowles did nothing this year with some competition he is folding like a house of cards. No adjustments no change in schemes he's a moron he doesn't know anything but you are seeing. 

I understand what you are saying.. I don't think Bowles is a "moron",  he didn't win assistant coach of the year in Arizona by accident.  Bowles in that year dealt with tremendous injuries and still he had his defense playing at tremendous levels.

Morons cant do that...

IMO the truth is he hasn't quite yet got this HC coaching thing down yet. 

Bowles has attempted to let Rogers, the Jets DC, be on his own but we see what the defense has provided us... Terrible play!!!  He seems caught in a difficult position, how can you change things up when guys aren't getting the basics that you have been drilling for months down?  he could if he was micromanaging the defense but he can't he is the HC!!!

Parcells said it best, "you can't coach the coaches"..... When you do that the team is suffering. 

And despite the crying out here Gailey has been very good. In Fitz he has a physically limited QB who is subject to critical mistakes in critical moments.  Teams have wised up on the Jets offense; stack the box and cut off the intermediary stuff and dare the Jets to beat you deep. 

Well Fitz isn't a great deep passer and teams have been successful with this approach except for the Buffalo game, which arguably was the finest of Fitz' career.  

No; IMO Bowles gets more time but just because he does get more time (2 years) doesn't mean he will improve.

Such is the life of a Jets fan.

[JOJOTOWNSELL]

the last coach we hired with previous head coaching experience was Parcells.  that was a long time ago

[joewilly12]

Just now, JOJOTOWNSELL said:

the last coach we hired with previous head coaching experience was Parcells.  that was a long time ago

Woody Johnson shops the clearance racks and the bargain basements for coaches 

Time to open up the checkbook Woody 

[peebag]

2 minutes ago, JOJOTOWNSELL said:

the last coach we hired with previous head coaching experience was Parcells.  that was a long time ago

A coach with previous NFL HC experience usually means they got fired at their last gig.

[Flushing Roots]

6 hours ago, j4jets said:

Things to consider:

is your record one game better than the worst? Yes

Is your QB the worst in the league? Yes

Do you have a #2 QB that beat out your #1? Yes

Should there be a QB change? Of course

Will the Walking Dead make the switch? NO

Now I am really depressed...

[Freemanm]

22 hours ago, Lot K Tailgaters said:

I've had season tickets since 1991 when I was 11.  This team may very well be worse than the 1995 or 1996 teams.  Kept it close and imploded in the fourth quarter.

I also have to wonder how much influence did our owner have in certain personnel moves?  He was a big supporter of Revis and I am not sure if Maccagnan would have necessarily signed him for all that money.  Was Fitzpatrick encouraged as well?  I was not a fan of re-signing a mediocre QB for $12 million.  Eric Mangini has publicly said that Woody Johnson forced Brett Favre on him to help sell PSLs. 

First, I almost now curse Wesley Walker for making me a Jets fan when I was six (he made an impossible late catch against the Raiders in the 82 divisional round that allowed the Jets to win last minute, it was the greatest sports thing I'd ever seen at the time). 

Second, in all fairness, we were all calling for Revis to be resigned because, thanks to Idziot, we had no CBs ( anyone remember Dmitri Patterson, who was signed to replace Cromartie?). Most of us also thought during the offseason that Fitz, while not ideal, was the best option available for this season. Third, I felt sorry for Chad Pennington when Favre was signed, because we all knew Favre didn't want to come to NY and would only be here for a season anyway. That was definitely a bad signing and had Woody written all over it. 

After Cardinals schedule eases up a bit. We just played the two teams that could very well be playing in this year's SB. Call me crazy but I think Jets actually can finish at 9-7 if the they can hold it together. 

[Lot K Tailgaters]

15 hours ago, whodeawhodat said:

Eric Mangini also named his first born son after Favre, doesnt sound like he was totally against that move. We dont know what goes on behind the scenes. With the way things are id like to see the kids play more.

