Jets’ draft room video shows Falcons wanted to make another stunning move after drafting Michael Penix

[doitny]

i wouldnt be screaming about a guy hurt on Jan 7 and worried he would not be ready 9 months later. 

and even if i did agree with you, Hall would be pissed if he didnt get a chance to break 1,000 yds and Saleh knows this. 

you do want him to resign here right> GW too? you cannot deny them personal records. they would hate this team for that. 

 

33 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

So after 10 carries, if Breece is averaging 2.4 yards or less then he should get 0 carries the rest of the game?  That's what you're looking for us to do next season?

how many times do you want to run a play and get 2.4 yards? how many times do you watch the game and say " why are we doing that? it hasnt worked all day, try something else"

44 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

How does it make sense to run him 37 times when you're already eliminated?

because they want to win the game. Saleh was not guaranteed to come back this year. and this was a game everyone including Woody wanted.

at Halftime it was 6-3 and Hall had 17 carries and 78 yds. he was around 100 yds short of 1,000. 

thats another thing, Woody wanted this game. bench

your best player at 6-3 and lose and Saleh is most likely fired.

 

48 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

And this with a RB who was coming off an ACL injury. 

Hall tear his ACL on Oct 23, 2022. he was ready and played week 1 in 2023. and he was active on Aug 15. thats 10 months. he would have been ready to play next year. 

59 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

If Breece had gotten hurt, you don't think you'd be screaming about this?  

not on the last game of the year.

this is not Madden. there are so many factors at play here. what Hall wants matters and he wanted that milestone. what Woody wants matters and he wanted to finally snap that streak. what Saleh wants matters and his job was on the line.

[Jet Nut]

11 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Would anyone have been upset if Breece was left on the bench the final week of the year to give Izzy a chance to play?  It wouldn't have been looked at as a tank move.  It would've been a "that makes complete sense" move.

And even if they wanted to play Breece, why did he get 37 freaking carries?!  His next highest total for the entire season was 22.

Yeah.  Breece and every player in the locker room who would know they were trying to lose on purpose and would have never looked at the CS the same way.  Don’t you wonder why you don’t see it happen, every team can use a move up in the draft, you see others trying lose?

[TuscanyTile2]

9 hours ago, doitny said:

i wouldnt be screaming about a guy hurt on Jan 7 and worried he would not be ready 9 months later. 

and even if i did agree with you, Hall would be pissed if he didnt get a chance to break 1,000 yds and Saleh knows this. 

you do want him to resign here right> GW too? you cannot deny them personal records. they would hate this team for that. 

 

how many times do you want to run a play and get 2.4 yards? how many times do you watch the game and say " why are we doing that? it hasnt worked all day, try something else"

because they want to win the game. Saleh was not guaranteed to come back this year. and this was a game everyone including Woody wanted.

at Halftime it was 6-3 and Hall had 17 carries and 78 yds. he was around 100 yds short of 1,000. 

thats another thing, Woody wanted this game. bench

your best player at 6-3 and lose and Saleh is most likely fired.

 

Hall tear his ACL on Oct 23, 2022. he was ready and played week 1 in 2023. and he was active on Aug 15. thats 10 months. he would have been ready to play next year. 

not on the last game of the year.

this is not Madden. there are so many factors at play here. what Hall wants matters and he wanted that milestone. what Woody wants matters and he wanted to finally snap that streak. what Saleh wants matters and his job was on the line.

 

Quote

i wouldnt be screaming about a guy hurt on Jan 7 and worried he would not be ready 9 months later. 

Mike Williams tore his ACL on September 24th of last year (game 3 of the regular season) and there's talk he won't be back for the start of this coming season.  Plus it would be 2 straight years for Breece.  How do you feel about AVT (even though his game is not about speed)?

Quote

and even if i did agree with you, Hall would be pissed if he didnt get a chance to break 1,000 yds and Saleh knows this. 

