Per B. Coz - Jets are waiving Mims if they can't find last-minute trade

[Jetkwondo]

I have no idea what Mims's problem is in never getting fully involved with the O. I looked back at his combine weakness areas and this jumped out as maybe why beyond his physical dings.

• Competitive nature is lacking in many phases

 

[Jet Nut]

55 minutes ago, Maynard13 said:

Find someone else to make a dumb argument with or are you running out of posters to argue with?

Yeah, that’s what happened here.  I said don’t bring up Kahlil.  
That set you off enough to argue the simple point against arguing.

 

[Maynard13]

36 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Yeah, that’s what happened here.  I said don’t bring up Kahlil.  
That set you off enough to argue the simple point against arguing.

 

WTF are you off your meds? I never brought him up - YOU DID.  But now that YOU mention him and that ill advised move, yeah it was a dumb, desperate idea. Bringing retired players off the scrap heap practically never works.  

[Jet Nut]

8 minutes ago, Maynard13 said:

WTF are you off your meds? I never brought him up - YOU DID.  But now that YOU mention him and that ill advised move, yeah it was a dumb, desperate idea. Bringing retired players off the scrap heap practically never works.  

I was said don’t bring him up because all who claim his FA acquisitions have been bad start off with Kahlil.  They then move to the K fiasco in his first season.  I’ve heard it a hundred times.  
You’re still calling it dumb like it changed a thing, like there were so many alternatives, like JD didn’t know it was a shot in the dark, yes a desperate move because of Macc.  Pretty simple, have no idea where you see an argument

[Warfish]

13 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Didn’t get separation and wasn’t thrown the ball?  Couldn’t run crisp routes and didn’t see the ball?

Moore's separation and routes were fine.  The QB simply sucked horribly with some of the worst field vision I've ever seen at the NFL level, and never saw him when he was open, and generally focused on one guy (Davis first, later Wilson).  Compounded because the O-Co had no idea how to design an effective offense around, and to get the most out of, the talent he had.

I appreciate many homer fans will always shill for people still on the roster over guys playing for another team, because that's what homer shills do, but the 'argument' that Moore suddenly sucked as a WR and couldn't run basic routes or put in basic effort is a complete and total fabrication. 

Zach sucked, and so did MLF for the most part.  One is already gone, and the other will be soon enough when his not-gonna-get-option-year'd contract here comes to an end. 

We'll see if Moore proves he was or wasn't also the problem soon enough up in Cleveland.

13 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

 The QB struggled with the passing game in general so he felt he need to take a shlt fit and put himself above his teammates?

To be very clear, Moore taking it public was 100% wrong.  

His underlying complaint/issue that Zach Wilson absolutely sucked and MLF wasn't very good, both 100% valid.

13 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

 Mims too, he couldn’t stay on the field so he should have been great differently than he was treated?  Because players who don’t or can’t learn plays, stop getting called for moronic penalties killing droves and miss most games need to be coddled.

Yes, the O-Co should have been much more flexible, and tried to get something out of an admittedly top-end physical talent, and not try to force that talent to fit his specific little box of what a WR "needed to be" to play for him. I'm partial to the "no coddling" argument, but you also don't completely waste high-end draft assets just to make a point about coddling.

As noted, I am and never was a Mims fan, nor a Mims defender in any way.  As noted, he's likely too dumb, lazy or both to ever succeed at the NFL level.  But MLF did very little to even try to get something out of this 2nd round pick.  To find a package or a small sub-set of plays where he could use his skills to help the team.  

Again, as I say often, multiple things can be true at once.  Mims is bad.  MLF was also bad.  Both true.

13 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

 Now we’ve replicated the Packers because we’re counting on Lazard to contribute as the #2 or 3 WR?  

I don't really need to re-state something I said very clearly and unambiguously.  What I said is what I mean.

[Jet Nut]

1 minute ago, Warfish said:

Moore's separation and routes were fine.  The QB simply sucked horribly with some of the worst field vision I've ever seen at the NFL level, and never saw him when he was open, and generally focused on one guy (Davis first, later Wilson).  Compounded because the O-Co had no idea how to design an effective offense around, and to get the most out of, the talent he had.

