Sam Darnold is ready to be everything Jets envisioned

[Grandy]

Josh Allen is a freak athlete with just about the biggest cannon ever. However his passing skills are poor at best. To me he is a slightly worse Cam Newton. 

His legs will help him win games consistently in his career, but when the day comes that he can't use those legs anymore he'll have needed to progress significantly as a passer to keep up. 

[14 in Green]

31 minutes ago, Grandy said:

Josh Allen is a freak athlete with just about the biggest cannon ever. However his passing skills are poor at best. To me he is a slightly worse Cam Newton. 

His legs will help him win games consistently in his career, but when the day comes that he can't use those legs anymore he'll have needed to progress significantly as a passer to keep up. 

But that’s where you  “anti Allen” guys lose me.

You feel secure about Darnold because of a 3 game stretch in an otherwise bad rookie season. Almost everyone here thinks he’ll take the next step, but the guy everyone knew had the best arm, and a lot thought had the biggest upside even though he was the most raw, has no chance of improving? He basically had the same season as Sam. Yet our guy will go on to a 15 year HOF career, and Allen is just a scatter armed injury waiting to happen.

i just don’t get it....

[Charlie Brown]

For those on this thread who still believe that only Jets "homers" think that Darnold is "Special"....

Please enjoy the the following neutral analysis 

 

 

 

[NYJ1]

I'm sorry for all those trying to keep a complimentary eye for Josh Allen, but this guy SUCKS. I'm tired about that nonsense that was spread during draft time, about him having the most potential? If you ask me, I think that's a lot of crap. I've already seen enough of that dingbat, he SUCKS and he always will suck. I picture his career as comparing to GENO SMITH. I won't get personal with my insults and call him Mark Sanchez, but he is not a good QB. He commits to running the ball way too much because he lacks the ability to scan the field and find 2nd and 3rd route runners. He also cannot understand what he's looking at from the defense. Jets fans SHOULD know this already? Remember we've been watching Mark Sanchez, Geno Smith, and Christian Hackenberg as QB's of the Jets. We know a sh*t QB when we see one.

[Grandy]

32 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

But that’s where you  “anti Allen” guys lose me.

You feel secure about Darnold because of a 3 game stretch in an otherwise bad rookie season. Almost everyone here thinks he’ll take the next step, but the guy everyone knew had the best arm, and a lot thought had the biggest upside even though he was the most raw, has no chance of improving? He basically had the same season as Sam. Yet our guy will go on to a 15 year HOF career, and Allen is just a scatter armed injury waiting to happen.

i just don’t get it....

I acknowledge and completely get your opinion as Darnold is still mostly unproven and Allen played better than expected. So I'll just explain the optimist POV.

1) A good rookie season isn't about putting up pretty numbers overall, it's about progression and development which going from basically worst to first in the span of a season entails. So I can understand why many (Including me) feel confidence about that span, especially when taking into account how atrocious and banged up the team around him was in those games yet he still dominated and didn't show his main concerning tendency (INT issues) at all in any of those games. He was missing many o-line starters, his #1 target, and his #1 and 2 RB's. 

2) Darnold beat him in every single passing category with a QB rating 10 points higher. I mean the statistical margin (averaged out) that separated the two was the same as Andrew Luck compared to Andy Dalton. It doesn't take a biased fan to see the difference between them at this point. Personally I see Allen being successful in the league, but unless he becomes a much better passer he won't be a top QB (At least not a sustainable one). He just has fundamental issues that are extremely hard if not impossible to coach out (accuracy). 

 

[14 in Green]

3 minutes ago, Grandy said:

I acknowledge and completely get your opinion as Darnold is still mostly unproven and Allen played better than expected. So I'll just explain the optimist POV.

1) A good rookie season isn't about putting up pretty numbers overall, it's about progression and development which going from basically worst to first in the span of a season entails. So I can understand why many (Including me) feel confidence about that span, especially when taking into account how atrocious and banged up the team around him was in those games yet he still dominated. He was missing many o-line starters, his #1 target, and his #1 and 2 RB's. 

2) Darnold beat him in every single passing category with a QB rating 10 points higher. I mean the statistical margin (averaged out) that separated the two was the same as Andrew Luck compared to Andy Dalton. It doesn't take a biased fan to see the difference between them at this point. Personally I see Allen being successful in the league, but unless he becomes a much better passer he won't be a top QB (At least not a sustainable one). He just has fundamental issues that are extremely hard if not impossible to coach out (accuracy). 

 

We’ve had a few laughs together recently, so just know I’m not looking to argue with you, I just want to reply to your post, and then agree to disagree and still respect each other’s opinion. 

Allen improved throughout the year also. I’m not arguing that he needs to become a better passer, of course he does. But Darnold needs to also, unless you truly believe the “3 week Darnold” is the one you’re going to always have, and that the New England game never happened after them.