I wonder how pissed Breece is that our incompetent staff gave him 37 carries and screwed up the math, and he ended up with 994 yards.  And again, if the goal was to get Breece 1000 yards, why was this not managed better?  For example, why did they not give him more carries against the Browns (in a game where he went 13 carries for 84 yards)?

Quote

how many times do you want to run a play and get 2.4 yards? how many times do you watch the game and say " why are we doing that? it hasnt worked all day, try something else"

So 10 carries and then you're cut-off if your averaging <= 2.4 YPC is the rule you think the Jets should follow for next year?

Quote

Saleh was not guaranteed to come back this year. and this was a game everyone including Woody wanted.

Woody already said publicly that he was bringing Saleh back.

Quote

this is not Madden. there are so many factors at play here. what Hall wants matters and he wanted that milestone

If what Hall wants matters then why did they cut him off at 10 carries or less 4 times in the 6 games prior to the team being eliminated?

[TuscanyTile2]

8 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Yeah.  Breece and every player in the locker room who would know they were trying to lose on purpose and would have never looked at the CS the same way.  Don’t you wonder why you don’t see it happen, every team can use a move up in the draft, you see others trying lose?

Okay, how about they give him his season average of carries up to that point?  Prior to that game he had 186 carries for the season in 16 games.  186 / 16 = 11.6.   Let's round that number up to 12.

But instead of giving him 12 carries, they gave him more than triple that number!  (37 carries).

EDIT:

If you take the 1st 4 weeks out of the equation (since he might've been restricted), he had 154 carries in the next 12 games.  That averages out to 12.8.  We'll round up to 13.

37 carries that day was 24 carries more than his average after having the restrictions taken off.  Essentially 2 extra games worth of carries in a meaningless game.

[slats]

13 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

Some might say that it is a clown shoes organization that feeds a running back that is averaging 2.44 ypc, which is what Breece Hall was averaging over that span.  It would have taken him 409 carries to get there at that rate.

Also, in 4/6 of those games, he had more receiving yards than rushing yards. In the fifth, he had one more yard rushing than receiving. It’s not like they stopped using him. What happened was that the Jets’ QBs were awful, everyone knew it, and teams focused on stuffing Breece because he was the whole offense. It’s not rocket surgery. 

[Jet Nut]

27 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Okay, how about they give him his season average of carries up to that point?  Prior to that game he had 186 carries for the season in 16 games.  186 / 16 = 11.6.   Let's round that number up to 12.

But instead of giving him 12 carries, they gave him more than triple that number!  (37 carries).

EDIT:

If you take the 1st 4 weeks out of the equation (since he might've been restricted), he had 154 carries in the next 12 games.  That averages out to 12.8.  We'll round up to 13.

37 carries that day was 24 carries more than his average after having the restrictions taken off.  Essentially 2 extra games worth of carries in a meaningless game.

Dude you’re arguing that a CS should alter carrys and players to lose games on purpose in January because how the draft worked out in April.   What happens if the Pats want to move up too?  0-0 tie?  
Teams don’t tank.  

[#27TheDominator]

29 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Okay, how about they give him his season average of carries up to that point?  Prior to that game he had 186 carries for the season in 16 games.  186 / 16 = 11.6.   Let's round that number up to 12.

But instead of giving him 12 carries, they gave him more than triple that number!  (37 carries).

EDIT:

If you take the 1st 4 weeks out of the equation (since he might've been restricted), he had 154 carries in the next 12 games.  That averages out to 12.8.  We'll round up to 13.

37 carries that day was 24 carries more than his average after having the restrictions taken off.  Essentially 2 extra games worth of carries in a meaningless game.

Just to summarize, your issues are: 

1.  They did not use him enough when he was not having success. 

2.  They used him too much when he was having success.

If Breece was complaining that he was tired and they kept trotting him out there, I would agree.  I am pretty sure that he and the entire team wanted to get him to 1,000.  Sometimes when you do things to make the team happy it pays dividends later and sometimes when you don't you end up with an Elijah Moore situation. 