I appreciate many homer fans will always shill for people still on the roster over guys playing for another team, because that's what homer shills do, but the 'argument' that Moore suddenly sucked as a WR and couldn't run basic routes or put in basic effort is a complete and total fabrication. 

Zach sucked, and so did MLF for the most part.  One is already gone, and the other will be soon enough when his not-gonna-get-option-year'd contract here comes to an end. 

We'll see if Moore proves he was or wasn't also the problem soon enough up in Cleveland.

Moore did not get separation and does not run sharp routes.  That’s just not true.  But no one is a shill for realizing that anymore than it says he sucks.  He’s just not what you think he is.  Anyway all pointless he was jettisoned to Cleveland because he was a self centered, it’s all about me, POS teammate who then went after the CS.  Getting dumped is on him

4 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Yes, the O-Co should have been much more flexible, and tried to get something out of an admittedly top-end physical talent, and not try to force that talent to fit his specific little box of what a WR "needed to be" to play for him. I'm partial to the "no coddling" argument, but you also don't completely waste high-end draft assets just to make a point about coddling.

As noted, I am and never was a Mims fan, nor a Mims defender in any way.  As noted, he's likely too dumb, lazy or both to ever succeed at the NFL level.  But MLF did very little to even try to get something out of this 2nd round pick.  To find a package or a small sub-set of plays where he could use his skills to help the team.  

Again, as I say often, multiple things can be true at once.  Mims is bad.  MLF was also bad.  Both true.

They tried to get something out of him.  Why they said he can’t seem to grasp the other WR positions.  They were trying, it just didn’t work out in practices and if you’re unable to get plays down, don’t show you can contribute on Sundays you don’t play more than Mims played.  
 

 

[#27TheDominator]

26 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Moore's separation and routes were fine.  The QB simply sucked horribly with some of the worst field vision I've ever seen at the NFL level, and never saw him when he was open, and generally focused on one guy (Davis first, later Wilson).  Compounded because the O-Co had no idea how to design an effective offense around, and to get the most out of, the talent he had.

I appreciate many homer fans will always shill for people still on the roster over guys playing for another team, because that's what homer shills do, but the 'argument' that Moore suddenly sucked as a WR and couldn't run basic routes or put in basic effort is a complete and total fabrication. 

Zach sucked, and so did MLF for the most part.  One is already gone, and the other will be soon enough when his not-gonna-get-option-year'd contract here comes to an end. 

We'll see if Moore proves he was or wasn't also the problem soon enough up in Cleveland.

To be very clear, Moore taking it public was 100% wrong.  

His underlying complaint/issue that Zach Wilson absolutely sucked and MLF wasn't very good, both 100% valid.

Yes, the O-Co should have been much more flexible, and tried to get something out of an admittedly top-end physical talent, and not try to force that talent to fit his specific little box of what a WR "needed to be" to play for him. I'm partial to the "no coddling" argument, but you also don't completely waste high-end draft assets just to make a point about coddling.

As noted, I am and never was a Mims fan, nor a Mims defender in any way.  As noted, he's likely too dumb, lazy or both to ever succeed at the NFL level.  But MLF did very little to even try to get something out of this 2nd round pick.  To find a package or a small sub-set of plays where he could use his skills to help the team.  

Again, as I say often, multiple things can be true at once.  Mims is bad.  MLF was also bad.  Both true.

I don't really need to re-state something I said very clearly and unambiguously.  What I said is what I mean.

I don't know what to make of Moore's route running and separation.  I read so much about these nerds watching tape of every play saying he was great and others saying that he blew.  I do know that the piece I read praising the pick and ranting about his "crisp routes" and "ability to create separation" included this gem I posted elsewhere:

Quote

He has a strong mental acuity to understand intricate defensive schemes then defeat them. He is a player with a strong will. He fights through adversity and always come to play and plays hard. He played on a team with a horrific defense and a average at best QB but never wavered in his desire to play his hardest. He was a team leader who was admired by his teammates while always encouraging them no matter the situation. He is a player with great character and would be a strong building block for any team looking to start anew. Moore will be a strong, positive voice in the locker room and a leader on the field. He should be the favorite receiver of a new QB with his ability to separate and get open quickly with the ability to make a splash play.

