Looking at Macc's 2 drafts.

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, Mecca said:

Wow. you are truly a terrible poster and lack basic football knowledge if you are defending the Jace Amaro pick. A bad GM is bad. 

Well let's see. Allen Robinson is stuck in hell in Jacksonville. Keenan Allen's been hurt and stuck in hell in San Diego/LA.

I don't see those teams any better than what they were.

That's my point with joewilly. By his logic, we are more talented than the team with Bortles, Ivory and Allen Robinson on it.

[joewilly12]

Just now, JiF said:

If you don't judge a GM in hindsight, how do you judge him? Wins?  The Jets have 5. 

Or you just give him a B for trying and give him a life time deal because it's not fair. 

Exactly a GM is only as good as the team he puts n the field, Macc hasnt done anything special here. 

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, JiF said:

If you don't judge a GM in hindsight, how do you judge him? Wins?  The Jets have 5. 

Or you just give him a B for trying and give him a life time deal because it's not fair. 

Did I say that?

You judge a GM by using all the variables at your disposal. For example, The Vernon Gholston pick is supposedly an all time bust, but given circumstances around that pick, I'm not as harsh on it.

[Mecca]

Just now, JiF said:

If you don't judge a GM in hindsight, how do you judge him? Wins?  The Jets have 5. 

Or you just give him a B for trying and give him a life time deal because it's not fair. 

I know. I was being sarcastic with that clown. Dude was trying to defend Jace f*cking Amaro. I used to write for Scout.com before JI bought them. I hated Amaro. He was a receiving tight end who couldn't block or get YAC.

[joewilly12]

1 minute ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Well let's see. Allen Robinson is stuck in hell in Jacksonville. Keenan Allen's been hurt and stuck in hell in San Diego/LA.

I don't see those teams any better than what they were.

That's my point with joewilly. By his logic, we are more talented than the team with Bortles, Ivory and Allen Robinson on it.

Bortles is better than any QB on our roster. 

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, joewilly12 said:

Bortles is better than any QB on our roster. 

But they have fewer wins than we do. SO how is that possible?

[DetroitRed]

He has done well in the war room and with the undrafted free agents. Without the QB picks , he may have hit home runs on both


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[joewilly12]

1 minute ago, UnitedWhofans said:

But they have fewer wins than we do. SO how is that possible?

I dont know anything about them.

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, joewilly12 said:

I dont know anything about them.

Well there you go.

[DetroitRed]

For most sane folks who work around or in pro football, it takes 3 years to get a real feel for an NFL draft class . Jet fans can do 2 classes in 2 years . 

Absolutely. I agree 1000%. That doesn't mean you can't have an early opinion and then reconsider at a later date


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[JiFtheOracle]

What I've learned in this thread:

You can't judge a GM in hindsight.  It's not fair.  

Players who don't play and get injured don't count and you can't judge them because it's not fair.  

Jace Amaro and Vernon Gholston were good picks. 

Landing 1 player in 2 years = B.

The Jets might possibly be more talented then a team who hasn't won more than 5 games in the last 10 years. 

[Harlemnite1]

  Its not about the draft picks or where theywere taken, its about coaching up what you have. The Jets have done poor jobs in that area because they have had poor coaches. The Pats draft low every year, lose players every year and always find players to plug in and contribute. Never any huge free agent signings or giving out large contracts. Same with the Packers. Yes they both have franchise QB's but they also lose players and still in the hunt every year. Until the Jets get a competent coaching staff this will continue to happen.

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, JiF said:

What I've learned in this thread:

You can't judge a GM in hindsight.  It's not fair.  

Players who don't play and get injured don't count and you can't judge them because it's not fair.  

Jace Amaro and Vernon Gholston were good picks. 

Landing 1 player in 2 years = B.

The Jets might possibly be more talented then a team who hasn't won more than 5 games in the last 10 years. 

1. I did not say it was a good pick. I just said I judge it less harshly than others because of the circumstances surrounding that pick. That's like moving an F to a D-.

2. JoeWilly isn't willing to say that, despite having a better QB on their roster.

[Jetster]

5 minutes ago, Mecca said:

I know. I was being sarcastic with that clown. Dude was trying to defend Jace f*cking Amaro. I used to write for Scout.com before JI bought them. I hated Amaro. He was a receiving tight end who couldn't block or get YAC.

I told this story before. My nephew was a training intern during the 2014 camp @ Cortland. He told me that Amaro looked out of shape & was a weak looking player with a bad body. I posted that here & got hammered. 

My nephew got the last laugh. He was right.

[JiFtheOracle]

Oh yeah, the days of it takes 3 years to evaluate are over and done.  It rang true once but now the average player only last 3 years.  You have to make decisions on players quickly these days or you are stuck with sh*t which impacts future direction and decisions.

Now I'm not saying give them a year and cut them but it's 100% fair and 100% what you do if you're a Head Coach and GM.  The assement begins the second they walk through the door. 