We all get your point.  I don't agree with it, but I understand it.  Your attempts at using "math" to back it up, are not helping.  You literally complained at the low carries and then want to use those totals to create an "average."  I don't see why we are supposed to be so afraid of our delicate flower being injured or used up on the last day of the season with like 8 months before camp starts to recuperate. 

 

[TuscanyTile2]

13 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Dude you’re arguing that a CS should alter carrys and players to lose games on purpose in January because how the draft worked out in April.   What happens if the Pats want to move up too?  0-0 tie?  
Teams don’t tank.  

Teams do alter carries.  For example, Robert Saleh gave Breece triple his average carries per game in the meaningless season finale against the Patriots.  Actually it was "triple plus one"

As far as "teams don't tank", that's also false.  We have 2 very good recent examples.  The Eagles benching Jalen Hurts for Nate Sudfeld and the Jags starting Mike Glennon over Gardner Minshew to secure Trevor Lawrence.

[Jet Nut]

3 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Teams do alter carries.  For example, Robert Saleh gave Breece triple his average carries per game in the meaningless season finale against the Patriots.  Actually it was "triple plus one"

As far as "teams don't tank", that's also false.  We have 2 very good recent examples.  The Eagles benching Jalen Hurts for Nate Sudfeld and the Jags starting Mike Glennon over Gardner Minshew to secure Trevor Lawrence.

Just not the team you root for, they can’t alter the carrys upwards, just downward.  
And you’re not getting that the locker room would know they’re tanking a Saleh would lose them.  It’s not hard to understand.  As I said watch that weeks 1JD, to a man they were talking about go out with a win.  Players want to win.  They’re not fans playing Monday morning QB 4 months later.  You’re not understanding the mindset 

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

12 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

Would’ve liked to see footage of us trying to trade up more. I think it was clear we wanted odunze. Seemed no team wanted to trade with us. And then CHI drafted him. 

I mean, they're not gonna show that Olu was essentially their 3rd choice. They tried for Nabers first, then tried for Odunze.  Is what it is. 

[TuscanyTile2]

10 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Just to summarize, your issues are: 

1.  They did not use him enough when he was not having success. 

2.  They used him too much when he was having success.

If Breece was complaining that he was tired and they kept trotting him out there, I would agree.  I am pretty sure that he and the entire team wanted to get him to 1,000.  Sometimes when you do things to make the team happy it pays dividends later and sometimes when you don't you end up with an Elijah Moore situation. 

We all get your point.  I don't agree with it, but I understand it.  Your attempts at using "math" to back it up, are not helping.  You literally complained at the low carries and then want to use those totals to create an "average."  I don't see why we are supposed to be so afraid of our delicate flower being injured or used up on the last day of the season with like 8 months before camp starts to recuperate. 

 

Quote

1.  They did not use him enough when he was not having success. 

2.  They used him too much when he was having success.

My complaint is that we didn't use him enough when we still were mathematically alive for the playoffs and then used him like a bell cow for 2 of the 3 games after we were eliminated.

 

Quote

If Breece was complaining that he was tired and they kept trotting him out there, I would agree.  I am pretty sure that he and the entire team wanted to get him to 1,000.  Sometimes when you do things to make the team happy it pays dividends later and sometimes when you don't you end up with an Elijah Moore situation. 

If the goal was to get him to 1000, why did they only suddenly realize this in game 17?  He had 13 carries for 84 yards in game 16.  They couldn't have divided the carries up more equally?  And how upset is Breece going to be at the utter morons on our staff that he ran the ball 37 times and they screwed up and he only got to 994 yards?  What does it say about these morons if they can't even get the little things right?!  (though the mathematician who screwed up might not be a Saleh hire.  It probably wasn't).

Ultimately though, I don't want to burn out Breece with a 37 carry game even if he's off all offseason anyway.  I think RBs have a limited number of mileage they can put on before they start to slow down.  The decision to burn Breece out that day was ridiculous, if you ask me.  It would've been one thing if he had a contract incentive, btw.  Then I could see a HC not wanting to lose favor with a player.  But that was not the case here.