Here is the article.  I'm sure he respected him but didn't want him.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/09/28/spygate-favre-are-two-of-manginis-jets-regrets/

Spygate, Favre are two of Mangini’s Jets regrets

Posted by Mike Florio on September 28, 2016, 10:05 AM EDT

Getty Images

Ten years ago, Eric Mangini arrived in New York as coach of the Jets and spiced up the rivalry between his new employer and his former one, the Patriots.

The rivalry reached new heights in Mangini’s second season on the job, when Week One of the 2007 season sparked Spygate.

In a nutshell, Mangini knew that Patriots coach Bill Belichick recorded defensive coaching signals in violation of league rules, and Mangini wanted Belichick to not do it when playing the Jets. That morphed into the Jets catching the Patriots in the act, and the Jets reporting the situation to the league office.

“Spygate is a big regret,” Mangini tells Brian Costello of the New York Post. “It wasn’t supposed to go down the way it went down. . . . There was no great value in what they were doing. It wasn’t worth it. It wasn’t worth it to me personally. It wasn’t worth it to the relationship.”

It’s been long believed that Mangini didn’t want to blow the whistle on the Patriots, but that others in the organization (presumably, G.M. Mike Tannenbaum) pulled the pin on the Spygate grenade.

“I cared about [Belichick],” Mangini said. “I didn’t want to hurt him. I didn’t want to hurt the Patriots. They were a huge part of my life, too, and the Kraft family. The Krafts were always great to me. It wasn’t like I was thinking I really want to get these guys. My thought was I don’t want to put my team at a competitive disadvantage, no matter how small.”

The following year, Mangini was put at a competitive disadvantage via the arrival of Brett Favre at quarterback. Mangini didn’t want to add the veteran, who had retired in February and then unretired for a Packers team that didn’t want him.

“We weren’t going to be a team that was going to be built on one guy,” Mangini said. “We were a team. I preached that and I preached that. When we had the opportunity to bring Brett in, it didn’t fit with the vision, the idea of bringing someone in who was really bigger than the team.”

Mangini eventually agreed to do it because he was told by owner Woody Johnson that it was a one-year experiment.

“I was told no matter what happens if we bring in Brett Favre, you’re absolutely safe,” Mangini said. “I probably should have gotten that in writing.”

Mangini was fired after the failed one-year experiment with Brett Favre.

The former Jets coach landed quickly in Cleveland, where he spent a couple of seasons before working for ESPN and then serving in various roles with the 49ers. He told Costello that Mangini hopes to coach again, or maybe to work in a front office.

Still only 45, Mangini surely has plenty of football left in him. The only question is whether and when someone else will give him another chance to show what he can do.

[hokiejetfan92]

On ‎10‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 1:05 AM, Lot K Tailgaters said:

We rarely ever hire a head coach with previous coaching experience.  As a result we always end up with a coach learning on the job. 

This is a total double edged sword. Unless a previous SB winning HC like Cowher (who imo is overrated) or a HC superstar in Harbaugh comes to the Jets, then the narrative will so easily be portrayed as someone's rotten goods. "He already failed before" "We've seen these problems before." etc. If we hired Lovie Smith or John Fox, would you really have been more excited than when someone with the potential of Todd Bowles came up? However, I would be interested in Josh McDaniels because I think Denver didn't work out partially because he was too overconfident he could turn Tebow into something.

I don't think that experience has all that much to do with game management decisions. While, I am sure some experience helps in the beginning, it is not like Rex and Herm really improved after a few years of making HC decisions. Some people, like Belichick, are really on the ball people, good with details... Some are more spacey, more likely to not think a situation through. Bowles is looking like that.

The alarming trend I see is we always hire defensive minded head coaches, and as a result our offense is always put second and has suffered because it. I really started understanding football in Herm's first year, we haven't had an offensive head coach. I kinda remember 98, but even Parcells and Al Groh were defensive minds. That is at the very least a strange trend.