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, Jetster said:

I told this story before. My nephew was a training intern during the 2014 camp @ Cortland. He told me that Amaro looked out of shape & was a weak looking player with a bad body. I posted that here & got hammered. 

My nephew got the last laugh. He was right.

The interesting thing, and it shows the folly of what I did, is that Amaro led all rookie TEs in receptions in his rookie year

So by the instant assessment of Amaro, he would have been a B to B-.

COme to think of it, injuries derailed him too.

[kevinc855]

He's building a young roster with the 2020s in mind

[joewilly12]

1 minute ago, Jetster said:

I told this story before. My nephew was a training intern during the 2014 camp @ Cortland. He told me that Amaro looked out of shape & was a weak looking player with a bad body. I posted that here & got hammered. 

My nephew got the last laugh. He was right.

Strength and conditioning seems to be a huge problem under this head coach. 

[joewilly12]

8 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Well there you go.

I do know that I don't compare the Jets to other sucky teams. Playing the bottom feeder teams doesn't do the team any bit of good when it comes time to playing equal or better teams. 

[fusionCA]

20 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Bottom line is I don't penalize Macc for:

1.Hindsight criticism. It's a philosophy of mine. If you voted for Trump, you have no right to criticize him because you could have chosen somebody else.

2. Injuries, unless predictable. Milliner had an injury history. Smith didn't. Hence...

#1 is  as stupid as it can be.

maybe you need to go back to school to learn about democracy and government

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, joewilly12 said:

I do know that I don't compare the Jets against other sucky teams. Playing the bottom feeder teams doesn't do the team any bit of good when it comes time to playing better teams. 

All I am doing is putting your theory to the test. Your theory is that draft class and free agents are determined by wins and losses. That the true talent of a team is determined by wins and losses.

By your theory, you are saying that a team with Blake Bortles, whom you said was better than any QB on our roster, and Allen Robinson is less talented than the Jets because they have fewer wins. That's your theory

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, fusionCA said:

#1 is  as stupid as it can be.

maybe you need to go back to school to learn about democracy and government

Has nothing to do with democracy and government in and of itself. It's a personal philosophy.

"You reap what you sow" and Caveat Emptor

[joewilly12]

Just now, UnitedWhofans said:

All I am doing is putting your theory to the test. Your theory is that draft class and free agents are determined by wins and losses. That the true talent of a team is determined by wins and losses.

By your theory, you are saying that a team with Blake Bortles, whom you said was better than any QB on our roster, and Allen Robinson is less talented than the Jets because they have fewer wins. That's your theory

My theory is you build your team through the draft and free agency. 

This team has struggled immensely in the draft. 

You win games by playing and being better than the other team that given day. 

I dont compare the Jets with other sh*tty teams in the NFL I dont want the Jets associated with other sh*tty teams. 

Blake Bortles is better than any QB on our roster. 

[UnitedWhofans]

1 minute ago, joewilly12 said:

My theory is you build your team through the draft and free agency. 

This team has struggled immensely in the draft. 

You win games by playing and being better than the other team that given day. 

I dont compare the Jets with other sh*tty teams in the NFL I dont want the Jets associated with other sh*tty teams. 

Blake Bortles is better than any QB on our roster. 

And yet, a combo of Bryce Petty, Geno Smith and Ryan Fitzpatrick won more games than Blake Bortles this year. 

And if the QB is the highest impact player on a team, what does that say?

[fusionCA]

1 minute ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Has nothing to do with democracy and government in and of itself. It's a personal philosophy.

"You reap what you sow" and Caveat Emptor

so if you choose to cross the road because the driver next to the crossing pass gave you the go ahead and then once you crossed he run you over is your fault ?

 

I don't even know how to answer you

[UnitedWhofans]

1 minute ago, fusionCA said:

so if you choose to cross the road because the driver next to the crossing pass gave you the go ahead and then once you crossed he run you over is your fault ?

 

I don't even know how to answer you

Only if you knew the guy next to the crossing had a history of running people over. Was it predictable?

Caveat Emptor involves prior knowledge and intuition. If you buy something, you try and find out about it before you buy it.

[Mecca]

14 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

The interesting thing, and it shows the folly of what I did, is that Amaro led all rookie TEs in receptions in his rookie year

So by the instant assessment of Amaro, he would have been a B to B-.

COme to think of it, injuries derailed him too.

you're the worst poster on this board by far.

Amaro dropped a thousand balls his rookie year.

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, Mecca said:

you're the worst poster on this board by far.

Amaro dropped a thousand balls his rookie year.

He did, which is why he wouldn't have been an A player. Because he dropped a ton of balls.

 

[BRONX DUDE]

3 hours ago, UnitedWhofans said:

2015:

1. Leonard Williams- Becoming a stud at DL, team MVP this year. Why people are whining about this pick, I have no idea.

2. Devin Smith- Injuries have hampered his development and it doesn't look good. 

3. Lorenzo Mauldin- For some reason, coaching staff asked him to bulk up in offseason, taking away speed for pass rushing. Injuries have also lessened his playing time.