Quote

I don't see why we are supposed to be so afraid of our delicate flower being injured or used up on the last day of the season with like 8 months before camp starts to recuperate. 

Again, Mike Williams was injured last September but might not be ready for the start of this coming season.  Breece is probably the most dangerous of our weapinzz on offense.

[TuscanyTile2]

10 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Just not the team you root for, they can’t alter the carrys upwards, just downward.  
And you’re not getting that the locker room would know they’re tanking a Saleh would lose them.  It’s not hard to understand.  As I said watch that weeks 1JD, to a man they were talking about go out with a win.  Players want to win.  They’re not fans playing Monday morning QB 4 months later.  You’re not understanding the mindset 

So let them try to win with Breece getting 12-13 carries then.  Nobody could possibly argue that the Jets were tanking if Breece got his season average carries.

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

1 minute ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

 

My complaint is that we didn't use him enough when we still were mathematically alive for the playoffs and then used him like a bell cow for 2 of the 3 games after we were eliminated.

 

If the goal was to get him to 1000, why did they only suddenly realize this in game 17?  He had 13 carries for 84 yards in game 16.  They couldn't have divided the carries up more equally?  And how upset is Breece going to be at the utter morons on our staff that he ran the ball 37 times and they screwed up and he only got to 994 yards?  What does it say about these morons if they can't even get the little things right?!  (though the mathematician who screwed up might not be a Saleh hire.  It probably wasn't).

Ultimately though, I don't want to burn out Breece with a 37 carry game even if he's off all offseason anyway.  I think RBs have a limited number of mileage they can put on before they start to slow down.  The decision to burn Breece out that day was ridiculous, if you ask me.  It would've been one thing if he had a contract incentive, btw.  Then I could see a HC not wanting to lose favor with a player.  But that was not the case here.

Again, Mike Williams was injured last September but might not be ready for the start of this coming season.  Breece is probably the most dangerous of our weapinzz on offense.

How do you know it's not an incentive? 

[TuscanyTile2]

20 minutes ago, SomebodytoAnybody47 said:

How do you know it's not an incentive? 

https://larrybrownsports.com/football/jets-breece-hall-statistics-math-mistake

The good news is that unlike some other players, there was no contractual bonus riding on Hall’s achievement or lack thereof. Things would have been a lot more awkward otherwise.

[Jet Nut]

19 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

So let them try to win with Breece getting 12-13 carries then.  Nobody could possibly argue that the Jets were tanking if Breece got his season average carries.

You’re just not getting any of the reasons why they wouldn’t have and are just fixated with how the draft played out after the fact.  
Jets were winning, they were using Breece the way you use your run game with a lead. 

[TuscanyTile2]

4 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

You’re just not getting any of the reasons why they wouldn’t have and are just fixated with how the draft played out after the fact.  
Jets were winning, they were using Breece the way you use your run game with a lead. 

They had other RBs.  They didn't need to give Breece more than triple his average carries for the season.

[Jet Nut]

7 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

They had other RBs.  They didn't need to give Breece more than triple his average carries for the season.

yeah, they did.  It’s how they won.  Again, 4 months after the fact you’re moaning that wins were meaningless, actually one win.  Not the other 6.  
You don’t understand how teams, CSs and players think.  

 

[TuscanyTile2]

4 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

yeah, they did.  It’s how they won.  Again, 4 months after the fact you’re moaning that wins were meaningless, actually one win.  Not the other 6.  
You don’t understand how teams, CSs and players think.

I understand how our CS thinks. 

When we weren't eliminated from the playoffs, Breece had 153 carries in 14 games (10.9 carries per game).

If we change the above to look at only week 5 through week 14 (where we weren't eliminated from the playoffs and Breece's restrictions were off), Breece had 121 carries in 10 games (12.1 carries per game).