We can’t keep giving Darnold every possible excuse, (bad coaching, bad OL, no skill guys, young, etc) and use 3 games as an argument for him being a lock to improve, yet dismissing anything Allen did well, obviously run, stay poised and improve throughout the year also.

The bottom line is that their QBR was nearly identical. I think they were 27 & 28. There is nothing to separate them yet except the feelings of those who root for their respective  teams. That’s why I keep saying let’s watch how this plays out.

[Grandy]

7 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

We’ve had a few laughs together recently, so just know I’m not looking to argue with you, I just want to reply to your post, and then agree to disagree and still respect each other’s opinion. 

Allen improved throughout the year also. I’m not arguing that he needs to become a better passer, of course he does. But Darnold needs to also, unless you truly believe the “3 week Darnold” is the one you’re going to always have, and that the New England game never happened after them.

We can’t keep giving Darnold every possible excuse, (bad coaching, bad OL, no skill guys, young, etc) and use 3 games as an argument for him being a lock to improve, yet dismissing anything Allen did well, obviously run, stay poised and improve throughout the year also.

The bottom line is that their QBR was nearly identical. I think they were 27 & 28. There is nothing to separate them yet except the feelings of those who root for their respective  teams. That’s why I keep saying let’s watch how this plays out.

I completely get this and the prove it attitude because well, Darnold still needs to prove himself for more than a few games. The signs are in his favor for becoming great, but of course he still needs to show it over an entire season. Personally I think this season is much more important than the last because we can finally see him with more NFL experience, better talent and coaching. 

Personally I'm a hopeful fan, but not an extreme optimist. 

Do I think he will be in the top 15 peripheral by seasons end? Absolutely.

Do I think he's a top of the league superstar like Mahomes and Luck at this point like some believe? Not yet.

[Jetsfan80]

Josh Allen is a freak athlete with just about the biggest cannon ever. However his passing skills are poor at best. To me he is a slightly worse Cam Newton. 
His legs will help him win games consistently in his career, but when the day comes that he can't use those legs anymore he'll have needed to progress significantly as a passer to keep up. 

Allen wishes he was as accurate as Cam Newton.

[Jetsfan80]

But that’s where you  “anti Allen” guys lose me.

You feel secure about Darnold because of a 3 game stretch in an otherwise bad rookie season. Almost everyone here thinks he’ll take the next step, but the guy everyone knew had the best arm, and a lot thought had the biggest upside even though he was the most raw, has no chance of improving? He basically had the same season as Sam. Yet our guy will go on to a 15 year HOF career, and Allen is just a scatter armed injury waiting to happen.

i just don’t get it....

 

I’m not “secure” about Darnold. That’s what you’re missing. I merely like our chances with him better than Allen or Rosen. All 3 could end up busts. Or Rosen could be good and Darnold busts. That’s possible too.

 

But I am “secure” in Allen never correcting his accuracy issues. Because really no QB who comes into the league with accuracy concerns like him has ever “fixed” it over the course of his career.

 

Freak athlete? Sure. But without accuracy he can’t succeed in this league.

[Dunnie]

Looking forward to the preseason. I wanna see Sam shine while Allen and Rosen continue to struggle. 

Am I the only guy who is terrified of Rosen in Miami ? I watched every game the guy ayed his senior year ... I have no idea what went down Arizona ... The guys throws an incredible ball.

 

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

 

 

[14 in Green]

44 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Allen wishes he was as accurate as Cam Newton.

 

You’re straying again.... ?

[14 in Green]

22 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

Am I the only guy who is terrified of Rosen in Miami ? I watched every game the guy ayed his senior year ... I have no idea what went down Arizona ... The guys throws an incredible ball.

 

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

 

 

No you’re not the only one.

It’s just that allowing for the possibility of more then one QB from the class of 18 might succeed is generally frowned upon here. More then half this board is in denial that Mayfield’s rookie season ever happened.

[Jetsfan80]

11 hours ago, 14 in Green said:

It’s just that allowing for the possibility of more then one QB from the class of 18 might succeed is generally frowned upon here. More then half this board is in denial that Mayfield’s rookie season ever happened. 

Not really, they're just tired of the excessive number of Browns threads on a Jets message board. 

Mayfield is really good.  But he could be a ticking time bomb too. 

[HelenOfTroy]

I heard glowing things about Josh Allen a full year before he came out in the draft, from Jordan Palmers’ FIL - told us to watch this kid, most of us had no idea who he was, but Jordan was training him, and he raved about the kid’s potential as an NFL QB....Sam raves about him and his skill set.

I’ll take their word for it.  

