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Lupz27

Pat Mahomes II

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5 hours ago, Lupz27 said:

It's funny Goff came from the same type of college gimmick offense, and went #1 overall with half the talent physically Mahomes has, and guys like Gruden, and S Payton are lining up to coach him.

Goff has amazing mechanics though. He was worth the #1 pick. Much safer qb prospect to draft then Mahomes who needs some work. 

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People are going to fall in love with this kid at the combine. Great escapability and ridiculous arm talent. He's an exciting player. 

The more I watch of him, the more I want the Jets to go after him. 

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5 hours ago, sourceworx said:

People are going to fall in love with this kid at the combine. Great escapability and ridiculous arm talent. He's an exciting player. 

The more I watch of him, the more I want the Jets to go after him. 

Quick. Name a QB in the NFL that has come from an air raid college system and has had success at the next level. 

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29 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Quick. Name a QB in the NFL that has come from an air raid college system and has had success at the next level. 

I know. I understand that. But if you actually watch this kid play (not his highlights, his game tape), there's something different about him. He isn't just taking the snap, staring down his first read, and throwing it to him. 

He audibles at the line and goes through progressions. He moves around the pocket while keeping his eyes downfield at all times. He's strong enough to shed tacklers. And he can throw a 65 yard bomb on dime with a flick of his wrist while on the move.

He's part Roethlisberger, part Fran Tarkenton, and part Brett Favre (not saying he'll be as good as any of them, just that his style of play has elements of all three).  

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If the jets do draft him what do we do with our qb spots on the roster. Do we give up on petty and let him go and have vet, hack and then mahomes, or do we run a youth movement behind the line. I do like the kids arm but his pocket mechanics are all over the place, he doesn't drop back in the pocket he just kind of floats around and throws off his back foot. Luckily for him he has the arm strength to overcome it but it will lead to a ton of turnovers in the nfl.

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1 hour ago, sourceworx said:

I know. I understand that. But if you actually watch this kid play (not his highlights, his game tape), there's something different about him. He isn't just taking the snap, staring down his first read, and throwing it to him. 

He audibles at the line and goes through progressions. He moves around the pocket while keeping his eyes downfield at all times. He's strong enough to shed tacklers. And he can throw a 65 yard bomb on dime with a flick of his wrist while on the move.

He's part Roethlisberger, part Fran Tarkenton, and part Brett Favre (not saying he'll be as good as any of them, just that his style of play has elements of all three).  

I'm all for the Jets getting a franchise QB but I think they've hitched their wagons to Hack so I doubt they bring in another project QB, no matter how ill conceived that may be. So, I don't envision a scenario where they take this kid. I fully expect to see Hack in 2017 and then a new regime desperately looking to the 2018 draft for a savior. Plus, I don't think this kid is the goods. Just my opinion.

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3 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Quick. Name a QB in the NFL that has come from an air raid college system and has had success at the next level. 

Quick name a an Air Raid QB that had this kids talent?

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44 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

Quick name a an Air Raid QB that had this kids talent?

That's pretty subjective. There are plenty of guys with arm talent that never make it or figure it out. I'd be happy to be wrong but the fact is there aren't many coming from an offense like that to the NFL that have successful careers. 

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3 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

That's pretty subjective. There are plenty of guys with arm talent that never make it or figure it out. I'd be happy to be wrong but the fact is there aren't many coming from an offense like that to the NFL that have successful careers. 

In your opinion would say Aaron Rodgers be the same QB if he played at Texas Tech's offense instead of Cal's non Pro Style offense?

Dak Prescott played in Urban Meyers non pro style spread offense.

Jared Goff played in the same Air Raid system as Mahomes last season, yes his mechanics are better then Mahomes, but his talent level everywhere else is inferior.

I hate this nonsense a guy can't be successful because of the college system he played in, yes it applied to a guy like Kingsbury because he was not talented enough physically for the NFL, Mahomes is the most physically gifted QB to ever run the Air Raid system, and I can't wait for people to forget about his college system when he blows people's minds at the combine.

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2 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

In your opinion would say Aaron Rodgers be the same QB if he played at Texas Tech's offense instead of Cal's non Pro Style offense?

Dak Prescott played in Urban Meyers non pro style spread offense.

Jared Goff played in the same Air Raid system as Mahomes last season, yes his mechanics are better then Mahomes, but his talent level everywhere else is inferior.