When we were officially eliminated from the playoffs, Breece had 70 carries in 3 games (23.3 carries per game).

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Teams do alter carries.  For example, Robert Saleh gave Breece triple his average carries per game in the meaningless season finale against the Patriots.  Actually it was "triple plus one"

As far as "teams don't tank", that's also false.  We have 2 very good recent examples.  The Eagles benching Jalen Hurts for Nate Sudfeld and the Jags starting Mike Glennon over Gardner Minshew to secure Trevor Lawrence.

Jags sat the injured QB, Jets fans screamed foul after beating the Rams.  
Pederson sat Hurts, was trashed everywhere for what he did and lost his job.  

[Jet Nut]

Just now, TuscanyTile2 said:

I understand how our CS thinks. 

When we weren't eliminated from the playoffs, Breece had 153 carries in 14 games (10.9 carries per game).

If we change the above to look at only week 5 through week 14 (where we weren't eliminated from the playoffs and Breece's restrictions were off), Breece had 121 carries in 10 games (12.1 carries per game).

When we were officially eliminated from the playoffs, Breece had 70 carries in 3 games (23.3 carries per game).

No, you continue to prove you don’t know how CSs work if you wanted them to tank.  

[TuscanyTile2]

1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

Jags sat the injured QB, Jets fans screamed foul after beating the Rams.  
Pederson sat Hurts, was trashed everywhere for what he did and lost his job.  

I don't care about "trashed".  Did it happen or did it not happen?

[TuscanyTile2]

2 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

No, you continue to prove you don’t know how CSs work if you wanted them to tank.  

Giving Breece his average number of carries per game over the whole season (12-13) instead of the 37 they gave him would be considered "tanking"?  What was it considered during the weeks we were still alive for the postseason then?

[Jet Nut]

2 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I don't care about "trashed".  Did it happen or did it not happen?

did you not read what I wrote? 
Yes.  And of course you don’t care.  The guy lost his job and you think others should throw games.

Enough already, you’ll never get me to think that throwing games is a plan for teams to follow.  

 

[TuscanyTile2]

1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

did you not read what I wrote? 
Yes.  And of course you don’t care.  The guy lost his job and you think others should throw games.

Would it be considered "tanking" to give Breece his season average in carries (12-13) instead of the 37 carries they did give him?

[Jet Nut]

1 minute ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Would it be considered "tanking" to give Breece his season average in carries (12-13) instead of the 37 carries they did give him?

Yes, are you this lost in your plan to get what you hope is a better player at any cost or fallout

[TuscanyTile2]

1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

Yes, are you this lost in your plan to get what you hope is a better player at any cost or fallout

So using the best of your weapinzz in the 3 games where we were eliminated is more important than the 14 games when we still had a chance for the playoffs.  Got it!

I hope Saleh runs him into the ground in preseason next year too!

[bla bla bla]

On 5/1/2024 at 7:52 PM, TuscanyTile2 said:

Our genius of a HC ran Breece Hall into the ground (37 carries, by far his most) the final week of the season so we could "enjoy this win all offseason!"  He also ran Breece 20 times in a meaningless against the Commies, which was his 3rd most carries of the year. 

I was so mad we won that Commanders game. Our team absolutely collapsed and got save by Greg the Leg.

Would have loved to trade out of #2 or #5

[Jet Nut]

7 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

So using the best of your weapinzz in the 3 games where we were eliminated is more important than the 14 games when we still had a chance for the playoffs.  Got it!

I hope Saleh runs him into the ground in preseason next year too!

Have no idea what you’re arguing.  This is about tanking.  
You hope Saleh runs him into the ground this preseason?  Well that would be stupid and doesn’t change a think.  Actually holding his carrys down in week 18 because that would be Saleh running him down is just as silly a comment.  