 

[Jetsfan80]

12 minutes ago, HelenOfTroy said:

I heard glowing things about Josh Allen a full year before he came out in the draft, from Jordan Palmers’ FIL - told us to watch this kid, most of us had no idea who he was, but Jordan was training him, and he raved about the kid’s potential as an NFL QB....Sam raves about him and his skill set.

I’ll take their word for it.   

 

He's an athletic freak who used that talent to get taken # 7 overall.  That's nothing to sneeze at.  But just because a lot of people rave about him doesn't mean he'll be successful.  A lot of people raved about Jeff George and JaMarcus Russell because of their incredible arms.  And plenty of running QB's have been raved about too.  But you still need to be an accurate passer in this league.  He completed just 56 % of his throws in college.  He completed just 52.8 % of his throws his rookie season.  It's a problem.  And one that won't go away for him as long as he's a pro QB.  The question is whether his ability to launch the ball and his ability to tuck and run it will make up for his lack of skills in that area. 

The Cam Newton comparison makes some sense.  But even he has a career completion % of 59.7.  At Auburn he completed 66 % of his throws, far better than Allen's best year at Wyoming.  And despite Newton's tremendous skillset, 2 of his last 3 seasons the Panthers have finished below .500.  Allen will need to be even MORE special than Cam Newton at the deep ball and running it if he's going to be a success in this league, given that he likely isn't going to be as accurate a passer as even Cam. 

[slats]

15 hours ago, 14 in Green said:

Allen improved throughout the year also. I’m not arguing that he needs to become a better passer, of course he does. But Darnold needs to also, unless you truly believe the “3 week Darnold” is the one you’re going to always have, and that the New England game never happened after them.

We can’t keep giving Darnold every possible excuse, (bad coaching, bad OL, no skill guys, young, etc) and use 3 games as an argument for him being a lock to improve, yet dismissing anything Allen did well, obviously run, stay poised and improve throughout the year also.

The bottom line is that their QBR was nearly identical. I think they were 27 & 28. There is nothing to separate them yet except the feelings of those who root for their respective  teams. That’s why I keep saying let’s watch how this plays out.

Allen didn't improve as a passer over the course of the year. He threw five interceptions in his last four games. He only completed more than 50% of his passes once in those four games. Where he showed dramatic improvement was with running the football. He played in six games to open the season and rushed for 155 yards before he got hurt. He came back and played in six more games where he rushed for 476 yards. ESPN's proprietary, secret sauce QBR obviously puts some weight on rushing ability because that's the only thing Josh Allen did better than Sam Darnold last year. Sam was better in virtually every single passing category, and did show demonstrable improvement at the end of the year. 

I'm not saying that Allen can't improve, but I'm definitely saying that despite being a year older than Sam, he has a much longer way to go. 

[slats]

13 hours ago, Dunnie said:

Am I the only guy who is terrified of Rosen in Miami ? I watched every game the guy ayed his senior year ... I have no idea what went down Arizona ... The guys throws an incredible ball.

Is he even going to see the field? Word was that Fitzpatrick was way ahead of him in the OTAs. Fish have a new head coach, and that new head coach is going to be looking to install a winning program and win games. Will he jeopardize that by playing the QB who's losing the QB competition? I don't know. It might take until the fish are mathematically out of it before he gets in. And that's probably what's best for his development after a very rough rookie year. No reason to get thrown to the wolves by a second bad team in two years. 

Still think he's no lock to be on that team beyond 2019. It's a no brainer to kick the tires on a young, former top ten pick QB for a second rounder, but that's also not a complete commitment. If they have a high pick next year, they could easily opt to take a QB then. 

[14 in Green]

1 hour ago, slats said:

Is he even going to see the field? Word was that Fitzpatrick was way ahead of him in the OTAs. Fish have a new head coach, and that new head coach is going to be looking to install a winning program and win games. Will he jeopardize that by playing the QB who's losing the QB competition? I don't know. It might take until the fish are mathematically out of it before he gets in. And that's probably what's best for his development after a very rough rookie year. No reason to get thrown to the wolves by a second bad team in two years. 

Still think he's no lock to be on that team beyond 2019. It's a no brainer to kick the tires on a young, former top ten pick QB for a second rounder, but that's also not a complete commitment. If they have a high pick next year, they could easily opt to take a QB then. 

All good points here.

Except I don’t/can’t see them giving up on Rosen after only one year and losing a 2nd round pick. If they do, that will tell us just about all we need to know about Mr. Rosen....

[slats]

17 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

All good points here.

Except I don’t/can’t see them giving up on Rosen after only one year and losing a 2nd round pick. If they do, that will tell us just about all we need to know about Mr. Rosen....

If they like a QB in next year's draft better than they like Rosen, I'd imagine that they'd try to get a draft pick back for him. Or maybe use him as a chip to move up.