A Look at Jets WR Elijah Moore A dynamic receiver with great character

No matter what you think about Elijah Moore, that is obviously a total crock of sh*t.  

Regarding Mims, he would not do what they wanted.  I m not sure if it was a can't do it, or won't do it.  I don't see how anybody expected him to get on with this offense.  There was a piece out yesterday discussing how Rodgers has this elaborate hand signaling system.  Mims didn't even bother to show up to the mini-camp and his past has indicated that he was going to give little to no effort to learn this sh*t.  Why bother with him?  Randall Cobb has produced more than him over each of the last three years.  He isn't a prima donna and has a rapport with the QB.  Mims was just going to be a distraction.  I get regretting the missed opportunity, but the guy seems to need way more coddling than it is worth. 

[Warfish]

35 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I don't know what to make of Moore's route running and separation.  I read so much about these nerds watching tape of every play saying he was great and others saying that he blew.  I do know that the piece I read praising the pick and ranting about his "crisp routes" and "ability to create separation" included this gem I posted elsewhere:

No matter what you think about Elijah Moore, that is obviously a total crock of sh*t.  

We fans will never know all the behind the scenes stuff, the interpersonal conflict stuff.  It's hard to see that glowing personality stuff given how Moore handled things, no doubt, but I'll also say we don't know the conversations and blame and favoritism and such that (may have) happened in the locker room either.  Again, multiple things can be true, Moore handled it all selfishly and unprofessionally, and all but forced his trade. 

But MLF might have deserved it too, from several accounts not handling Moore well at all.  And Zach was pure trash (on the field) and frankly didn't seem well liked in the locker room either (homers and Zach fans will debate that, but the way the team dumped him and the locker room rallied around White speaks volumes IMO) and didn't seem too keen on taking ownership of problem himself at that point.

I think it'll be very interesting (and informative) to follow Moore this year in Cleveland vs. Lazard here in NY.

[Matt39]

would really like to have seen what exactly the Jets were doing to prep for the 2020 draft. My goodness

[Sperm Edwards]

On 7/20/2023 at 12:05 PM, Warfish said:

We fans will never know all the behind the scenes stuff, the interpersonal conflict stuff.  It's hard to see that glowing personality stuff given how Moore handled things, no doubt, but I'll also say we don't know the conversations and blame and favoritism and such that (may have) happened in the locker room either.  Again, multiple things can be true, Moore handled it all selfishly and unprofessionally, and all but forced his trade. 

But MLF might have deserved it too, from several accounts not handling Moore well at all.  And Zach was pure trash (on the field) and frankly didn't seem well liked in the locker room either (homers and Zach fans will debate that, but the way the team dumped him and the locker room rallied around White speaks volumes IMO) and didn't seem too keen on taking ownership of problem himself at that point.

I think it'll be very interesting (and informative) to follow Moore this year in Cleveland vs. Lazard here in NY.

This thread was just bumped but am reading this again & was going to reply at the time but didn’t.

MLF was not getting fired for doing a bad job, or anyway under normal circumstances Saleh was never going to fire him because of personal connections.

The only reason MLF was coerced to resign was because the Jets already had a plan in place to bring in Hackett with the goal of then hopefully bringing in Rodgers. If Rodgers wasn’t a worst kept secret available already since January, MLF wasn’t going to get fired. The optics was too terrible for the brothers to have a HOF QB leave one to play with another, and with Hackett fired as Denver’s HC it was an easy swap. They went through the interview charade for OC in January like they went through the charade bringing in Carr so late in February — they didn’t hire Rodgers BFF Hackett for him to draw up an offense for Derek Carr, when Rodgers was very attainable instead that offseason.

Anyway without Rodgers being available, MLF would still be the Jets’ OC, and (as it turns out) after the way Moore handled his displeasure publicly they were going to trade him to the highest bidder with or without MLF returning. I’m sure they did first try to maximize his value to GB as a bigger part of a transaction for Rodgers, but they didn’t bite.

[Claymation]

26 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

This thread was just bumped but am reading this again & was going to reply at the time but didn’t.