I hate this nonsense a guy can't be successful because of the college system he played in, yes it applied to a guy like Kingsbury because he was not talented enough physically for the NFL, Mahomes is the most physically gifted QB to ever run the Air Raid system, and I can't wait for people to forget about his college system when he blows people's minds at the combine.

I never said he can't be successful, I'm saying the odds are against him. It just hasn't translated to the NFL well. Maybe he'll be the guy to change it but I doubt it. If he is indeed the "most physically gifted" QB ever then that will show at workouts and the combine and I'm sure some team will overdraft him. I just hope it's not the Jets. 

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9 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

That's pretty subjective. There are plenty of guys with arm talent that never make it or figure it out. I'd be happy to be wrong but the fact is there aren't many coming from an offense like that to the NFL that have successful careers. 

Also he doesn't just have Arm talent, he has everything physically, not just the arm, if you forced him too, and he accepted the challenge he would probably make it as a S, LB, or a WR in the NFL, BUT he does also have the best arm talent in this draft, clean up his foot work, let him learn the language of a playbook, and he is plug, and play once that's taken care of, his combine interviews will determine how quickly NFL evaluaters think this process will take, if it's in the Wilson Prescott time frame he goes mid 1st round easily in this crap ass QB class.

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He looks like a bigger, stronger more athletic Bryce Petty with a better arm . I agree with the Brett Favre comparison, but when Favre was a college  player   

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1 minute ago, Tinstar said:

He looks like a bigger, stronger more athletic Bryce Petty with a better arm . I agree with the Brett Favre comparison, but when Favre was a college  player   

He is a mix of Favre (gun slinger mentality with arm to match mentality) Russell Wilson (Mobility to extend plays outside the pocket, and being able to make plays with his feet to pick up yards).

All that said I still think coming out of college he is a better version of Aaron Rodgers, the question is does he have half the mental aspect that Rodgers has, if he does he will be a very good QB in the NFL, with the ability to reach the pinnacle of the sport.  His background growing up traveling with his father over the summers fielding ground balls with ARod, and such makes me confident the mental, and pressure aspect of being a professional in the NFL a non issue, he is probably top 5 ever to come out of the draft to have this kind of grooming and preparation to handle the outside noise of being a professional athlete in the NFL.

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4 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

I'm all for the Jets getting a franchise QB but I think they've hitched their wagons to Hack so I doubt they bring in another project QB, no matter how ill conceived that may be. So, I don't envision a scenario where they take this kid. I fully expect to see Hack in 2017 and then a new regime desperately looking to the 2018 draft for a savior. Plus, I don't think this kid is the goods. Just my opinion.

I don't think they've hitched their wagons to anyone.  The Jets can and should take another QB if they have a chance to land one that they like.

Hack wasn't a first round pick. If the Jets pick a QB early, you won't hear a peep about Hackenberg ever again.

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On 1/6/2017 at 2:58 AM, sourceworx said:

I know. I understand that. But if you actually watch this kid play (not his highlights, his game tape), there's something different about him. He isn't just taking the snap, staring down his first read, and throwing it to him. 

I totally disagree. He's awful when the read isn't there. No Anticipation, terrible pocket presence. After watching some games, I walked away seeing another Bryce Petty. Wouldn't touch him even in the 7th round personally.

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45 minutes ago, Paradis said:

I totally disagree. He's awful when the read isn't there. No Anticipation, terrible pocket presence. After watching some games, I walked away seeing another Bryce Petty. Wouldn't touch him even in the 7th round personally.

Must have watched that tape with the same glasses you watched Paxton Lynch's with, were in complete disagreement here, he will be the most successful QB to come out of this draft IMO he has everything you need to succeed at the next level, I saw the same thing in Dak Prescott last year that I see in Mahomes except Mahomes is a better physical talent.

I mean to say you won't touch a guy in the 7th round, and this guy will 100% get drafted 3rd round the latest, and has a very good chance to get drafted in the 1st round because teams over draft QB's makes you sound very silly, and I will definitely take your opinions on other players much less seriously then I used to.

Oh and FYI he played this past season with a sprain in his throwing shoulder, a bad leg, and a wrist injury that required surgery yet he played the whole season putting up those numbers.

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1 minute ago, Lupz27 said:

Must have watched that tape with the same glasses you watched Paxton Lynch's with, were in complete disagreement here, he will be the most successful QB to come out of this draft IMO he has everything you need to succeed at the next level, I saw the same think in Dak Prescott last year that I see in Mahomes except Mahomes is a better physical talent.