4. Bryce Petty- Has improved from seasons 1 to 2 but at the moment, looks like a serviceable backup. Injuries have hampered his development (seeing a pattern)

5.Jarvis Harrison- A complete bust. Let go after only 1 year on the team.

7. Deon Simon- A sleeper at DL who has improved and gotten more playing time in his second season. 

So (in grade) we have 1 A (Williams), 1 B (Simon), 2 Cs (Mauldin and Petty), 1 F,(Harrison) and one incomplete (Smith)

2016:

1. Darron Lee- Up and down rookie season. Needs to get better in coverage but has show flashes of speed and tackling ability

2. Christian Hackenberg- The enigma. What will happen?

3. Jordan Jenkins- Has steadily improved as the season has gone on and has made more plays as well

4. Juston Burris- Has shown flashes of ability in little playing time.

5. Brandon Shell- Has been very solid in last 3 games of the season against solid competition

6. Lachlan Edwards- Few people complained about the punter this year, but he have a couple of hiccups.

7. Charone Peake- Flashed ability as a WR when he played.

So (in grade) we have 4 B's (Shell, Jenkins, Lee, Burris), 2 C's (Edwards & Peake) and one incomplete ( Guess who?)

 

So in total, in two drafts, Macc has found one superstar player and has had (to this point) one bust. That to me says okay. Not great but okay.

TINY LB still deserves a chance to improve his coverage skills.  He will work hard judging by his comments in the Media.

[dbatesman]

3 hours ago, UnitedWhofans said:

2015:

1. Leonard Williams- Becoming a stud at DL, team MVP this year. Why people are whining about this pick, I have no idea.

2. Devin Smith- Injuries have hampered his development and it doesn't look good. 

3. Lorenzo Mauldin- For some reason, coaching staff asked him to bulk up in offseason, taking away speed for pass rushing. Injuries have also lessened his playing time.

4. Bryce Petty- Has improved from seasons 1 to 2 but at the moment, looks like a serviceable backup. Injuries have hampered his development (seeing a pattern)

5.Jarvis Harrison- A complete bust. Let go after only 1 year on the team.

7. Deon Simon- A sleeper at DL who has improved and gotten more playing time in his second season. 

So (in grade) we have 1 A (Williams), 1 B (Simon), 2 Cs (Mauldin and Petty), 1 F,(Harrison) and one incomplete (Smith)

2016:

1. Darron Lee- Up and down rookie season. Needs to get better in coverage but has show flashes of speed and tackling ability

2. Christian Hackenberg- The enigma. What will happen?

3. Jordan Jenkins- Has steadily improved as the season has gone on and has made more plays as well

4. Juston Burris- Has shown flashes of ability in little playing time.

5. Brandon Shell- Has been very solid in last 3 games of the season against solid competition

6. Lachlan Edwards- Few people complained about the punter this year, but he have a couple of hiccups.

7. Charone Peake- Flashed ability as a WR when he played.

So (in grade) we have 4 B's (Shell, Jenkins, Lee, Burris), 2 C's (Edwards & Peake) and one incomplete ( Guess who?)

 

So in total, in two drafts, Macc has found one superstar player and has had (to this point) one bust. That to me says okay. Not great but okay.

The results have actually been pretty ******* far from okay, but it almost doesn't matter. The real way to judge drafts is to look at process rather than results, and by that criterion, Maccagnan has been several orders of magnitude worse than Idzik.

[ZachEY]

Are the Jets better off today than two years ago today?

No?

Grade is an F.

[UnitedWhofans]

1 hour ago, gEYno said:

Are the Jets better off today than two years ago today?

No?

Grade is an F.

I disagree with that. More potential on the roster then in 2014.

I could also say that two years ago we were 4-12. This year we are 5-11. So technically, yes we are better

[UnitedWhofans]

1 hour ago, dbatesman said:

The results have actually been pretty ******* far from okay, but it almost doesn't matter. The real way to judge drafts is to look at process rather than results, and by that criterion, Maccagnan has been several orders of magnitude worse than Idzik.

What makes you say that? That seems a very mercurial statement.

Again, I think I was pretty fair in my assessment of the players

[dbatesman]

7 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

What makes you say that? That seems a very mercurial statement.

Again, I think I was pretty fair in my assessment of the players

Which part was unclear?

[NoBowles]

1 hour ago, dbatesman said:

The results have actually been pretty ******* far from okay, but it almost doesn't matter. The real way to judge drafts is to look at process rather than results, and by that criterion, Maccagnan has been several orders of magnitude worse than Idzik.

When Maccagnan passes on 3 franchise QB's in one draft because he has Geno ******* Smith, we can talk about him approaching Idzik level of incompetent **** up, until then, Maccagnan is a fire cracker while Idzik is a nuclear bomb.