MLF was not getting fired for doing a bad job, or anyway under normal circumstances Saleh was never going to fire him because of personal connections.

The only reason MLF was coerced to resign was because the Jets already had a plan in place to bring in Hackett with the goal of then hopefully bringing in Rodgers. If Rodgers wasn’t a worst kept secret available already since January, MLF wasn’t going to get fired. The optics was too terrible for the brothers to have a HOF QB leave one to play with another, and with Hackett fired as Denver’s HC it was an easy swap. They went through the interview charade for OC in January like they went through the charade bringing in Carr so late in February — they didn’t hire Rodgers BFF Hackett for him to draw up an offense for Derek Carr, when Rodgers was very attainable instead that offseason.

Anyway without Rodgers being available, MLF would still be the Jets’ OC, and (as it turns out) after the way Moore handled his displeasure publicly they were going to trade him to the highest bidder with or without MLF returning. I’m sure they did first try to maximize his value to GB as a bigger part of a transaction for Rodgers, but they didn’t bite.

I don't think so, I believe that MiLF was gone no matter what. That was an organizational move led by JD because on what transpired on the field. Including the failure to develop the young offensive players, the lack of progress of Zach and the scoring zero TDs in the midst of a playoff push. The "it's me not you break up" was to ease the blow. 

There were 3 attributes that attracted the Jets to Hackett: Familiarity with working with Saleh; the ability to get the most out of a QB ie. Orton and Bortles; and Rodgers. 

[Sperm Edwards]

26 minutes ago, Claymation said:

I don't think so, I believe that MiLF was gone no matter what. That was an organizational move led by JD because on what transpired on the field. Including the failure to develop the young offensive players, the lack of progress of Zach and the scoring zero TDs in the midst of a playoff push. The "it's me not you break up" was to ease the blow. 

There were 3 attributes that attracted the Jets to Hackett: Familiarity with working with Saleh; the ability to get the most out of a QB ie. Orton and Bortles; and Rodgers. 

The head coach picks his own coordinators/coaches, not the GM.

The only way that gets done is if there's a threat, of sorts, from Douglas to Saleh: "Either Mike goes or you and Mike both go." It's literally Saleh's best friend's brother, whom he knew & hand-picked. Plus it's not like they then went to some huge name OC to replace MLF either, seeing how Hackett didn't call plays in GB and had just gotten fired before the end of his first season in Denver.

Plus MLF being allowed to "resign" instead of getting fired fits with the narrative of:

Hey, Mike it's not you. We know in a lot of ways you got a raw deal here. Anyway we want Aaron Rodgers to replace Zach - can you blame us? - and the best shot of that, including cooperation and desire from Rodgers, means hiring his BFF as OC rather than moving Rodgers from your brother - under whom you know he's been miserable - to you. Resign & we'll save you the humiliation of getting fired, plus your brother's old HC has an opening for an OC who doesn't call plays. His guys get better jobs after a year or two there.

Absent Rodgers being in play, I really don't think MLF is fired just because Zach Wilson sucked. On top of the Zach-elephant in the room, Saleh & Douglas are fully aware they had a preposterous amount of injuries on offense as well: basically all the WRs in 2021 (when they had no TEs), and then 3/5 of the OL plus Breece in 2022, and both times White started to show something, he got injured himself. That's all on top of the GM not giving LaFleur a serious alternative to starting Wilson right away (the QB room that summer had 3 QBs who'd collectively taken zero NFL snaps). There's little to suggest that Douglas blamed MLF for all of this, so badly that he overruled his HC.

There's every likelihood - if Rodgers wasn't in play - they keep MLF and sign Garoppolo, with whom there'd be a faster/easier transition (if he passed a physical); the QB being known well to OC and HC alike. Trading for Rodgers presented a far better opportunity to that.

The Jets were going to go hard after Rodgers, and the optics of doing so with MLF as the OC was never going to fly on either end. Not with the Packers trading a HOF QB from their current HC to his brother, and not from Rodgers who may have viewed that "opportunity" with the Jets as jumping out of the frying pan into the fire.

[Claymation]

9 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

The head coach picks his own coordinators/coaches, not the GM.