I mean to say you won't touch a guy in the 7th round, and this guy will 100% get drafted 3rd round the latest, and has a very good chance to get drafted in the 1st round because teams over draft QB's makes you sound very silly, and I will definitely take your opinions on other players much less seriously then I used to.

You're starting to get hostile, so I'll leave my tip with the bartender. 

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3 minutes ago, Paradis said:

You're starting to get hostile, so I'll leave my tip with the bartender. 

I'm not getting hostile, I just think it's so way over the top to say you wouldn't take him with a 7th round pick, it is so over the top overreacting to not liking a prospect.

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1 hour ago, Lupz27 said:

I'm not getting hostile, I just think it's so way over the top to say you wouldn't take him with a 7th round pick, it is so over the top overreacting to not liking a prospect.

no, you're getting bitchy. We both know it. 

It's not an overstatement at all. If i don't believe he's going to make i, why would i spend a 7th pick on him? Do you buy shoes in the bargain bin you'll never wear? 

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3 hours ago, Paradis said:

I totally disagree. He's awful when the read isn't there. No Anticipation, terrible pocket presence. After watching some games, I walked away seeing another Bryce Petty. Wouldn't touch him even in the 7th round personally.

No offense, but you love Paxton Lynch, who is dogsh!t.

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On 1/8/2017 at 5:32 PM, sourceworx said:

No offense, but you love Paxton Lynch, who is dogsh!t.

Right. 

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6 hours ago, Paradis said:

Right. 

In all fairness, I was a Hackenberg guy.  :P

 

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Just now, Tinstar said:

Was ?

Before the draft last year.  I still believe in him (I know, I'm one of the few). 

That said, I'm all for taking another QB in this draft. Keep picking them until you find one.

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29 minutes ago, sourceworx said:

Before the draft last year.  I still believe in him (I know, I'm one of the few). 

That said, I'm all for taking another QB in this draft. Keep picking them until you find one.

That was and should always be the plan . It was why I didn't want to resign Fitzpatrick last year and now because of that, everyone is 1 year behind . Personally, I would draft a QB and sign a veteran. The player who looks worst between Hackenberg and Petty goes on the practice Squad . If we lose him we lose him, but that it .

We're moving forward with this process and a new candidate come in every year until we find our guy . No more Brooks Bollingers  or Greg MCElroys or college QBs with zero upside . 

As a matter of fact I might take 1 early and another after the draft

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6 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

That was and should always be the plan . It was why I didn't want to resign Fitzpatrick last year and now because of that, everyone is 1 year behind . Personally, I would draft a QB and sign a veteran. The player who looks worst between Hackenberg and Petty goes on the practice Squad . If we lose him we lose him, but that it .

We're moving forward with this process and a new candidate come in every year until we find our guy . No more Brooks Bollingers  or Greg MCElroys or college QBs with zero upside . 

As a matter of fact I might take 1 early and another after the draft

 

I just suggested exactly this in another thread. I'd sign Tyrod Taylor (when/if he becomes available), and draft Mahomes. Then let Hack and Petty fight it out for the third QB spot.

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14 minutes ago, sourceworx said:

 

I just suggested exactly this in another thread. I'd sign Tyrod Taylor (when/if he becomes available), and draft Mahomes. Then let Hack and Petty fight it out for the third QB spot.

The new guy gets 3 years to prove he should get a 4th . This is the 3rd year for Petty, so he's on deck .

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3 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

They compare Kizer to Aaron Rodgers. So. 

Mahomes is also compared to Rodgers more so then Kizer, also Favre is the other QB that he draws comparisons to.

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2 hours ago, Lupz27 said:

Mahomes is also compared to Rodgers more so then Kizer, also Favre is the other QB that he draws comparisons to.

Cool. I doubt the Jets are drafting either so this seems frivolous. 

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4 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Cool. I doubt the Jets are drafting either so this seems frivolous. 

Agreed, the only QB I would think the Jets are gonna draft is Trubisky, doesn't mean I can't disagree personally, and discuss on a message board.

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4 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

Agreed, the only QB I would think the Jets are gonna draft is Trubisky, doesn't mean I can't disagree personally, and discuss on a message board.

I would disagree too and be very vocal on this message board about it too. 

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