[TuscanyTile2]

Just now, Jet Nut said:

Have no idea what you’re arguing.  This is about tanking.  
You hope Saleh runs him into the ground this preseason?  Well that would be stupid and doesn’t change a think.  Actually holding his carrys down in week 18 because that would be Saleh running him down is just as silly a comment.  

Preseason games are just as meaningless as games where we're already eliminated from the playoffs.

[Jet Nut]

5 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Preseason games are just as meaningless as games where we're already eliminated from the playoffs.

Really?   
You’re making it worse

[doitny]

8 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Mike Williams tore his ACL on September 24th of last year (game 3 of the regular season) and there's talk he won't be back for the start of this coming season.  Plus it would be 2 straight years for Breece.  How do you feel about AVT (even though his game is not about speed)?

every player is different. Hall has proven he can come back in a year. plus there was talk last year that Hall wouldnt be ready for the start of the year and he was. Williams might be ready.

AVT? if he gets hurt he gets hurt. im not wrapping our players in bubble wrap because im afraid of injuries. every team gets them. you cant stop injuries.

he gets hurt again then we know he is injury prone, and we move on at the end of the year. unless you want to play him 50% of the snaps to try to save his season?

9 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I wonder how pissed Breece is that our incompetent staff gave him 37 carries and screwed up the math, and he ended up with 994 yards.  And again, if the goal was to get Breece 1000 yards, why was this not managed better?  For example, why did they not give him more carries against the Browns (in a game where he went 13 carries for 84 yards)?

im sure he was not happy with that, but that wasnt Salehs fault. limiting his carries would have been.

vs Cleveland we were down 20-7 at the end of the 1st and 34-17 at the half. your not going to run it much being down that much by the half.

Hall had 732 yds heading into the Browns game. nobody was thinking 1000 yds for a RB with 2 games to go. going into the NE game he had 816. again thats alot of yards and i doubt the plan was to get him to 1,000. but now at the half he was only 108 yds away. and we both forgot it was a snow game. nobody was throwing it.

and we know now how they feel about Izzy otherwise they wouldnt have drafted 2 RBs to replace him.

9 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

So 10 carries and then you're cut-off if your averaging <= 2.4 YPC is the rule you think the Jets should follow for next year?

i would give another carry or 2 but you wanna keep starting 2nd and long because he just doesnt have it this game? you know there are some teams who are very good against the run.? you just cant run on them.

i bet you would be the 1st to complain and start a thread about how much Salah and Hackett suck because they kept running the ball and getting nothing and not trying to pass it more.

9 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Woody already said publicly that he was bringing Saleh back.

the same guy who fired Mac in June. and dont say it was Chris, nothing happens to the Jets without Woodys ok. 

i truly believe that if Salah blew a 6-3 halftime lead to our most hated rivals and the guy who has been taking shots at us for 2 decades and break a 14 game losing streak and give him a loss in his final game as a Patriot and possibly ever, all because he benched one of our best players who was having a good then great game. yeah i think Woody would have been so mad he would have fired him.

9 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

If what Hall wants matters then why did they cut him off at 10 carries or less 4 times in the 6 games prior to the team being eliminated?

what dont you get? it was the last game of the year and he was in reach of a milestone. but if you want to play this game i will play with you.

week 10 @ Buffalo. L 32-6. Hall 10-23yds    2.30 ypc

week 11 Miami L 34-13. Hall 7-25     3.57 ypc

week 12 Atlanta L 13-8. Hall 13-16     1.23 ypc

Week 13 Houston W 30-6 Hall 10-40   4.00 ypc

Week 14 @Miami L 30-0  Hall 6-12       2.00 ypc.

do i need to explain why they didnt rush him more? those YPC are bad except for Houston. 

and after looking at his stats i double down on cutting him off after 12 carries and 2.4 ypc because he is a feast or famine RB. 

in 17 games Hall had averaged under 3 YPC 7 times. add another 3 games under 3.57 ypc. thats 10 out of 17 games he has avg 3.57 yards or less. if he doesnt have it by 10-12 carries he just doesnt have it that game.