The only way that gets done is if there's a threat, of sorts, from Douglas to Saleh: "Either Mike goes or you and Mike both go." It's literally Saleh's best friend's brother, whom he knew & hand-picked. Plus it's not like they then went to some huge name OC to replace MLF either, seeing how Hackett didn't call plays in GB and had just gotten fired before the end of his first season in Denver.

Plus MLF being allowed to "resign" instead of getting fired fits with the narrative of:

Hey, Mike it's not you. We know in a lot of ways you got a raw deal here. Anyway we want Aaron Rodgers to replace Zach - can you blame us? - and the best shot of that, including cooperation and desire from Rodgers, means hiring his BFF as OC rather than moving Rodgers from your brother - under whom you know he's been miserable - to you. Resign & we'll save you the humiliation of getting fired, plus your brother's old HC has an opening for an OC who doesn't call plays. His guys get better jobs after a year or two there.

Absent Rodgers being in play, I really don't think MLF is fired just because Zach Wilson sucked. On top of the Zach-elephant in the room, Saleh & Douglas are fully aware they had a preposterous amount of injuries on offense as well: basically all the WRs in 2021 (when they had no TEs), and then 3/5 of the OL plus Breece in 2022, and both times White started to show something, he got injured himself. That's all on top of the GM not giving LaFleur a serious alternative to starting Wilson right away (the QB room that summer had 3 QBs who'd collectively taken zero NFL snaps). There's little to suggest that Douglas blamed MLF for all of this, so badly that he overruled his HC.

There's every likelihood - if Rodgers wasn't in play - they keep MLF and sign Garoppolo, with whom there'd be a faster/easier transition (if he passed a physical); the QB being known well to OC and HC alike. Trading for Rodgers presented a far better opportunity to that.

The Jets were going to go hard after Rodgers, and the optics of doing so with MLF as the OC was never going to fly on either end. Not with the Packers trading a HOF QB from their current HC to his brother, and not from Rodgers who may have viewed that "opportunity" with the Jets as jumping out of the frying pan into the fire.

I understand, but ownership forced Saleh's hand through JD (NY Post). I believe getting an established OC was paramount this past off season. Hackett didn't call the plays for GB but it was mostly his offense. And he did call the plays for the Jags and Bills when he was the OC there. Yes, he was an awful HC, but the Jets aren't hiring him to be a HC but to spearhead this offense. He has the support of the QB & the HC, the players (from what I read) like to play for him, plus he is trying to reboot the career of the disappointing 1st rounder that the last offensive staff gave up on. 

MiLF alienated quite a few players, the players that the Jets did get for him had to be a specific type of skillset (Zone blocking lineman & WR that run precise routes) making filling out the roster that much tougher. If Rodgers wasn't in play they would have still parted ways, with another veteran QB with a new OC most likely Hackett.

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, Claymation said:

I understand, but ownership forced Saleh's hand through JD (NY Post). I believe getting an established OC was paramount this past off season. Hackett didn't call the plays for GB but it was mostly his offense. And he did call the plays for the Jags and Bills when he was the OC there. Yes, he was an awful HC, but the Jets aren't hiring him to be a HC but to spearhead this offense. He has the support of the QB & the HC, the players (from what I read) like to play for him, plus he is trying to reboot the career of the disappointing 1st rounder that the last offensive staff gave up on. 

MiLF alienated quite a few players, the players that the Jets did get for him had to be a specific type of skillset (Zone blocking lineman & WR that run precise routes) making filling out the roster that much tougher. If Rodgers wasn't in play they would have still parted ways, with another veteran QB with a new OC most likely Hackett.

No doubt, and we'll never know for sure - I don't expect to ever get a straight/honest answer until 20 years from now maybe when it's old news - and it's just supposition either way. 

It's just that the HC and GM knew perfectly well it'd have been a challenge for a veteran guru OC to succeed under those circumstances, let alone a first-time one installing a new offense with mostly rookie coaches and a bust QB with no other options, on top of all the injuries. I don't think they really blamed MLF for it all. He wasn't out of work for very long either.

Rodgers was available, and the best way to make that happen was to get Hackett in here first. And if Rodgers didn't happen, at least they gave it the best chance possible. That's what I think, and it paid off (so far).